[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

Ok, I should've been more precise. Of course chant is better versus multiple counterspells. However, if the opponent draws 14 cards in response to your chant/silence you're usually just doomed because he has multiple pitch counterspells.
Chant-Effects are a good protection spell. But given the SneakShow matchup, what I do not like about Chant-effects is that can usually can only protect your own combo turn and rarely can be used as proactive disruption in the previous turns (I know, there are some situations... but I really do not want to write a book here).
What can Chant do? Either you open a god hand and are faster than them with chant protection (which is not an easy task) or you can try to Chant them in your turn when they already got Griselbrand in play.... which again does not seem very helpful either most of the times (they just draw 14 cards in response and force your chant and still have counter magic in hand).
With 7 discard effects you can slow the SneakShow player down (discarding their combo pieces and forces) and then just play around the soft counters in turn 3 or 4.

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Originally Posted by katakis

Ok, I should've been more precise. Of course chant is better versus multiple counterspells. However, if the opponent draws 14 cards in response to your chant/silence you're usually just doomed because he has multiple pitch counterspells.
Chant-Effects are a good protection spell. But given the SneakShow matchup, what I do not like about Chant-effects is that can usually can only protect your own combo turn and rarely can be used as proactive disruption in the previous turns (I know, there are some situations... but I really do not want to write a book here).
What can Chant do? Either you open a god hand and are faster than them with chant protection (which is not an easy task) or you can try to Chant them in your turn when they already got Griselbrand in play.... which again does not seem very helpful either most of the times (they just draw 14 cards in response and force your chant and still have counter magic in hand).
With 7 discard effects you can slow the SneakShow player down (discarding their combo pieces and forces) and then just play around the soft counters in turn 3 or 4.

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Try to chant-walk so they can't drop Griselbrand via S&T/cast Enter the Infinite with Omniscience, before you kill them?

You can't fight an uphill battle against a resolved Griselbrand

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Originally Posted by katakis

[snip]What can Chant do? Either you open a god hand and are faster than them with chant protection (which is not an easy task) or you can try to Chant them in your turn when they already got Griselbrand in play.... which again does not seem very helpful either most of the times (they just draw 14 cards in response and force your chant and still have counter magic in hand).
With 7 discard effects you can slow the SneakShow player down (discarding their combo pieces and forces) and then just play around the soft counters in turn 3 or 4.

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My experience playing this matchup is the complete opposite. It's not that unrealistic to either open a hand that can go off t2 with protection or has some capacity to disrupt them before their turn 2. We are the faster combo deck. However, they almost always board in 4x Leyline of Sanctity, so disrupting them with discard is a crapshoot.
Meanwhile, they play Force and a bunch of taxing counters, something that Silence is absolutely golden against.

I typically board -1 Silence, -1 Infernal Tutor, -1 Empty the Warrens, -1 Gitaxian Probe for +2 Chain of Vapor, +2 Xantid Swarm. Not sure that the second Chain is necessary, but it can help with storm and occasionally you can bounce their Sneak Attack. My goal is to use Silence to make them Hymn themselves and have them play the control role until I can go off with protection. Every time I've played the control against S&S I've lost.

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Originally Posted by phazonmuant

Every time I've played the control against S&S I've lost.

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My last report strongly agrees in it's conclusion

Do you guys generally board out Empty vs every combo deck? I do like the list that had 2 empty the warrens. Not sure if I would be ballsy enough to play it, but Maybe I should be boarding in my SB empty vs tempo style decks?

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Do you guys generally board out Empty vs every combo deck? I do like the list that had 2 empty the warrens. Not sure if I would be ballsy enough to play it, but Maybe I should be boarding in my SB empty vs tempo style decks?

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I wouldn't ever sideboard in the second Empty because I want Wish to be live (with only 6 mana), but I do often board out an Empty against decks where I feel like I'll often lose after dropping Empty. Decks I board it out - S&S yes (maybe?), Omnitell definitely, ANT yes, Dredge no (so many dead discard spells...), Elves maybe (can't decide), Aluren no, Reanimator yes (Elesh Norn norn norn), TinFins yes.
Again, not sure if this is optimal, but I board out Empty a lot. Makes Ad Nauseam sooooo nice.

What about against GB decks or other decks with sweepers? I sometimes board it out against like Nic Fit because it is only really good on T1 at that point thanks to pulse and deed.

