IGG + extirpate to their counters in resp is a solutions?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia_Bot
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IGG + extirpate to their counters in resp is a solutions?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia_Bot
Seems a little extreme. Chant/discard is two different styles of play. Discard tends to be a little faster and more consistent (you can duress them the turn before and then go off the next turn whereas you need to chant the same turn you go off) but more susceptibal to being shut down (they can hide a force with top).Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenCid
Just play 3 chant 3 duress or something...
that's what I like the most, if you need chant you get it..
And sideboard extra discard/chant :P
In the Goblin thread we are discussing what to name with Cabal Therapy vs ANT. You're the experts, what should we say?
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/yu...gABPF-JP-R.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Nelis
Pandaborg. It has att 1700, def 1400 so it kills in one turn, no shit.
Ok, so assuming it is blind Therapy, Iď go for Brainstorm, the next one (hope you have a spare critter...) I'd take anything dangerous. If there are two or more BS in yard, I'd name Mystical/LED.
:really:
So from reading these forums and some personal testing, it seems like reanimator is a terrible matchup for ANT (here I'm referring to the version with DDay and burning wishes and no chant effects). It seems like every card in their deck is either land, search, or something that directly interfere's with your plan, be it discard, permission, or reanimation parts -> iona(black). This is esp bad with the versions of reanimator packing discard in the mainboard.
Given that it's probably impossible to do well with this deck at a large tournament without having a solid gameplan against reanimator, I'd be curious to hear what you guys have tried to this end.
Currently I'm running in the board as reanimator-hate:
1x Eye of Nowhere (wishable iona-removal)
1x Wipe Away (for g2/g3)
I played quite a lot vs reanimator with NLS and never thought the matchup was all that horrible.Quote:
So from reading these forums and some personal testing, it seems like reanimator is a terrible matchup for ANT (here I'm referring to the version with DDay and burning wishes and no chant effects). It seems like every card in their deck is either land, search, or something that directly interfere's with your plan, be it discard, permission, or reanimation parts -> iona(black). This is esp bad with the versions of reanimator packing discard in the mainboard.
Given that it's probably impossible to do well with this deck at a large tournament without having a solid gameplan against reanimator, I'd be curious to hear what you guys have tried to this end.
Currently I'm running in the board as reanimator-hate:
1x Eye of Nowhere (wishable iona-removal)
1x Wipe Away (for g2/g3)
Pre-side it's hard but if you can hide the fact you're playing combo the reanimator player will often reanimate something else then Iona or worst case put her on blue (In which case it should still be doable to win). Admittedly, if they playing discard maindeck it's harder.
Pre side I would say a well informed opponent will probably be able to make this matchup quite in his favor.
After side with 3 bounce spells and 8 discard effect your matchup should be atleast 50-50.
If you have a lot of trouble playing vs reanimator you could also include telemin performance or extirpate in your sideboard. Personally I'm not a big fan of T.performance because it's quite narrow and it's blue (reanimator player will play iona on blue most of the time G2). Nonetheless It could improve G1 against them.
Extirpate is imo one of the best cards to side in vs reanimator (aside from bounce spells ofc). Responding on reanimate with mystical and switching top to remove iona's is a great way to win this MU.
At the moment my sideboarding plan vs reanimator is +1 Thoughtseize + 1 eye of nowhere + 1 echoing truth + 1 chain of vapor. In an reanimator heavy environment all I would do is add 1 extirpate to this plan.
Here another question from Goblins to ANT experts:
We had a discussion about combo-hate. We took the following cards into consideration:
Cabal Therapy/Thoughtseize alongside with:
Thorn of Amethyst
Pyrostatic Pillar
Chalice of the Void
Which one hurts you most?
The oppinion so far was that Thorn slows you down but doesnt defeat you compleatly since you still have enough time to search for your Bounce.
Pyrostatic Pillar doesnt slow you a bit but gives you at least 4 damage while trying to remove it.
Chalice is flexible. It can be set on 0 or on 1, but either way you are still able to go off (even without bounce).
Any suggestions? You could post that in the Goblin thread btw.
Thanks!
