[Deck] bUrg Tempo

Dazes get worse as the games goes on
Once Quiron Ranger hits the table, wastelands value drops.
By forcing the first turn llanowar and wasting their first land, you're setting the Elf player back 2 turns.

We're a tempo deck, and against Elves a lot of our cards become irrelevant past an early game board state.

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Originally Posted by Tormod

Dazes get worse as the games goes on
Once Quiron Ranger hits the table, wastelands value drops.
By forcing the first turn llanowar and wasting their first land, you're setting the Elf player back 2 turns.

We're a tempo deck, and against Elves a lot of our cards become irrelevant past an early game board state.

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That is all true but if you force you have only a 7! turn clock even if delver flips instantly and you have no gas left. If you had another blue card for Force i would force the manadork pretty much every time, but since forcing means halfing your clock i dont think it is worth it. Just wasting Bayou, drop a delver and going into a race with a hardcounter for the first Natural Order seems more successfull.

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Originally Posted by pe5e

That is all true but if you force you have only a 7! turn clock even if delver flips instantly and you have no gas left. If you had another blue card for Force i would force the manadork pretty much every time, but since forcing means halfing your clock i dont think it is worth it. Just wasting Bayou, drop a delver and going into a race with a hardcounter for the first Natural Order seems more successfull.

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I can see your reasoning as well and you make good points. There's still a whole game that needs to played out and we're working on very little information. I'm interested to see how the poster who asked the question played it out.

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Originally Posted by Tormod

I can see your reasoning as well and you make good points. There's still a whole game that needs to played out and we're working on very little information. I'm interested to see how the poster who asked the question played it out.

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I forced the elf pitching delver. On my turn, I drew a fetchland, wasted Bayou, and cast Ponder. Ponder revealed Deathrite Shaman, Lightning Bolt, and a fetchland, and I didn't shuffle, setting myself up to flip Delver and shuffle away the fetchland.

My opponent played Dryad Arbor and passed. On my turn, I flipped Delver, cast DRS, and Bolted the Dryad Arbor. If you disagree with this play, or with the Ponder play, please let me know.

I ended up getting him down to 3, but my opponent Abrupt Decayed my Delver and cast Choke with DRS on the board to lock me out of the game.

I think it's a really tough decision. Essentially, am I more favored to beat my opponent's unknown six card hand and empty with a potentially flipped Delver, a Volcanic Island in play, a Ponder/Delver in hand, and an unknown card in hand than if I'd held FoW? Any insights on figuring out what to do in these situations would be helpful.

I would let the mana dork resolve, go to my turn, waste the bayou and drop the second delver, if u are not unlucky with the delvers this is a 3 turn clock with force back-up. if you draw another blue card, you can cantrip on turn 3 into bolt or whatever you need. I cant see how he can win if the Board is double delver, 1 land + force backUp against his lonley manaelf.

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Originally Posted by blablub

I would let the mana dork resolve, go to my turn, waste the bayou and drop the second delver, if u are not unlucky with the delvers this is a 3 turn clock with force back-up. if you draw another blue card, you can cantrip on turn 3 into bolt or whatever you need. I cant see how he can win if the Board is double delver, 1 land + force backUp against his lonley manaelf.

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After thinking about it a bit, I agree with this line. Doubling the speed of our clock with FoW backup likely restricts our opponent's ability to play his game more than countering the elf. We can also draw 6 cards which interact one for one with the elf. Thanks for taking the time to think about the play.

You're welcome :)

Maybe we can discuss the creature-base. Do you all play Delver? i don't like him because we play a lil bit different then normal Canadian. Without Spell Pierces it's hard to protect it. Another Point is that Deathrite Shaman is simply the better first Drop. A Lot of Team America Players say that Delver is the worst card in the Deck.

What do you think about this?

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Bitterblossom

I've found this Configuration in Florians Kochs MTGO-Account, looks pretty sweet, no Delvers and no Nemesis, Maybe you need 2 Cliques in the Board against Combo to neutralize the Lack of the Delver Pressure.

