[Primer/Deck] Burn

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Originally Posted by Speedbump

That might be the other part of the equation, as I'm not on the Swiftspear plan. I'm on the Grim Lavamancer + 4 Searing Blaze plan, which is good against Delver and most variants of Miracles, at the expense of the Show and Tell-based match-ups.

I think 4 SDT is probably 1-2 too many, even in the Swiftspear build. While having multiple sources of Prowess triggers is always nice, I feel that this specific upside that multiple SDTs gives Burn doesn't out-weigh the fact that multiples without Swiftspear are pretty mediocre.

This might just be conjecture though, as I'm much less comfortable playing the Swiftspear builds compared to the Lavamancer builds.

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I went down to 1 Lavamancer due to Top. It's nice to still have one just to keep the option open of hitting it, but at the same time Top uses such a large chunk of your available mana in a game that you can't really afford to run both of them together. This is my current list

Land 18
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
1 Taiga
1 Barbarian Ring
7 Mountain

Creatures 13
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

Spells 23
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Price of Progress
3 Atarka's Command
2 Searing Blaze
2 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast

Artifact 4
4 Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantment 2
2 Sulfuric Vortex

Sideboard 15
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Volcanic Fallout
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Searing Blaze

What's the Elves matchup like for this deck? Favoured, unfavoured or about even?

Seems there are mixed opinions on Swiftspear in this thread. If I know I'm running into Elves often, is it better to have Swiftspear or not?

What are strong sideboard options for fighting Elves? Is Pyroclasm a bad idea?

I'd say it's an even matchup, mostly dependant on who wins the die roll. When they are on the play is very difficult to win before they kill you with craterhoof behemoth.
Swiftspear is not good against elves, they have thousands of blockers that can also survive the fight if they bounce them with wirewood symbiote.
Your best cards against elves are Grim lavamancer, Eidolon, Searing Blaze, Searing Blood. Any sweeper is fantastic, i prefer volcanic fallout to pyroclasm because damages also players and is good against delver decks too because it's uncounterable.
Be sure to practice a bit against them because you absolutely need to understand when you must aim your burn spells to the face and when you have to kill their creatures.... any mistake can result in a loss because they can kill you out of nowhere.

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Originally Posted by Kl'rt

What's the Elves matchup like for this deck? Favoured, unfavoured or about even?

Seems there are mixed opinions on Swiftspear in this thread. If I know I'm running into Elves often, is it better to have Swiftspear or not?

What are strong sideboard options for fighting Elves? Is Pyroclasm a bad idea?

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Elves isn't too popular locally, but I do run into it from time to time. I use Volcanic Fallouts against them, they're a good include in fair metas anyways (can also do double duty against Miracles). Though that has the disadvantage of needing to get to turn 3 to cast it. Ensnaring Bridge can slow them down a turn, but they can destroy a Bridge if given enough time.

Guide and Swiftspear are at their weakest here, you're rarely if ever going to connect with a creature. Instead you want to either use Blaze effects on them or board wipes, while going directly at their face. My list is a couple posts up, my strategy is roughly (changes game to game) +1 Lavamancer, +1 Blaze, +3 Fallout, +3 Firecraft, -4 Guide, -4 Swiftspear. I treat Atarka's Commands a little different here too. If I have a land heavy hand I'll fire them for 3+acceleration or for 3+no life if DRS is eating guys.

One thing you can do when they bounce their guys in the face of a Fallout, is to cast the Fallout on the end of their turn, then untap and drop an Eidolon. It will get in a bunch of free damage as they redeploy. Given they can usually kill an Eidolon anyways off a GSZ, you sometimes want to hold it for this sort of moment.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/legacy-burn-12-09-12-1/

Want to stay close to creature less, but most mass creature decks are a weak point of the deck.

I have had mana issues and inconsistencies.

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Originally Posted by Sidneyious

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/legacy-burn-12-09-12-1/

Want to stay close to creature less, but most mass creature decks are a weak point of the deck.

I have had mana issues and inconsistencies.

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Why aren't you running Eidolon of the Great Revel? Deck seems pretty weak without it, especially with Flame Rift maindeck.

EDIT: 4 Grim Lavamancer is probably 1-2 too many, as they don't work well in multiples.

anyone think skin invasion is good enough for burn? a 3/4 for 1 mana doesn't look too shabby.

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Originally Posted by Speedbump

Why aren't you running Eidolon of the Great Revel? Deck seems pretty weak without it, especially with Flame Rift maindeck.

EDIT: 4 Grim Lavamancer is probably 1-2 too many, as they don't work well in multiples.

