[Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

Hey, first of all, why aren't you using Vanilla Ice for the mono white scrying sheets deck you are building? Probably the best name for a deck I've ever produced :)

Anywho, do you run Kor Haven over maze of ith because it produces colorless? I ask since it is mana-intensive, plus I am getting a maze of ith soon(Haven't owned one sice 2000, really want a place to use it hehe).

We have shot down wall of shards as an idea, but what about Cathedral Membrane? Admittedly bad synergy with humility, but seems like a good wall to run before we drop Humility/Moat. Kills any reasonable sized Goyf, seems like a good deterrent to buy a turn or two before we can set up our lock(s).

As far as walls go the only one i would give any real thought into would be Wall of Omens. The draw card would be nice with top and helps out scrying sheets to thin out the deck.

I know this may sound crazy but have been playing around with the idea of cutting iso. I would play everflowing chalace as a 2 of to help speed up the deck. I see it not as a 2 drop in most cases but a better turns 4-8

I still like the way that Wall of Shards works in the deck with both Scrying Sheets and Pulse of the Fields, but there's really just not room at the moment; SFM-Batterskull fulfills a similar role but is much better on the deck's clock management. Wall of Omens is a card I've always sort of wanted to run, but it's difficult to think what it's better than.

Kor Haven is over Maze for the mana production, yes. It's pretty important because it lets you run it in a land slot; otherwise it would have to be counted as a spell. Running 23 lands + Tops + Dragons lets me not get mana screwed very often, but the utility lands help mitigate the mana flood.

@WarpWorld: If you'll see my most recent list I've cut both Scepters and the entire E-Tutor package from the maindeck, as I don't think the bullets the meta has available are powerful enough to warrant diluting the deck with situational cards and card disadvantage via Tutor.

But as a control list is by its nature reactive to a metagame, I can only speak for metas similar to mine, which is reflective of the makeup of most SCG Open tournaments; a lot of good stuff decks, a lot of blue based aggro-control, an increasing amount of blade control and delver burn, a smattering of combo, with the best being reanimator.

The core of the deck I would identify as;

4 Scrying Sheets
15 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Kor Haven

4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Scroll Rack

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Wrath of God

With other cards that should be considered in the context of your meta including:

Other lands:

Mistveil Plains (With E Dragon)
Darksteel Citadel (With E. Tutor)
Karakas
Urza's Factory
Mouth of Ronom
Dust Bowl

More removal;

Path to Exile
Condemn (with Pulse of the Fields)
Judge Unworthy
Runed Halo
Wing Shards
Exile
Oblivion Ring
Wrath of God
Faith's Fetters
Nevinyrral's Disk
Rout
Akroma's Vengeance
Austere Command
Planar Cleansing

Utility and Such:
Tithe
Argivian Find
Pithing Needle
Abeyance
Wall of Omens
Wall of Shards
Coldsteel Heart
Pulse of the Fields
Humility
Enlightened Tutor
+ these:
Tormod's Crypt
Ivory Tower
Relic of Progenitus
Ensnaring Bridge
Aura of Silence
Nevermore
Story Circle
Moat
Gauntlet of Power
Isochron Scepter
(with)
Orim's Chant

Kill conditions:
Eternal Dragon
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Gideon Jura
Decree of Justice
White Sun's Zenith
Martial Coup
Sacred Mesa
Stoneforge Mystic
+
Batterskull
(w/ E Tutor:)
Grindstone
+
Painter's Servant
Endless Horizons
+
Goblin Charbelcher

Always an interesting read. I agree with many choices.

SFM saddens me (even if it may be the correct evolution of the deck).

SFM killed the 'dedicated control' aspect of Landstill - Stoneblade is Landstill w/tempo, converting what was a dedicated control deck to an aggro-control deck. SFM is going to do the same to this deck. I really think honest development will push this deck into being an aggro-control deck (again, that makes me sad). I think Wrath will eventually come out of the deck, and Mother of Runes (it really is 'all that and a bag of chips' in white-heavy aggro-control running SFM) will come in, maybe Jitte and some manlands come in, and so on and so forth.

That isn't to say this will become Death and Taxes. This deck will perhaps still play Path to Exile (which is an underrated card, but doesn't play nice within Waste/Port.dec) and it won't worry about cute shit/tricks.