Also what about for Jund? Usually against Jund I havent even been sideboarding. Should I be taking out silences? I usually just leave them in... I have been beating jund about 70% of the time, but Im not sure if I am boarding properly or not...

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

What about against GB decks or other decks with sweepers? I sometimes board it out against like Nic Fit because it is only really good on T1 at that point thanks to pulse and deed.

Also what about for Jund? Usually against Jund I havent even been sideboarding. Should I be taking out silences? I usually just leave them in... I have been beating jund about 70% of the time, but Im not sure if I am boarding properly or not...

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I don't board much against Jund, if anything. They have nothing special that bothers me really. I keep the Silences in for chant-walking against discard, which saved my ass off Hymn 2 weeks ago.

It's justifyable to board out EtW for a Therapy against decks with Deed and Pulse.

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Originally Posted by phazonmuant

I wouldn't ever sideboard in the second Empty because I want Wish to be live (with only 6 mana), but I do often board out an Empty against decks where I feel like I'll often lose after dropping Empty. Decks I board it out - S&S yes (maybe?), Omnitell definitely, ANT yes, Dredge no (so many dead discard spells...), Elves maybe (can't decide), Aluren no, Reanimator yes (Elesh Norn norn norn), TinFins yes.
Again, not sure if this is optimal, but I board out Empty a lot. Makes Ad Nauseam sooooo nice.

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I can get behind this listing. I keep EtW in vs. Elves ... Duress against the Glimpse or a Chant is enough to make EtW lethal even against strong Elven-hands

I rarely side out Empty. Putting early pressure, combined with disruption, is usually pretty decent. Empty just sucks if your opponent has a spell that kills all your tokens at once. Against combo it's even better since you turn on the flashback from Therapy. That sometimes just wins on the spot. (I personally usually don't play Therapy, so in my case it wouldn't be a relevant argument, but most play Therapy, so it deserves a mention.)

Also I feel that Empty does not necessarily make your Ad Nauseam worse. If you draw a bunch of awkward cards from AdN which includes an Empty, you always have the option of just casting it and hope the tokens will get there. It won me several games which I would otherwise have lost because I couldn't get to Tendrils after AdN. (One of these was a rediculous misplay of mine, but I was saved by Empty.)

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Originally Posted by katakis

One of these hybrids was played by me.

I played this list:

4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Burning Wish
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Bayou

SB:

2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
1 Grapeshot
1 Diminishing Returns
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Dread of Night
2 Thoughtseize
1 Chain of Vapor

However, if you ignore the dual/fetchland manabase this list is quite close to a typical TES build.
Two EtW main? Yes, they are just that good in the current meta with all those blue aggrocontroldecks. Paired with maindeck cabal therapy they are also very good versus most non-blue decks.
Why no Chant/Silence? I expected a lot of SneakShow decks... and in this matchup additional discard is just better then chants, which are mostly useless vs an opponent with 14+ cards.

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Hmm, that's not my round one opponent then. My bad. Anyways, I like the double EtW. Why try hard when you can win easy right?

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

I don't board much against Jund, if anything. They have nothing special that bothers me really. I keep the Silences in for chant-walking against discard, which saved my ass off Hymn 2 weeks ago.

It's justifyable to board out EtW for a Therapy against decks with Deed and Pulse.



I can get behind this listing. I keep EtW in vs. Elves ... Duress against the Glimpse or a Chant is enough to make EtW lethal even against strong Elven-hands

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I have never lost vs a large ETW on T1 against elves. They need the nutters to go off on T2 anyway. If you are on the play you basically just win with 12 goblins.

Also maybe not much of a discussion, but in a little sample hand last night I played it out and went for a Diminishing returns off of a burning wish... It exiled my 3 other burning wishes and my mainboard Empty the warrens.... Which makes my deck actually do nothing lol. I really hope that damn card doesnt do that to me in a tourney setting...

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I have never lost vs a large ETW on T1 against elves. They need the nutters to go off on T2 anyway. If you are on the play you basically just win with 12 goblins.

Also maybe not much of a discussion, but in a little sample hand last night I played it out and went for a Diminishing returns off of a burning wish... It exiled my 3 other burning wishes and my mainboard Empty the warrens.... Which makes my deck actually do nothing lol. I really hope that damn card doesnt do that to me in a tourney setting...

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That's...pretty unlikely. I believe the math goes like this: (Assuming there's on average 55 cards in the 10 you're exiling - shouldn't make that much of a difference)
3 / 55 * 2 / 55 * 1 / 55 * 1 / 55 * P(10,4) = 6 * 5040 / 55^4 = 0.0033
or 0.3%.

