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Nice job. I think Stifle is really well positioned right now, its not uncommon to mana starve all these BUG decks. However, Probe just plays so well with Stifle... and Young Peezy plays so well with Probe! I find it hard to cut YP altogether, but i've only been playing with 2 for a while now, and it feels great. I dont like Tombstalker, the card is fantastic, but double black is rough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheManWithaPlan
Yeah, when it comes to Stifle I really like 3 more than 4. 4 is great too don't get me wrong, I just think 3 feels like the right amount just in case you are behind or it is dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisCBR
I also think it is pretty well positioned. Especially online where you can basically guarantee you will face Miracles, which is a pain with cabal centric lists.
After playing an Eternal Extravaganza Satellite Series on Saturday I do see the problem with the double black on Tombstalker. I do like it as a one of though because of its ability to just randomly be a bigger deal than Gurmag Angler. I stole game 1 off of U/R Delver in round 4 because Tombstalker flies. I did end up losing in the Quarter Finals due to Tombstalker's double black restriction and drawing a 4th land at an inopportune time. That said how do you feel about a 1 of Badlands over a Volcanic Island?Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisCBR
As for the Stifle thing I didn't get to Stifle as many people as I did on Friday Night because of the matchups I faced. I played against all 3 Sneak&Show players, Lands U/R Delver and drew with Grixis Delver in the swiss. Then I played against Grixis Delver in the top 8.
I just went 3-0-1 at our weekly LGS Legacy night, with a 1st overall finish out of 22 folks. It was my first time running Stifle in the Grixis Delver shell and I think it was a powerhouse against the fair decks I played.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
Beat Canadian Threshold 2-0, BR Reanimator 2-0, and Miracles 2-1. Drew with some sort of Abzan Deathblade/D&T/Deathrite-thing to guarantee Top 4, but played out a couple games for fun (1-1).
Stifle went to work on fetchlands of course, but notably also saved me against a miracle Terminus, Wastelands and some Deathrite lifegain activations to maintain my clock with TNN/Delvers.
MB:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Young Pyromancer
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Dismember
1 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Stifle
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
SB:
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Dread of Night
1 Flusterstorm
1 Baleful Strix
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroblast
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Winter Orb
I've also been thinking about running stifle. It's honestly hard to decide. My local meta has no dnt or eldrazi so, it'd probably be pretty good. But having to leave mana up for drs makes it awkward on occasion.
Edit: cabal therapy fits well in the side, but is also just a strong md card in this list, to further elaborate
I was always leading T1 with a delver or DRS to deploy a threat. Then T2 is when you can start tempo'ing with Stifle or (if there's nothing worth Stifling) end-of-turn DRS drain them. Stifle also helped fill the graveyard faster, which was nice because my Anglers did work against Threshold and Miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdventuresWithTarmo
Very nice, well done. Your main deck is exactly what i've been playing, and doing well with, lately. I've top 8'd two of the last three Legacy Challenges online with Stifle Grixis, and have a sprinkling of 5-0's in Leagues the last few months, getting another one just yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by budokan
I love the ability to side into a version of the deck with both Stifle and Cabal Therapies for matchups like Storm. Stifle also has random uses like stopping Pernicious Deed from Nic Fit decks and Engineered Explosives from Miracles. I've used it after a Daze on an opponent who only left up a Fetchland, to force them to crack it. When all else fails, you can pitch it to Force, which i feel like the Cabal Grixis deck sometimes was light on blue cards to pitch. It can stop Jitte triggers, Stoneforge ETB, Planeswalker activiations... so much stuff, its the ultimate tempo card when youve established a clock and i agree that 3 feels right.
I think a more tempo oriented version of Grixis Delver, compared to the more mid-rangey Cabal version, is the place to be right now, but you can also very easily swap in the Cabals.
I think more people should try it.
As far as playing it out, you def still lead with DRS or Delver turn 1. The best way to ruin yourself is to try and get too greedy and Stifle their first fetch. A turn 1 DRS, on the play, into a turn 2 bolt your thing, Waste your dual, hold up Stifle for your next fetch is practically unbeatable.