Please, tell me why I am wrong - I want to be wrong about this. I love dedicated control decks.


peace,
4eak

It saddens me as well that Humility isn't in the 60 anymore. I love that card but sometimes, you just have to let go and move on.

I think a lot of the cards in the deck just work better over many turns. Planeswalkers are pretty powerful, for instance, but they're a fuckton more powerful in a deck that grinds you out than in one that's trying to sneak in quick kills. Often in Zoo, even Maverick, Elspeth is just a one turn pump + evasion spell, basically a more expensive Mighty Leap. In a control deck the repeatable use of planeswalkers really adds up a lot more quickly. There are actual rewards to a strategy of delay until you get to a point in the game where you can dominate the board state, the questions are how best to delay and how to best win once one has gotten there.

And actually I've been wavering a bit on SFM-Batterskull lately simply because the meta is so incredibly well prepared for her, and people already know how to play against her (although the advantages of re-usability in the late game also apply to equipment).

But as I say, there's really no sixty to a good control deck; there's a core and then there are rotating slots that depend on the meta. This can be itself frustrating since any changes have to be tweaked and tested and fine-tuned. My core is, at the moment:

15 Snow-covered Plains
4 Scrying Sheets
2 Kor Haven
1 Karakas
1 Mistveil Plains

3 Eternal Dragon

4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Scroll Rack

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
3 Wrath of God

3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Decree of Justice

But the remaining 14 slots could look a lot of different ways. In a very aggro meta it might look like this;

2 Path to Exile
4 Wall of Shards
3 Pulse of the Fields
2 Wing Shards
3 Faith's Fetters

In a very combo and control oriented meta, it might look more like;

1 Dust Bowl
3 Pithing Needle
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Batterskull
2 Humility
1 Decree of Justice

Conversely, if I were expecting a lot of goodstuff and aggro-control decks, it might be more like;

1 Path to Exile
3 Abeyance
2 Wing Shards
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Batterskull
2 Gideon Jura

Even the Disk configuration I found to be pretty good against a number of decks, obvious examples being Maverick, Affinity, Enchantress, and even RUG-Counterbalance.

Don't get too married to a given list, it should really be tailored to the matchups you expect. Scepters + Chants and the E Tutor package may be perfectly correct in a lot of metas; against non-blue decks that strategy is generally a lot better, or where people aren't running Counterbalance or artifact hate out of the board.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in my opinion:

Mono White Control has two problems:
1) Combo
2) Blue control (Counterspell + Jace TMS/other draw)
But is very good at beating aggro / aggro-control (if you run the appropriate cards)

However, neither do you solve any of those problems, nor do you focus on white's strengths.

If you want to focus on white's strength (beating aggro, aggro-control), then there is actually no reason not to run the full playset of 4 PtE and more board-sweepers like WoG/Humility/other sweeper.

If you want to have slight chance against Blue Control, I'd say Decree of Justice is your best bet, so max them out.

EDIT:
my suggestion:

// 26
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
15 Plain
4 Chrome Mox
1 Eternal Dragon

// 4
4 Sensei's Divining Top

// 15
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Path to Exile
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Wrath of God

// 15
4 Decree of Justice
4 Elspeth Knight Errant
4 Humility
3 Pulse of the Fields

SB:
4 Tomord's Crypt
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Runed Halo

Counterspells + Jace I'm not particularly worried about by themselves. The MWC vs. blue-based control matchup is pretty list-specific, and can swing wildly based on a few cards' difference either way. Sticking a Top or even better, a Scroll Rack is pretty important; DoJ and Planeswalkers are crucial cards, and if they're not running white Eternal Dragon is a beating (if they are it's okay, but you're less likely to actually cast it then and instead want to try and net cards off of Scroll Rack.)

Jace or Counterbalance are generally the scariest cards to see in this matchup (excepting maybe a Riptide Lab with Spellstutter Sprite), but nothing's really game ending. Patience is pretty key; you're going to see a lot of cards and make a lot of decisions over the course of a few thirty turn games, and keeping aware of all your options is important. Often these matches are won or lost based on seemingly small mistakes, like tapping the wrong lands, missing a turn you should have returned Dragon, or playing around counters too extensively (it helps that most lists run few card-disadvantage-free hard counters.)

