[Deck] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

Re: letting go: things change, and decks become more or less effective vs. the other decks that are played. It doesn't mean that the less effective decks aren't fun, or that they shouldn't be played. But to expect any deck to forever maintain its potency in competitive play is a little naive.

Countersliver was the first competitive Legacy deck I ever built, and I've had a ton of fun (and some success) with it. That said, I'm a fan and not a fanatic. The difference is knowing when to move on, and I think that further effort at this point is largely wasted. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I doubt it will happen without the printing of other playable slivers.

Re: Llawan, she doesn't stop their Vials, but at least bouncing their critters is a good start.

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Originally Posted by kirbysdl

Re: letting go: things change, and decks become more or less effective vs. the other decks that are played. It doesn't mean that the less effective decks aren't fun, or that they shouldn't be played. But to expect any deck to forever maintain its potency in competitive play is a little naive.

Countersliver was the first competitive Legacy deck I ever built, and I've had a ton of fun (and some success) with it. That said, I'm a fan and not a fanatic. The difference is knowing when to move on, and I think that further effort at this point is largely wasted. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I doubt it will happen without the printing of other playable slivers.

Re: Llawan, she doesn't stop their Vials, but at least bouncing their critters is a good start.

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Good points. I guess I may put the deck down for a while unless the meta becomes more zoo/aggro heavy. When that happens I will pick it up again.

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Originally Posted by Tru3z3rox

When that happens I will pick it up again.

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That's exactly where I'm at. In fact half of the deck is still in sleeves, cause I haven't needed the duals (and obviously the slivers) for anything else. =)

Maybe Talon Sliver would be good in the merfolk matchup. I noticed that in more than a few games we traded and then I CAed you out with standstill and silvergill. Talon keeps that from happening and moreover keeps me from even doing things like double-blocking for exact. Plus, while a lot of opponents might be prepared for a muscle or sinew pump, they will get blown out by first-strike. The obvious cut is the analogous Sidewinder Sliver. The deck ends up looking like:

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Winged Sliver
4 Talon Sliver
4 Mutavault
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Tundra
1 Savannah
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Tropical Island

The mana is just an educated guess, but canopy seems like a good choice.

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

Maybe Talon Sliver would be good in the merfolk matchup. I noticed that in more than a few games we traded and then I CAed you out with standstill and silvergill. Talon keeps that from happening and moreover keeps me from even doing things like double-blocking for exact. Plus, while a lot of opponents might be prepared for a muscle or sinew pump, they will get blown out by first-strike. The obvious cut is the analogous Sidewinder Sliver. The deck ends up looking like:

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Winged Sliver
4 Talon Sliver
4 Mutavault
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Tundra
1 Savannah
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Tropical Island

The mana is just an educated guess, but canopy seems like a good choice.

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Good call. I used to play Talon, but he just wasn't aggressive enough and I supposed that flanking was scarier for an opposing aggro deck, but perhaps it is time to bring him back. Would you really run him as a 4 of? I was thinking him as a 2-3 of and optimizing my control with maybe 2 spell pierce in the main? Extra blue cards to pitch to force wouldn't be a bad call either.

Yeah, that seems reasonable. I still think that Standstill is a good call, and I would try a few out if you can find room.

Over brainstorm or in addition to?

I've been currently running this list with good results...

4 Sinew Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Plated Sliver
2 Winged Sliver

4 Force Of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Swords To Plowshares
2 Living Wish
4 Preordain

2 Tundra
1 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
3 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
2 Plains
3 Island

SB
1 Mirror Entity
1 Winged Sliver
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Meddling Mage
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Null Rod
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing needle
3 Tormod's Crypt

Idon't have vials yet, but as soon as i get them i'm cutting 2 land and 2 Preordain for them. The deck seems to run fine without them but better with...

Vials are absolutely a MUST, especially since our mana base is so vulnerable.

I'm kind of new so I'm sorry if this is a bad idea that's already been covered and thrown away. How do we feel about trying to fit Dark Confidant in here somewhere? Something like this for a creature base maybe?

4x Dark Confidant
4x Muscle Sliver
4x Sinew Sliver
4x Crystalline Sliver
3x Winged Sliver

We could maybe even try to throw Thoughtseize or Duress in there somewhere too. We'd be able to sideboard things like Innocent Blood to deal with Emrakul/Progenitus. The manabase would obviously become more difficult to optimize and, like I said, sorry if this idea's already come about and been proven wrong.

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Originally Posted by Tru3z3rox

Vials are absolutely a MUST, especially since our mana base is so vulnerable.

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Agreed, and also, there is no way I'd ever play CounterSliver without Mutavault, despite it being just colourless. Savannah is also not that awesome in the deck, and more than one of each basic land seems wasteful to me.

Further, when you add Vial, I'd up the creature count to at least 20, but preferably 22-24. I find that the deck works better with a more aggressive gameplan, with more creatures.

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Originally Posted by maximumcarnage

I'm kind of new so I'm sorry if this is a bad idea that's already been covered and thrown away. How do we feel about trying to fit Dark Confidant in here somewhere? Something like this for a creature base maybe?

4x Dark Confidant
4x Muscle Sliver
4x Sinew Sliver
4x Crystalline Sliver
3x Winged Sliver

We could maybe even try to throw Thoughtseize or Duress in there somewhere too. We'd be able to sideboard things like Innocent Blood to deal with Emrakul/Progenitus. The manabase would obviously become more difficult to optimize and, like I said, sorry if this idea's already come about and been proven wrong.

