[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

I haven't written on this site in forever...took forever to remember my password (over a year) and the email password function hadn't worked for me...anyway.

I played in the SCG Legacy Open in St Louis this weekend with BUG Delver. Made day 2 with a record 7-2 with my only losses being abzan Pox and lands on day 1.
r1 0-2 loss to abzan box
r2 2-0 win against infect
r3 0-2 loss to lands
r4 2-0 win against naya zoo
r5 2-0 win against 4color deathblade that had 3 jace,v and 2 jace tms in it
r6 beat titan post or something
r7 2-0 win against burn
r8 beat 12 post or mud or something
r9 think it was 12 post or mud or something again can't remember
7-2

Day 2 went rougher.
r10 i 2-0d storm
r11 lost 1-2 to painter (chris n who got 12th). i won g1 and think i punted game 2. lost game 3 to his infinite reb/pyro
r12 lost to rug delver (good matchup but i drew 1 of my 11 removal before end of game 3) :-| think it's the first or 2nd time ive ever lost to rug delver with bug in like 2 years
r13 lost to shardless
r14 beat elves (tough match was pretty stoked to win in 3 right before fire alarm went off)
r15 ID against infect

mana base pretty standard except running a swamp over 4th wasteland
12 main creatures + 1 tombstalker
1 jace tms 1 liliana
1 spell pierce 1 disfigure main
4 of normal stuff except only 3 hymn

sb fairly standard. can give more details if people want

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Originally Posted by LandDestroyer

I haven't written on this site in forever...took forever to remember my password (over a year) and the email password function hadn't worked for me...anyway.

I played in the SCG Legacy Open in St Louis this weekend with BUG Delver. Made day 2 with a record 7-2 with my only losses being abzan Pox and lands on day 1.
r1 0-2 loss to abzan box
r2 2-0 win against infect
r3 0-2 loss to lands
r4 2-0 win against naya zoo
r5 2-0 win against 4color deathblade that had 3 jace,v and 2 jace tms in it
r6 beat titan post or something
r7 2-0 win against burn
r8 beat 12 post or mud or something
r9 think it was 12 post or mud or something again can't remember
7-2

Day 2 went rougher.
r10 i 2-0d storm
r11 lost 1-2 to painter (chris n who got 12th). i won g1 and think i punted game 2. lost game 3 to his infinite reb/pyro
r12 lost to rug delver (good matchup but i drew 1 of my 11 removal before end of game 3) :-| think it's the first or 2nd time ive ever lost to rug delver with bug in like 2 years
r13 lost to shardless
r14 beat elves (tough match was pretty stoked to win in 3 right before fire alarm went off)
r15 ID against infect

mana base pretty standard except running a swamp over 4th wasteland
12 main creatures + 1 tombstalker
1 jace tms 1 liliana
1 spell pierce 1 disfigure main
4 of normal stuff except only 3 hymn

sb fairly standard. can give more details if people want

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Hey man congrats for making day 2. The build your using runs heavy black for hymns or leaning towards blue? In my experience, playing against burn is hell. Can't seem to win against it. What was your sb for the tourney?

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Originally Posted by sumbahdy

Hey man congrats for making day 2. The build your using runs heavy black for hymns or leaning towards blue? In my experience, playing against burn is hell. Can't seem to win against it. What was your sb for the tourney?

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My decks run more blue. I'd rather fight top decks with counterspells than discard. My sideboard 15 are:

2 V Clique
1 envelop
1 submerge
1 grafdiggers cage
1 surgical extraction
1 dismember
1 disfigure
2 golgari charm
1 maelstrom pulse
2 spell pierce
1 flusterstorm
1 thoughtseize

so my only discard in the 75 are 3 hymn main, 1 lotv main, 1 thoughtseize sb

I've always beaten burn. Protecting deathrite is priority #1 for me. Then being conscious of price of progress and not making those worse for you than they already are (i run 1 basic in the main). boarding in counter magic helps.