Thorn is the best hate piece you have available. We can win through both Chalice and Pillar, but winning through Thorn, if it comes with a reasonable clock, is quite difficult. An early Thorn also hinders our cantripping (Chalice does too though). However, even with Thorn, against good ANT players, you're not going to get a positive matchup post-board. If you have other options to board against other decks, I'd consider not running any combo hate at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
Concerning the Reanimator matchup, I run 3 Doomsday, 1 Shelldock Isle and 1 Emrakul sideboard, and my postboard matchup is favorable. Their deck can't really beat an early Doomsday, and any creature after that is irrelevant.
I'd gladly test that a few times against you.
I've no experience with that blowing up in my face while playing reanimate, but a resolved doomsday into that is definately game against reanimate. A very few lists run an edict effect.
Also a good ANT player will be able to win both post-board games against reanimate even though they are tricky, bounce and slaughter pact combined with a simple chant does everything you want. as long as they don't have an extract or sadistic up theirs ( which will be a dead card against NLS, since they can either tendrils or emrakul) they'll be fine.
Hmm, that's a 5 card package for the sideboard, only one of which is used in traditional sideboards...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
what'd you have to take out? Or, perhaps more relevantly, what's your current sideboard running that package?
@gobolord: The absolute best hate you can have is Null Rod. Well, when running the terrible version with no IGG and 2 Tendrils, Chalice @0 really hurts them. But for EVERYTHING, play Null Rod. With DD, Chalice is whatever, you can play around it. There is no playing around Null Rod ... ever (unless Goblins gives us about 4-7 turns to setup threshed Cabal Rituals + IT assuming we can't find answers for it).
Thorn is also good, but if I had the choice of having Thorn/Sphere in play or Null Rod, I would MUCH rather see the Thorn/Sphere since it allows me to use Top to find an answer and doesn't shut off my artifact mana if I stall on 2 lands or something early on. Although, I will tell you one thing, out of all the hate cards I want to see played, I HOPE to see Mindbreak Trap the most. The card is so worthless against combo its ridiculous. It may steal A game ... but it sucks against anyone who knows what they are doing and usually you mull to 5-6 trying to find it and keep shitty hands.
In short, Null Rod is THE BEST way to stall combo out for the longest period of time because it MUST be answered if your deck can only win VIA storm.
Null rod is good once it hit play, but thats the problem. ANT can go off before turn 2, can hit it with discard, or can just go off without worrying about it. Chalice for 0 hits all of the same cards except top, and honestly, if your spending turns spinning top, I'm dealing plenty of damage to your face with gobbos. Plus, null rod shuts off one of our best cards, vial. Vial allows us to double our goblin pumping, allowing us to kill ANT twice as fast. Null Rod also requires two lands in hand, and that we spend our 2nd turn playing it. I'd much rather be dropping piledrivers or winstigators turn 2. Chalice for 0 causes no tempo loss, and allows you to use wastelands that turn. Last but not least, drawing a second null rod isn't going to put you in a significantly better position. Drawing a 2nd or 3rd chalice is never going to be dead. So from an ANT perspecitive, I really don't like chalice. It delays me by at least 2-3 turns, and is quite a pain. As a goblins player, it fits with the strategy of the deck better than any other card. Just my 0.02Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
double trouble
Null Rod is a pain, and will cause ANT to kill it self more often than not.
Chalice is good and all, it's even good against Zoo. But it's easily played around with Doosmday or regular ANT with the right hand and some luck on flipping Dark Rituals.
The problem with goblins is that it is actually a really slow deck from ANT perspectice. If we were to make and average damage dealt per turn by goblins, we would have turn 1/2/3 close to 0/1/3 damage and them jumping to 10 on turn 4 or something. Cards that slow ANT a bit will be good if you hit fast hands, so I think cards that disrupt completely some aspect of your opponents game are better.
How is Null Rod any different from Chalice here? They have the exact same effect (minus the fact that chalice will actually counter rather than letting them stay in play) and that is shutting off 0 casting cost artifacts. The only benefit null rod offers you in this matchup is shutting off top. Personally, i'm not gonna spend an extra two mana to shut off one card (that can then be shut off next turn with a chalice @1) only to lose vial, one of the best cards in the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by alderon666
What are you referring to here? I'm pretty sure thats what ALL the hate does lol. Even mindbreak trap. Its there to slow you down enough to find discard (not that I recommend it).Quote:
Originally Posted by alderon666
off topic: A local player used RB build of Goblins with maindeck Prospectors and some 5/3 black rogue Goblin that eats three from opponents library. It proved useful - even against Thrash, removing 3/4 of Goyfs... "now kill me with Gooses, lol"
If he plays Burning Wish, he can still go for the SB Tendrils or EtW at least, but it is still better than nothing. And you can play it turn2.