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Confidant is good CA, but we have access to brainstorm and standstill already. Slivers want synergy so the more slivers the better. I think Bant slivers is the optimum, but if another list does well with differentl colors, then who am I to argue?

Greetings,

I have been experimenting with the Countersliver/Meathooks build for a little while now. I have noticed a trend as I have been reading this thread. That trend seems to point out the desire for different slivers at different times or in different match ups. Now I have noticed that some builds are trying out Eladamri's Call. The question I will pose is, "Why not focus the deck while creating a toolbox in the sideboard with Living Wish?" It would allow a bit more free space in the deck and would allow for the tutoring of the "right" sliver right when you need it. I think the following list could work.

Land 18
2 Mutavault
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Plains

Creatures 20
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
3 Plated Sliver
3 Winged Sliver
2 Mirror Entity

Spells 22
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
3 Living Wish

Sideboard 15
1 Sidewinder Sliver
1 Winged Sliver
1 Talon Sliver
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Mirror Entity
3 Spell Pierce
3 Graveyard Hate (Tormod's Crypt, Jotan Grunt, Relic, etc.)
2 Pithing Needle
2 Krosan Grip

The sideboard could be changed based on what your particular meta contains and your exact decklist. The number of Winged Slivers main deck might be a bit high, but I have found when you drop him you basically begin to roll face and if you don't need him, pitch him for a free Force of Will. I also would like to work a Sidewinder into the main but I wasn't sure if it was really worth it. I would also like to fully endorse the use of Mirror Entity. He is the bomb that this deck needs to power through in many cases. I also have considered running 1-2 Horizon Canopy but I am not sure what to cut for them and if that little extra amount of drawing s actually necessary.

I would love to hear thoughts on the inclusion of living wish, the sideboard, changes to the main deck, or basically any thoughts my fellow sliver players might have. Thanks.

Living Wish was tried and abandoned years ago. Unless you have new wish targets (you aren't using any) or the meta has changed sufficiently to make it relatively less clunky and slow (unlikely), there's probably little reason to revisit the idea now. The same could be said for the archetype overall, but I've said that recently too. I'm sure searching this thread for Living Wish will show some results. sigh

Thanks. I might have missed the suggestions in earlier posts. Further point of inquiry, if it was found that Living Wish was not worthwhile, then how do other feel about Eladamri's Call? I get that it is an instant which gives it a slight edge over Living Wish in some respects. However the Wish gives you less of a color requirement while allowing for more space to fit the tutorable targets. In both ideal cases you would have an Aether Vial with which to dump the tutored target onto the table.

@kirbysdl: I guess it might be somewhat clunky. I think however it could give you edge in some cases. Would you be opposed to running either the Call or Wish?

Just a brainstorm, may sounds a little bit crazy. Have anyone tested 1 Sliver Legion (getting with Eladamri's) and put into play with 5 counters on Vial? Slower than Mirror Entity but immune to removal (Crystalline). If I play slivers for shroud, i wanna do this until the end.

Maybe more fun to see it working than an actual finisher.

Talon Sliver works fine against aggro for me, slightly better than Sidewinder on blocking. If you don't attack until a lethal damage in one flying attack, it works.

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Originally Posted by reale

Just a brainstorm, may sounds a little bit crazy. Have anyone tested 1 Sliver Legion (getting with Eladamri's) and put into play with 5 counters on Vial? Slower than Mirror Entity but immune to removal (Crystalline). If I play slivers for shroud, i wanna do this until the end.

Maybe more fun to see it working than an actual finisher.

Talon Sliver works fine against aggro for me, slightly better than Sidewinder on blocking. If you don't attack until a lethal damage in one flying attack, it works.

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Without any Gemhide Slivers, it would be way too clunky. By the time your vial hits 5 counters, you should have already won, or at least be well in the lead. If not, then something has gone horribly awry.

I agree with you. Just trying to explore some movements to this deck, until new slivers appear.

One thing i've been struggling is mid late game against pure aggro. Sometimes me and my opponent are tied in creature's power and no one attacks until someone draws better. I need to reload my hand quickly, remove the lands from my way, as goblins does. The question is: fact or fiction may fit here? Another option? Just accept the fact and that's it?

Best regards

I'm not sure what came over me or why, but I've decided to run this at my weekly tournament this weekend. I've just always loved this deck and I guess I started to miss it.

4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
3 Plated Sliver
3 Winged Sliver

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial

4 Mutavault
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island

I don't have a concrete sideboard yet except for I know Harmonic Sliver will be a 4-of because I'm fairly certain I'll see some counterbalance and some Stoneforge packages. I'll probably fit in 2-3 Paths as well as Goblins and Merfolk are not uncommon in my meta.

Anyone have any suggestions other than "Well, you probably shouldn't play this if you want to win." lol

In your list I would replace 2 Mutavault for 2 Horizon Canopy to improve starting hands and mid/late game.

My meta requires a main deck artifact/enchantment removal. I'm using 2 Harmonic Slivers and testing 2 Eladamri's Call, to get them any time (actually, to adjust the needs while in a match - fly, pump, etc).

Standstill over Fact or Fiction is a good discussion! This deck needs to win the CA battle.