That number makes intuitive sense, but I might have the math wrong.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I have never lost vs a large ETW on T1 against elves. They need the nutters to go off on T2 anyway. If you are on the play you basically just win with 12 goblins.

Also maybe not much of a discussion, but in a little sample hand last night I played it out and went for a Diminishing returns off of a burning wish... It exiled my 3 other burning wishes and my mainboard Empty the warrens.... Which makes my deck actually do nothing lol. I really hope that damn card doesnt do that to me in a tourney setting...

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Kind of variance. That should not happen very often. It's more likely to kill ProsakANT with a turn one Extract on ToA. :tongue:

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Originally Posted by phazonmuant

That's...pretty unlikely. I believe the math goes like this: (Assuming there's on average 55 cards in the 10 you're exiling - shouldn't make that much of a difference)
3 / 55 * 2 / 55 * 1 / 55 * 1 / 55 * P(10,4) = 6 * 5040 / 55^4 = 0.0033
or 0.3%.

That number makes intuitive sense, but I might have the math wrong.

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Lol. It isnt like I am going to cut the DReturns because of this, I just looked at the 10 cards and thought, "Can I win?"

Just a little hilarious thing that happened to me yesterday... I usually do tenish sample hands before I play an event just to make sure that I can count mana and storm properly... Dont wanna get rusty!

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Originally Posted by phazonmuant

That's...pretty unlikely. I believe the math goes like this: (Assuming there's on average 55 cards in the 10 you're exiling - shouldn't make that much of a difference)
3 / 55 * 2 / 55 * 1 / 55 * 1 / 55 * P(10,4) = 6 * 5040 / 55^4 = 0.0033
or 0.3%.

That number makes intuitive sense, but I might have the math wrong.

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using 58 cards left (-1 for the wish to fetch, -1 for something else, such as a mox) the mentioned scenario happens with a p ~ 0,0005. that is 1 in 2000 cases. look into hypergeometrical distribution for the calculation.

I'm considering taking this a legacy tournament after seeing master cook win SCG DC. Would people mind giving me advice on playing the deck? I'm a little bit nervous playing anything that isn't DnT. Sideboarding would be very lovely, as well as suggestions on keepable hands

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Originally Posted by phazonmuant

4x Leyline of Sanctity, so ... I typically board -1 Silence, -1 Infernal Tutor, -1 Empty the Warrens, -1 Gitaxian Probe for +2 Chain of Vapor, +2 Xantid Swarm.

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Are up sure this is correct? It seems like keeping in ETW vs Leyline of Sanctity is a good idea... It also means that you can go off vs them with one less card. If you drop the ETW early enough, you should be fine.

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Originally Posted by monovfox

I'm considering taking this a legacy tournament after seeing master cook win SCG DC. Would people mind giving me advice on playing the deck? I'm a little bit nervous playing anything that isn't DnT. Sideboarding would be very lovely, as well as suggestions on keepable hands

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The opening post is up to date. You can check it out for sample hands, lines of play. It pretty much tells you everything you asked about. All of it is useful..

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I have never lost vs a large ETW on T1 against elves. They need the nutters to go off on T2 anyway. If you are on the play you basically just win with 12 goblins.

Also maybe not much of a discussion, but in a little sample hand last night I played it out and went for a Diminishing returns off of a burning wish... It exiled my 3 other burning wishes and my mainboard Empty the warrens.... Which makes my deck actually do nothing lol. I really hope that damn card doesnt do that to me in a tourney setting...

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You win some, you lose some. I'd say Diminishing Returns has won me more than it has lost me, so I think it's worth it.

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Originally Posted by jin

The opening post is up to date. You can check it out for sample hands, lines of play. It pretty much tells you everything you asked about. All of it is useful..



You win some, you lose some. I'd say Diminishing Returns has won me more than it has lost me, so I think it's worth it.

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Its been about 50/50 for me :/

When it is good it is great, but when it is bad it serves me 3+ lands. This deck hates me.

Also I wouldnt just break this deck out for an SCG Open. Id get a lot of testing in if I were you.

Also went 1-2 tonight. I beat 4 color Planeswalkers (Yay!!). Lost in the mirror to phazonmutant (lame) and BUG Delver.