As a goblin player myself, I must say that Earwig Squad is a definite plus in this match-up. The problem comes with running more than one or two. The deck doesn't have enough slots to dedicate to cards like that so those are mostly fetched up with matron or lucked into play from your opening 7. If you don't have a Frogtosser then you're looking at a 3cc Squad instead of the 2cc version. As far as prospector is concerned: is he or will he ever make the cut over vial or lackey in the one slot? Probably not, so we don't run him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksandr
Since we don't run prospector, Squad doesn't hit the table until turn 3-4 on average and that's far too slow vs. ANT. It's not worth destroying our deck's consistency with Prospector to get a Squad on turn 2. He's mostly run against NOPro variants anyway.
Probably one of the better plays would be turn 1 lackey, turn two Port your land, turn three squad. Even so, I've kept that hand and had ANT blow up on me turn 2. :(
I'd still like to say that chalice is great in this match-up because, while they can still doomsday through it, it costs goblins 0 tempo and forces the ANT deck INTO the doomsday path, which increases our active hindrance of their deck plan. I'd rather see a chalice in play when I lose than a Thorn of Amythest in my hand... The same can be said for Null Rod. Null Rod allows permanents to hit the board, and only shuts off SDTop. Chalice @ 0 does almost the exact same thing, minus Top. It still must be dealt with in the same manner and it costs 0 tempo. Null Rod takes our turn 2 threats, and therefore gives the ANT player a turn to react to the card. Chalice does neither of those things.
Qty Name
// Lands
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
//\\
// Spells
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Infernal Tutor
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Mystical Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
3 Chrome Mox
2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Duress
4 Orim's Chant
1 Wipe Away
//\\
// Sideboard
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Bayou
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Extirpate
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Deathmark
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rebuild
3 Dark Confidant
1 Angel's Grace
Fared very well (ehm... see below) with this list yesterday.
R1, Bert, Herrings
G1 I slowly sculpted my hand against double Cursecatcher, than when I tried to combo out, I had not enough mana due to double Daze and named CCs. Yeah, I could try it faster, but I had no info on his hand... Maybe he had those Dazes since the game started.
G2 I finished him with Ad Nauseam + Angel's Grace after I blindly draw by Top into land that made me play around Daze on AdN.
G3 I lost.
R2/R3, Tom, Tress
I won the G1 pretty easy, lost G2 somehow and was unable to get through hate in G3, so this match was draw
R3/R2, Bye
R4, Martin, Monobrown Stax
G1 I comboed very fast, while G2 I comboed very fast.
Overall I am happy with the deck, but playing Storm.dec for the first time in my life, it is not that easy with DD. I'll try some easier list next time.
Things I have learned about this deck:
Doomsday-decks are incredibly hard. Still unsure if the effort is worth it. Tourney results seem to imply it's not.
Ad Nauseam is too good. I have cut IGG from my deck. Much like Doomsday-versions it can save you when AdN would do nothing, but requires a bit more work. Of course, just running 2 AdN instead of AdN+IGG is just easier and wins a lot of games just by the deck being easier to pilot.
2x Tendrils does nothing. I have one extra in the board though. I have no idea why.
Running 4 Chant + 2 Silence made a guy ask if I ride my car with a helmet on. Have been running 3 Duress + 3 Chant since.
I don't like 4 Duress + 2 Thoughtseize-versions. Don't really know why. Made me feel uncomfortable.
Path to Exile in the board is tech.
Against blue, Xantid Swarm goes in game one, and if I for some reason do not win, they go back out game 3. Opponents have a lot of dead cards and scratched heads.
This deck beats Stax as well as Sphere-boarding tribe decks even though it shouldn't. This still surprises me.
City of Traitors is insane. I used to have problems against decks with fast clocks and Daze/Cursecatcher/Spell Pierce. Not anymore I don't.
I hate CB-decks. Especially those that fetch hatebears with Survival of the Fittest.