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Originally Posted by LandDestroyer

My decks run more blue. I'd rather fight top decks with counterspells than discard.

so my only discard in the 75 are 3 hymn main, 1 lotv main, 1 thoughtseize sb

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This is the black heavy discard version you're playing by the sound of things. The blue version sumbahdy is talking about runs zero hymn, zero lili, zero bayou and stifles.

I really can't agree with running a basic swamp in TA. It can't cast Delver, Daze, cantrips or any of the soft countermagic! That's huge. Burn isn't seen in enough numbers to warrant the basic, and if you're afraid of other wastelands decks bar Lands (which requires a much more extreme SB plan than a basic), loam seems like a much better option than handicapping draws with the basic.

if you are interested in a feedback the only cards I fear of BUG are Stifle, Wasteland, Abrupt Decay and Dark Confidant.

for discards there is always Brainstorm and library shelter with Top.

Stifle also allows to kill Sensei's Top in conjunction with Abrupt Decay

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Originally Posted by Poron

if you are interested in a feedback the only cards I fear of BUG are Stifle, Wasteland, Abrupt Decay and Dark Confidant.

for discards there is always Brainstorm and library shelter with Top.

Stifle also allows to kill Sensei's Top in conjunction with Abrupt Decay

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You shouldn't fear wasteland if you play your lands correctly. Bob is probably the biggest threat we can make.

Using a stifle + decay on a top is so inefficient it hurts to think about.

Discard isn't effective vs Miracles for the reasons you say, but I constantly see people board in crap like Thoughtseize. So, so bad :frown:

to cut a top out when you have same sheninangans around can be crucial.

never said you should do it everytime just saying that card disadvantage can be tollerated if it saves your day.

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Originally Posted by Poron

to cut a top out when you have same sheninangans around can be crucial.

never said you should do it everytime just saying that card disadvantage can be tollerated if it saves your day.

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Sure, but decaying in response to a fetch leads to the same -1 CD, is a mana less and is likely to come up a lot more, especially as you want the Stifles for Terminus or EtA. While the play does what it does, it's not a good one.

Speaking from a purely Stifle build perspective, 99% of the time I let top resolve and never fight over removing it. We're playing a tempo oriented game, for Miracles to spend mana on top gives us better angles to strangle that mana. Decay deals with CB and Stifle deals with Miracles, you just have to pick your spots wisely and not overextend blah blah. Jace IS a problematic card as we don't have access to bolt and REB, so using Pieces and FoWs wisely is crucial. I'm wandering slightly off the point, but I think you're approaching the MU from the wrong perspective (a Miracles player) and how you expect the TA player to play. Maybe some people do fight over top, which may work on occasion, but isn't correct in my mind (talking about roughly T1-4 here, not late game).

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Originally Posted by Dissection

This is the black heavy discard version you're playing by the sound of things. The blue version sumbahdy is talking about runs zero hymn, zero lili, zero bayou and stifles.

I really can't agree with running a basic swamp in TA. It can't cast Delver, Daze, cantrips or any of the soft countermagic! That's huge. Burn isn't seen in enough numbers to warrant the basic, and if you're afraid of other wastelands decks bar Lands (which requires a much more extreme SB plan than a basic), loam seems like a much better option than handicapping draws with the basic.

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The swamp is so that I can still cast DRS so I can cast other spells and activate him to continue making them lose life in the face of a blood moon or cast disfigure on a magus of the moon. It used to be a forest so I could krosan grip a blood moon.

Ya, if that's the definition then i guess i'm heavy black b/c I dont run stifle.

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Originally Posted by Poron

if you are interested in a feedback the only cards I fear of BUG are Stifle, Wasteland, Abrupt Decay and Dark Confidant.

for discards there is always Brainstorm and library shelter with Top.

Stifle also allows to kill Sensei's Top in conjunction with Abrupt Decay

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Guessing you're on miracles?