The mirror was rough losing the die roll, and he drew more silences than me :/ Pretty sure I punted game 2 of the mirror. As it turns out, if the game goes past turn 1 on both sides skill kicks in! And then Game 3 against BUG I kept the following opener:

2x Chrome Mox
1x Silence
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Burning Wish
2x Gitaxian Probe
1x Lotus Petal

My thoughts were that on the play all I need is for him to not have a force and one of my probes drawing a +1 or a land and I can empty for 12-16 dudes. I probe and see flusterstorm, daze, brainstorm and lands so I need to rip like a champ. I didnt :/

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Originally Posted by jin

Are up sure this is correct? It seems like keeping in ETW vs Leyline of Sanctity is a good idea... It also means that you can go off vs them with one less card. If you drop the ETW early enough...

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This depends a lot on their mindset to either mulligan into Leyline or Focus on gett'n a decent hand which can win during the first 3 turns. Most of the S&T players I played against do the later. Therefore I side out EtW against them because it happend to be too slow once before for me (was an EtW for 8 tbh).

Conclusion: If they mulligan into Leyline you can still wish for EtW, if they don't open/mull for Leyline you have one less card in your deck that is a brick.

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Originally Posted by monovfox

I'm considering taking this a legacy tournament after seeing master cook win SCG DC. Would people mind giving me advice on playing the deck? I'm a little bit nervous playing anything that isn't DnT. Sideboarding would be very lovely, as well as suggestions on keepable hands

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Read the OP carefully, make notes, (may take a look at my play-by-play reports in my signature) and playtest for AT LEAST 2 months before taking this to a big tournament or I guara-damn-tee, you'll fail so hard that you will never ever touch the deck again and call it crap.

This deck needs a lot of experience about then to calculate the odds and go all-in or slow-roling for turns while dropping lands. Switching from DnT to TES is like entering Vintage after you played Modern before

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Looks barely playable. What was your second Probe draw and your draw for turn? This hand should still make it if you Slow-Roll after Probe, draw land, play land, go

Edit: Double Post ... sry

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Well if I draw a land I can go land, chrome mox imprinting silence, petal LED burning wish Empty (Edit: Assuming I see that he doesnt have force). And if he had the force I could attempt to slow roll him and win. I drew a cabal therapy and a ponder i believe? Then I see a rite of flame, but at that point I had to burn the petal to cast ponder and at that point I couldnt fight through all of the counters he had.

Edit again. Oh shit I think I couldve wion that game. Goddamn Im an idiot. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Oh shit I think I couldve wion that game. Goddamn Im an idiot. :mad:

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Probe to see his hand, Mox (Silence), Mox (Probe), Petal, LED, Wish, EtW from SB for 14 Goblins.

I missed the fact that you were on the play, duh. Being on the play makes this A BIT easier XD

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Probe to see his hand, Mox (Silence), Mox (Probe), Petal, LED, Wish, EtW from SB for 14 Goblins.

I missed the fact that you were on the play, duh

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Yeah. I derped real hard like a fucking champ. Welp. Now Ill probably think about this retarded punt for awhile. So basically my outs were, anything lol. GOD IM SO DUMB FFFFUUUUCCCCCKKKKK. This is why you dont simply pick this deck up and play it. Ive been doing this for almost three months now and I still suck. With the two probes it literally didnt matter what I drew... BRB killing myself

The only variable here was really to either imprint the second Probe or any of the drawn cards/play drawn lands and cast Mox as a blank. The marginal difference is 14 or 16 goblins.

We will both laugh about this in a week :)

Agh it is just so stressful to me to think about how bad i punted that game... I was over thinking my own outs. In my mind I was like "This second Chrome Mox is a blank". I think that I forgot that LED could make red mana as well, because I think I was concerned abotu not having any more red mana to be able to cast burning wish AND Empty. Well kids if you want to learn how NOT to play the deck, Ill film my matches next week (assuming I dont get to play Moat stompy next week)

I almost finished building the list yesterday. Im playing in a proxies-allowed Thursday night legacy tonight. Im not expecting to do well with the deck TBH, but like Lemnear said, the deck require LOTS of testing and has a really steep learning curve.

Any advices in regards to line of play?

Im really curious about strategies and I'd appreciate ideas!

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Originally Posted by Kayradis

I almost finished building the list yesterday. Im playing in a proxies-allowed Thursday night legacy tonight. Im not expecting to do well with the deck TBH, but like Lemnear said, the deck require LOTS of testing and has a really steep learning curve.

Any advices in regards to line of play?

