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Note that against a competent opponent the Raiders will even die if you draw an instant or SSG. They'll just burn him during your upkeep and as soon as you draw it will die state-based without you having the chance to do anything against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by lonelybaritone
Okay so the list I came up with after discussing with you all the modifications I should make to the deck is as follows:
Lands
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
Beaters
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
3 Arc-Slogger
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
2 Taurean Mauler
Mana Accelarators
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Seething Song
4 Chrome Mox
Moon Effects:
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Blood Moon
Equipment
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
Other Disablers
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
Sideboard
1 Blood Moon
3 Sulfur Elemental
4 Pyroclasm
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle
I kept the Sulfur Elemental in the sideboard because I know for a fact that in my meta there is at least one Angel stompy deck, and the Sulfur Elemental is my only answer to that deck. So I would like to have it available to me to beat that deck down. Even if in all likely hood the Sulfur Elemental is going to get swords'ed the instant it hits play.
What else do you know about your general metagame? All we know is that you have a lot of Burn, and on the basis of that it doesn't seem a great idea to cut Jitte while keeping 3 Blood Moons.
Anarchy is a cheap uncommon that makes Angel Stompy cry for its mommy, and also get you out of some VERY tight spots (Humility, Worship, CoP: Red). Play that over Sulfur Elemental, who all too often makes Silver Knight only more of a bitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathal83
Also, play four frickin' Needles in the SB.
Why is everyone playing pyroclasm in their boards? I ran Pyrokenisis in my build (0 equipment, 3 Main sphere, 8 moons, blah blah blah I'm Mr. Burns), and the only reason I'd've wanted anything else was Warrens tokens from TES (which I scooped to because Bryant promised me anal).
There is also a surplus of Threshold in the meta, as well as other decks that use non-basic lands. It seems people like to rotate. One week they will be playing Threshold, the next week they will be playing burn. Still there are a few people who regularly play Threshold each and every week regardless of the burn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
I like the idea of the Anarchy, I will have to give that a try.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
As for the needles, I do plan to get a play set, so I can mess around with them and decide whether 4 is actually necessary or not. However for the moment the only card that is optional for taking out of the sideboard, is the fourth moon, and I am actually considering taking it out in favor of a Trinisphere anyways.
The main reason I run Pyroclasm in my meta is because one of the other decks people seem apt to run in my meta is Goblins, and also Goblin Storm in some cases. So I am inclined to play cards that can eliminate those cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by lonelybaritone
Pyroclasm is mainly a board sweeper. Most aggro decks run creatures that have 3 or less toughness with cheap mana costs for fast plays. So when that card is played, you pretty much kill all to nearly all their guys for the same cheap price those people would have done to play their guys in the following turns.Quote:
Originally Posted by lonelybaritone
After talking it over with a friend I have decided to add the Anarchies, that is a good choice, and I like it. However I have also decided not to add a fourth Pithing Needle. Instead I am going to be running a 4th Trinisphere in the sideboard, for those games against burn where 4 trinispheres just PWN ass.
If your meta is mostly burn and Threshold, then yeah, Trinisphere sounds like a great card to run maindeck. However, like Nihil said, there's no way you should be running maindeck Blood Moons over Jittes if you fear Burn. Even without the 7 Moon effects in the maindeck, you should stomp Threshold.
From the last list you posted, I'd probably go -3 Moon, +2 Jitte, +1 Mauler. You could cut the Sulfur Elementals in the board for Anarchies, and maybe drop the Pyroclasms for Blood Moons if you feel the need. I don't think Clasm is absolutely necessary, but you know your meta better than I.
Thanks for the suggestion, I decided to take it... however I am going to keep the 3 extra moons, and one extra pithing needle on hand so that if I need to prepare for an unknown meta, I have them available to me (for example if I ever am able to go to the Legacy World Championship or something of that nature)....Quote:
Originally Posted by b4r0n
Any Ichorid/Loam players in your area? Those are pretty much the only matchups you'd want Tormod's Crypt against (and Ichorid is still winnable with MD Trinispheres + SB Clasms). I figured I'd just mention it since Loam is traditionally nonexistent overseas.
@Pyrokinesis/Pyroclasm: This choice is pretty straightforward: Pyrokinesis is great against Goblins and assorted aggro while mediocre vs. Empty the Warrens, Pyroclasm is great against Goblins and Empty the Warrens while mediocre vs. assorted aggro.
Pyroclasm doesn't really do anything against Ichorid. Killing off some Zombie tokens is almost never a problem for the Ichorid player, and if they keep their combo in game 2 they will 'combo off' in your face with Flame-Kin Zaelot and you will never get the chance to play Pyroclasm (and they probably will at least consider leaving Dread Return in because Troll is strong against DS, so they will consider FKZ as well I guess). Alternatively, Ichorid kan go for an insane/insane Troll, and they can win with Ichorids which are immune to clasms.
Clasm is only ever useful I think when you can hit a Putrid Imp when that's their only discard outlet, or when they have to go all in with a couple of Zombies because they're dredging crap or absolutely not getting what they want. Or, if you happen to hit the 2 Moeba's when he was waiting on a third creature; random stuff like that.