I know how insane bob can be, like sylvan library, I just don't enjoy playing those on turn 2 so I never end up running them.

I've never sleeved up the stifle version. What advantages do you consider it to have over the non-stifle version?

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Originally Posted by LandDestroyer

The swamp is so that I can still cast DRS so I can cast other spells and activate him to continue making them lose life in the face of a blood moon or cast disfigure on a magus of the moon. It used to be a forest so I could krosan grip a blood moon.

Ya, if that's the definition then i guess i'm heavy black b/c I dont run stifle.



Guessing you're on miracles?

I know how insane bob can be, like sylvan library, I just don't enjoy playing those on turn 2 so I never end up running them.

I've never sleeved up the stifle version. What advantages do you consider it to have over the non-stifle version?

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I play 8 basic lands. If I can resolve all my fetchlands without fear, I only have to resolve a Terminus mid game and a Jace/Entreat late game.

Sylvan Library, also, is one of the best threath you have

Stifle on the miracle trigger seems pretty reasonable. In RUG, it's how you beat Miracles, by applying pressure and using Force/Pierce/Stifle to stop Terminus. I don't see why it wouldn't also work for BUG.

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Originally Posted by emidln

Stifle on the miracle trigger seems pretty reasonable. In RUG, it's how you beat Miracles, by applying pressure and using Force/Pierce/Stifle to stop Terminus. I don't see why it wouldn't also work for BUG.

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Ya, though I haven't felt like miracles has been that huge of a problem...though that can be a memory problem since before DTT got banned I was on Jesaki Stoneblade which beat miracles...but i feel like before ktk came out I was feeling favored in the miracles matchup with bug delver

Here I present the deck I have been play testing alot lately on Cockatrice. I guess it's not a new thing to mix together RUG and BUG Delver, but here it is. "Dark Threshold":

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 True-Name Nemesis

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Dismember
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce

4 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand

SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Disfigure
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique

Six untouchable creatues feels great and gain you alot of card advantage by nullifying their removal. With that and Stifle for Terminus, you have a great matchup against Miracles.
The SB may be tuned even more. I welcome suggestions!

I was thinking of playing this deck with a faerie flavor.

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Wasteland

4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Bitterblossom
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Abrubt Decay
2 Umezawa's Jitte

It's just the old tempo list I was running with red switched out for green. Getting Abrupt decay over terminate and goyf over Tombstalker.

I have not seen this deck posting any decent results lately and am wondering if it's due to the upswing of shardless now or perhaps this deck has lost its "dtb" status?

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Originally Posted by Madmankevinx

I have not seen this deck posting any decent results lately and am wondering if it's due to the upswing of shardless now or perhaps this deck has lost its "dtb" status?

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In St louis BUG delver was in a 3 way for the most played archetype on day 2.

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...breakdown.html

Shardless Sultai:
14
Storm:
8
Miracles:
8
Temur Delver:
7
Sultai Delver:
7
Elves:
7

Of those 1 made top 32 at 25th place
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=94131

I made top 64 piloting the deck but that doesn't get your list published :-P

I think people are expecting lots of delver decks so they are gunning for us. Definitely lots of shardless hurts us.

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Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac

8-1 at GP Sea, BUG's been good to me so far. If I have a good day tomorrow, I might write up some kind of report.

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Nice! Keep it going! Avenge me! ;)

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Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac

8-1 at GP Sea, BUG's been good to me so far. If I have a good day tomorrow, I might write up some kind of report.

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Sweet. I'd love to see a report. I've been playing Shardless a lot lately, but it's reminded me of why I was primarily on Delver instead for so long.

