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Oh, we are talking about different lists. The list posted in this thread is from a GPT the week before GP Chicago. I was talking about my actual GP Chicago list that needs 4 Lotus Petal to support Ad Nauseam maindeck (1 Ad Nauseam, 2 Doomsday, 2 Infernal Tutor, 1 Meditate, 1 Ill-Gotten Gains, 1 Tendrils of Agony, 4 Mystical Tutor).
I don't know if you're still running it, but I've mostly been unhappy with the Pyroblast versions of the deck. I'm working on going back to a 4 Chant version, as the inability to crack LED whenever I want annoys me to a great extent.
In which matchups would you specifically prefer the Pyroblast version?
For the record, I'm still running this:
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [R] Tundra
1 [BD] Island (3)
1 [7E] Swamp (3)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [U] Tropical Island
1 [U] Volcanic Island
2 [A] Underground Sea
1 [U] Scrubland
// Spells
1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [TSP] Wipe Away
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
4 [LRW] Ponder
4 [WL] Doomsday
1 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [ARE] Duress
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [6E] Mystical Tutor
1 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
1 [OV] Meditate
4 [IA] Dark Ritual
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [VI] Helm of Awakening
SB: 1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 1 [PS] Rushing River
SB: 1 [TSP] Wipe Away
SB: 1 [TSP] Grapeshot
SB: 1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 [MR] Plains (4)
You may want to use a couple extra petals in the maindeck if you want the Ad Nauseam plan to go smoother after sideboarding.
Also I only run 3x Doomsdays with an IT in the main instead. I only use 3x Ponders, which is a slot that could be another Petal. I never need Ad Nauseam (in fact I only play ANT to have fun, not competitively) in this list because if I need a fast win I just IGG.
I'm doing poorly against Affinity. I don't understand it, but this list runs 4 Duress and 4 Mana Leak (I run 4 Duress/4 Pyroblast/2 Chant/1 Wipe Away MD), and always hits a turn 4 win, sometimes turn 3. Any suggestions? I have Rebuild and Serenity, but sometimes I just can't find one fast enough. When I do find one of them, I often had to put to many resources into finding it, which in turn allows them to rebuild after my Rebuild and still win.
I was initially playing ANT, but that much control (he hits disruption like his deck is stacked. EVERY time.)has made me go back to DDFT.
Pce,
--DC
It seems to me like Rebuild is subpar against a deck that can play several spells for free. Even worse if they had tombs on the board. I guess it's a lot more useful against Prision, where you get time to sculpt your hand and Rebuild eot into a win.
Serenity, on the other hand, really seems like it could work if your opponent doesnt turn his board into counters on a manland. Are you having the same problem when you play Serenity? How often do it get Leaked or Duressed away?
It plays perfect for him:
If I get Serenity in my opening hand, it's duressed away. If I have to cantrip into it, it gets leaked. I even tried bluffing the combo to get him to counter my Ad Nauseam so I could get him to tap out and go LED, LED, IT into the IGG win, but it didn't work. Ad Nauseam resolved, drew a few cards to find more disruption, (turn 3, second card I hit was a duress so I stopped), I was at like 9 life when i stopped (drew a few cards, didn't need anything). I played Duress, he in responsed me by vialing in a Ravager, saccing off 4 artifacts with a Disciple in play and then blasted me. After I lost, he showed me the leak in his hand. Stupid.
Pce,
--DC
I don't think lucky Raffinity with Duress and Mana Leak should be your concern. If the matchup is unwinnable, who cares?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87
I really like the pblast lists.
Here my latest list:
// Lands
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [U] Volcanic Island
1 [UNH] Island
1 [UNH] Plains / Mountain
1 [UNH] Swamp
1 [U] Badlands
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [U] Underground Sea
1 [U] Scrubland
1 [U] Tundra
// Spells
1 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [LRW] Ponder
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
1 [TE] Meditate
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [TE] Dark Ritual
4 [MI] Mystical Tutor
4 [US] Duress
4 [WL] Doomsday
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
3 [TO] Cabal Ritual
1 [PS] Rushing River
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TE] Lotus Petal
SB: 1 [TO] Cabal Ritual
SB: 1 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 [TSP] Grapeshot
SB: 1 [VI] Helm of Awakening
SB: 1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
SB: 4 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [UL] Rebuild
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [TSP] Wipe Away
Imo the worst MU is Fae Fish feat CB-Top Duress cant hit Counter and "Discard" Faeries and some lists play additional Discard like Seize.