Im really curious about strategies and I'd appreciate ideas!

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One interaction that isnt an easily seen play is if you have Ad Nauseam or Empty the Warrens in hand, Plus LED and Brainstorm + Probe, you can brainstorm you Ad Nauseam or Empty to the top, cast Gitaxian Probe, and crack LED in response, Making it so you can use your LED towards a spell in hand essentially...

Also If you can just go off and make 14ish Goblins On T1 it is perfectly acceptable. Dont be afraid to just be like a belcher deck sometimes.

^ this. Many Legacy decks just fold to quick Goblins, and even the ones who don't tend to play only a few answers.

Another thing that is ok is midgame Goblins. Like, against Esper, if you know the coast is reasonably clear (esp. after discarding Batterskull), just go for some Goblins. It's not foolproof, but surprisingly not-horrible. This is a gambler's deck. This is an aggressive deck. Always keep those things in mind.

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Originally Posted by Kayradis

I almost finished building the list yesterday. Im playing in a proxies-allowed Thursday night legacy tonight. Im not expecting to do well with the deck TBH, but like Lemnear said, the deck require LOTS of testing and has a really steep learning curve.

Any advices in regards to line of play?

Im really curious about strategies and I'd appreciate ideas!

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1) stay relaxed. Most mistakes come from being nervous
2) have pen&paper at hand. Make notes about mana and stormcount EVERY turn it could matter.
3) seize your opponent before you shuffle and put him onto a certain strategy.
4) mull accordingly to your Knowledge about the opponent and his deck (you can read much about that in my reports)
5) don't feel pressured to go off asap if your opponent doesn't present a clock (you can dodge Daze or shit that Way)
6) evade mulligans to 5 or lower at any cost!
7) don't feel pressured to go off fast in face of high damage
8) don't go for Ad Nauseam below 13 Life unless there's no other Option
9) Past in Flames is an Auto-Pilot vs. Decks that rely on Thoughtseize, Hymn and Liliana to Control you
10) Never underestimate the kill via natural chains
11) remember you can chain infernal Tutors for Stormcount
12) diminishing returnes in NOT a panic-button.
13) Use DR if a) EtW is not an option (Deed, etc.), b) you have excessive mana float or c) storm count for EtW is too low
14) IGG is more often useful than you might imagine.
15) Never keep hands which rely on a single resolved Tutor/cantrip on the draw.
16) use Silence to prevent gamebreakers like Show&Tell or Hymn
17) never board out Probes ... not even 1
18) never try to be the Control deck vs other Combo decks
19) Free yourself from mentally focusing on Ad Nauseam for the kill. There a dozens of other ways which newer pilots tend to miss because of that
20) stop Ad Nauseam at 4 remaining life unless you REALLY have to continue to dodge the instant kill via revealing EtW or an opposing Lightning Bolt
21) Check if you played a Land in the turn you cast Ad Nauseam. I tend to forget that often and then have to set me ablaze and jump somersault outta a window in the 13th Floor just to get that +1 mana otherwise.
22) pray I can launch HotS-Vol.3 during the weekend ;)


just from the Top of my head

Edit for everyone who cares: going -1 EtW, -1 Infernal, +2 Xantid swarms is my current plan vs. Show&Tell decks feat. Leyline of Sanctity

Against discard play artifacts, wish for PiF even if you can't go off.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Against discard play artifacts, wish for PiF even if you can't go off.

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QFT.

Only exception for wishing for PIF is an active DRS

You don't bring in any chains?

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

1) stay relaxed. Most mistakes come from being nervous
2) have pen&paper at hand. Make notes about mana and stormcount EVERY turn it could matter.
3) seize your opponent before you shuffle and put him onto a certain strategy.
4) mull accordingly to your Knowledge about the opponent and his deck (you can read much about that in my reports)
5) don't feel pressured to go off asap if your opponent doesn't present a clock (you can dodge Daze or shit that Way)
6) evade mulligans to 5 or lower at any cost!
7) don't feel pressured to go off fast in face of high damage
8) don't go for Ad Nauseam below 13 Life unless there's no other Option
9) Past in Flames is an Auto-Pilot vs. Decks that rely on Thoughtseize, Hymn and Liliana to Control you
10) Never underestimate the kill via natural chains
11) remember you can chain infernal Tutors for Stormcount
12) diminishing returnes in NOT a panic-button.
13) Use DR if a) EtW is not an option (Deed, etc.), b) you have excessive mana float or c) storm count for EtW is too low
14) IGG is more often useful than you might imagine.
15) Never keep hands which rely on a single resolved Tutor/cantrip on the draw.
16) use Silence to prevent gamebreakers like Show&Tell or Hymn
17) never board out Probes ... not even 1
18) never try to be the Control deck vs other Combo decks
19) Free yourself from mentally focusing on Ad Nauseam for the kill. There a dozens of other ways which newer pilots tend to miss because of that
20) stop Ad Nauseam at 4 remaining life unless you REALLY have to continue to dodge the instant kill via revealing EtW or an opposing Lightning Bolt
21) Check if you played a Land in the turn you cast Ad Nauseam. I tend to forget that often and then have to set me ablaze and jump somersault outta a window in the 13th Floor just to get that +1 mana otherwise.
22) pray I can launch HotS-Vol.3 during the weekend ;)