And while Tormod's Crypt seems like a house against Ichorid, it's quite easy to play around. Crypt is annoying but unfortunately not the end of the world. Of course, if you have them, you obviously side them in.
As a DS player you have so, so many weapons against Ichorid:turn 1 Moon or Trinisphere, and Chalice for 1, Tormod's Crypt. Alternatively, if you have Trini and fear LED, dropping Chalice 0 (before the Trini obviously) is also a good play. Those will slow Ichorid down massively; unless they hit a quick Ray of Revelation (and have mana to support that, especially when they're facing down a 3Sphere) they're pretty much cooked. Ichorid will side those in. You as a DS player can actually chose how much hate to side in, there's just so much hate you have. Moon effects, Trinism Chalice, Crypt, all work decent to very well against Ichorid to the extent that I think maybe even Tormod's Crypt might be overkill, so I would, I think, never side in Clasms against an Ichorid deck. I've seen a lot of Devastating Dreams in the past an laughed at those as well. But you don't hear me laughing at Trinisphere with Chalice at 1.
On the Maulers: I still have a very difficult time deciding what to run, Sulfur or Mauler. While both have persuasive arguments on their side, I have always chosen Sulfur in the past. I have a set of Maulers but haven't really used them up to now.
I was wondering, if you play Mauler, obviously running it as a four off is a bad idea. But I run Sulfur as a four off and don't want to split 2/2 as I hate making the deck more 'inconsistent' (inconsistent in a randomish way, not in a mana-screw or no-threat-screw way per-se). So how does the decklist change? What are the creature numbers you run when you add Mauler?
Yes, there is at least one Ichorid deck in my area, not sure about Aggro-Loam though. However there is a person who has played a Enduring Ideal deck, and I figure that a Tormod's Crypt would be able to help with that match up if it is timed properly....Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
And why is mauler a bad idea as a four-off?
I think it should be a 4-of if you choose to run it in the first place.
(the list chances so that you run only 2 jitte, and no trini. 24 threat.)
Yeah, I thought the Mauler must be a 4 off...
After long thinking, I decided to put Trinisphere in the Board, to play more Critters.
My new list looks like the following:
10 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Arc-Slogger
4 Taurean Mauler
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
2 Umezawa's Jitte
SB:
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Pithing Needle
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Trinisphere
MfG YawG
Neither is true. Since multiple Maulers have no particular synergy or dissynergy with each other, the quality of the Maulers you draw is unaffected by whether you run a singleton or a playset.Quote:
Originally Posted by deviant
Completely agree. Pyrokinesis is also good in the mirror, if that's a relevant consideration. Maybe that's included under "assorted aggro," but it's worth pointing out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
The reason that Mauler is often not a 4-of is because it's your weakest beater. Thus, it's the easiest slot to cut from in order to make room for more relevant cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by deviant
I see it this way: you want to play mauler in the first few turns, or you'd rather not even draw him. He's an awful topdeck. So if you want to have it asap, you play the maximum number. If you do not choose to go the 24 threat way, you should consider Sulfurs. They are as good as they are, whether you play them on your 3rd or your 7th turn.
Maulers are at their best on your ~2nd turn.
And even if you choose to go to 24 threat, which I recommend, you should test which one you like better. I'm still with sulfur, he is the better man in my meta. (a lot of control) If you have a lot of ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh and goblins, look at mauler.
Oh! And the same with moons - you want one asap, so you play 8 to make sure this is more likely to happen.
Seriously though, play what you like - it's not like I actually care if you choose to not run moons, cut sloggers, rpd's and raiders, run the Rakromas and md a playset of trinispheres. And then play a one-of Mauler.
Practically everything has been addressed for this deck, read the thread. And if EVE does not present us with a very good 2R creature, or something ridiculous enough to challenge our already ludicrous beaters, there will be nothing new to discuss.
I hear this argument all the time, and it never gets any less wrong. Assuming a card has neither synergy nor dissynergy with other copies of itself (this is important!), when you play twice as many copies of it, you will double both the times when it's awesome and the times where it's awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by deviant
To put it in another, more intuitive way: the quality of that single Taurean Mauler you peel off the top on turn X is not affected by whether there are 0 or 3 copies left in the rest of your library.
(Unrelated aside: Mauler isn't an 'awful' topdeck. If your opponent is at 3 life, is attacking with all of his creatures each turn, and either has no instant removal or is sitting on counterspells, then yes, Sulfur Elemental is better. Otherwise, Mauler is just as useless, just as useful, or better.)
anyone try ashenmoor liege? hes a bit expensive 1 (b/r)(b/r)(b/r). but his ability to drain the opponent for 4 if they target him seems a bit strong in this with a few equipment on him
Uncastable unless under moon = unplayable.
Also; in a deck that discards, pitches to mox etc. you can easily throw away the "excessive" copies.
Also; you really don't want to cast three blood moons either - you still play ~8. Because you want to assure that you can play them early.