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Yeah I noticed that at a tournament where I played 2-0 and 2-0 in two subsequent matches:cool: . DS wrecks nearly all manabases in Legacy, which FS cannot do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuma
On the other hand, FS eats DS alive because of the threat count+equipment+sower of temptation. This is for FS the easiest matchup I've ever had IMHO.
It isn't actually the threat count (as both decks run 22-24 creatures), but Faerie Stompy's evasion, not caring about 3Sphere/CotV/Blood Moon, and SoFI that really ruin Dragon Stompy.
I play both decks regularly, and I cannot tell you how disheartening it is to know that (a.) my 8 Moon effects do little to slow the Faerie Stompy player down, (b.) my turn 1 CotV @ 1 play does NOTHING at all versus Faerie Stompy, and (c.) your creatures fly and you run equipment that hoses red. Basically, the Dragon Stompy player has anywhere from 8-16 cards of chaff game 1 (Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, 3Sphere, CotV). That's insane.
Here's hoping we get a decent blue basic landcycler in Conflux.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldariel
And FS doesn't have eight pump guys to make use of excess mana, either. The best we can do with the excess mana is equip guys the same turn we drop them or avoid shocking ourselves with Ancient Tomb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldariel
The more important difference is that FS doesn't have Blood Moon to want/need excess lands midgame. Dragon Stompy pretty much turns into basic mountain mode after the first turns, while FS continues the accelerated gameplan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
You have a valid point, as do others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
I don't know how others are getting away with mulling only once every five hands. I end having to throw back close to half my hands, and I shuffle like a mofo so it can't be that.
This deck's major weakness is the lack of consistency. You too often end up being mana screwed early on. But the concern is, if you up the mana count, you'll end up mana flooded later on, akin to Dragon Stompy. You still frequently become mana flooded mid game.
In theory, mana and consistency problems are fixable. We're doing something wrong. Maybe Signets or Sky Diamonds are the best option. Signets have the bonus of working well with Engineered Explosives, but sometimes poorly with 2 mana lands. Maybe the deck should be built around Mox Diamond rather than Chrome Mox. Or maybe it should just be playing fewer City of Traitors.
Whatever the answer, the best possible answer we could get... Fairie Spirit Guide isn't available to us. It's a shame really. Having a blue card that doubles as both a threat and a mana source is EXACTLY what this deck needs to fix it's consistency sources. You could pitch it to FoW/Chrome, play it even after a City of Traitors, or lay it down and equip it, and cycle it back to your hand with Sword of Light and Shadow. It's the perfect card, and yet, it doens't exist.
I really hope that Wizards prints some decent islandcycler in the next set at the very least.
Although Dragon Stompy runs SSG and Seething Song, I don't see how Dragon Stompy gets "flooded" mid-game. By turn 4-6, if I do draw a SSG, I don't use that as mana, I use it as a 2/2 body. The only "flood" mid-game I get is if I draw a Seething Song, and it rarely sits in my hand 100% dead. I've never really come across getting land, land, land, SSG, Seething Song, Seething Song as my draws mid-game.
Also, if they did print a blue Spirit Guide, you couldn't get it back via SoLS due it being removed from the game.
My mistake.
I had another idea. Do you think the deck could find a way to make room for Mishra's Factory. Cut a City, a Tomb, an Mox/Island/Shoreline Ranger and some business spell and there you go.
Factory doubles as both a threat and a mana source. But best of all, by playing it, STANDSTILL becomes an automatic 4x in the deck. And this in turn lets the deck draw into more threats. Hell, the possible opening of Chrome Mox, Factory, Standstill on turn one makes what might otherwise be a weak hand into a very strong one.
Honestly, just stalling the game for a few turns by laying down Standstill even without a Factory in hand helps this deck. The more turns that go by without either player drawing cards, the more readily this deck can load up on threats and play down mana sources. Given how quickly the deck is able to eat through cards, and how big the threats are, and how much of a threat density the deck has, stalling the game is probably a nice advantage for Fairie Stompy.
It definately seems worth trying. I know Standstill didn't make much sense before. But post Lorywn, when our threats have gotten better, and we play Sower of Temptation which helps us abuse Standstill even more, it definately seems worth giving another shot.
I actually think the equipment serves somewhat as a win more card. For the equipment to be busted, you need a ton of mana to be able to cast and equip it, and you need to retain a threat in play. But failing to meet those requirements is the main problem people have with the deck already. They fail to have enough mana and fail to be able to keep a threat in play through counters and removal. So while equipment is broken, I think the deck could fare okay to cut 2 equipment to make room for Standstill, a card that actually helps you recover from the lack of sufficent mana sources, or sufficent threats.
P.S: Eldariel, it seems like the opening post should get the updated list. The current opening list is still prelorywn and fails to play Pestermite, Mulldrifter, and Sowers, instead continuing to play such outdated cards as Cloud of Fairies and Thirsts. That could mislead people. We also already settled on answers for the questions you asked and have now moved onto completely different topics.
I know and agree. I've been too occupied for the last few months to rewrite it... I'll get on it at some point though!Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
So to reiterate, do you think the deck would benefit from running Standstill?
This makes the opponent slow down to your level when you have a slot start and are forced to open with Island, then Island. It lets the deck draw into more threats even when tight on mana. Hell, the possible opening of Chrome Mox, Factory, Standstill on turn one makes what might otherwise be a weak hand into a very strong one.
To maximally abuse it, you have to make room for Factory. But that's not difficult to make room for.