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Originally Posted by blablub

Maybe we can discuss the creature-base. Do you all play Delver? i don't like him because we play a lil bit different then normal Canadian. Without Spell Pierces it's hard to protect it. Another Point is that Deathrite Shaman is simply the better first Drop. A Lot of Team America Players say that Delver is the worst card in the Deck.

What do you think about this?

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Bitterblossom

I've found this Configuration in Florians Kochs MTGO-Account, looks pretty sweet, no Delvers and no Nemesis, Maybe you need 2 Cliques in the Board against Combo to neutralize the Lack of the Delver Pressure.

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For me there is no Tempo list without Delver. He puts up the fastest pressure, costs only 1 mana, gives a blue Card for Force of Will in Combo MUs and having Flying is very relevant. I also dont agree that Deathrite Shaman is always the better Turn 1 drop. It depends a lot on the MU, the rest of your hand(for example holding a one lander and fearing Wasteland) and how you like to play your next turns. A lot of the time i drop Delver over Shaman just because you dont have instants or socerys to remove yet. If you have nuts lines like drop Shaman, Wasteland, drop another threat with counterbackup Shaman is the way to go. But i dont think you can generalize this question. Also i dont get it why having less Spell Pierces makes Delver worse and Shaman better. Could you explain what you mean with that?


The above creature configaration is fine if you expect a lot of grindy MUs and not much graveyard hate. To maindeck Bitterblossom seems wrong though. You really only want that card against control deck otherwise it is way way to clunky and slow. Bitterblossom should stay in the SB if you really want to play it(although i dont like the card in general). But the second Shaman you draw will having a hard time looking for another black source.

For refrence, this is my decklist right now:

2 Nimble Mongoose
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Green Sun's Zenith

4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Dismember
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Spell Pierce
1 Sylvan Library

4 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn

SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Envelop
SB: 2 Spell Snare
SB: 1 Forked Bolt

I am still super happy with GSZ but i looks like i am am the only one even playing it :D.

My cents

Well with this decklist you crush all combodecks and controldecks for sure with an overload on countermagic (and library of course)
What about the grindy mathups?
For me it looks like that you are not well equipped against team america and jund due to missing submerges (ways to get rid of tombstalker or goyfs,these guys are kinda difficult to get rid of)

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

Well with this decklist you crush all combodecks and controldecks for sure with an overload on countermagic (and library of course)
What about the grindy mathups?
For me it looks like that you are not well equipped against team america and jund due to missing submerges (ways to get rid of tombstalker or goyfs,these guys are kinda difficult to get rid of)

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I think I have enough solutions for goyf after boarding. Against Goyfdecks i board 2 Spell Snare and 1 Abrupt Decay in along with the one maindeck Decay and the Dismember. Also if you play Goyf on your own it isnt that much of a problem as if you play the Pyromancer version. I had 2 Submerge in my SB for a while, then 1 and then cut it completely. The only reson to play the card for me is Goyf, Stalker and Knight. But i rarely see Knight and Stalker nowadays and i feel like for Goyf i can play more flexibel cards that i can also bring in against Stoneblade for example. Also since most decks playing Goyf also play Daze and Deathrite Shaman or Shardless Agent Submerge becomes a lot less attractive.
Team America and Jund are about equal. I have a bit more problems with Shardless BUG, but here the Problems are Baleful Strix and Shardless Agent.

Deathrite Shaman is not there do do Damage, u just don't want to drain in the early turns. The Drain Ability comes later when u wanna win.
Its there to bring you ahead on Mana and to make the opposing DRS useless because the other deck needs him more against our Wastes+Stifle. At least you don't want to Tap Out @ end of Turn. Simply because you wont give the opponent a window for fetching or bolting or whatever.

the difference between Delver and DRS is that your Opponent has to kill it immediately. If you can untap with it, the DRS has done his job in most cases. The Delver can live 2-3 Turns because he only deals Damage, 3-9 Damage is ok for the Opponent. The fact that he is blue makes him even worser because of REB. You have to spent resources on protecting your threat. This is bad because the card quality of the Tier-Decks is so high that you can't afford to use a Spell Pierce to counter a lightning bolt, because there might be another card which is more important to counter or the next removal-spell hits. Especially Postboard most opponents have a shitload removal-spells because they don't wanna get Delver Nutted

When i see your list, i can see that you have an alternate gameplan than mine. Cutting Mungos can't be right, there is no world there this can be correct. the Same about Spell Snares.
Also i can't see how you can win against Miracles Preboard with only one Decay and no Snares you die to Counterbalance, RiP and Stoneforge.

