Sweet, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by tons of fun
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Sweet, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by tons of fun
Ah that makes sense about the duress, I'll have to give that a try. How many of those effects do you bring in against SFM decks? Seems like it would be nice to snipe equipment as a 2-of, or something. I'm still undecided about the DTT, I need more testing. I like that spot for more of a late game bomb, I considered Tasigar or even a Tombstalker for that spot. When do you bring that Swords in? Creature match ups and reanimator?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lejay
Legacy went well Wed night, ended up going 1-1 drop for personal stuff but the deck felt super solid. First round was against D&T, lost G1 by flooding out and G3 to waste and port even after fetching basics. G2 I won mostly thanks to 3 running wastelands and a deluge that cleared a Mom, Thalia, and Spirit of the Lab.
Round 2 was against jund, and man were these fun games. Won both G1/G2 but they were both really long and grindy. In the end, they can't compete with a resolved visions or two. P-fire was the scariest card since it picks off 2/3 of your creatures and can kill goyfs in a goyf war, as well as sniping pwalkers. Having 4 wastes though helps keep their Groves down, so it's not totally miserable.
Overall I love the configuration of the MD, it hoses fair decks and isn't completely horrible against combo. I played some games for fun in between rounds against TES, a well timed force and waste pressure made the MU not quite so bad. I showed him my SB and he was scared. It's def the list I'll be using and tuning from now on, thanks for all the hard work with it Lejay!
Nice to hear that you like the deck, it's a shame that so few has picked up this version as Lejay has tested it so extensively. I'm sure that Lejay has things to add here but you usually bring in all the seizes (usually not the duress) vs Esper Stoneblade/Deathblade, and you might even bring in 1-2 against UWR Delver on the play I guess, though I usually don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHeff
You're right about StP, I don't usually side it against slower blade decks, but against most other creature matchups. It's very potent against RUG Delver for example because you get an extra land (the Savannah) and also a super-charged disfigure. As you can cast StP with either Deathrite or cascade as well you usually don't even have to fetch the Savannah for it.
I also bring it in against reanimator. Once I had a reanimator opponent go t1 Tidespout Tyrant, and at his EoT i fetched and plowed it. The look on his face. :)
This version played a Tombstalker in the deck initially but it was switched to a Maelstrom Pulse to free up an SB-slot and give us a MD answer to Batterskull etc.
This might have been discussed before but against what matchups in particular do you, who pack the white package in sideboard, side the white cards in and what cards you then name with Meddling Mage? Also, maybe there are more white cards that are worth sideboarding?
If you by "the white package" refer to Meddling Mage the answer is in short that you bring those in against combo. You can also bring them in against weird things like Lands (naming Punishing Fire/Loam for example).Quote:
Originally Posted by DOM
In regards to what to name the answer is: It depends. Meddling Mage is an interesting skill intensive card that really rewards a deep knowledge of how Legacy combo decks operate. But one strength of bringing in 4 discard and 4 MM is that you can often go t1 discard and see their hand, t2 MM and name something that you left there. But it all depends on the situation, matchup, version of the deck you face etc. A very loose guideline (ALWAYS ADAPT) I guess would be:
Vs Sneak & Show you name Show and Tell or Sneak Attack.
Vs ANT you name either Infernal Tutor, Burning Wish (if they play it, pay attention), Lion's Eye Diamond or Ad Nauseam.
Against TES it's about the same but going blind BW might be better to name, it all depends.
Against Elves you usually name Natural Order or Glimpse of Nature, but secondary targets like GSZ or Elvish Visionary are also possible.
Against OmniTell you name Show and tell or Enter the Infinite if they play it.
But these guidelines are not fixed at all, you have to adapt constantly to how the game shapes out, to what your opponent has in his/her hand etc etc etc. Etc.
Regarding more white cards I play a Containment Priest in the Grafdigger's Cage slot nowadays. Other than that, the 4 MM and the 1 StP I'm not sure if any other white card is necessary. Is there something you have in mind?
Ran the following at my local weekly legacy event because I really wanted to try out Tasigur in it. Based on Lejay's list but I went down to 2 Liliana and added Tasigur. Also added 2 Containment Priests to the board (I don't like Leylines because hate mulliganing for them) which were good versus Elves and these is a decent amount of Show and Tell and Reanimator in my meta.
Went 3-0-1 and split top 4. Beat Stasis 2-0 (Deluge was key in killing his Quiron and Scrybe Sprites) Death and Taxes 2-0 (deluge was pretty big here as was Tasigur) Elves 2-0 and IDed with Jund. Split top 4. Managed to dodge Storm despite we have several Storm players.
Tasigur is pretty awesome although I only used his ability once. A 4/5 for 1 or 2 mana on turn 3 is pretty nice.
Not sure if I want Dig Through Time because Rest in Peace already nerfs your Tarmogoyfs and Tasigur. Also is the issue of what to cut for it. I like Ponder because it helps dig.
