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I agree, I've recently made the switch to thalia from mindcensor's, and thalia has been nothing but awesome. It's great for combo, opposing planeswalkers, and even hurts counter spells. However, I've dropped to punishing fires after testing, and am running pure GW. The deck just runs more smoothly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorenzo767
I've made some changes to my sideboard to address some changes in the metagame:
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Umezawa's Jitte
These changes reflect the increased presence of UW/b Darkblade decks that run Lingering Souls. Their game plan revolves around trying to activate Jitte on a flyer. Both EE and a 2nd copy of Jitte help to ensure that they don't achieve this plan, as well as allowing you to remove the tokens and getting through. Sword of Light & Shadow and Pridemage now also have a higher importance in the matchup.
EE also helps out against Dredge and the occasional combo decks (EE on Zero vs LED/Moxes/Petals/Goblin tokens). I've also brought it in against a RUG Delver player. It's extra removal for Delvers, Mongoose, and Goyfs.
How does maverick fight decks like hivemind and imperial painter with the new goblin welder style. The imperial painter deck is pretty brutal.
Against Imperial Painter: Fetch basics. Qasali Pridemage. Umezawa's Jitte. Aven Mindcensor. Swords to Plowshares.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
Against Hivemind: Gaddock Teeg. Lose.
Back in the Mental Misstep era, Storm entered a long slumber. With NO RUG's dominance, a combo deck arose- It was Hive Mind. Maverick, back then, resorted to using Angel's grace to avoid losing the game. Angel's grace can be used if Hive Mind infests your meta. Also, It can be used against storm to slow halt their combo, or buy you a turn to drop a hate bear.
Alternately, Mana Tithe stops the combo from working and isn't dead against other combo decks.
The best hate cards against Hive Mind that doesn't completely suck against the rest of the format are Thalia and Ethersworn Canonist. Thalia will require them to spend an extra mana to cast each of their pacts, and Canonist will give you a chance to blow up their Hive Minds with Qasali Pridemage.
Then pray.
Edit: Surgical Extraction is a possibility if you can fit it, which is unlikely for the majority of decks with an Enlightened Tutor package. It's effectively a counterspell against Intuition, since they rarely have mana to do anything but play it at your EOT, which gives you priority.
Realistically, Combo decks comprise less than 15% of the metagame. If your metagame has a much higher concentration of Combo, then Maverick is not a good choice to play. I'm comfortable with being soft to 15% of the metagame if that means I can crush roughly 60% of the metagame decisively.
There is also the option of Black or Blue splash to help shore up those matchups. Blue is better suited and more well rounded for that approach however.
EE is excellent at the moment with Belcher rearing its ugly heady, but I'm not sure it's needed against Esper Blade. Troll Ascetic with a sword on it utterly and completely ruins that deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
I can get behind a Second Jitte, but I have never needed it so far.
It may have been incidental, but EE served me well during the last tournament. I was able to have a somewhat decent game against Enchantress by blowing up Solitary Confinement while under Sterling Grove lock in order to alpha strike. I ended up drawing the match, but it was useful there nonetheless.
As it turns out, most of the Lingering Souls lists just cut them for SB for more removal - so I'm not sure if EE is the best for that. Sometimes, you can't anticipate players sideboarding correctly for any given matchup (and explains why I faced Nimble Mongoose in games 2/3 against RUG).
Show and Tell based combo decks are a serious problem for us. I don't know that we can even the odds, but we can fight them. Game one though is probably a lost cause. I bring in three Ethersworn Canonist from the board. With Thalia as a three of main and holding kotr as a snt target to grab karakas, we can deal with Emrakul and use SoLas to race Progs. In the Hive Mind game get Thalia online asap and keep Teeg in to stop them from hard casting Hive Mind. Keep mom in as an answer to slaughter pact and bring in the bog to dig for a black source. I play test Hive Mind a lot and we are way under game one, and will rarely win two straight against them, but you have to try.
So, after pretty much becoming the defacto "test pilot" playing GW/x Maverick for our Legacy playtesting leading up to GP Indy (which in the end I wasn't able to attend ::sadface) ...I basically fell in love with the deck. I've been on a non-blue kick for a while, and this deck is ...well, really good.
I also always played my Junk/Rock deck extremely well in the past, so I was immediately drawn towards testing a GWb version.
I started off with Bob's, Thoughtseizes, and a couple Vindicates. They were fine, but I'm not entirely sure it's better than GW just for the small reduction in stability.