Honestly, just stalling the game for a few turns by laying down Standstill even without a Factory in hand helps this deck. The more turns that go by without either player drawing cards, the more readily this deck can load up on threats and play down mana sources. Given how quickly the deck is able to eat through cards, and how big the threats are, and how much of a threat density the deck has, stalling the game is probably a nice advantage for Fairie Stompy.
It definately seems worth trying. I know Standstill didn't make much sense before. But post Lorywn, when our threats have gotten better, and we play Sower of Temptation which helps us abuse Standstill even more, it definately seems worth giving another shot.
I actually think the equipment serves somewhat as a win more card. For the equipment to be busted, you need a ton of mana to be able to cast and equip it, and you need to retain a threat in play. But failing to meet those requirements is the main problem people have with the deck already. They fail to have enough mana and fail to be able to keep a threat in play through counters and removal. So while equipment is broken, I think the deck could fare okay to cut 2 equipment to make room for Standstill, a card that actually helps you recover from the lack of sufficent mana sources, or sufficent threats
@Standstill/Factory: No. Just. No.
But for the sake of post quality, let's dissect the thousands of things wrong with this.
1. Mishra's Factory can't fit in this deck without killing the consistency. Period. We need blue. 4 Tomb and 4 City is all the colorless the deck can handle. Cutting these is not an option. Cutting Islands is not an option. Therefore including Mishra's Factory is not an option.
2. Therefore, without Mishra's Factory, we have very little guarantee that many scenarios will appear where the opponent needs to break the Standstill.
3. Oh, and Standstill isn't on our mana curve, gets blocked by Chalice for 2, is weak against one of our worst matchups (Namely, anything -else- running Standstill), and just doesn't do what we need a card to do.
4. Furthermore, any situation where the opponent would have to break the Standstill and not us? Standstill is pretty win more. We don't lose with threat superiority on the board all that often, barring a boardsweeper. We lose most of our games to A. Mulligan Death, B. Not having threat superiority on the board, which Standstill makes worse by virtue of either cutting down on the threats in our deck or cutting down on the equipment that makes our threats stronger.
What was the consensus concerning Thirst for Knowledge? Has it been dropped for some combination of more critters/more Sword of Something-Tasty? Has 6x Swords of OMG-goodness! become the accepted configuration as well? That would alleviate the loss of card draw from the TfKs to an extent as well as making the fliers downright fearsome, if at a slower pace. Posts have been suggesting a 3x split between the two Swords, but I don't understand why. SOLAS seems strictly better given the ability to evoke & then return Mulldrifter every turn (as well as offset the damage from Efreet and Tombs and, you know, those pesky opponents). The ability to get back threats and/or chump-blockers also seems more relevant than an extra Shock plus one card. Furthermore, with more of the format picking up Tombstalkers & Snuff Outs and STP/O-Ring always around, pro black/white seems more relevant than pro red/blue.
Mulldrifter has definitely taken the place of TfK. I dont think I would ever go back :smile:
The 6 swords and the Sigil seem to be the best configuration I've found for the equipment. It still pays off to have the Jittes in the sideboard. I like the 3x spilt with the swords, the both have their benefits. I agree that the pro-red is definitely not as relevant as it used to be.
http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/C...Card106531.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Could be a option?
Another thing we need is speed. Though I do occasionally wonder whether Moxen couldn't be simply swapped for Islands, because Chrome Moxen hate me and I hate them. Eldariel, I assume you've actually tested this at some point?
Yea, it's been tested. The principal reason for Moxes is the turn 1 Chalice at 1 with maximum consistency, one of the principal reasons the deck just wins so many games. The second being the Drake-synergies, and the third being able to keep hands wihout 2-mana lands while still playing accelerated games. Oh, and the fourth being able to answer Lackey on the draw reasonably often (less relevant nowadays). And fifth, a great counter to all the LD in the format.Quote:
Originally Posted by Illissius
CIPT is a killer. In my mind it would be a terrible choice. We need blue but we need blue right away, not next turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
Faerie Conclave was used in the first versions of faerie stompy and then was dropped due to it being a little bit too slow and probably because there were not so many removal-packed decks as there used to be. So now the meta is faster and there're no such deck, so it is probably not the way to go. Feel free to test it and post results tho :P
On the topic of mulligans, I mulled four times in fourteen games last night. Two were in a mull to five that I ended up winning anyway, and I went 2-1 in games where I mulliganed.
Not conclusive, but the whole mulligan problem is overrated.
I have to admit this thing is a mulligan machine. You do end up mulliganing quite a bit. I guess you just got lucky. I had to mulligan to 5 often in the last weekends tournament. Though I did end up winning quite a few of those 5 card hands.
The thing I have to admire about this deck is how powerful it can be even on a 5 card hand.
I had a game last sat that went like this.
1st turn, I have a full 7 for once.
Chrome Mox, Ancient Tomb, Sea Drake.
1st turn (opponent)
Drops lotus petal, Bayou, Lion's eye Diamond, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens for 8 tokens. Ouch.
2nd turn for me.
Drop City, SoFaI, equip, swing for 8.
2nd for opponent.
Swing for 8.
3rd for me
Drop another SoFaI, equip, swing for 12, gg
Gotta love being able to race a Belcher deck.
2nd game was Chalice at 0, then Chalice at 1, later on I put out a Chalice at 3 to stop desperate ritual into Shattering Spree. (I knew the decks tech for getting out of Chalice locks). Trinket Mage goes all the way. That's just scary.
I wish they would print some card to shore up it's ability to get it's perfect mana start and this deck would be virtually unbeatable. It's soooo good against everything.