I came over to this deck as an old RUG guy, so maybe thats just my playstyle, but i feel like Grixis with Stifle tempos even better than the old RUG decks and is more aggressive. Having 8 legitimate 1 drop threats feels fantastic and you can quickly get to your real threats in YP's, Anglers, and TNN's. I'm loving this deck.
We are on the same page there. I was playing the stock 4 probe, 2 therapy MB version for a long time and although it was powerful, sometimes it felt a bit clunky. One of my friends who plays a BUG Stifle list recommended trying the card out.Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisCBR
Stifle seems like more of a catch-all right now with a lot of fair decks running around, while at the same time giving us a robust combo match up post-board. I also agree the added amount of blue density for Force "feels" better. Pitching a late draw or irrelevant Stifle is much nicer than having to pitch a Ponder, Brainstorm or TNN.
Thoughts I've been brewing in my head. This list:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
Sideboard
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pyroblast
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Winter Orb
1 Flusterstorm
1 Dismember
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Painful Truths
1 Pithing Needle
I know Grixis' lifetime has really been defined by Pyromancer, but with many lists (such as LewisCBR's) trimming lower and lower on Pyromancer and adding Stifle, it feels like the synergies he's adding are getting more and more reduced. With Pyromancer reduced Probe feels like a piece of air and a wasted slot in the deck, getting the Therapy synergy is less likely and most pertinently Pyromancer is poor with Stifle - he wants your to be aggressively tapping low and using your cantrips when he's in play, while Stifle promotes a "protect the queen" style of gameplay of leaving up mana. Games I've played have hinged on either Stifling their fetch that may come or getting that extra bit of value by tapping out for the token and usually the choice isn't clear cut.
In all honesty, I've been very dissatisfied with the whole Pyromancer package.
And so we come to this list. It takes a lot of influence from 4c Delver and RUG, but has the powerful black cards of Push, Angler and sideboard options while not sacrificing the aggressiveness of Bolt and Blasts. Admittedly the threat suite looks VERY clunky and slow and I expect games against combo without t1 Delver to be a harrowing experience. Maybe the Angler + Scour shells are a better place for this game plan. Nonetheless, is love to hear some thoughts.
@ChemicalBurns, I feel that you pinpointed the reason why Pyromancer is just not something you want in this list. I do want to add that without Cabal Therapy in the list I feel like this is why Probe loses its luster. Pyromancer + Probe was cute but in reality it was never really that great. I always felt that playing a Pyromancer with Probe as the only way to get value out of it without being desperate was a waste of Pyromancer. I'll certainly concur with your statement that Stifle + Pyromancer is a weird miss mash of playstyles that don't really work together well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns
Despite your threat base being somewhat clunky against combo I think you're really missing the fact that you are playing a list with 12 counterspells. On top of that you are playing Stife, Delver and Angler. You should be fine against combo if you know what you're doing. I feel like playing more Gurmag Anlgers and possibly Tombstalker (as I have ventured to do) along with Thought Scour, to power out these threats, is the way you want to go if you are not so keen on combo matchups. Just an observation, but grave bombs (like RIP) is not very high right now, but is probably coming back a little recently as B/R Reanimator is starting to settle down a bit.
Side Note: About Tombstalker, I have been doing some testing with a manabase of (see below) to better support Tombstalker. It feels fine. I would like more opinions on Tombstalker though, due to its absurd effectiveness at just winning games.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
To add my opinion to the mix, I am still not the biggest fan of Fatal Push in this deck. I would prefer having at least 1 Dismember in the mainboard to deal with threats through a Chalice of the Void or to kill Sanctum Prelate which can be a massive problem.