With Snares Maindeck your Jund, TA and Shardless MU become better, too

By the Way, Canadian Thresh existed without Delvers, good old time :D

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Originally Posted by blablub

Deathrite Shaman is not there do do Damage, u just don't want to drain in the early turns. The Drain Ability comes later when u wanna win.
Its there to bring you ahead on Mana and to make the opposing DRS useless because the other deck needs him more against our Wastes+Stifle. At least you don't want to Tap Out @ end of Turn. Simply because you wont give the opponent a window for fetching or bolting or whatever.

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Ok, now i see what you are talking about. I thought we discuss which is the better THREAT Turn 1. Shaman allows you to play the disruption role first and drop a threat later, that is right.

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the difference between Delver and DRS is that your Opponent has to kill it immediately. If you can untap with it, the DRS has done his job in most cases. The Delver can live 2-3 Turns because he only deals Damage, 3-9 Damage is ok for the Opponent. The fact that he is blue makes him even worser because of REB. You have to spent resources on protecting your threat. This is bad because the card quality of the Tier-Decks is so high that you can't afford to use a Spell Pierce to counter a lightning bolt, because there might be another card which is more important to counter or the next removal-spell hits. Especially Postboard most opponents have a shitload removal-spells because they don't wanna get Delver Nutted.

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I see what you mean and it is right that delver does die at some point. But when he did 9 damage til then i am feeling pretty good and look for another threat to drop. I dont think the removel part is right here. Deathrite Shaman dies to almost anything that Delver does, but last one is just better if you have to be and can be aggressive. Depends on the MU and your role in it. I dont think you can generalize it.

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When i see your list, i can see that you have an alternate gameplan than mine. Cutting Mungos can't be right, there is no world there this can be correct. the Same about Spell Snares.
Also i can't see how you can win against Miracles Preboard with only one Decay and no Snares you die to Counterbalance, RiP and Stoneforge.

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Well i only play 1 Mongoose less then you so it is not that i banished him out of the deck or anything. We all know how good he is. I just dont feel like i need 4 right know. There are MUs where you dont want him early so just cantrip into him later and close out the game. I didnt cut Spell Snares all together ether. I dont know about you but i face more MUs where Spell Pierce is better G1, so I maindeck Spell Pierce and board Spell Snare. I want to keep the maindeck as flexible as possible
and swap or add Silverbullets after bording. Things like Counterbalance, Hymn and such still fall to Spell Pierce while also countering Liliana and other nasty stuff G1. Rest in Peace only exist in Miracle Sideboards nowadays and then i have Spell Snares for them so that is not the Problem. I even resist it better because my creatures are less graveyard depended.
My Miracle score is quit good acually. Mongoose still slaughters them even with Rest in Peace in play. We play more counters then them and after you counter one Balance and put them low on life with a good board presence you let the seconde one resolve and force the Terminus. Stoneforge Mystic is normally SB package for which i have Spell Snare G2. And if they play them maindeck it is even better since Bolts become bettter.

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With Snares Maindeck your Jund, TA and Shardless MU become better, too

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That is right but i feel like we have a good Chance G1 and I rather board into a good G2 and maybe G3. I dont like the fact that you only have 4 Force G1 for noncreature permanents if they can play around Daze. After all those are the cards that worry us the most and Spell Pierce covers them better G1 than Spell Snare.

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By the Way, Canadian Thresh existed without Delvers, good old time :D

In the time when he wasnt printed and about a month after ist release yeah :P

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if you can counter the balance consistently with Pierces ur opponents are simply bad. Also you mentioned non-creature Spells which you like to Counter with Pierces, which doesn't get hit by Snare. Which?