Tomoharu Saito - BUG Delver

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
1 True-Name Nemesis

4 Ponder
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Disfigure

4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland

Sideboard (15)
4 Dark Confidant
3 Submerge
1 Pithing Needle
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Marsh Casualties
2 Envelop

Discuss

Sideboard is bad. Maindeck is suboptimal. Play my list instead

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Originally Posted by ironclad8690

Tomoharu Saito - BUG Delver

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
1 True-Name Nemesis

4 Ponder
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Disfigure

4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland

Sideboard (15)
4 Dark Confidant
3 Submerge
1 Pithing Needle
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Marsh Casualties
2 Envelop

Discuss

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Saito's list is geared for a very specific gauntlet expectation. Some of the choices seem extremely narrow, and I'd venture to guess that he was expecting to see a lot of combo and Miracles, and also the choice to run 3 Submerge is a bit narrow (though Submerge is certainly a huuuugggeee blowout when it's good.) 4 Dark Confidant is also a fairly big commitment, and I'm not sure that BUG needs all that much more assistance with beating combo/miracles -- seems like 1-2 Sylvan Library can do a functionally similar thing without the same risk and then you have more slots to deal with Midrange and other miscellaneous problems.

The Saito build runs the risk of meeting a bad/mediocre matchup and then not having any or enough SB tools to handle games 2/3. There are also some sideboard cards that are huge blowouts as a singleton that are worth the slots (e.g. Null Rod). I agree that Goddik's list seems quite a bit more capable, even though the results may seem skewed. I think Saito's 75 was a good choice for *this* tournament and going into it with a few byes, but it's not a list I would recommend for smaller or mid-size local tournaments.

I mean, Saito was a win away from top 8 and Calcano's hot draws aside, he'd probably have been there, so while his build certainly doesn't excite me in any way, I honestly don't think it is bad.

For this week, I am toying with the idea of running the Stifle build, just to keep my local meta on it's toes. I'll see how I feel as we get closer to Friday.

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Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac

Sorry, I suck at Magic, no report. Had one of those days where I almost believe there is a God and he hates me.

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That's too bad. What kind of matches did you get?

What was your list?

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Originally Posted by H

I mean, Saito was a win away from top 8 and Calcano's hot draws aside, he'd probably have been there, so while his build certainly doesn't excite me in any way, I honestly don't think it is bad.

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Oh no, don't get me wrong -- the list is fine. Dark Confidant is definitely a strong option and I can see where the full play set could be helpful. The sideboard just seems otherwise slightly lacking. For example, Grixis will be a rougher matchup than it typically would be since you can't bring in Submerge and have very few answers to a resolved Gurmag Angler. There are just a few tweaks that I would definitely want to do if I were bringing the deck to my local events.

I think 4 Dark Confidant might be a key component towards making the Shardless BUG matchup more favorable. Toxic Deluge aside, that deck generally has to deal with creatures 1-for-1, so Bob could help TA keep up with their card advantage. Envelop also serves as a hard counter for AVision (and Deluge, among others).

I would definitely want to fit a Sylvan Library somewhere in the 75. It'd be helpful with managing damage from dark confidant triggers.

I think the real conclusion to draw from both Saito's list (and here I agree with wcm8 - it's clearly been tumed for a specific anticipated metagame) and Goddik's more general list is that the format is as midrangey as its been since DRS was printed. I'm not sure what this means for building this or any other BUG deck yet, but having big, hard-to-answer threats clearly matters at least as much as tempo right now, as doea having a reliable sideboard plan for grinding out the midgame.

On that note, I've been on SB Loam + Tar Pit and they've been excellent for that purpose. Wasteland recursion is surprisingly not terrible against Lands if you keep them off Manabond and Exploration and makes Punishing Fire far more manageable while you look for graveyard hate. It's also huge in the BGx pseudo-mirror and backbreaking in the actual BUG Delver mirror. I imagine it's also great against Grixis since they also lack a permanent solution to Tar Pit and their Bolts are already taxed.