Another thought, I feel like this deck is trying to be too much like 4C Delver where 4C Delver is just better at doing what this list looks like it is trying to do on paper. I just feel that 4C Delver looks like a better option for this type of playstyle. Please take in the fact that I have done 0 testing with a list like this let alone even goldfish it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns
I've thought these very same thoughts. Getting rid of Pyromancer means i could get rid of Probe, which opens up space for all sorts of things like extra counters, burn, whatever you want. It would be a very RUG'esque transition. Or, to go along with the decks theme of evasive damage, slam in a few Snapcasters instead of YP to benefit from the good 'ol bolt-snap-bolt. In theory, i loved the idea. All my threats would either be flying, un-blockable, a huge fatty, DRS pings, or bolts, how could anyone possibly stop all that evasive damage?!?
So, i tried a list with Snapcasters and a few extra counter spells like Snare, and without Probes/YP... and it was very bad. I think i went 1-3 drop in the league and the whole feel of the deck was lost. Instead of being a threat heavy tempo deck, it was a clunky midrange deck that wasnt really doing anything well. I wanted to use my mana on DRS activations, not Snapping back bolts, and the extra counters were dead a lot of the time.
You can look at the list i've been championing lately and call it unfocused, but you could also call it flexible. With Ponders and Brainstorms, i feel like i can usually find the proper threat for the situation. Oh, you have Strix? Heres a TNN. Oh, you have Maze? Heres a YP. The configuration i've been playing with is very hard to combat for your opponent, and i like being on the offensive in this format right now. Too many times, with RUG, Snare rots in your hand, and i think Push might have that same feeling and it cant even be pitched to Force.
Plus, Probe. Whenever i cut Prove, i miss Probe. Whenever i get Probed, i feel naked. I've tried to even force Probe in RUG, the card is so good. A deck like Delver operates on giving life to get ahead, its not uncommon to hit yourself for 6-10 damage between fetches, Probes, Forces, and Dismember and you dont even care about it. If anything, i've been thinking about dropping the Spell Pierce for the last Probe. Probe is an amazing card. Sure, sometimes you keep a 2 lander with 2 Probes, that cycle into more lands, making your opener super awkward, but most of the time Probe is far more valuable by helping you plan your attack or feeding the yard for Angler. The fact that it can, sometimes, synergize with YP is just gravy.
YP is probably the weakest card in the deck, but it brings another angle of attack to an already diverse threat base. You dont get the dream YP/Therapy combo that often with my config, but i'm certainly not opposed to playing out a DRS and using that to flashback Therapy in a pinch. Its not card disadvantage, turning any of your one drops into a Thoughtseize is actually very flexible. There is a reason why Storm, who plays no creatures, still plays Therapy, its ridiculously good and has blowout potential.
In summary, i'm not so sure extra counters and kill spells is better than Probe and YP in this deck, or for the format right now in general. You usually want to exhaust your free counter magic early while you build a board of evasive threats, or hard to handle creatures, and YP fits that. YP is still a two drop in this deck, which i think the deck needs, since you have Probe, Daze, and Forces. Worst case scenario is they kill him and you dont get any 'value' elementals, but so what, YP is only a 2 mana commitment and that just means they have one less kill spell for the rest of your creature suite later. I think everything in this deck is must kill, which is hard on your opponent, and i dont mind drawing anything in this deck at the moment.
I'm off the Snare wagon. A while back, when playing a lot of RUG, i thought Snare was in a great position, but every time i probe someone, see a Snare in their hand, and play an Angler/Delver/DRS/TNN, i feel sorry for the poor sap.
Cards are too powerful nowadays, i dont think you can play 10-12 threats and call it a day. You need to be punching back, forcing your opponent to react to you. Otherwise, youre just a really bad control deck that finds itself digging for threats far more than you want to be doing. The 'new' RUG with TNN, Goose, and Mandrels is like this, a really bad control deck with no early threats and no card draw. How can that possibly keep up? But, i guess thats a different rant for a different day, lol.
Funny, if you scroll back to like a year ago in this thread you have a like-wise discussion about using Stifle or not in this deck, cutting Pyromancers while doing so.