As i said before, piercing Swords to Plowshares can be the wrongest thing

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Originally Posted by blablub

if you can counter the balance consistently with Pierces ur opponents are simply bad. Also you mentioned non-creature Spells which you like to Counter with Pierces, which doesn't get hit by Snare. Which?

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Not consistently, but often enough before Turn 4-5 which is enough window for me to ether produce enough pressure so he has to play stuff to survive or i find a Force for it. Remember that we still talk about G1 only. G2 i got Snares since they are clearly good here. Some good Pierce targets of the top of my head are Top, Liliana, cc1 discard, removel, Equipment, Aether Vial and everything Combo plays.
The question if you play maindeck Snares or Pierces(or a split) just depends of the MUs in which one of those counters is better G1 than the other. Postboard you have access to both anyway.

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Originally Posted by blablub

As i said before, piercing Swords to Plowshares can be the wrongest Thing

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It CAN, but it CAN also destroy the Opponent :D

I was absolutely loving this deck idea for quite a while... but at this point I'm curious:

What are the pros to running this deck over say RUG or BUG? Both decks seem a bit more streamlined and not stretched nearly as far. Just wondering if the extra R or B splash is worth the greedier base. Cheers (:

The problem of burg tempo is not the greedy manabase. It actually never bothered me : you need black md only for decay in early game and you can protect your lands with stifle. I think that the problem of this deck is the creature configuration, namely deathrite shaman. This card is amazing but it is maybe not the best card for a tempo strategy like burg tempo (which is very close from rug). If you play drs, you get 1 turn ahead compared to your opponent. But generally, you don't need this turn ahead except vs a Tempo deck or if you have Tarmogoyf + disruption in hand. And if you want to deal damage early on, you will have to spend drs + land, which is quite heavy for a 4c-tempo deck (this is one of the reason i would never play taiga md - i prefer a 3rd tropical island).
Drs is a card that is "anti-tempo", and doesn't serve the tempo strat very well (only in 2 cases : tarmo + drs + disruption in hand/the opponent has drs in play). Bug tempo is more of a midrange deck and uses drs correctly.
If I were to play burg tempo again, i would play tnn instead of mongoose for instance, to have a better use of drs, which is compulsory in this 4c deck.


By the way, what do you think about boarding surgical extraction vs Jund if I have md 4 Tarmogoyf 4 drs 4 delver 2 snare 2 decay ?

It's often CA-1 for us and could be favourable for the opponent. If the mana denial plan fails, either i get rid of punishing fire and fly over his creatures with delver/drs (but he will have reb/bolt for delver and bolt/drs for drs...) or i try to beatdown with my tarmogoyfs : in this game plan, i could surgical decay (but he will have tarmogoyf + punishing fire in this case - i have 2 decay + bolt-tarmo + snare as well). Any thoughts ?

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Originally Posted by JosephK

The problem of burg tempo is not the greedy manabase. It actually never bothered me : you need black md only for decay in early game and you can protect your lands with stifle. I think that the problem of this deck is the creature configuration, namely deathrite shaman. This card is amazing but it is maybe not the best card for a tempo strategy like burg tempo (which is very close from rug). If you play drs, you get 1 turn ahead compared to your opponent. But generally, you don't need this turn ahead except vs a Tempo deck or if you have Tarmogoyf + disruption in hand. And if you want to deal damage early on, you will have to spend drs + land, which is quite heavy for a 4c-tempo deck (this is one of the reason i would never play taiga md - i prefer a 3rd tropical island).
Drs is a card that is "anti-tempo", and doesn't serve the tempo strat very well (only in 2 cases : tarmo + drs + disruption in hand/the opponent has drs in play). Bug tempo is more of a midrange deck and uses drs correctly.
If I were to play burg tempo again, i would play tnn instead of mongoose for instance, to have a better use of drs, which is compulsory in this 4c deck.

