Fucking cringe, mateQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
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Fucking cringe, mateQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
https://sayingimages.com/wp-content/...-your-meme.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Lava Snacks
Well in America it used to be synonymous with the "moral majority" but now adays I'd say it best describes non voters who are becoming more active. In part because aging millennials have has enough of the Boomer's shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
But this isn't the politics thread so I'll leave the lesson at that.
Well it's basically the politics thread of the Source, isn't it? That's one way to explain/understand the difficultiy in carrying out discussions and why many people seem so offended by the discussions here, they probably are by political discussions too [edit: well I'll have to include myself there too, I can get quite annoyed with some, as I perceive, narrow views sometimes, both in politics and hete] . I get curious about what you mean by boomer's shit but that I guess is not for this thread after all..Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
It's centrism, op.Quote:
Originally Posted by pettdan
So when exactly is C19 going to be legal in paper (and Wrenn illegal :tongue: )?
It was legal yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Wren will be illegal hopefully a week after Monday. Or Monday itself when playing online
On what planet is Wrenn worthy of a ban? To quote David Spade "hi, i'm earth, have we met?"Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
Is it powerful? Yes. Is it too powerful? Not by a long shot.
It's not blue, but very good. Must be OP, keep the status quo, ban it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
/s (?)
Yeah, I would never ban this card.Quote:
Originally Posted by ahg113
Just for the sake of discussion, what does WOTC need to do to keep a good card from being co-opted by the blue shell? On the face of it, RG is a pretty unsplashable mana requirement, but Wrenn and Six most often appears in blue decks. I feel like WOTC made a reasonable effort to make this card good and also not just automatically slot into blue decks, yet here we are.
The only way I see is to give card selection/ interaction of equivalent power to other colors, since that is the only powerful thing that blue wouldn't co-opt since they already have a plethora of options. Every other powerful printing will either be too expensive (and inefficient to play in non-specialized, non blue shells) or will be able to be splashed in a blue shell. It is an asymmetrical relationship between blue and other colors, where blue gets access to all the goodies that other colors have by virtue of its strengths, yet none of the other colors have access to the same level of goodies blue gets (stack interaction and card selection). Cards like stoneforge, wrenn, deathrite fit in and benefit non blue decks, but blue decks just utilize them better for the most part. People think cards like Griselbrand, Depths and whatnot are just stupid cards, but we are at a point where the only way other colors compete is by playing these 'stupid cards' since most of the time they simply cant compete in terms of stack interaction and card selection while having the same power level blue decks have access to. Cards like Veil of Summer are a step in the right direction I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by ESG
Anything with low cc and strong synergy with fetchlands is liable to find its way into the xerox shell. People have been playing 3 and 4 color U-shell stuff forever, it's a little silly to expect an RG in the casting cost to be a big hurdle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ESG
Article isn't available yet, but the link to it says "changes for Standard, Modern and Vintage."
No shocks there, likely all the predictable ones. Although I have no idea what would change is Standard, but I also don't really care.
Can you cast it off islands? No?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Ban.
So Gaak axed, and Karn Karntrolled?Quote:
Originally Posted by H
Big shakeups in Modern and Vintage and as usual radio silence with legacy. Vintage receives far more attention as a format which is honestly mind-boggling.
>War of the Spark, Modern Horizons, and Core Set 2020 have been among the most impactful sets for Vintage in years.
Could easily apply to Legacy as well but they seem to forget the format exists.
Guys, Modern is getting stone forge!
Way more than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
https://i.imgur.com/792i9aA.png
The fact that you can cast it off a Tropical Island and Volcanic Island, and aren't radically punished meant it has zero hope of avoiding the blue decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus
Standard: Rampaging Ferocidon unbannedQuote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
Modern
Hogaak, banned
Faithless looting Banned
Stoneforge - UNBANNED
Vintage
new karn - restricted
Mystic Forge restricted
Mental misstep restricted
GGT restricted
Fastbong is UN-restricted. Effective 8/30, magic online effective noon today, PT, arena effective 9/4.
Now they too can make a worse UW deck, losing access to wraths. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
Magic card market doesn't work anymore when i try to access stoneforge mystic's page :)
So people seriously think this is a hot new tech that will win tournaments, caw blade style?
I feel just the opposite is actually the fact of the matter. Legacy is in a relatively "good" place, people are playing it and there aren't any "obvious" actions that need to be taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by simdude
People's individual subjected feelings though? Everyone's got a boatload of those.
Vintage was in a place where almost everyone who did play it Online was just not any more. They had to do something. Legacy is fine and in a fine place.
I'm baffled that Looting was banned. I don't follow Modern, but in what kind of format is a card as innocuous as Looting worthy of a ban? Is Modern even a real format?
Not really. I mean, I'm sure some people want them to play with them, but likely most of the people jumping on them right now are out the make some "fast-cash" on the spec.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
Modern derives most of its value from GY synergy, and it’s an incredibly linear format. When you have no risk of meaningful interaction (FoW/Wasteland/Daze), Looting becomes an easy and safe pseudo-ramp/mana enabler. Honestly with this banned, they could have probably left Hogaak alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass House
Recognizing cards as secretly being mana engines explains this ban. It’s a good ban, and next on the chopping block is going to be Mox Opal (maybe this card already is banned; don’t really keep up with modern other than it’s ability to screw up card prices).