I'm a big fan of using Stifle. Therapy always felt a bit useless playing vs other tempo/aggro decks while Stifle was almost always in some way usefull. Plus the huge benefit if you get to lock someone ouf of the game by destroying their lands. (Why let someone discard if they are unable to play anything? Also better contribution to the soft counters like Daze and Pierce).
Using either Snare of Pierce had been, in my experience, a meta-call. With something you need to keep in mind:
Do you want to protect your stuff in the first place and when possible counter something usefull to the opponent? (counter removal/counters/etc)
-or-
Do you want to control the board using counters and when possible key-spells to the opponen? (counter creatures like Goyf/Bob/SFM and something like Counterbalance)
If you want the first, use Pierce, want the second, use Snare. I myself find myself using pierce becouse I think Grixis has better creatures and better removal to offer to control the board and thus you need to protect them instead of controlling the opponent's board. In some cases they overlap, but this should not be something I need to point out.
I'm still using a variant of the list I dropped here some time ago:
12 Creatures:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Gurmag Angler
1 Vendilion Clique
30 Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Gitaxian Probe
18 Lands:
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
//Sideboard
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Bitterblossom
1 Divert
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroblast
1 Submerge
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Terminate
1 Volcanic Spray
Instead of using Angler I think I might swap back to Sultai Scavengers for a bit when I expect alot of BUG in the meta. Flying over TNN and such is just fun.
Sanctum Prelate is something I really hate to play against with this list, but I feel the sideboard will help me fix that issue (1 Terminate, 1 Spray and when in doubt 2 Decays)
But I need more test rounds to figure how to fight the "new" D&T.
Hey all - I'm playing LewisCBR's list in a 1k tomorrow after many helpful discussions with him (thank you very much!!). Here's the list and board and my sideboarding plans - I was wondering if anyone had any tips on my sideboarding or obvious things I may be missing, I'm sure I might be making a few mistakes or misevaluating cards. Thanks! I will share how it did after the event.
18 Lands
8x blue fetch
3x volcanic island
2x underground sea
1x tropical island
4x wasteland
14 Creatures
4x deathrite shaman
4x delver of secrets
2x young pyromancer
2x true name nemesis
2x gurmag angler
28 Spells
4x brainstorm
4x ponder
4x force of will
4x daze
3x stifle
3x gitaxian probe
1x spell pierce
1x dismember
4x lightning bolt
15 Sideboard
3x pyroblast
2x cabal therapy
1x surgical extraction
1x grafdigger's cage
1x flusterstorm
1x forked bolt
1x pithing needle
1x sulfuric vortex
1x umezawa's jitte
1x ancient grudge
1x dread of night
1x diabolic edict
Sideboard Plan
vs. death & taxes:
Out: 3 stifle, pierce, wasteland, 2 fow
Add: dread of night, grudge, 2 therapy, forked bolt, pithing needle, jitte
vs. miracles:
Out: dismember, wasteland, 4 daze (draw), 3 probe (play), 1 bolt (play)
In: 3 pyroblast, pithing needle, vortex, dread (if mentor)
vs. mirror:
Out: 4 fow, 1 probe
In: 3 pyroblast, forked bolt, jitte
vs. eldrazi
Out: 3 stifle, pierce
In: 2 therapy, grudge, edict
vs. burn
Out: dismember, wasteland, 2 stifle
In: jitte, forked bolt, edict, flusterstorm
vs. elves
Out: spell pierce, 3 stifle
In: jitte, forked bolt, pithing needle, grafdigger's cage
vs. shardless
Out: 4 fow, 1 probe, 1 pierce
In: 3 pyroblast, grudge, forked bolt, jitte
vs. u/b reanimator
Out: dismember, 4 bolt, 2 true-name, 2 stifle
In: 3 pyroblast, surgical, cage, edict, 2 therapy, flusterstorm
vs. b/r reanimator
Out: dismember, 4 bolt, 1 true-name
In: surgical, cage, edict, 2 therapy, flusterstorm
vs. Aluren
Out: 2 angler, 1 dismember, 4 daze, 1 probe
In: 3 pyroblast, forked bolt, 2 therapy, jitte, needle
vs. Ad-Nauseum Tendrils
Out: dismember, 4 bolt, 2 true-name
In: 3 pyroblast, flusterstorm, 2 therapy, needle
vs D&T: Don't cut your lands, you will need them. You also want to hit that wasteland on their Caverns and Ports as much as possible.