However, Thalia is the real deal, and I think the deck wants 2-3 copies of her without question. Which hurts the majority of the black splash outside of Bob, and got me thinking.
At present, I'm really digging the Thalia + Tidehollow Sculler interaction as a replacement for discard. With a Darkblast and some Thoughtseizes in the SB.
I believe Sylvan Library is the best card in the deck over Gaea's Cradle. Being able to ponder every turn for an initial 2 mana is ridiculous. Gaea's Cradle is good but it isn't needed for the deck to be good where the library is because you get to filter your draws and it makes your fetches better. My current list is:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Gaurdian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Sylvan Library
4 Swords to Plowshare
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
2 Horizon Cannopy
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Forest
1 Plains
Why would that matter tho? It's not like Cradle and Sylvan Library occupy the same slot in the deck. It's not that I disagree with your assessment of Sylvan Library's power, it's just odd that you feel Library and Cradle cannot co-exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagehughes
Agreed...two differnt card slots completely. Gradle would take the place of a wasteland, maze, or karakas.Quote:
Originally Posted by randomly.anonymous
library is usulaly a spot of its own, or a planeswalker slot.
Or much more likely the spot of the second Canopy.
Gaea's Cradle isn't necessary. Wasteland + Thalia is a gameplan. You can't cut Wastelands. Turning extra lands into cards gives you a stronger late game and more outs. Don't cut Horizon Canopy. Maze of Ith is a must answer for Stoneblade. Karakas is almost as bad if you have a Thalia out. (Block, bounce, nice equipment, bro) Both Karakas and Maze of Ith are devastating against Reanimator.
Gaea's Cradle... produces 0 mana when you are behind and lots of mana when you are ahead... Not helpful. If someone casts WoG, do you want to fetch a Gaea's Cradle or your second Horizon Canapy or even any other land in your entire deck?
On a different issue. I think people are underestimating the SFM package, if I ever thought that was even possible. The point of the deck is "I have the answer." GSZ, KotR, and SFM provide three distinct tutor packages that are designed to overwhelm the opponent with card quality.
Why cut or reduce one of your most powerful toolboxes? I understand Jitte is very good, so have a second sitting in the board or MD an Eternal Witness. Done. Easy. You still have SoLS (crazy in this deck), SoFF/SoBM, and Batterskull at your disposal. I understand people's sentiments when they cut Batterskull. I have so many creatures, why do I care? Because if you land Batterskull t3, it is highly unlikely that you will lose. They can Swords and Snap-Swords and WoG all they want, but Batterskull keeps coming back. Not to mention it's much more reliable against Combo, Burn, and Dredge than the alternatives.
Might be a nitpick, but this deck shouldn't be played with the idea "I have an answer". It's the converse rather - "I have a threat, deal with it!". The whole point of the deck is to maximize the effectiveness of those threats. Against some strategies, Maverick does take the control role such as against Reanimator; but only because Jin-Gitaxias is so debilitating. Every other creature is manageable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
The tutor package gives you flexibility which is where some answers are better than the threats. However, that is generally only in the case for KotR. SFM and GSZ find us threats.
RE: Batterkskull & Gaea's Cradle
If you're advocating for cutting Gaea's Cradle on the one hand, but keeping Batterskull on the other hand - then there's a disconnect. Gaea's Cradle is specifically included to be able to power out Batterskull and move it around. Without running Batterskull, Gaea's Cradle's role is diminished. It still does ridiculous things in certain matchups with Scavenging Ooze (Dredge) so it cannot be discounted.
Cradle is indeed rather weak in the UW/x Stoneblade matchups due to the high amount of removal. As discussed earlier in the thread, it's a Risk/Reward ratio that the pilot has to be comfortable with. I strongly feel that the Risk for running it is outweighed by the Reward of using it.
Thalia is pretty good, but have you guys thought of black as well? I'm a big fan of Goyfs and not so much Stoneforge/mom.
SFM is a good card, but it's also slot and mana intensive. Throwing in 2-3 Jitte instead lets you free up slots while paying less mana; with that you can bump the number of Elspeths or other powerful cards like Sylvan Library, throw in a Goyf or a second Ooze or Thrun or whatever, etc..
I mean you have to make a judgement call on the relative value of these things, but talking about card choices without discussing the opportunity cost is fruitless.