I like to win. Also, I play the guy fairly often. I could hose him and make him want to change lists (and he would, he's pretty gullible that way), but that's dirty pool.Quote:
Originally Posted by matelml
Pce,
--DC
If you want to hose the lucky affinity player board Cabal Rits and Null Rods. Board out LED for Cabal Rits to go to something like 4 Dark Rit, 4 Cabal Rit, 1 Rain of Filth postboard and then after dropping Null Rod you should have plenty of time to build Chant + an IGG pile.
I don't want to, but I may have to. I'm getting bored with all of this losing shenanigans.
Rain of Filth is svg tech. I like that. Gets threshold for Cabal Rit + Mana Ramp. Cute.
Pce,
--DC
So guys,
I got my playsets of Mire and Delta because i wanted to build a consistent combo. I used to play TES for 2 months, but eventually i decided to try seomthing new, and which could beat Blue based deck more consistenlty, and, at the same time, not to lose to itself because of drawing shit/not having an engine to shuffle back dead cards/ get randomly screwed by wasteland/blood moon/argothian wurn (well, not this last).
I saw Doomsday, and opted to test it. After some matches on MWS, i felt this deck is great, can exploit a greater numer of synergies between the single pieces ( top+ led is something really awesome, and the presence of fetches allows to a costant ramp towards sculpting the perfect hand), but i noticed that this deck makes an extreme fatigue to reach a very early win ( i mean, having played TES, if i won on turn 4-5 or after i considered it to be a semi failure -except blue decks, obv-, while with this deck, if i manage to go off on turn 4, i considered it a very lucky episode). I absolutely know that this deck, unloike the others, isn't at all about speed but about how you manage to go through all the hate given by blue based deck, but the point is that none of all the decks being ran in legacy are blue, so sometimes i miss that harsh fuel of speed given by TES or ANT.
Against aggro, boros or burn, for example ( not to mention ichorid), these Combos (TES in particular) could power up an indisturbate win even before they could do anything serious at you, like putting you down on life or dropping canonist / random hate bear/ chalices ecc..
I know that these obstacles may be circumvent by DDay too, but i felt like requiring all that much of cards ( a cantrip or a top, 5-6 mana at least) may not always happen, and these matchuos are a battle of time considering that the opponent drops massive quantities of dmg each turn and aims to kill you as fast as possible.
Ah, for instance, i built the Pyroblasts version Emidln posted some pages ago, the one pointed to be played at the Gp:chicago. I felt quite comfortable with it, even if i have to ask him a question: did you ever wanted more Chants MD ? i mean, having 1 chant seems low, since it is the best protection against the non-hardcounter blue spells ( i refer to Spell Snare, Stifles, and so), while Duress, despites being great and can be played turns before, doesn't eat in one shot. Moreover, chant could be somehow effective in slowing the non blue decks playing threats as a sorcery speed since g1 ( i'm thinking to black based and aggro loam ), while we carry on sculpting the combo hand.
Of course there is the trasformational sideboard, but i felt the main cards which compose a DDay shell not to be optmized to be transformed into an ANT: what i mean is, i don't know if ANt lists run 4 tops, but in these cases i'd rather have more accels to fuel an early AN than 4 tops, and also, the lack of chrome mox may be a problem after Nauseam itself, because of the impossibility to build mana back from nothing.
(In any case, consider these words as speaken by a TES player, i could have said a lot of bullshits, but i' m just trying to expose my considerations).
So, my questions would be: is there a way to configure this deck with a greater number of Chants (i'm playing 2 atm) without destabilizing tha manabase into too much duals, keeping also the MD pyroblasts which are damnly good against Blue, and yet to speed it up a bit if i expect a meta not only made by Cb.decs? And furthermore, is green really needed maindeck? i'm playing 4 colours and it tunes nice for me, even if i admit that the double U for wipeaway to bounce pesky things (Cb is the first, ofc) may matter.
I post you my list, feel free to say anything you want.