vs Burn: Think you're better off cutting Porbes and Therapy. You don't want to cast them for 2 life anyway most of the time becouse it will cost them one burn spell less to kill you every time you do so. Can also add one Needle form the side to hit on Lavamancer (not the best, but it's better then Probe your life away) I usually cut 2 Wastes vs Burn to make some room for creature removal from the side.
vs ANT: Don't use Needle, you have 0 targets for it. They have none main deck and none sideboard (unless you plan on hitting the fetch-lands, wich it not a plan you should be looking for I think since you use the same as them). Use Cage instead. It will stop the Past in Flames part of the deck. Also Surgical is a valid option here. Be aware of the possibility that they could use Xantid Swarms. I like to keep 2 or 3 bolts in the deck for this reason, but it's a tough cut to make.
Rest seems fine. I havn't played vs Aluren yet myself but it seems that you can use Dismember better then Forked Bolt becouse it's instant speed. Might be able to react to some trigger things or something.
I like the cut of 1 Wasteland vs Miracles, going to remember that one.
Some ANT players play "grinding station" mode with sensei's top, so pithing can be useful. However, i wouldnt play pithing vs ANT
Your board plans look good and my pathetic advice is to do whatever works for you. I'll admit, i'm not very stringent on how i side at times, it seems to always be a work/experiment in progress. Also, I usually like to keep one or two Forces in, even for match-ups like the mirror or Shardless. We are the tempo deck, after all, and it has come in damn handy numerous times. I'm an advocate of keeping a few Bolts in vs combo decks like Storm, too, to shorten the clock. You could cut a Wasteland and only bring in 2 Pyroblasts to make room. Three REB effects always feels like too many in that matchup to me.
Good luck in your tournament!
Hello, my name is Brenden McCarley and yesterday I split the finals of the BMG Extra Weekend Legacy 1.5K. After going 3-3 at my first vintage event the day prior (I played Doomsday :P) I last minute decided I wanted to play legacy on Sunday and redeem myself. I registered the following decklist
MB -60
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Pierce
1 Dismember
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
SB-15
3 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Baleful Strix
2 Pithing Needle
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Snuff Out
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Cabal Therapy
Round 1 (2-1) False Cure
I sit across from this gentleman and immediately can tell that he has been playing this deck for a while. Foil Catacombs into Invention Petal into Foil Kavu Predator. It resolves and he wins in quick fashion with an invigorate. Game 2 I have a Young Pyromancer long with a Therapy and a daze and shred his hand apart. Game 3 he plays 2 petals and a Kavu Predator on the play and I force the predator. He misses his first land drop and loses in quick fashion
Round 2 Tyler Bailey on Reid Duke Bug (2-0)
Game 1 we have Deathrites staring each-other down while I have 2 delvers crashing in for 6 a turn. I double daze his brainstorm on the final turn so he wouldn’t have mana to cast an abrupt decay he could have drawn into and we go to game 2. Game 2 consists of me bolting his DRS on 1 and then playing a pyromancer with daze backup and then 3 Gitaxian Probes. A dismember on his Baleful Strix seems to be all it takes and not even a TNN can stop my army of Elemental Tokens that the pyromancer generated.
Round 3 Reid Duke Bug (1-2)
Game 1 he has no removal and 2 Delvers put in work. Game 2 he wastelands me and I have no other land, and concede as soon as a TNN lands on my opponents board. Game 3 is an insane grindfest, where my Turn 2 Delver NEVER flips. My opponent draws lots of removal but was wastelanded off of Black mana. I eventually had 2 Gurmag Anglers in play to his TNN and Leovold. He double blocks my Fish with TNN and Leovold turning my cantrips online for a turn and putting him to 3. I never find the bolt and also got wasted off of red mana. Overall the game was well played and very very grindy.