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The manabase for sure is a problem. Sure you have Daze, Deathrite Shaman and Stifle to protect it, but it is still worse than the manabase of RUG or BUG. But the benefits to be able to play Bolt, Pyroblast as well as Decay and Golgari Charm( depends if you splash more red or black cards) seem higher than the disadvantages of the slightly worse manabase. Deathrite Shaman alone is not the reson to play bUrg. The reson to splash 2 colours are the SB options and acess to better removel you get that BUG or RUG cant have(for example Golgari Charm against TNN for RUG and Bolts for BUG).
Deathrite Shaman itself IS a tempo card, but just not alone. It needs another threat to make him amazing. For example dealing 5 damage with Delver with great evasion while you can always keep up all your mana on the oppenents turn is great. Sure alone he is kinda slow at the begining. But that is just not his job in the early turns. It is to accelerate you during the early game to faster develop other threats and still keep up disruption. If you are in a MU where you have to be fast then you should always drop your other threat first( or cantrip into one if you havent one already). In those MUs he is kinda like Nimble Mogoose - You drop them later.
Taiga isnt there for Deathrite Shaman to begin with. It is there for the situations where you dont have him and still want to play both Bolt/Pyroblast and Golgari Charm/Decay( for exampe Death and Taxes or Stoneblade). Sure it is the worst card in the deck but it is necessary. You will be screwed from time to time because of it but you will be a lot more often not be able to have B and R at the same time if you cut it. You really only search for it if you have no other way anyway.
After all Deathrite Shaman is mainly there to hold the manabase together and dealing damage later. That is the reson most lists run 3 pieces since it is hard to have double black for two Shaman drains.

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Originally Posted by JosephK

By the way, what do you think about boarding surgical extraction vs Jund if I have md 4 Tarmogoyf 4 drs 4 delver 2 snare 2 decay ?

It's often CA-1 for us and could be favourable for the opponent. If the mana denial plan fails, either i get rid of punishing fire and fly over his creatures with delver/drs (but he will have reb/bolt for delver and bolt/drs for drs...) or i try to beatdown with my tarmogoyfs : in this game plan, i could surgical decay (but he will have tarmogoyf + punishing fire in this case - i have 2 decay + bolt-tarmo + snare as well). Any thoughts ?

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I cant see how you EVER make CA with Extraction. For this situation the Jund player has to have the target in the graveyard already , two more in hand, which he cant play in responds(Fire, Decay) and cant exile the target with Deathrite Shaman or return it with Grove. That is a lot of when in my opinion. About 80% of the time you would acually make CDA since you discarded a card, shocked yourself( or paid mana) while your opponent loses only a card in their deck that they maybe wouldnt even draw for the rest of the game. A card that makes CDA seems rather poor against a deck that plays Bloodbraid Elf, Hymn to Tourach and Liliana of the Veil.

My cents

Hi guys,
Although I have been following various threads on the source for a while, this is my first comment :)

I want to elaborate on the bUrg delver deck a bit. Before I used to play UWR Delver (achieved good results), RUG Delver, ANT, and dredge. The bUrg Delver looks really great tho, perhaps exactly how I image the right delver deck.

Here is the decklist I want to run next time.

4x delver
4x shaman
4x young pyro

4x ponder, 4x brain, 4x gitaxian
4x fow, 4x daze, 4x stifle
2x bolt, 2x therapy

7x blue fetch
4x wasteland
3x sea
3x volcanic
1x tropical

Side -
3x pyroblast
2x lavamancer
2x deathmark
2x surgical extraction
1x mizzium skin
1x misdirection
1x marsh casualtis
1x ancient grudge
2x therapy


Creatures...when playing a delver deck 12 creatures is enough. 18 lands + 12 creatures....the rest is 30 isntant/sorceries, utlizing the delver flip as much as possible (rug also plays 12 creatures). Delver is obvious, four copies - no exception. You NEVER side them out. Maindeck Shaman is basically great, helps you gain speed when on turn, helps against spell pierce, daze, is usefull against reanimator, dredge even rug delver. Compared to turn 1 Nimble mongoose, turn 1 shaman is a much better start. Young Pyromancer, a relatively weak card, however, not in our deck! Obvious combo with gitaxian probes, young pyromancer is sometimes better than goyf, is not dependend on graveyard, amazing with therapies. When having two pyromancers in play and you cast a cantrip, that is just awesome.