just from the Top of my head

Edit for everyone who cares: going -1 EtW, -1 Infernal, +2 Xantid swarms is my current plan vs. Show&Tell decks feat. Leyline of Sanctity

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Thanks for the advices!

Unfortunately, I won't be able to play since something else just came up. Im still planning to gold fish the deck as much as I can and probably throw a couple games against opponents since there is two standard GPTs this weekend (Providence and Las Vegas). Im stuck at work at the moment and I just keep reviewing lines of play and HotS reports. Stick with me since it's all because of those reports that I'm now playing that deck and slowly leaving my long-loved Combo Elves!

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Originally Posted by Jay_Gatz

You don't bring in any chains?

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Really, depends on my opponents exact S&T plan aka UR Wish S&T, OmniTell, SneakShow, etc. Sometimes I board them in, sometimes not; chaining Sneak Attack (or hasted creatures) compared with bouncing Omniscience makes a hell of a difference. In corner cases against a resolved Leyline, i'm completely fine with casting Ad Nauseam into EtW with several Silences and White manasources available. I don't feel convinced to board in chains for the Leylines alone

The xantids are undisputed.

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Originally Posted by Kayradis

Any advices in regards to line of play?

Im really curious about strategies and I'd appreciate ideas!

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People posted some excellent advice above, so I guess I'll just reiterate some pieces of advice that took multiple losses to really understand despite "knowing" them to be true.
- Bryant's said this countless times - be aggressive! If you have a good shot at winning if you go for it and they're unlikely to have ripped the nuts / mulliganed into it / etc, just do it! Most matchups tend to get worse as the game goes on, especially once they get to play a land. That being said, there is a thing as being too all-in. Finding that line is hard.
- Determine when it's correct to play artifact mana against discard decks. There are times when I'd prefer to discard an LED in hand than my one-of tutor, so I don't play LED. But more often I've lost because I forget to play the LEDs (or less often, Petals) that I needed and they got stripped. Usually people won't strip Petals when you have almost anything else in hand, so it's less important to play them out. Obvious exceptions like that game at SCG Atlanta against dredge where I Tutored for a second Petal and he Therapied on the guaranteed 2-for-1.

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I had a pretty interesting tournament last night. Top4-split, winning $35ish (lower turnout this week). Only 14 people, so unfortunately only 3 rounds.
Round 1 - haganbmj - Maverick
He's a good player and was pretty sure I was back on Storm, so I was feeling nervous about this matchup. I tend to not do as well against Thalia decks, so it's good that I got paired against him so I could practice against hatebears.
G1 - He mulled to 6 and kept a hand with some lands, Hierarch, Plow, and Knight. My hand was pretty mana-heavy without a tutor, so when my Ponder bricked I wasn't very confident. Fortunately he didn't draw a hatebear before I drew a Tutor and won off Ad Nauseam.
boarding: -4 Silence, -2 Duress, -1 Infernal Tutor, +2 Chain of Vapor, +3 Abrupt Decay, +1 Cabal Therapy, +1 Thoughtseize
G2 - I kept a really weird hand (on the draw) that I'd like to discuss with you guys:
2x Chrome Mox, Chain of Vapor, Ponder, Cabal Therapy, Dark Ritual, Infernal Tutor
So my thought process is if I draw a land, I'm very likely to win off of Ponder and also I have a Chain in hand if Ponder bricks. If I draw an LED I just win. There's also (seemingly) plenty of ways to win off of Ponder. If that all bricks, I can imprint Ritual and Therapy him (hopefully with some hand knowledge if I draw Probe) and play the long game. Looking back, my outs were really dependent on finding LED, so that hand may have been loose. What do you think?
In any case, I drew Wish for turn, imprinted Chain on Chrome Mox and Pondered, found LED, and Tutored for Empty for 14. He scooped.
1-0