Black (5)
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Tasigur the Golden Fang
2 Toxic Deluge
Blue (15+4 multi)
4 Ancestral Visions.
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Jace the Mindsculptor
1 Ponder
Multi Color (13)
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Shardless Agent
Green (5)
1 Sylvan Library
4 Tarmogoyf
Land (22)
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (15)
2 Containment Priest
2 Duress
1 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Meddling Mage
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
1 Null Rod
1 Savannah
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thoughtseize
@DOM
White Package really is for Combo. Containment Priest is good versus Dredge, Elves, Reanimator, Sneak and Show.
What you name with Meddling Mage really depends on the combo you are playing against what the board position is and if you saw their hand with Duress/Thoughtseize and if they played some number of X card you will be less likely to name it.
ANT you name infernal tutor.
Elves depends, if you have a Containment priest or Grafdigger's Cage you name Abrupt Decay. Otherwise Natural Order if they have enough elves for a lethal Craterhoof. Second one usually names Abrupt Decay. They tend to board out some number of Glimpse.
High Tide you name Cunning Wish since they usually have to wish for their brainfreeze and wish for their bounce. Second one names high tide.
Omni Tell - Show and Tell since Dream Halls is more expensive and not all are running it.
Sneak and Show - Show and Tell blind. If you have Containment Priest out you name Pyroclasm.
TES you name Burning Wish since they can wish for outs and their tendrils is in the board. Second one names Infernal Tutor.
Nice to see that the deck performs.
Having 2 Containment Priest and the Cage seems a bit excessive, I would replace the cage before I replace the Leyline with priest.
Regarding the Leyline, and this has been stated before: you don't mulligan for it. If you have it in your starting hand it's great but what that card is in the SB for is not stuff like reanimator but actually for decks like Lands and other aggressive Loam/Punishing Fire decks. I feel that too many people forget that the cost of Leyline isn't GGBBWWRRUU but just 2BB, which is easy to hardcast if drawn later in a game. You can watch Lejays final from the last Bazaar of Moxen if they are still available where he faces Aggro Loam. The card really shines although he does not have it in his opener.
That being said, if there isn't any Punishing Fire/Loam strategies in you meta it's totally fine to replace the card, but it is important to remember what the Leyline is there to do when you think about replacing it.
Cheers for the list Lejay, played it a bit locally and felt super good.
@LarsLeif
Containment Priest is good against Aether Vial, Sneak and Show and Elves in addition to graveyard strategies. You do have to mulligan for graveyard hate against Dredge and sometimes Reanimator where you need it early. Leyline is not very good in those situations unless in your opening hand. 2BB is too slow vs Dredge or Reanimator.
May consider Leyline for a Star City larger event but in my local meta there is Burn and combo which hates out lands and loam.
I would certainly recommend Leyline in an open metagame. My point was mostly concerning that you can probably cut Cage for the Leyline with 2 Containment Pries in the SB as Dredge and Reanimator are pretty good matchups regardless with 4 MM, 4 FoW, 4DRS and 4 Discard amongst other cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirika
On another note how do you usually board against Vial decks? I would not board Priest against any vial decks, it just does too little to warrant a weak 2/2 body, especially since Vial decks tend to run Wasteland.
I have been testing this deck, and I have no clue how it beats Burn. The deck feels pretty good against most things except Burn and Lands though.
Simple. It looses unless you make room for at least 4 slots in the sb for chills which is preatty much devastating against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
I think this matchup the most important card is tarmogoyf and g1 is all about luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
I sb in this way, lejay s list
+
savannah 1
meddling mage 4
duress 1
swords to plowshares 1
-
liliana of the viel 3
toxic deluge 2
maestrom pulse 1
wasteland 1
Yeah, the Burn matchup is very rough, it is actually the worst matchup for this deck. Meddling Mage is fine but not amazing, goyf is good, and DRS is ok.
But overall this version of the deck is not adapted to beating that deck, so try dodging it! :P
What do you guys name with Meddling Mage against Burn? Price of Progress?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsang
Ideally after they've laid down 2 rift bolts and they have no answer...I've lived the dream.
If burn is very popular in your meta I would rather switch to a stoneforge deckQuote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
As usual it depends. I usually keep my wastelands in so that you can waste yourself in response to pop. Usually, name the cards that you can't beat. If you've played multiple nonbasics, then name PoP. Other targets are Fireblast, Rift Bolt on suspend etc, it really depends. But yes, Pop is fine to name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
Caution: if you have a MM out naming PoP then for gods sake don't play all your nonbasic lands. Then they will just bolt the mage and kill you.
Apart from those obvious; i have learnt searing blaze is not a bad call.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
Also, you might as well name whatever you saw in your opponent's hand with the discard spell you cast earlier.
So, I was browsing through a crap pile of booster material and Monastery Siege caught my attention. In Dragon mode it is a Chill with a slightly bigger mana cost and a broader usage as it affects spells of all colours. In Khans mode Siege cantrips during your draw step. It would be fun to have it in Khans mode alongside Sylvan Library. I'm just not quite sure whether you draw this additional card prior or after your normal draw, as it would be rather weak while hellbent. Anyway, it is solely a crappy sideboard material, definitely no competitor for a MB Sylavn Library, but it seemed interesting.