Round 4 Samuel Delong on U/R Delver (2-0)
Game 1 we both have 2 Delvers down and mine blind flip while his will not cooperate. The game ends when I topdeck a bolt for lethal. Game 2 I land a jitte on my DRS and the game ends very quickly after that.
Round 5 Ryan Glackin on Junk Maverick (2-0)
Game 1 I make the most brutal play of the day. I lead with a Deathrite and pass. He plays a Savannah and Green Sun Zeniths for a Dryad Arbor. I wasteland his Savannah, Bolt his Arbor, and then play a Delver holding up Daze. He misses land drops and we quickly move to game 2. Game 2 I have enough permission to fight through his theats and a Delver gets there.
Round 6 Chris Brill on Sneak and Show (ID)
An ID lands us both into Top 8. If I had known he was on Sneak and Show I would have played it out but I wanted to get Burger King and listen to a bit of Wu-Tang before Top 8 started.
After Swiss I end up in 6th place, playing against my friend Michael Mapson on Painter. Mapson wants to leave to get a reasonable amount of sleep for work and we agree to chop.
Semifinals Chris Brill on Sneak and Show (2-0)
Game 1 I probe him and therapy off both of his sneak attacks. He draws air and dies to a Delver and Deathrite in quick fashion.
Game 2 I needle his Sneak Attack and pyroblast anything he plays. Therapy off his combo pieces and win.
Sneak and Show is one of my favorite matchups in legacy. They are very susceptible to Wasteland and I have so much permission as well as Therapy which is a beating against them.
Finals (Split) Legacy Champs Finalist Daniel Miller on Miracles
A split gives each of us $450. I didn’t care about the bye as much as he did and knowing the matchup was favorable on his end I decided I’d split. After chopping with Mapson I ended up being the proud owner of an Underground Sea.
Thoughts after the event: I really liked Thoughtseize, it did more in so many matchups than the winter orb that I did have in the sideboard did, really glad I made that change. I think I played well and will most likely run this list back at the next event.
Hello everyone!
i am new to this forum and new in legacy and i wanted to try it out on mtgo so i bought into grixies delver, and i have some questions that maybe you guys could help me.
I have this list:
http://i.imgur.com/5lF2g2K.jpg
i have been messing around with sideboards to see what it fits or not, and i end up putting some cards i love like chandra and painfull truths but i am not sure if they really fit, i saw a bunch of people with winter orb in the sideboard, what MU is it for? is Life from the Loam impossible to run in the sideboard in this deck? should i run +1 young pyro -1 angler or maybe +1 clique? should i change anything else?
thanks to everyone :)
How was the snapcaster for you? I usually play clique in that spot, do you think snap is better? Do you mind going into detail about your side boarding plan? I'm new too this forum and really love this deck. Thanks to all for your input!
Snapcaster was awesome for me. I feel legacy has got a bit more fair and being able to callback something like a bolt or a brainstorm and also have a creature that gives you value of some sort and also be therapy fodder is great. I didn't take exact notes but my boaridng was something like this
False Cure
In: 2 Thoughtseize 1 Therapy 1 Snuff Out 1 Spell Pierce 1 Wasteland and i think 2 Bolts.
Bug
Out: 4 Force of Will 1 Spell Pierce 2 Cabal Therapy In: 3 Pyroblast 1 Umezawa's Jitte 1 Ancient Grudge 2 Thoughtseize
U/R Delver In:1 Therapy 1 Jitte 3 Pyroblast Out:2 Force of Will 1 Dismember 2 Gitaxian Probe
Maverick Out: 4 Force In: 1 Jitte 1 Grudge 1 Snuff Out 1 Therapy (I don't like needle in the mathup)
S&S I brought in everything besides 2 strix, a jitte, a snuff out, and a grudge. Took out bolts, dismember, 2 gurmags and then made random cuts.