R2 - Megadeus - TES
G1 - I win the die roll #winning. Probe him seeing no disruption but a guaranteed t2 kill. I Ponder. He Ponders. I kill him.
We laughed about how we talked about boarding in the mirror earlier that day. -1 Empty the Warrens, +1 Cabal Therapy
G2 - This game is very very grindy, but also pretty interesting to learn from. Megadeus made a couple of mistakes we talked about after the match, and I'm not presenting them here to embarrass him (he played well overall!), but rather to help teach other people in the thread what to watch out for.
He Brainstormed, then I Duressed and Therapied him off of Mine and a Petal, then played my second Petal to leave up Silence. I took Petal and Ponder leaving Rite of Flame, Brainstorm, Chrome Mox with the thought that he couldn't use Ponder to shuffle his Brainstorm lock. I think he Brainstormed again and failed to find a kill. I had Tutor, Rite of Flame, and drew Wish with Gemstone on 1, a Fetch, and a Petal, and thought hard about essentially double strip mining myself and burning a Rite to get a Thoughtseize, but decided if he had it, he had it. He imprinted RoF to Chrome Mox and Wished for a Therapy, taking my Tutor. I did nothing. He slammed the Ad Nauseam he hid with Brainstorm! He ended up going from 16 down to 4 (hadn't played a land) but stopped before he found another IMS to kill me. Here's what he revealed (not in order):
RoF, RoF, BW, Duress, Silence, Ponder, Probe, Probe, DR, IT, fetch, City of Brass
Since he had boarded out Empty, the correct play would be to continue to find another R/B source so he could Wish for Tendrils. Given that he didn't, I think the correct play was to play City and leave up Silence, then kill me with Wish for Past in Flames next turn. What he ended up doing is playing Probe (putting himself to 2), playing City, and Duressing my Wish.
I ripped Silence. My play goal for this year has been improving my bluffs and reading, so I tried carefully to make no reaction, and slump defeated in my chair (head resting on hand, shoulders forward, defeated tone of voice). Here was the second major mistake Megadeus made. He untapped at 1 (turning off both City of Brasses he had in play, leaving him a Mine and a Sea). He RoF, RoF, DR, DR (nice draw!), Wished for PiF, leaving 3 R and 3 B floating. Through all this, I'm double checking mana & storm, but careful to leave my hand on the table and act defeated - I was trying to get him to burn as many resources as possible before using Silence. The first thing he should have done is flashback Duress in case I drew Silence - that would leave him with PiF and Rituals in grave and Ponder and IT in hand - not bad! Instead he flashbacked all his rituals and Tutored and Wished, at which point I Silenced. A few turns later I drew Wish and enough mana to kill him. I did create some awkwardness by flopping my hand on the table and saying what I was going to do without actually tapping mana, which he interrupted by Silencing in response to Wish (one good rip deserves another!), but it didn't really matter.
2-0
Sorry that description is so long, but I think Storm mirrors are really interesting (as long as both players see their turn 2, as Megadeus noted!) Hopefully it's useful.

R3 - ID
Unfortunately small turnout. Nedleeds could be right that it's because of degenerate combo players like myself, but combo is not an easy thing to give up... I played 4c cascade last week and got lifetilted when I lost to UR Delver in the Quarters piloted by a bad player.
2-0-1

Quarters - haganbmj again
Fortunately I was higher seed, but I wasn't exactly thrilled to play this matchup again just in the interest of diversity.
G1 - I had a 1-lander that needed any mana source to Ad Nauseam (I had a Petal so colors not an issue). Probe saw a hand with Wasteland, Savannah, and a Thalia and I decided to not play a land. I don't think that's the correct play because he was joking that Wasteland would be good if he saw t3 (indicating he was focusing on playing Thalia) and I had 11 draws to get punished, but my thought was that there are 16 draws (RoF, DR, LP, and LED) that win and I probably lose if he Wastes me. Opinions? I ripped a City of Brass (justice), play it and Silence him on upkeep. He Wasted me, then I drew a ritual to win.
G2 - I kept hand that had a Volcanic, Chrome Mox, Ritual, Therapy, Ponder, Brainstorm, and I think a tutor. Ponder saw a kill next turn, so I decided against imprinting Ritual and blind Therapy. He played Sylvan Safekeeper and Thalia.
G3 - At this point I wanted to trying boarding out the Abrupt Decays for 3 Silence. I've been very unimpressed with Decay against Thalia.deck, and Bryant suggested that on the play I want to make my deck as streamlined as possible when I was playing against Elves at the Open. I opened on a t2 Ad Nauseam hand and won.