Taking this to my local tournament tonight:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Gurmag Angler
1 True-Name Nemesis

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Liliana of the Veil

4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest

Sideboard:
2 Spell Pierce
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Disfigure
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Dread of Night
1 Dismember
1 Life from the Loam
2 Golgari Charm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod

Hopefully with the True-Name Nemesis, 2 Surgical, 1 Loam, 1 Pithing Needle, and 1 Clique from the sideboard I will be able to win against lands. Other than that I have to worry about mentor miracles, sneak attack, infect, grixis delver, 4c delver, shardless bug, ANT, and uwr stoneblade. Let you guys know how it goes.

I finished 10-4-1 with no byes at the grand prix.

Day 1.

(W) Esper Deathblade
(W) Merfolk
(W) Sneak & Show
(W) MUD splashing red for Goblin Welder
(L) Shardless
(W) Merfok
(DRAW) Miracles
(W) Miracles
(W) Grixis Delver

Day 2:

(L) Shardless
(W) Death & Taxes
(L) Death & Taxes
(W) Miracles
(L) Miracles
(W) Storm - ANT

My list:

4 Delver
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Tombstalker

1 Spell Pierce
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
1 Sylvan Library
1 Disfigure
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Liliana of the Veil

3 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rain Forest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:

1 Surgical Extraction
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Krosan Grip
2 Golgari Charm
1 Dread of Night
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Envelop
1 Vendillion Clique
1 Murderous Cut
1 Chill

Not sure about the sideboard, until about an hour before the event I had a stack of 25 or so cards I was trying to decide between for the last few slots.

Mini report:

Round 1: Crushed by Pox (this is a tough matchup to sideboard for, if anyone could give me a guide that would be awesome).

Round 2: Crushed Grixis Delver

Round 3: Crushed UWR stoneblade (with maindeck blood moon at that, our meta is pretty inbred).

Good for 2nd place due to 6 people, and a lot of other people drew unintentionally (that is what happens when you have a durlde metagame with Lands, Pox, UWR Blade, and Bant Stoneblade).

Awesome report, thanks!

And congrats on the Uh, the uh...lose the game trigger :)

So I have a question about budget builds. I do have Forces and two Wastelands and want to build the Hymn version of the deck. No duals or goyfs though. What can I get away with playing? I know duals would be priority due to the reserved list, then on to goyfs? Not really sure what to run in the meantime though. I'm not shy, I'll run shocks while I save for duals ;)


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Originally Posted by Dutch253

So I have a question about budget builds. I do have Forces and two Wastelands and want to build the Hymn version of the deck. No duals or goyfs though. What can I get away with playing? I know duals would be priority due to the reserved list, then on to goyfs? Not really sure what to run in the meantime though. I'm not shy, I'll run shocks while I save for duals ;)

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The lack of both duals and Goyfs probably makes this deck on a budget not a very good choice. If I had to build something though, I'd go with the Stifle version like 'Nilla Pac posted just above and substitute Confidants for Goyfs (and adding some more maindeck removal). It's not going to be great, but I think the Hymn version would be basically unplayable without Goyf.

If you can live with losing Hymn (and my feeling is you'd probably have to be be actually competitive) I would look more at bUrg Tempo using Young Pyromancer to replace Goyf.

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Originally Posted by Dutch253

So I have a question about budget builds. I do have Forces and two Wastelands and want to build the Hymn version of the deck. No duals or goyfs though. What can I get away with playing? I know duals would be priority due to the reserved list, then on to goyfs? Not really sure what to run in the meantime though. I'm not shy, I'll run shocks while I save for duals ;)




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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You need the Duals to truly make Hymn work. Stick with BURG, you could lean towards the Stifle build, and also look at using Mongoose and Young Pyro as a replacement for Goyf.

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Originally Posted by Jo11ygrnreefer

You need the Duals to truly make Hymn work. Stick with BURG, you could lean towards the Stifle build, and also look at using Mongoose and Young Pyro as a replacement for Goyf.