It's very important to not loose the first match, because then you play against terrible Sui-decks that wreck you with Dark Ritual+Hymn+Thoughtseize for the rest of the tournament. And Sadistic Sacrament. Nothing hurts your self esteem more.
I have no idea what Dark Confidant is supposed to do. Never did in TPS either.
For reference, I am running a list that is nearly identical to Saito's while I learn how to play it properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eksem
In my limited experience with this deck I have found 2x tendrils to be very useful. Sometimes you need to go for a mini tendrils to buy you another turn or two. Especially in the mirror.
The version I run uses these. I absolutely love an opening hand with a thoughtseize in it. I have been considering going 4 TS 2 duress, but unfortunately the life really matters with this deck. The discard just seems better to me than chants in almost all situations since it can affect decks without counterspells. A duress or TS has never been a dead card for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eksem
I bring in Dark Confidant against the mirror, reanimator, and cb top decks like thopter foundry that don't play a ton of creatures. He acts as a mini ad nauseum. I have actually won a few games just beating down with multiple DCs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eksem
And now a couple questions for the more experienced combo players in the room.
I have one IGG in my board. I bring it in against non blue decks.
Should I board out one of my 2 Ad nauseum for it?
Has anyone cut SDT from their list or dropped it down to 1?
Was thinking about adding a MD answer to hate, such as a chain of vapor, since I have started to see more things like gaddock teeg main. Plus it would be nice to have the chain MD when reanimator gets their Iona and names black game one. Not sure what to cut for it, but a SDT doesn't seem like a bad idea.
Thanks in advance.
I'm playing with one IGG in SB too, usually I board out one tendrils for the IGG because if I am boarding IGG I want Fast wins(and a open hand with Adn seems very good).Quote:
Originally Posted by JKubilis
SDT is one of the best cards in the deck because of its interactions with LED and Mystical Tutor. Going below 2 isn't ideal since you will not be able to fully abuse LED mana, and it doesn't really make to play 1 of something that you can't tutor for. It's also one of the reason why ANT doesn't really have any problems against discard aggro/Bx suicide. If you took them out, those matchups would be a lot worse.Quote:
Has anyone cut SDT from their list or dropped it down to 1?
Was thinking about adding a MD answer to hate, such as a chain of vapor, since I have started to see more things like gaddock teeg main. Plus it would be nice to have the chain MD when reanimator gets their Iona and names black game one. Not sure what to cut for it, but a SDT doesn't seem like a bad idea.
Thanks in advance.
If you play Saito's list, you could go down to 3 Cabal Rituals if you wanted to add the Chain.
CoV sucks cuz it won't remove Cotv@1 which is the main threat. If you want to deal both with Iona (well, increase your chance, because he can also named black for Slaughter Pact/Deathmark) and with Hate MD, play Echoing Truth. It is the best answer to any random hate, I used to always side it in g2 when it is not in my MD anyway , all the more when I dont know what my opponent is siding against me.Quote:
Originally Posted by JKubilis
The mini-tendrils to buy time is only necessary if you run Thoughtseize and have no Chants (Chant-walking also buys you a turn, actually), and even then it's rare. However, this reminds me that the Tendrils in my SB should probably be IGG instead.
I would always run 2 SDT, it does a lot of things.
You should definately make room for a MD Chain of Vapor (my favorite) or Wipe Away (everyone else's favorite). Cut a Tendrils ;)
This is the list I am planning on playing at my local's GPT. I need some small cards and an LED. It's a pretty stock list:
Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Orim's Chant
3 Cabal Ritual
3 Infernal Tutor
2 Ad Nauseam
2 Ponder
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
Artifacts
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
2 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
Sideboard
4 Xantid Swarm
2 Krosan Grip
2 Reverent Silence
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Extirpate
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Thoughtseize
My biggest problem is revealing Ad Nauseam when I Ad Nauseam. I never want to hit it, but I seem too way too often.
Hitting Ad Nauseam is a necessary evil, over the course of many games it will end up balanced in your favor. The amount of games that having a second Ad Nauseam will win is much greater than the ammount of games you will lose to flipping it over with the first one.
A lot of people complain about hitting the second one, but as long as you are vigilant about what your life total is and how many storm you need to go off it shouldn't be a problem (or at least not as often as internet forums suggest). All you need to do is count and look for lines of play that allow you to flip the least amount of cards.