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [U] Underground Sea
1 [B] Scrubland
1 [A] Badlands
1 [R] Volcanic Island
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Island
2 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp ( i predict Dragon Stomp will be played more and more after some recent successes, plus wasteland is something i meet really often..)
// Spells
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
2 [IA] Pyroblast
1 [TSP] Wipe Away
3 [WL] Doomsday
3 [TE] Lotus Petal
2 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [MI] Mystical Tutor
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [IA] Dark Ritual
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [LRW] Ponder
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [US] Duress
2 [PS] Orim's Chant
1 [TE] Meditate
1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [TSP] Wipe Away
SB: 1 [TE] Lotus Petal
SB: 2 [TO] Cabal Ritual
SB: 1 [VI] Helm of Awakening
SB: 1 [CS] Snow-Covered Mountain
SB: 1 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
I added a maindeck Infernal Tutor because i wanted to exploit LEDs in another way, because i had the feeling that in this deck they give their best only when you're going to do DD's shenanigans, while for the rest, they 're not used worthy. Also, being able to go It+IGG loops is an option i didn't want to renounce to. I also cut 1 doomsday because i felt that the deck could dig for them enough consistently, and made room for the single IT instead of the 4th one.
The sideboard is quite well Emidln's the same, even if i'm pondering whether or not cut AN completely. I'll surely miss that bomb, but perhaps is not suited for thiis maindeck configuration of cantrips and accels. Plus, DD is such a safety that i can't renounce to it anymore. Better to leave AN to more etreme combos..
One last question to Emidln: have you tested this version of DD (with pyroblasts) against the aforementioned non-blue decks ? how was it, especially against pikulas , gobbos and ichorids? do you feel the lack of "brutal" speed may cause you to suffer too much dedicated discard/ fast crazy attacks?
Thank you a lot for your patience, and for having hold on this deck. I knew some day i would have played it :smile:
Hello,
I went 4-1 this weekend with the same list as last time (Post #1055) except for -1 Cabal Ritual +1 Ponder maindeck.
My matchups were:
Trainwreck/MBC -> 2:0
Canadian Threshhold -> 2:0
4c Threshhold-Pile without CB -> 2:1
Goblins -> 2:1
ITF (same guy :/) -> 0:2
I've learned to love the deck more and more, plus I'm getting more confident and comfortable playing it.
The transformal Sideboard works perfectly (both ways).
@ Piceli89:
Imo one Doomsday maindeck is enough, since you've got a lot of ways to find it and you don't necessarily need it during the first turns of setting up your game. If you're missing the explosiveness of the deck, remove some DDs and add ITs and an Ad Nauseam maindeck.
You must be used to being low on lands (since you played TES), but how is the deck performing with only 15 lands?
If you are playing Doomsday, the idea would be that you are *probably* playing in a heavy blue environment. Doomsday is great against control, but if it gets countered, which it does happen, you would in theory want another one because they are pretty easy to set up with as little mana-ramp they need.
Pce,
--DC
Thing is that, if you aren't sure wether they have a counter or not, you probably won't go for Doomsday without enough protection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Cynic87
If I was the control player, I wouldn't even counter Doomsday, I think.
The combo player should have less outs for counters after Doomsday resolved.
If I was playing control, I'd counter the drawspell that's used post-DD.
That's exactly my point.
Doomsday is just not a card like Ad Nauseam which you try to resolve and if it does you can still win through a bunch of hate.
I punish a lot of players for letting Doomsday resolve by crafting a pass the turn pile or having a second draw spell. Trying to counter the draw spell is just greedy and you run the risk of running into some like me who anticipates that.
I'm tinkering with a new manabase. I dropped 4 duals (keeping Tundra, Scrubland and Underground Sea) and replaced them with 4 City of Brass. Fetchlands are slightly less powerful but topdecking a non-Fetchland gives you a lot more chance to get the right mana. This does inflict a bit more pain upon us and sometimes makes it difficult to find the right mana for post-side hate, but so far I haven't had a lot of issues. Will be back with updates.
I'd go down to 6 fetch if you only have 3 targets to search for.
I still have two basic lands as well. I haven't ever been unable to fetch so far, but my testing is few and far between so far.