DoJ is one of the best cards in these matchups, but it's hardly a case of giving you a "slight chance."

Otherwise your list, Iron Buddha, honestly seems like a giant step backwards. Chrome Mox seems like a completely unnecessary way to shoot yourself in the foot, and I'm not sure why you want to drop an actual card advantage engine in Scrying Sheets for a bunch of fetchlands. You're also losing massively powerful cards like Scroll Rack and SFM to jam in excessive copies of cards like Elspeth and Humility, creating a very clunky and top heavy mana curve- Hell, you have eleven cards that cost four mana, not counting the four DoJs.

To defend my list:

I think you don't win matchups through CA (Scrying Sheets), but rather through a simple and big Decree of Justice or through a Humility + Humility-support.

Excessive 4cc cards are supposed to be imprinted by Chrome Mox. My manabase is Wasteland-immune, so the 4c bombs are one turn faster than in a Scrying sheets version. If a humility is in play, you don't need CA anymore, a single Elspeth/DoJ/PotF is enough to end the game.

I agree that SFM is a very powerful card. So why do I eschew it?
1. Because it has no interaction with Humility.
2. the Humility-route is also very good
3. Pulse of the Fields already gives me a lifegain source
4. to diversify the format.

Also, why don't you run any maindeck artefact/enchantment removal?

Scrying Sheets + Top/Rack lets you continually make land drops while drawing business; in other words, it lets you play plenty of lands to make DoJ powerful, while enabling you to survive long enough to get there. In other words, Scrying Sheets is exactly the type of card you should want to make DoJ work. It also gives you much more game against blue-based control decks than you would have otherwise; of course if you cut all your card advantage for card disadvantage, it will seem to you that blue-based control decks are an unwinnable matchup!

If it's so important to accelerate to a turn 3 Wrath or Humility in your meta, it would be much better to run Coldsteel Heart, since it doesn't cost card advantage and is in fact often a free card off of Scrying Sheets. Yet I don't recommend even this because the tempo of control is slowing your opponents' game plan down; and if your StPs and other early drops are useless for this it's highly doubtful that a Wrath or Humility will do much better.

SFM also curves pretty well into Humility; if you get a Batterskull beforehand, drop it into play and then cast Humility it's a 5/5 instead of a 4/4.

Also I do, 2 O-Ring and 2 Faith's Fetters (the latter of which doesn't deal with all problem permanents, but generally the ones I care most about like equipment and utility lands).

So I've been playing enchantress lately, and have been neglecting Quinn. Recently at a Legacy tournament I played Solitaire at people, and lent my friend Quinn. Now my compatriot had seen this deck a little (I pull kept it boxed up, our group is pretty casual), but had never pilotedit(or any painter/stone), a last second audible. He took second(behind me natch). The deck really takes people by surprise, they think Stax, and when it isn't Stax, they generally don't know what's coming, at least in my Meta.

This is what I would run tomorrow:


Quinn, The Eskimo A.K.A Vanilla Ice by TIBA

18 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Scrying Sheets

3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Isochron Scepter
2 Grindstone
2 Painter's Servant(really need to get these altered to Vanilla Ice)

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Silence
3 Wrath of God
2 Day of Judgement
3 Orim's chant
3 Argivian Find

1 Moat
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Humility


Finally got my moat, signed too! I see you stopped running it a while back, I don't feel like combing for the reasoning so let me know what you think. I will probably run four tops, but only have three at the moment. Plus I really hate seeing more than one, as I don't have any shuffle effects save for tutor. I have considered running only 1 of each combo piece, but if one servant gets sent farming I would be sad. I will continue to sing the praises of Argivian Find, I was literally never pissed to see it in any game it appeared, and missed it when I didn't have it. Make me discard a combo piece? Force it? Grip it? I get to try again. Want to get a little more mileage out of
your seals of cleansing? These is a good reason you can't play with 3 Regrowth, but I can for half of my deck with Find. Try it.

I think the biggest problem is not having a shuffle effect, but I don't really like Dragon...Decree of Justice?

Sideboard changes for the meta, a couple card choice thoughts though:

Grafdigger's Cage- I haven't got a chance to play it much, is anyone finding it a better hoser than the other standbys in practice?