Dazes, stifles, fows, cantrips and bolts are the standard cards of most power for least mana. I included two therapies for the two flex spots. WHy? Because they are bescially super awesome even maindeck. Opposed to Rug delver, where players play max. 3 gitaxian probes, this deck fully utlizies the probes, what also makes our stifle targets more precise, and turn 2 therapy after a probe is good not only against combo, but also against fair decks, which are somewhat difficult matchup for us.
I only have one tropical island, as I mainly want to use black for my shamans to remove instants and sorceries + I play maindeck therapies. I topical is just fine.

Why I don't want to include - TNN - yes, they are great, but they are useless against combo (pyromancer is much faster and costs just 2 mana). TNN also costs three mana, which is still quite a lot. I understand some players may add 2 copies in this deck, but I see no reason to do it. Against Jund or Maverick (which I found to be the worst matchup), TNN is semi-good. It can block infitelly and is unblockable, yet When played well, young pyromancer can do similar damage.
Nimble mongoose - After playing RUG, I hated those turn 1 mongoose, which is a 3/3 on turn 3 soonest.
Submerge in side - Yes, it has the advantage that yu play it for free (maybe even get an elemental), but those fair decks will just draw the knight of the reliquary, opposing shaman, goyf, ooze the turn after. I also found Submerge to be relatively weak against elves. Submerge is also useless aginst non-green decks. Therefore, I decided to include deathmarks which actually solves the problem, it costs just one mana and is uselful against elves, d&t, maverick, jund (our relatively bad matchups).

Concerning the side - two therapies are great against combo. Against fair decks live maverick, I usually add a third therapy and throw some fows out. ofc. depending on whether I am on play or turn. Mizzium skin - Inspired by Rill's side, this card is a surprise mainly against BUG decks - decays and charms, decks with swords and blots. I misdirection against combo and perhpas against hymns. 3 pyroblasts against all blue decks and against TNNs. ancient grudge against vials, equipments and random artifacts. I mention deathmark earlier - seems as the best solution for one mana against decks that are difficult to play against. 2 lavamncers against random goblins, d&t, merfolks, uwr delver, elves and other creatures like mother of runes. I usually would take out two shamans and replace them with lavamancers. 2 surgicals are good against combo, reanimator, and dredge.
The cards I usually side out are dazes when on turn, stifles, fows when on play (i add dazes again), bolts against combo (I would leave 2-3 bolts against ANT and TES). Sometimes I want shamans out, mainly when I want to add lavamancer. Remember you can also side out wastelands which are uselss against Hightide and other random decks.

I hope to see this deck succeed more often. I believe it is somehat stronger than rug or uwr delver, as 4 probes gives you the max. information how to play around other spells and when to save manafor stifle and so on. In other decks like rug, there is no space for 4 probes.

I hope I provided you with some inspiration. I will be happy to see your comments and suggestions.
Peace out

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The manabase for sure is a problem. Sure you have Daze, Deathrite Shaman and Stifle to protect it, but it is still worse than the manabase of RUG or BUG. But the benefits to be able to play Bolt, Pyroblast as well as Decay and Golgari Charm( depends if you splash more red or black cards) seem higher than the disadvantages of the slightly worse manabase. Deathrite Shaman alone is not the reason to play bUrg. The reason to splash 2 colours are the SB options and acess to better removals you get that BUG or RUG cant have(for example Golgari Charm against TNN for RUG and Bolts for BUG).

