Ugh, misplayed that deed big time, should have equipped the bird and swung.
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Ugh, misplayed that deed big time, should have equipped the bird and swung.
Rock player blew it with that mistimed Pernicious Deed. Take the 5 from the Commander, then pop Deed at your leisure. Major slops.
He threw the game away. It wasn't even a matter of us knowing what was in Bertoncini's hand or anything, that was just such a blatant misplay. Frustrating, because I was hoping to see Rock get first for once.
Of course, I don't play perfectly after multiple hours of playing. Dude may have been tired and just didn't realize. Or didn't care (I think its pretty common for the top 4 / finalists to just split the prize, so he may not have really cared much about the outcome at this point.)
In the finals game 3, blow up Pernicious when he had bob and jitte on the board and his only white and black source was birds and mox, being unable to cast swords or the quasali in his hand =(Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
I really wanted to see The Rock take the win finally in a open series.
Did anyone see what the Confidant flip was the turn he played Deed? Was it Qasali Pridemage?
EDIT:
How do you see the videos again? They post reruns right?
It was a Pridemage.
I think you've right, he should have equipped and swung with the Bird, or the Confidant so he could mow down some guys.
Drawing the Wastelands didn't help him either, and that's why you don't play 4 Wastelands, kids.
All in all, he should have won, Alex was in a crap position. At this point, I consider he took first in spirit. Good job Yoni! :)
Also, I'm pretty sure there were 2 Junks in the Top 16. As well, they claim Junk and Merfolk are two of the most popular decks in Legacy. I disagree, Rock is only 1% of a tournament, usually.
-Matt
Yeah, should have played Qasali, equipped Confidant and attacked as a 3/2 with possible +2/2 from Jitte counter. Would have been in great shape. Next turn he can play and activate Deed or whatever(not that that's even close to the optimal play).
EDIT:
He blocks with lord, pump for +2/2 and then build up more counters next turn+STP with Mox.
He blocks with Coralhelm, give +2/2 both die and kill Lord with a counter on it.
He doesn't block, either kill Lord or wait for next turn to kill coralhelm.
Great position. Deed was terrible there.
EDIT:
As far as the Wasteland comment. I think that's wrong. His mana was fine at that point, the only thing he wasn't able to play was Hymn. He would have won that game if he didn't make that huge misplay.
EDIT:
I guess I didn't quite pay attention to your post when I read it, Alex. He had Mox+Forest+Birds for colored.* Good enough for the deck in my experience.Quote:
In the finals game 3, blow up Pernicious when he had bob and jitte on the board and his only white and black source was birds and mox, being unable to cast swords or the quasali in his hand =(
*I guess that means he had Hymn mana too...
EDIT:
Attacking with Birds is wrong here. He'd prefer(if I was him) the colored mana, and if you need to, it's better to use Birds as a blocker for Coralhelm to throw it away. Confidant's an all-around better attack here.Quote:
Ugh, misplayed that deed big time, should have equipped the bird and swung.
Guess I should have read the last page more carefully.
For the SCG series, Rock is actually the third most played deck in the past 4 series behind Merfolk and Goblins:Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
http://static.starcitygames.com/www/...cyMetagame.jpg
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...Last_Four.html
Rock imo is the best non-blue deck in the format and what I would play if I didn't love blue so much. The combination of the deck top 8ing in Columbus and your resurrection of The Rock thread with the new updated primer has helped increase it's popularity ten fold.
It's good until you blow up Pernicious and left with one forest and wastelands, thus my =( face. Playing 12 straight rounds of magic probably contributed to his problem, he played really great up to that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Rach
Mistakes happen, but in spirit, he won. 'Nuff said. Rock isn't the easiest deck to pilot, and after a long day with minimal food, relaxation, and drink, you can be off your game.
I was playing Deadguy in a GPT and in the Top 4 I Thoughtseized his hand when he had Painter Servant naming Blue on board. He had Force and REB, and I couldn't decide which to choose. Why? I was thinking force was a non-pitch free counterspell, and I was super tired. In about 30 seconds I realized what I was doing and chose REB. Hey, it happens.
Also, thoughts on this list? Nothing fancy. I've upped the land count to 24 to help support the Moxen without getting totally fucked by colour screw and to make more hands keepable and not needing 3 lands to get there. Thoughts?
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
2/1 Swamp
0/1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
3 WAsteland
3 Bayou
4 Scrubland
3 Top
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn
4 Swords
3 Mox Diamond/ 1 Iok 2 Path or something
3 Vindicate
2 Jitte
1 Deed
1 EE/Deed
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
---------
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Deed
1 Bog
2 Extirpate/Crypt
4 Engineered Plague
+4 slots
Thoughts? It's not the same GSZ build, but with that you lose some of destructive power. Obviously, you can just cut Win-dicates if you feel the need and change the manabase for GSZ if required.
-Matt
FWIW, there was a lot of Junk at the tournament yesterday. I would say the big 4 decks were Merfolk, Junk, Bant with or without NO, and... High Tide???? Believe it. I saw at least 15 people playing it, so about 10% of the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
And I wouldn't say it was an issue with wastelands. I know I wouldn't play without 4, I just think his mana base was a little odd. Fewer basics, fewer black fetches, MD Bojuka Bog and Sejiri Steppe, Dryad Arbor w/o NO, and 2 Canopies. I played the following lands yesterday:
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
4 Wasteland
3 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
With 3 Moxen.
Hey guys! I've been following the discussion over for a while and decided to kick in my 2 cents. I've been playing Junk for a few months now and I've been consistently making top 8 or just missing at the events I've played in. Here's a summary of my thoughts on the deck and my current list with a few changes noted that I'll be testing later this week:
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Horizon Canopy - will be trying Volrath's Stronghold over it
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sejiri Steppe
I use all the fetchlands that can get a swamp because that's typically my t1 play if the opponent has Wastelands, or if I don't know what they're playing. I don't mind grabbing all basics and going that route, especially if I have a mox diamond as it blanks opposing Wastelands and is pretty doesn't really set me back any. I heard some discussion about 3 Wastes, but I think there's too many situations where wastes can just keep an opponent locked out of the game and are awesome, or they get pitched to a mox. I only play 2 of each dual instead of 2/3 because I never see myself wanting a 3rd, so the extra slot is an extra utility land. I like main deck Bojuka Bog because it's great in so many matchups: any deck with knights, painter/stone w/ welder, it's really the only card I have against dredge, and sometimes it's randomly good in other places. I think mdc1010 had a good point with cutting Horizon Canopy, looking at most of the games I've had it I've just used it to cycle, whereas Stronghold let's me pick a card to draw and that card is going to be good, but I haven't tested it yet (it also plays well with Jittes in the main, as he also pointed out). Karakas is standard and Maze is great against aggro plans and decks like the rock with only a few big beaters, being able to maze your own knight is awesome sometimes too if they aren't pressuring you. I've lost a lot of games were Sejiri Steppe would've won it, and we just saw Yoni Skolnik win with it last night, though, steppe does make the deck 61 cards because the main is pretty tight.
3 Mox Diamond
3 Sensei's Top
2 Umezawa's Jitte - I'm trying them over Inquisition of Kozileks I've had main.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Pernicious Deed
I've heard a lot of discussion on Mox Diamonds or not. I really like them. On the draw, it helps me get a Thoughtseize through Daze or Cursecatcher, on the play I get a t1 threat that demands an answer like Jitte, Confidant, or Hymn. It helps get around wastes and fixes the mana, it's really an all star. I had been playing 2 Inquisitons main and they were great, 90% of the time they're Thoughseize without the life loss and I may be doing 3 Seize 1 Kozilek like Gerard Fabiano did in Team Italia. Vindicate was never super great so I bumped it down to 3, it's really the only answer to a Moat, Tezzeret, or a Thopter Foundry among other things so I don't think I can justify 2. I would not leave home without some number of deeds main deck. Goblins, Merfolk, and Affinity which are among the most popular decks, have a rough time against it and if you play it correctly and don't blow up all your stuff unnecessarily (like last night's finals), it's usually enough to get the game. From what I've played against affinity, if you have deed you can't lose, but if you don't get it you usually do lose.
Sideboard that I had been playing:
4 Engineered Plague
4 Duress
3 Krosan Grip
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Doom Blade
1 Go for the Throat
Merfolk and Goblins are pretty popular in my city and since Plague is close to an auto-win in those games, I play 4, though, 3 is reasonable if it's not as popular, the spot removal is there for those matchups too as well as the mirror. ANT and other combo decks can be tough, so I've been playing the set of Duress to try to even it up. I haven't had to board in the Grips in quite a while so I'm cutting them back. Natural Order is gaining popularity in my area so I need to fit in some Perish. Again, I look at mdc1010's list. I really like the sideboard he posted, Leyline of Sanctity seems awesome and now with Jittes main to help Goblins and Merfolk, I don't mind cutting back my removal for more combo hate which I need to replace Inquisitions. I'll be trying his sideboard in the next week. For those of you who don't want to scroll around to find it:
3 Duress
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Engineered Plague
3 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Ruin
1 Perish
1 Pernicious Deed
So there you go, a miniature War and Peace on my Rock experience. Opinions welcomed.
Honestly Plague is horrible vs merfolk. Every merfolk player I know always laugh when they face that card. Now it is really good vs goblin though.
Merfolk tends to be too redundant and plays too many Lord-creatures for Plague to be effective. I want EE, Deed, and more spot removal in this matchup.
@ JMarchi
After my GPT I would consider going to 3 swords and brining the vindicates back up to 4. Also I ran a 1/1 split of perish and nataures ruin only because I couldn't find a 2nd perish.
I also want to fit in a serji steppe, just not sure how yet. I may move karakas to the side as emerkual is more of a sideboard plan in most decks now.
Plague against Folk won me infinite games at the GPT we had when I played Deadguy (mind you, Deadguy isn't Rock, but my point still stands). If you can get rid of Coralhelm and Vial, Plague is a beast, especially when you have equipment.
I dropped one game against Merfolk that entire tournament with Plagues coming out of the board.
-Matt
I'll agree that Merfolk do have a lot of lord effects, but there's also plenty of spot removal spells to handle them. If you get 1 plague, there team dwindles significantly and the can't be as aggressive because if their lords die so does their team, and a second plague is game over. It may not be as much of an all-star as it is in the Goblins matchups, but I'll never complain about having it. I want to try EE against Merfolk, but I'm a bit reluctant since it seems to me like a worse Deed. I'm probably setting it to 2 most of the time, and I do have a lot of my own cards at 2 mana, plus Deed gets Vials.
@mdc1010
I think that moving Karakas out may be correct, most of the time I use it is to just make Kira vulnerable.
@ E. Plague. Albeit board sweepers like EE/Deed are far more useful than E. Plague, that having been said E. Plague is in no way a dead card against Merfolk. Yeah, they run 16 Lords. But negating even 1 lord effect can be enough to save you anywhere from 1-5 damage based on the game state. I currently don't run E. Plague in my list considering my meta has a whole 1 Gob/Merfolk/Kithkin (which, amazingly, is actually quite amazing at stalling the shit out of games. O.o').
I'm just curious to know if anyone else besides me has opted for the Stoneforge toolbox and if so how it's been performing for them in tournaments. I transitioned from Deadguy several months ago to Rock and opted to keep the toolbox as I liked the obvious utility. The toolbox is currently eating the Moxes/3 flex spots however I'm not quite sure whether or not I like the Mox removal. Before I aquired my KotR and was using Nighthawk as a substitute mana fixing was less troublesome but once I obtained the KotR I found the necessity to have access to any color a necessity. I'm not as concerned with explosiveness since I really have no aggro in my meta I need to race. Nearly everything is midrange decks.
ForlornEgoist
I found the toolbox was fine, I was never disappointed, but I literally have no room for it.
-Matt
@ SFM Toolbox:
FWIW, I've converted my Bant deck to a SFM set since the deck doesn't run enough threats to stand on their own. If I'm not mistaken, Junk/Rock also has similar problems? Only difference here is Bant is reactive disruption, whereas Junk is proactive; but both are tap-out decks with KotR. It should be emphasized that this package is stone garbage against combo. However, vs TES & Dredge I leave in 1-2 SFM and 1 Jitte to stop the token plan.
I've had success with Mother of Runes in the Flex slots instead of Inquistion/Mox and Jitte instead of Elspeth. This lowers my curve somewhat so I don't miss the mox diamonds. Mom protects the all important bob/kotrs while being an anti Aggro gem. Carrying a Jitte/protecting Jitte carriers is nothing to laugh at either. Credit to Matt Elias and his list that T8ed SCG (he played moms too). As for the SFM package, I don't see why not, but there's not much to cut though. I prefer Vindicates over SFM.