Checkout the Rock/Junk thread for builds eschewing SFM/Mother of Runes.Quote:
Originally Posted by zulander
Come on over to the Dark side of the Maverick...free hugs! :cool:
-Matt
I think the only benefit of going black with mav is dark confidant and pernicious deed. Other than that, there isn't anything else worth splashing for.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Ah yeah, let me revise. I should say the deck isn't about dropping threats blindly. The strength is that it can find the right threat to ruin your day. "I have an answer" is the wrong attitude, but it's not just "threat, threat, threat;" it's Ooze for GY, BSkull for aggro, KotR for Stoneblade, etc. But it's deeper than that, sometimes you want to run out Ooze vs Stoneblade, sometimes you need Pridemage, Jitte, SoLS... any number of things. The deck loses flexibility when your gameplan is dude -> Jitte.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Definitely you have to weigh things like SFM VS Elspeth (or whatever else), but I still hold that in terms of the deck's general gameplan, SFM fits better. Elspeth is a good SB card.
The thing is that the format is increasingly run by 1-2 toughness creatures and full of blockers. It's difficult to think of times where a Jitte is significantly worse than a relevant Sword in most matchups, and it's easy to think of times where Jitte is way better than the wrong Sword.
Jacob,
You mind answering the questions in the comments sections here: http://www.starcitygames.com/events/..._brett_pa.html
Congrats on placing. The way the article is written, it doesn't provide much detail about board state, etc. I'm Dave Yarber in the comments section.
Sure, in game 2 I had a fresh cast Mom and Dryad Arbor with and active Mom. He then attacked with a Lackey so I tried to block / kill with the active Mom. That's when the Pyrokinesis was fired in response, which confused me since he could have done it to connect with Lackey and find Gempalm.
Game 3 was just a punt as I started getting frustrated from not drawing a land since game 1 after multiple mulligans. I should have blocked Lackey and Pathed the Chieftain.
Actually I haven't had much issue with Show and Tell at all. I will admit that hivemind can be an issue, but that's why you play 4 wastelands. There deck plays almost NO basics (and often skimps on lands anyways) so you can try to mull to turn 2 KoTR and waste-lock them. Thalia is also a HUGE bane to them. She couples very well with the waste-lock plan and basically says all of your opponents spells cost 1 extra and a few of yours do (and since against that deck Swords is useless) that eliminates often 40% of the spells she effects in your deck (with the others being GSZ and Sylvan Library/Elspeth or some other 2 slots). I did beat a Hivemind player who turn 3 show and telled (because I had Thalia out) , got my KoTR into play and proceded to wasteland him into oblivion (though at the time my board was the Maverick "Stax" style board with Armageddon's and Thorn of Amethysts). And I got a Thorn on my draw which let me get to the point where he had to draw a sol land to play any pacts (though I didn't know at the time he didn't have any pacts). What really helps is the fact that if they show and tell Progenitus or Emarkul we have built in outs to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by defector
Emarkul-use KoTR to fetch Karakas and wallah..you're opponent screwed themselves and sped your game plan up. They SnT Progenitus, get a batterskull/SoLaS. They often can't race you that way.
I'm curious about your match-ups in general. Maverick is good at beating blue but combo, burn, goblins, anything with black and perish (pox, junk, aggro loam) is at best equal matchups if I'm not mistaken. How would you guys rate your matchups?
I don't feel as though Goblins or Burn are bad matchups like Combo; they just require careful and tight play to pull ahead.
Combo
* Reanimator 45/55 Game 1, 65/35 Game 2
* Hive Mind 25/75 (improves to nearly 80/20 with Angel's Grace SB plan)
* High Tide 35/65 Game 1, 40/60 Game 2 (requires hate bears to win)
* ANT/TES 30/70 (requires hate bears and a good bit of luck)
* Belcher 10/90 (good luck...)
* Spanish Inquisition (ditto)
* Combo Elves 30/70 Game 1, improves with Canonist Game 2
Burn 45/55 but highly dependent on the build of Burn/RDW and Maverick
Goblins 45/55 (Mother of Runes and Jitte are the key, Batterskull helps slightly but Jitte and SoFI are better)
Merfolk 75/25 (Do people still play this deck?)
Pox (unfavorable) depends on which disruptions they pack. Smallpox is the worst against Maverick, Sinkhole is just annoying but not enough to make a difference, Liliana is bad for us too.