Curse of Exhaustion- This seems to be the logical card to side in for Moat against combo.

Jester's Cap- For Emakrul/Progen, though they run 4 generally, so there has to be something better here.

Wing Shards- I still love this against aggro when I Silence them and they attack or bolt me in response or whatever. TIBA, did I convert you on this one? I seem to remember you being somewhat tepid about the card when I brought it up many pages ago.

Is a deck like this still playable? I fell out of the loop incredibly fast once school started back up. Also can someone give a quick crash course on how to properly scroll rack? I've never really played the card and it seems like an easy one to totally fuck up.

I've been off and on on Wing Shards. I mean the biggest problem is how in flux the metagame has been recently. When the makeup of the fundamental strategies of the decks in the meta keep changing it's hard to know how to build a pure control deck. With the amount of combo showing up again recently it's probably better to run the Chant-Stick and Painter-Stone combos again, but that build is so cold to Counterbalance it's not even funny.

Scroll Rack should definitely be in any build of the deck. Mostly you just put your tops away with it and then start stacking draws and digging. The main things to keep in mind are to stack for Sheets, obviously, and to keep a replacement Top effect near the top couple cards in case they destroy Scroll Rack. Beyond that it's mostly dig, or get rid of bad cards and shuffle. It's a very strong reason to run Eternal Dragons (which might be necessary anyway in the combo versions as an answer to Rug Counterblanace.)

<- Not sold on Batterskull/SFM. It is quite strong, but I don't find it strong enough to warrant tying down six slots (or more!). There are too many different decks that need to be answered to tie down ten percent of the deck that doesn't do a whole lot for me. Am I totally wrong here?

I agree with Fetters over o-ring. An unchecked riptide lab is terrible.

Abeyance in response to a snapcaster mage is my new favorite thing in the world. I can't do it enough.

In the current meta game I believe that this deck is still playable in the current meta game. I think if you understand the treats on the otherside of the table the blanket protection such as runed halos and o-ring/fetters plus the wide veriety of anti-creature cards this deck has a great chance.

The only deck that I have found is a big problem for me is RUG tempo/Delver RUG other than that the meta game seems fine for this deck.

I agree. I haven't tested this deck in a while but I dont mind picking it up again.

A resolved Humility against Maverick is just awesome.

The deck also gained Grafdigger's Cage. I mean a singleton on the main as a Tutor target is pretty sweet.

Also, the deck can run its own Batterskull. It doesn't need Stoneforge Mystic (since it won't work under an active Humility while the other can).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WarpWorld

In the current meta game I believe that this deck is still playable in the current meta game. I think if you understand the treats on the otherside of the table the blanket protection such as runed halos and o-ring/fetters plus the wide veriety of anti-creature cards this deck has a great chance.

The only deck that I have found is a big problem for me is RUG tempo/Delver RUG other than that the meta game seems fine for this deck.

---

Wow !
I didn't expect to post since I just lost myself on this thread and never played with the deck. But is this real ? A monocolor control deck loosing against RUG delver, how is that possible. Just running a redundancy of removals should be enough. I know mongoose has shroud but you can also play Porphyry Nodes or just relic of progenitus graveyards until you can play your 4 mana bombs/wraths through daze and pierce.White also has the best weapons against burn.
RUG has a pretty strong presence right now so all decks have to prepare the match-up. Loosing against it with monowhite control seems unbelievable.

You'll lose to it because they will stock up on permission as you drop your bombs. Protecting their Goyf and Moongeese.

How can they beat 4 path to exile + 4 nodes ? They only run 4 fow.

Or even beat caltrops + relic of progenitus, I don't know but you must have millions of possible answers.

Would you seriously run 4 Nodes and Caltrops? I do see your point, we just have to outplay Canadian and rely on all the answers we can.

As for answers, while Paint-Stone combo can win out of nowhere, I feel that it's just too vulnerable. It's a two card combo that does little to no effect by themselves.
I seriously think Elspeth 1 and Batterskull are the way to go.

I actually want to playtest with this deck again. Since its worst nemesis (CounterTop) is out of the picture. While Jace can still be a problem, I think the deck has the capability to go toe to toe against it.

Also, there's Canadian and Blue-based control will have more than FoW as their permission spell.