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I don't like him, kills me before I kill them.
I could swap 2 glm for skullcrack, but it works for an old style burn deck.

I like cheap 4 damage spells.

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Originally Posted by Sidneyious

I don't like him, kills me before I kill them.

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Yet you run Flame Rift.

Every single placing Burn deck since 2014 has run Eidolon and it's correct.

I'm more for burn, not creatures.
Flame rift don't kill me as fast as he does.

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Originally Posted by Sidneyious

I'm more for burn, not creatures.
Flame rift don't kill me as fast as he does.

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Eidolon should never kill you faster than he kills your opponents. All your spells do more than 2 damage, Eidolon does 2 damage to you per spell, the math is in your favour. Your opponent is going to be casting their own spells, outside of the burn mirror eidolon will very rarely kill you unless your gameplan has gone seriously awry. It's by far the best card in the deck and is about as much a staple as lightning bolt at this point.

I'm not sure about that.
Very rarely did he do any better than glm in the mid game.

It's a fact and it's proven with results. You are free to disregard actual results and facts in order to live in your fantasy world.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Sidneyious

I'm not sure about that.
Very rarely did he do any better than glm in the mid game.

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Seriously: Eidolon is the best BS hater in Red. He hates the majority of the Blue tempo package from Delver decks, he absolutely wrecks Storm's plan (unless you've been utterly stupid), and he irritates the majority of decks out there. IMO, there's only one match he absolutely horrible against, and that's the Mono-Brown plan (Eldrazi and MUD).

What works on mtgo does not always work in my lgs.

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Originally Posted by Sidneyious

What works on mtgo does not always work in my lgs.

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The replies you've received in this thread are based on the assumption that you play in a competitive meta where the decks listed in the Decks to Beat section make up a notable portion of the decks you'll face, while the remainder are likely to be found in the Established Decks section of the forum. The replies from Speedbump, LOLWut, Depressedspring1, Jon, and Darkenslight are all accurate statements based on the assumption in my opening statement. This has been proven by hundreds (thousands?) of tournament results. While it is subject to change based on meta-shifts and newly printed cards, it is currently 100% accurate.

If your list is tuned to your meta and your meta is atypical due to budget or casual-minded players (or other reasons), you should mention what your meta looks like rather than just posting a link to your list. A post like yours (without context) is assumed to be asking for advice on how to improve it. This advice was provided. If you just posted it to share, thank you for sharing!

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Originally Posted by Sidneyious

What works on mtgo does not always work in my lgs.

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You made me curious... What does your meta look like? Eidolon is by far one of the best cards printed for a deck like Burn, so please explain :smile:

EDIT: ninja'd

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Originally Posted by Sidneyious

What works on mtgo does not always work in my lgs.

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While it is always important to consider your metagame, Eidolon of the Great Revel was one of the printings that helped Burn become a competitive strategy. I wouldn't go to a larger Legacy tournament without a playset.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

The replies you've received in this thread are based on the assumption [...] While it is subject to change based on meta-shifts and newly printed cards, it is currently 100% accurate.

If your list is tuned to your meta and your meta is atypical due to budget or casual-minded players (or other reasons), you should mention what your meta looks like rather than just posting a link to your list. A post like yours (without context) is assumed to be asking for advice on how to improve it. This advice was provided. If you just posted it to share, thank you for sharing!

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Great quality post, that is meant to bring everybody together, doesn't weaken actual facts and keeps the peace, cheers.

@Sidneyious
I recently posted my "new" updated List adjusted for a specific local meta, that holds up to conventional wisdom, but significantly cuts on creature hate (so I decided to forgo fetchlands for that list.) The reasoning of a Miracles and Storm heavy meta was provided.
Therefore I got the chance to recive actual useful feedback (thanks to Speedbump).

@all As an update to that I cut the last 2 Searing Effects from the Sideboard and am now free to have the full 4 Exquisite Firecraft and Sulfuric Vortex in the 75, up the number on Pyrostatic Pillars, or the choice to board a pair of Anarchy for the absolutely awful Enchantress matchup, if I see the need.


(Also a fun (and obvious, I guess) fact: When Sideboarding against Miracles, Miracles players like the Red Elemental Blast the most for their mirror, while for Burn the statement of it's mediocrity has been made multiple times, and I consider Sulfuric Vortex, Firecraft and Sensei's Top to be better.)

I see this list by Ali Aintrazi.

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2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
8 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
1 Barbarian Ring
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
//Sideboard
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Searing Blaze
2 Smash to Smithereens
4 Exquisite Firecraft

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I never play Burn and I want try, but I've a problem with the side...
How he side Vs the Deck to Beat?:confused: