wow...mindbreak trap is crazy....now we must go off w/ a silence/orim's chant/duress....the aggro matchups are no longer a gimme w/o protection post zendikar
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wow...mindbreak trap is crazy....now we must go off w/ a silence/orim's chant/duress....the aggro matchups are no longer a gimme w/o protection post zendikar
I think storm combo should seriously call it quits now. Why bother trying to beat this card, its going to be joined with Force and Counterbalance half of the time. The other half of the time your going to be hit with it from nonblue decks!Quote:
Originally Posted by lilrikki2000
Seriously, quit. It's obvious that they had eternal magic in mind this time around. Boosting aggro and killing the degenerate mechanic known as storm.
I know there is no Vault/key combo to swap to but there is still grindstone.
If a deck already has CB/Top and FoW, I don't think they'll be needing this Trap out of the SB for combo. This card would only see play in decks without blue, and if that's the case, the only thing that would change would be that Storm players wouldn't be siding out Chants anymore at all.
Come on guys. The sky is not falling. Solidarity will be hit he hardest.
I don't honestly know if it'll see much play outside of true aggro (goblins, elves), since it doesn't deal with our chants which have always been the problematic spells for permission based decks. Just leave in some chants.Quote:
Originally Posted by whienot
I doubt it will stay in aggro boards. It will be tried, no doubt, but without any kind of cantrip/draw/filter it won't be found consistantly. Even then, as mentioned, it won't help against chant/silence.
The trap card is really nothing more than a situational FoW against this deck. I'd rather my opponent side that in than Chants or discard. Honestly, I think it's horrible and wont see competitive play. Who's going to board it? Everyone playing blue wont bother, everyone else with white would rather play Chant.
Ok, Mindbreak Trap ..... so. If someone is honestly dumb enough to put a useless card like this in their SB for a matchup they will rarely ever see, more power too them. This card is no better than ..... Stifle. If aggro decks want to play this, who cares? Duress and Chants stop it. All this means is they will be changing to different forms of hate and combo will adapt to whatever combination of cards they are running, answer them, and win shortly afterward.
There is honestly no reason to run this in a SB over cards like Null Rod, Teeg or Cannonist since those cards can be used in other matchups. But if someone honestly feels the need to run this in their SB as a way of beating storm combo because their meta is all storm combo ... GL I guess, maybe the combo player won't have any clue what they are doing .....
But see the problem is that as long as Chant is the spell that gets countered you can try to combo all you want. Mindbreak will get you in the end. I don't see the point in suffering such an uphill battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaunder
LED is still legal, swap to Ichorid or even Belcher.. At least belcher can play ESG's and less than 3 spells a turn if it needs to.
Why wouldn't you play it running blue. It's a 4 drop for counterbalance to play with to help shore up stax and counter Ill Gotten Gains. It still is a counterspell that will probably be worse against daze and better against Counterbalances for blue mirrors.Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshine
I think Chant was a crutch to begin with. Now your more than reliant on it. Like I said if Chant gets countered by.. lets say counterbalance, how do you then stop Mindbreak?
Wizards very clearly decided to fix the problem that was storm.
At most it is a new counter to stop the Storm mechanic, but that doesn't make the whole deck dead by any means. Combo has always had to play around control decks, and has always been susceptible to countermagic, that's not new to Magic. So at best this new card makes Storm into a normal combo deck playing around counters. Also, what you say presumes they draw one and it doesn't get disrupted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane of the Living
So your telling me that now that there is a card printed that says...Quote:
Originally Posted by MMogg
0 MANA
INSTANT
EXILE ANY NUMBER OF SPELLS
..somehow won't be a bigger problem than Stifle. Than Force of Will? Stifle still needs one blue mana. Force still needs one blue card (and one life).
This is it folks, if your still playing storm combo onces this card hits the community your a masocist. Every tournament will be a migrane waiting to happen no matter your success. I think it's time to move on and finally make some innovations. Adding more and more chant and discard just waters down the combo more and more.
If your on the side defending storm your only sitting in a sinking ship. Every great player knows when to stop playing a deck and when to start playing another.
Storm is a degenerate ability, I think everyone knows that, and all this new card does is make it a little less degenerate by providing a counter to the Tendrils. It might as well say "counter Storm". That being said, if you look at it like that, all that has happened is that Storm has been made into a "normal" combo by being able to be countered. But that is only one card that can counter it. 4 cards in a 60 card deck against a deck that is completely attuned to the combo. The combo is far from dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane of the Living
Edit: By the way, "Live by the combo, die by the combo" has always been my motto. Any combo player knows you are trading consistency for raw power. Combo decks are notoriously easily disrupted, but skilled combo players can get around that disruption. Combo decks are not suited for pick up and play like aggro. You need to know the deck very well to abuse the combo. That's why I say this combo is far from dead.
It won't be a bigger problem than stifle or FoW, as FoW counters spells, not just spells in storm decks, and stifle still nukes fetches, deeds, wastes, ect. This card will not be as much of a problem for storm because it will never be maindecked, ever. Force and stifle are playable cards in their own right that happen to be very to moderately effective against combo. Mindbreak is a horribly narrow sideboard card that IMO is worse than chalice at 0/1 against combo, as chant and duress both stop it's usefulness, opposed to chalice, which comes down as early as turn 1/2, and usually needs to be bounced/grudged/griped/spree-d to generate enough mana/storm for a lethal tendrils.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane of the Living
Chill. The hell. Out. Obviously, you hate Storm Combo decks with some crazy passion. However, just as obviously, you don't really understand how they work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane of the Living
Mindbreak Trap will be another wrinkle for the Storm Combo player to deal with, but think about it: They Chant you before they try to go off. Or they Duress you, etc. At the point they Chant/Duress you, there haven't been three spells played by them this turn, unless they don't know what they're doing. So your Mindbreak Trap either gets discarded, or it just sits there in your hand looking dumb. Then they get up their storm count and go for the kill.
If you want to point to a deck that gets "killed" by this card, it would be Solidarity. Which is pretty much already dead-er than dead.
I don't play Storm Combo decks myself, but I know enough about the game and how it works to deduce this much. Think a little bit before you go declaring your least favorite archetype "dead," just because they're printing one card that's semi-effective against the strategy. Mindbreak Trap is decent. But it's not going to change the meta all that much. The decks that will use it will probably be mostly aggro strategies, and really mostly stuff like Goblins that has an atrocious combo match-up.
i think that card is good against vintage tendrils....but now like someone said above, you will just kp chants in against aggro if it gets popular
But it can only exile spells on the stack under it. While Solidarity is dead, Mindtrap really isn't any more deadly than trickbind/stifle/chant/etc. Solidarity can still respond to the Mindtrap.Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght
Ok, it's not the end of the world. But you have to admit it's going to be a pain to play around.
Say a goblin player sides in a bunch of cards game 2. How many Chants/Silences do you keep in? Then he starts and opens with Land Aether Vial. He can apply some pressure quickly, have some discard (Duress, Thoughtseize or Cabal Therapy) AND have a zero mana counter.
Can you really afford trying to go off without Chant? How easy is it to get white mana for it? What if they discard your Chant? Are you going to play Duress and Chants maindeck? Won't that water down the deck too much?
Notice how none of these questions are doom-like, but they raise important points you should ask yourself.
As a 3-of in my goblin sideboard it looks ok, I'm fine having it in to at least give me a chance on this horrible matchup.
I don't think that this is the end of ANT (some people are talking like it is) but it is a new card that players will have to take into consideration now. It is scary when it's backed by a clock instead of counters (or Merfolk being both).
What do you guys think of REB in the SB to deal with it? Or does it suck to put it in and have it when your opponent doesn't play it and just giggles? Is Duress enough?
Maybe Zendikar will give combo some love. Maybe.
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Originally Posted by Bane of the Living
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Originally Posted by Bane of the Living
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Originally Posted by Bane of the Living
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Originally Posted by Bane of the Living