Looting was stupid in Modern. It was a good, long overdue ban.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass House
I'm more baffled by the SFM unban - not because it's too strong (it's more than fine), but because WotC thinks it's still a dangerous card that might need revaluation later on like Golgari-Grave Troll.
I'm amazed that Ancient Stirrings didn't get hit. That card has never been in anything resembling a "fair" deck, its the single best cantrip in Modern, bar none now. That plus the London Mulligan and new Karn means Tron almost always "wins" on turn 3. Maybe Force of Negation is enough to stop it now that everyone doesn't have to spend so many slots on the graveyard, but I kinda doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
SFM is fine, it'll be nice to see creature decks using equipment again. Wish they'd ban Griselbrand and Emrakul, it would be nice to see some fatties that don't immediately end the game see play. Especially Brand, but that'll probably never happen.
True about Stoneforge the card in standard was pretty busted, but I feel like good answers just didn't exist. Also the deck had Jace, ponder, leak, preordain, and spell pierce. Was pretty nutsQuote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Fucking called it, hogaak ban and sfm unban for moden, no changes to legacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by H
Looting ban is slightly surprising. This really nerfs a couple strong decks: red/izzet phoenix and traditional dredge. It also hamstrings value-based looting decks like mardu pyromancer and death's shadow variants. I'm not a fan of banning looting, honestly. I feel like Hogaak was enough. *shrug*
Stoneforge up y'all!
Was Hogaak popular in Modern? Like I understand a lot of people played him, but was that because it was clearly the best deck, or did people like playing that deck?
I ask because I recall a few times in the past when meaty bans rolled through Modern, there would be a good chunk of players affected that pick up and move to Legacy. I can imagine those that still have the kit for the old Hogaak/Bridge from Below/Altar of Dementia just say fuck it and grab Cabal Therapy and whatever else they're now open to playing. Then for a few months the local meta gets really weird with new faces seeing complex interactions for the first time and a bunch of budget stuff while they either buy up or decide maybe the format isn't for them.
Based on a lot of talk, it seemed like people hated to play against him but also kind of hated to play with him as well, so maybe everybody just rejoices and nothing changes? Last one I remember was a bunch of new players all coming after Splinter Twin got banned. But Splinter Twin seemed to have a more equal representation on either side, there were lots of For/Against discussions. So either the pro-Hogaak crowd is shamed into silence, or they just don't exist, in which case the ban won't really change the format population.
I mean, I guess somewhere there are people who like playing Hogaak in Modern. Then again, there are people who like...well, lets just leave it at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
Not that I am actively hunting it, but I have yet to come across any comment from anyone disagreeing with the Hogaak ban. I've seen a few people quibble with the Looting ban, but really no outright complaints. I don't think you will see any "mass exodus" on the back of this. There might be some disgruntled Phoenix players, but I doubt there are really all that many that didn't entertain the possibility this might happen.
I don't think I knew anyone that thought Hogaak shouldn't have been banned. I think the people that played it were just like, yeah this deck is dumb as shit but I'll play it and win while it's legal
Since 2011:
Modern- 24 bannings
Vintage- 12 restrictions
Legacy- 6 bannings
I heard a lot of people were grumbling about having to play hogaak, and Hogaak was only at three or so bucks so I doubt there's a lot of Gaak Stans hanging around.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
Yeah, it was. At the GP this weekend it was 13% of day 1 decks (the next closest being 8% mono-red, the deck most likely to beat it), which progressed into 22% of the day 2 decks, and then 5/8 of the top 8 and 3/4 of the top 4 decks. The deck was far and away the most broken deck Modern has ever seen, by at least any statistical metric you want to use. It warped the metagame around it so hard that Leyline of the Void was the most played card in the format, and even then it could pretty easily win through it with 4x Assassin's Trophy and 4x Force of Vigor post-board.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
The biggest problem was that the only card that could effectively cast it from being played quickly enough was Leyline, and even cards like Path to Exile weren't always effective since they had Carrion Feeder to dodge it. I haven't seen a single person who was outraged by that ban, which is extremely rare for the internet. Everyone saw it coming.
Faithless Looting reactions also seem to be surprisingly tame. It takes a lot of fun fringe decks out of contention, which sucks a lot, but it's kind of similar to how Sensei's Divining Top got hit in Legacy. Rock decks were playing it as a 2-of, and so were some other non-blue decks that wanted the card selection, but they weren't the ones abusing it. People seem generally pretty happy about these.
And people are very happy about Stoneforge Mystic. I wonder if the community outcry before the ban list update pushed WotC into unbanning it, since there was so many calls to unban it.
So I was looking up metagame cards on tcdecks last week. I don't play Modern but I decided to check out what their metagame looked like. Leyline of the Void was the #1 played card by a wide margin. The rest of the Top 10 were basically the Hogaak deck (Hogaak, Faithless Looting, Bloodghast). I am, therefor, not at all surprised by the bannings. It looked like the format was pretty fucked.
StoneForge Mistyc in Modern, it is not only Caw Blade.
She opens some options for D&T, Dead Guy Ale, Maverick or WBG. It is a fresh wind to the format especially after the Hoggaak Era.
I really expected anything in legacy, maybe next time.
I think (perhaps falsely) that with GP ATL looming they didn't want to ban or unban anything in fear of people getting pissed for whatever reason and complaining or cancelling their GP trips