Aggro Loam (highly unfavorable) - a better "Pox" deck with more removal and faster clock
Junk (favorable) - Mother of Runes + white creatures are the key to winning (SFM -> SoLS usually just destroys them)
Burn - unfavorableQuote:
Originally Posted by bilb_o
UW - very favorable
RUG - very favorable
Any NO - slightly unfavorable
Combo - unfavorable, but still winnable
Pox - Even
Junk - favorable
Goblins - Evenish
Aggro Loam - unfavorable
Affinity - slightly favorable
These are just my opinions, but I don't go into a certain mindset when a match is unfavorable or even unfavorable. Maverick has a lot of game and the deck rewards tight play more than any I ever played before. I also feel that Maverick can win against any matchup and it's mostly about the little decisions you make in a match that determines the outcome. There have been a number of times I lost a match due to misplays I made where I could have have won it if I played a bit tighter. This allows me to recognize my play mistakes and learn from them and help me with decisions the next time I come across a similar situation. The only combo matchups I am very afraid of are Belcher (too fast) and High tide (can wait forever and can win through most of our hatebears). I'm never too worried against storm as my record against the deck is 50-50 with most of my losses going to a game 3 where I could've won if I played better. Burn is still a bit of a problem and depends a lot on whether you have a Stoneforge or Jitte in hand.
Thanks Koby. I'm thinking about picking up this deck for a while but can't justify the move from Brainstorms to Savannahs to myself considering the wide open metagame. Are you still planning on a new primer?
Edit: And Fade too! Some people can write a whole paragraph before I can write two lines :D
I finally have a weekend that's relatively free (at least from Magic tournaments) so I'm going to hammer out a good bit of the primer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
The hive mind matchup...does it really skew that much in mav's favor with angel's grace?
they still have the emrukhal plan.
Which is not great due to Knight/Karakas against Maverick and even boarded out by some Hive Mind Players.
The Emrakul plan was/(is) never strong against Maverick due to Knights/Karakas. Angel's Grace essentially counters the Hive Mind plan completely, so ya it does feel like an auto-win with the inclusion of Angel's Grace + aggressive mulligans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
@Koby.
I agree with your assessment there completely, but can we run angels grace in a diverse metagame? Hive mind has one great advantage in that it isn't played a lot, so we rarely devote our sb slots to dealing with it. My playtest partner happens to play hivemind, so I am blessed to see it every weekend, but then I never pack anything for it for a major cause I figure I am going with one of maybe five hm players that will be there. If we could make a 25 card board I think we could make every game 2 50/50:) but in the inevitable compromise it seems like we get to choose ahead of time which combo decks will get us. At least we beat the rest of the field and if we run into our prepared for combo mu we can get a win out of it. I think that with Thalia we are at 50/50 with burn, maybe even 52/48 in our favor. I think U/R Delver is rough for us and that has been left out of the discussion so far, or maybe that's just my misfortune, but I have been smashed by U/R Delver almost every time I play it. Other than that the deck really does reward tight play, we can steal a lot of wins just through preparation. The deck really rewards format knowledge and we rarely lose to scrubby decks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by defector
I don't think you can afford to use 4 sideboard slots to fight one matchup. Its too much.
I say roll the dice and see if you match up with hivemind. if you do, just take it as a game loss.
Thanks for the response. I'm just confused about one part - "connect with Lackey and find Gempalm" I understand he can Pyro before declare blockers, forcing you to lose 2 and tap the active mom, thus allowing lackey to connect, but are you suggesting he lackey in a gempalm or by find gempalm do you mean with a matron and then cycle it to kill your other mom?Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
I can see his line of reasoning, as I would probably do the same thing, but are you suggesting it's better to under-utilize the removal spell in order to increase board presence?
I have a question regarding to a maverick-merfolk mu. I know nobody plays merfolk right now but I still have the deck I made a while ago. So I went to the friend, lent him my merfolk deck while I play with my maverick. I really like this deck but here I came across to a problem. It maybe sounds funny but I couldn't beat him, it wasnt even close. He countered everything relevant I played while making a pressure on me with throwing out creatures, mostly lords of course to make his creatures even bigger, what was too big of a deal for me. I simply couldn't compete with so many creatures he put out (I never have so many of them out on my own). I got feeling it's just too fast to do anything good to save me a day. Since it should be fairly easy mu for maverick I would be really appreciated if anyone gave me an advice of how to beat merfolks coz I'm getting a bit frustrated.