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I'm really just looking for something to mess around with while I save for duals and goyfs. I'm not looking to win any GPs or anything. I was going to go with UW Stoneblade but that's a whole different animal (tundras etc).


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I've been doing testing for SCG NJ and have been trying out the Stifle version of BUG since I have a RUG background. I've found that the lands matchup is pretty abysmal. I knew going into this that this matchup was bad, but RUG at least has Mongoose to dodge maze and bolts to close the game out. BUG has 1-2 TNNs and I guess Stifling Maze of Ith to get in with Tarmogoyf? Is there anything else I'm missing to avoid this matchup being a bye for my opponent?

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Originally Posted by Xerlic

I've been doing testing for GP NJ and have been trying out the Stifle version of BUG since I have a RUG background. I've found that the lands matchup is pretty abysmal. I knew going into this that this matchup was bad, but RUG at least has Mongoose to dodge maze and bolts to close the game out. BUG has 1-2 TNNs and I guess Stifling Maze of Ith to get in with Tarmogoyf? Is there anything else I'm missing to avoid this matchup being a bye for my opponent?

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Well, preboard, I am pretty sure you just lose. Post board, it's really going to depend on your sideboard configuration. The Lands matchup, even though I don't usually run the Stifle version, almost always has two Surgical Extractions, a Pithing Needle, and a Winter Orb. Believe me that Winter Orb is going to ruin their day. I think in the Stifle version you should also have a Life from the Loam in the board which can also help. Heck, I usually even bring in my Null Rod, because, while it isn't great, Daze is usually pretty bad.

What does your sideboard look like?

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Originally Posted by H

What does your sideboard look like?

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Here's my latest configuration. Obviously, nothing is set in stone hence the purpose of testing.

2 Disfigure
1 Dread of Night
1 Flusterstorm
2 Golgari Charm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Library
2 Thoughtseize
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Can't Remember. I believe it's either a second Flusterstorm or an Envelop.

Winter Orb sounds like a fantastic idea and also helps with the Miracles matchup. I've gone back and forth with Loam when I play RUG, but I can also give it a shot in BUG. Thanks.

My reasoning for almost always having a second Surgical is that in almost every matchup where you need it, you absolutely have to have it or you lose. Dredge, Lands, Reanimator, Oops, even Jund where you can really lose to Punishing Fire.

Winter Orb is also useful versus Couldpost decks, or MUD, in addition to Miracles. I think it's a great sideboard card at the moment, I'd definitely be packing one in almost any Delver deck.

Winter Orb is fantastic. I started with one in my SB then bumped it up to two, it gives you a great edge vs big mana decks.

Current SB is

2 Dread of Night
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Flusterstorm
1 Null Road
2 Winter Orb
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Jitte
1 Illness in the Ranks
1 Submerge

Although I'm not going to lie, I haven't played BUG Delver since DTT got banned (Shardless is good again). The Illness in the Ranks at least should be replaced.

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Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac

If you're using shocks, consider Death's Shadow. Goes well with probes, thoughtsiezes, etc. I believe there's been U/B tempo decks with this card that have done well at SCG opens a few times.

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Not to mention that Probe goes well with Stifle too.

I was never really impressed with Flusterstorm out of the board. I don't really like too much soft permission, I find they can often play around or through it. Our boards differ a great deal because of our metas too. I do like Golgari Charm though, because most people forget the "hidden" regenerate your creatures mode.

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Originally Posted by 'Nilla Pac

Yeah, I forgot to mention I regenerated my Deathrite Shaman against a storm player who boarded in Pyroclasm (not sure why that was brought in, but whatever). If I go true-names, I might have to switch the charms out for Marsh Casualties though.

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The double Black for Casualties kind of sucks, especially since there is no Bayou, but it does also allow you some "techy" plays like swinging your Goyfs into theirs so they have to block, then Casualties to kill them after damage.

I agree though, with True-Name, I think Charm is just too much of a non-bo.