I've played the mirror match numerous times where my opponent had a clear victory and over flipped/ didnt consider the *best* line of play and complained about how bad his draw was. when he had the right cards if he played them in the right order. The biggest complaint from these players is always that they flip Ad Nauseam. Chances are that if this is a common theme in your games, losing to flipping Ad Nauseam, you are not playing optimally and should gold fish the deck more to get a feel for the minimum amount of cards you need to combo off. I suggest taking notes when you play games and when you goldfish so that you can look back over the situations you couldn't figure out and see what your other options are. This deck has more options that most people give it credit for and if you learn form you losses and really study the workings of the deck you can improve your win percentage greatly. Looking at the games you win in this way will also help improve your win percentage.
For people playing lists similar to Saitou's, what are the most common cards you board out? I have been playing his maindeck with a small change (-1 Ponder, +1 Sensei's Divining Top), and usually found myself boarding out the Ponder (Ponders, when I was playing 2) and the Infernal Tutor/ Lion's Eye Diamond package more than anything else, with the 4th Cabal Ritual being the other card that sits games two and three out.
The other topic I think should be discussed more is sideboard slots, it seems like ANT players are becoming more savvy when boarding in the mirror and that Sadistic Sacrament is losing value, are there cards that could be more useful against more decks while still giving equal value in the mirror?
Currently my board looks like this
4 Dark Confidant
2 Reverent Silence
2 Thoughtseize
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Extirpate
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Krosan Grip
1 Sadistic Sacrament
I was thinking or adding a second removal spell, a second Extirpate, or a second Hurkyl's Recall in the place of Sadistic Sacrament, but of those only Extirpate has any possible impact on the mirror and I wouldn't really want to bring it in. Has Inquisition of Kozilek been good for anyone? Maybe a Pithing Needle? These all seem like bad ideas...
If you're adding bounce MD because of any other reason other than to fight Staxx it should be Chain of Vapor. It just does so much:Quote:
Originally Posted by JKubilis
- Bounces anything for 1 mana
- Costs just 1
- Good against Reanimator
- Adds storm with 0 mana artifacts
My favourite play with it is, play 2 or 3 zero-mana artifacts and then Chain each one back to your hand sacrificing all your lands. Then with the last copy you bounce their hatebear (works even under Canonist) and then proceed to go off.
In my testing of the mirror match, I found that Dark Confidant had a greater impact than Sad Sac. Almost without fail, the player who drew and resolved more copies of Dark Confidant would win - even if the opponent cast Sad Sac. This is partly because Bob is a trump to Sad Sac, and also because Bob draws disruption and this pins the opponent down while pecking away at his life total.Quote:
Originally Posted by ottozoell
Of course if the opponent does not have Bob or doesn't board it in, Sad Sac is much better. But if both players have Bob, I found that not having Sad Sac at all isn't a big deal. Taking Sad Sac out of the board is much easier when considering that the card only has use in one real match.
Hello all, I plan on playing this deck at a couple tournaments this weekend and although I feel fairly comfortable playing it, I still have no idea how to sideboard (what to take out specifically). I am playing Saito's list from Grand Prix Madrid, could anyone give some general advice on how to sideboard or tell me what is generally cut for the sideboarded cards. Thanks for any help!:smile:
I've been tinkering with some changes to my DDANT and I decided to scrap the DD plan tomorrow because it hasn't been treating me too well last weeks.
My new list is this:
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 SDT
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 LED
4 Chrome Mox
4 Silence
3 Duress
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Swamp
Sideboard:
4 Dark Confidant
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Duress
1 Wipe Away
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Death Mark
2 Krosan Grip
1 Ad Nauseam
Anyone got some constructive criticism? Any obvious flaws you can see?
The SB is designed to fight a large and wide-open Meta, I'm thinking about replacing 1 Death Mark with a basic Forest, though, so I can fight Dragon Stompy or similiar decks. Do you think this is a viable consideration, given my choice of Fetches?
@Rico Suave.... So according to your argument Sad Sac is better than Confidant... If that is what you meant to say, why do you play Confidant over Sad Sac? I can't really think of many matches I would rather have a Confidant over a Sad Sac. Can you please list your reasons for Confidant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidd
4 Chrome Mox is too much. Cut 1.
4 Cabal rituals are, IMO, too much. Cut 1.
8 cantrips are too few. Run 1-2 more.