There were multiple interesting decision points and hands throughout this tournament, so I hope you guys can make it through the wall of text to let me know your thoughts!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phazonmuant

G2 - I kept a really weird hand (on the draw) that I'd like to discuss with you guys:
2x Chrome Mox, Chain of Vapor, Ponder, Cabal Therapy, Dark Ritual, Infernal Tutor

-snip-

RoF, RoF, BW, Duress, Silence, Ponder, Probe, Probe, DR, IT, fetch, City of Brass
Since he had boarded out Empty, the correct play would be to continue to find another R/B source so he could Wish for Tendrils.

-snip-

Quarters

G1 - I had a 1-lander that needed any mana source to Ad Nauseam (I had a Petal so colors not an issue). Probe saw a hand with Wasteland, Savannah, and a Thalia and I decided to not play a land. I don't think that's the correct play because he was joking that Wasteland would be good if he saw t3 (indicating he was focusing on playing Thalia) and I had 11 draws to get punished, but my thought was that there are 16 draws (RoF, DR, LP, and LED) that win and I probably lose if he Wastes me. Opinions? I ripped a City of Brass (justice), play it and Silence him on upkeep. He Wasted me, then I drew a ritual to win.

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Rd.1 - Ritual, Tutor + Access to T1 Ponder? A keeper

Rd.2 - to continue the flipping is the right choice here till you reach the bottom end of 2 life. With 2 Life I would Start counting the remaining Wishes/Tutors in the deck and calculate the odds.

Rd.3 - sandbaggin the lonely land in you first turn on the play is correct here. You can't afford to loose to Wasteland. The silence to prevent Thalia in T2 was smart. I usually promote to do this against threatening Show&Tell and Hymn too. You traded the Silence here essentially for another draw phase

Overall: Very good game, Sir


Edit RD.2/G2: Did you really have to burn the Petal and cast both, Duress and Therapy that turn? Did i misread or did you discard Ponder + Petal here and leave him the Brainstorm?

If that's the case, taking Brainstorm over Petal would have been much better, unless he floated the nuts. Making him draw 2 possible bricks in a Row (after the First Brainstorm) without any Chance to dig or shuffle would have been a near Auto-win at this point (He had max. 3 mana available afaik)

People think storm vs storm is a joke. That shit was intense. Some of the most thoughtful games were played in my opinion. We may not have been slamming thragtusks into each other, but we sure as hell had a very back and forth game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

People think storm vs storm is a joke. That shit was intense. Some of the most thoughtful games were played in my opinion. We may not have been slamming thragtusks into each other, but we sure as hell had a very back and forth game.

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You'll love the storm-mirror vs. ANT featured in my upcoming report... :D

I dont know why, but whenever I tested vs ANT, I just had a lot of trouble winning. Maybe he was just ripping sick, but when I wasnt going off T1, then he was always getting Probe + Therapy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Edit RD.2/G2: Did you really have to burn the Petal and cast both, Duress and Therapy that turn? Did i misread or did you discard Ponder + Petal here and leave him the Brainstorm?

If that's the case, taking Brainstorm over Petal would have been much better, unless he floated the nuts. Making him draw 2 possible bricks in a Row (after the First Brainstorm) without any Chance to dig or shuffle would have been a near Auto-win at this point (He had max. 3 mana available afaik)

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I know that I burned a Petal to Cabal Therapy, but you're right that it seems very incorrect to not take both cantrips... I don't remember exactly what I took, all I know is that I have Ponder and Petal crossed out on my notepad. I know that he had a Petal in play when he cast Ad Naus, so maybe he just played it next turn. Megadeus, do you remember?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I dont know why, but whenever I tested vs ANT, I just had a lot of trouble winning. Maybe he was just ripping sick, but when I wasnt going off T1, then he was always getting Probe + Therapy.

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ANT has 4 modes:

1) massive discarding from the start, in which it pretty much equals the common BGx matchup sans any pressure
2) cantripping for 1-2 turns while being slower than TES and gett'n killed
3) drawing the nuts
4) loosing hard to Silence