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Against the vast majority of decks, you are the aggressor, as a tempo deck. Wasting you is often a bad idea. I can't remember a game I lost because I needed a colour I couldn't have. I have more green sources than RUG (3 drs 3 trop). I'm not sure which one of the 2 decks has the worse manabase MD. Postside, it depends on your sb plan (having 2 golgari charm 2 decay is indeed quite hard to handle) Decay is a great card, but again, is not the best tempo card (generally you spend 2 to remove a 2 cmc permanent). Submerge is a lot better vs Fair decks for instance. But Decay is very versatile and can hit enchantments, artifacts, etc.. It remains a good card.
Adding Black gives you more tools but doesn't exactly fit the tempo game plan.

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Deathrite Shaman itself IS a tempo card, but just not alone. It needs another threat to make him amazing. For example dealing 5 damage with Delver with great evasion while you can always keep up all your mana on the oppenents turn is great. Sure alone he is kinda slow at the begining. But that is just not his job in the early turns. It is to accelerate you during the early game to faster develop other threats and still keep up disruption. If you are in a MU where you have to be fast then you should always drop your other threat first( or cantrip into one if you havent one already). In those MUs he is kinda like Nimble Mogoose - You drop them later.
Taiga isnt there for Deathrite Shaman to begin with. It is there for the situations where you dont have him and still want to play both Bolt/Pyroblast and Golgari Charm/Decay( for exampe Death and Taxes or Stoneblade). Sure it is the worst card in the deck but it is necessary. You will be screwed from time to time because of it but you will be a lot more often not be able to have B and R at the same time if you cut it. You really only search for it if you have no other way anyway.
After all Deathrite Shaman is mainly there to hold the manabase together and dealing damage later. That is the reson most lists run 3 pieces since it is hard to have double black for two Shaman drains.

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I said that drs was necessary and that it was the reason burg tempo was not successful. I explained why it wasn't a good tempo card. You say it's a good tempo card because you can deal 2 damages in mid game ? I think you can find better threats for that.

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I cant see how you EVER make CA with Extraction. For this situation the Jund player has to have the target in the graveyard already , two more in hand, which he cant play in responds(Fire, Decay) and cant exile the target with Deathrite Shaman or return it with Grove. That is a lot of when in my opinion. About 80% of the time you would acually make CDA since you discarded a card, shocked yourself( or paid mana) while your opponent loses only a card in their deck that they maybe wouldnt even draw for the rest of the game. A card that makes CDA seems rather poor against a deck that plays Bloodbraid Elf, Hymn to Tourach and Liliana of the Veil.

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Lol please read what i wrote another time (CA -1). Basically i say, knowing that I loose a card (CA -1), do you think that getting rid of punishing fire/decay (depending on your game plan) is worth it ?

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Originally Posted by JosephK

Against the vast majority of decks, you are the aggressor, as a tempo deck. Wasting you is often a bad idea. I can't remember a game I lost because I needed a colour I couldn't have. I have more green sources than RUG (3 drs 3 trop). I'm not sure which one of the 2 decks has the worse manabase MD. Postside, it depends on your sb plan (having 2 golgari charm 2 decay is indeed quite hard to handle) Decay is a great card, but again, is not the best tempo card (generally you spend 2 to remove a 2 cmc permanent). Submerge is a lot better vs Fair decks for instance. But Decay is very versatile and can hit enchantments, artifacts, etc.. It remains a good card.
Adding Black gives you more tools but doesn't exactly fit the tempo game plan.

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In the sence that black is slower and so you dont create tempo, that is right. But those cards are not splashed to create tempo. They are splashed to solve problems that you otherwise cant (or way worse). Otherwise you did make good points and i agree with you.

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I said that drs was necessary and that it was the reason burg tempo was not successful. I explained why it wasn't a good tempo card. You say it's a good tempo card because you can deal 2 damages in mid game ? I think you can find better threats for that.

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I basicly said that Deathrite Shaman is a tempo card because it sets you ahead early while being a threat later(not the best but still only 1 damage less than Delver). No other creature can do that.

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Lol please read what i wrote another time (CA -1). Basically i say, knowing that I loose a card (CA -1), do you think that getting rid of punishing fire/decay (depending on your game plan) is worth it ?

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Sorry, I missunderstand you there. I think most of the time it isnt worth it because the problematic card was already played. Making CDA afterwards should get you ahead then.

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