Chain of vapor is horrile because it does not even bounce Chalice (Counterbalance was obvious). If you don't want to run Wip Away or Rushing River, pack at least Echoing Truth.
Basic Forest is not needed against Dragon Stompy, if you want the best solution against that deck, it's called either Slaughter pact (for Magus of the Moon) or a second Hurkyl's recall.
I would advise you to reread what I wrote, because I clearly did not say Sad Sac is better than Confidant. In fact, I said the opposite:Quote:
Originally Posted by nodahero
"In my testing of the mirror match, I found that Dark Confidant had a greater impact than Sad Sac. Almost without fail, the player who drew and resolved more copies of Dark Confidant would win - even if the opponent cast Sad Sac."
It is not a matter of Bob vs. SadSac. They fulfill entirely different purposes. I was merely stating that Sad Sac's purpose isn't strong enough to justify SB space. It only seems to steal games against weak Reanimator players or storm pilots who mistakenly exclude Bob from their decks (but you're already advantaged over them if you have Bob).
Totally agree with Piceli.
Rebuild can also be good as a second Hurkyll, and it does not take Cotv@2 after a Cotv@1, which usually means you've lost.
I won the GPT Syracuse today. Here's the list:
4 Brainstorm
4 Mystical Tutor
3 Infernal Tutor
2 Sensei's Diving Top
2 Ponder
4 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
3 Chrome Mox
2 Ad Nauseam
2 Tendrils of Agony
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforests
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 City of Traitors
Sideboard
4 Dark Confidant
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Sadistic Sacrement
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rushing River
1 Deathmark
1 Extirpate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
Fairly standard B/U. I choose to play chain as maindeck bounce because its really good at building storm against control decks and to keep the mana cost low. Chain is not there to deal with maindeck chalice or counterbalance. Its there to stop things from auto-winning against you, such as Iona, Teeg, or Trini. Chalice @ 1 can still be played around, its not a hard lock. (Not to mention, if your oppenent is running maindeck chalice at 1, your probably fucked anyways.) Theres better things in the sideboard for them. When it comes to the sideboard, I choose Xantid Swarm because most of the time your oppenent will board out creature removal, and makes going off turn 2/3 pretty easy. Rushing river was my only real anti-counterbalance card, which is probably less than ideal, but trying to go for ad naus against them is a bad idea anyways. Deathmark was there for Teeg and Iona (I wanted to make sure I had plenty of hate in both blue and black). Ill-Gotten Gains was for the aggro matchups.
I certainly didn't get lucky in my matchups today. They were as following:
Round 1: Mirror (but with R for Burning Wish)
2-1
(1-0)
Round 2: Merfolk
2-0
(2-0)
Round 3: Reanimator
2-1
(3-0)
Round 4: Dredge
ID
(3-0-1)
Round 5: U/W/g Control Landstillish?
He refused to draw for rating reasons, so we played it
1-2
(3-1-1)
Top 8: NO Prog
2-1
(4-1-1)
Top 4: Dredge
2-1
(5-1-1)
Finals: U/W/g Control Landstillish? (Same guy as Round 5)
2-0
(6-1-1)
If anyones got questions, please feel free to ask!
When running the Saito list, in which matchups are you guys boarding in dark confidants? The mirror of course and probably also reanimator, but when else? Du you also bring them in against Bant decks or Merfolk?
I actually bring it in against anything with blue in it.
I bring bob in matches where I expect the game to go long or me to be at a serious card disadvantage. Against mefolk and reanimator, I don't expect a long game. Both of their clocks are pretty quick, therefore dark confidant isn't really worth siding in. As for Bant decks, on the play I'll usually bring them in, on the draw I wont. Also depends on how I expect my opponent to play. If I feel like he's more likely to play slow and setup cb/top, I'll bring him in. If I expect warmonk beats/early natural order, I probably won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muradin
I board in BoB vs Merfolk and any blue ,the 2-3 cards you get are sometimes all you need to push thru counters. He trumps mirrors. He is played in Vintage as a maindeck slot for a few decks for his ability to give CA and win attrition wars.