I tested a single CoB and it sucked bad. I can only imagine how crappy four of them play out. Plus, the shuffle effects leaving the list isn't what I would want to see.
Pce,
--DC
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I tested a single CoB and it sucked bad. I can only imagine how crappy four of them play out. Plus, the shuffle effects leaving the list isn't what I would want to see.
Pce,
--DC
No shuffle effects are leaving the list, I'm dropping the "less necessary" duals.
I recenty picked up this deck and went for the hybrid version. This is my list so far. I do need alot of practicing about sb plans. Maybe someone could help me link to a post where it's explained very well.
// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [A] Island (1)
1 [B] Swamp (2)
2 [A] Underground Sea
1 [A] Tundra
1 [A] Scrubland
1 [B] Badlands
1 [B] Volcanic Island
// Spells
4 [MI] Mystical Tutor
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
1 [TE] Meditate
1 [WL] Doomsday
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [TE] Dark Ritual
4 [US] Duress
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
2 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [TO] Cabal Ritual
1 [US] Rain of Filth
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
1 [TSP] Wipe Away/repeal/chain of vapor (dont know what to chose)
1 [MR] Chrome Mox
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 [TO] Cabal Ritual
SB: 1 [VI] Helm of Awakening
SB: 1 [TSP] Grapeshot
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 [10E] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
SB: 4 [IA] Pyroblast
My meta is different every time I play. one time it was all rock/goblins then it shifted to nassif.dec meta and last time it was sligh/loam/aggro decks.
Okay, you're right: City of Brass sucks.
@ Waikiki
Why no grip in that list? It's easy to slip in with a trop and one of the best singleton protection cards that you could run.
If you don't want to splash, then wipe away is your best bet. It dodges CB and can't be fucked with. The double blue is a turn off whereas all grip requires one green, so it fits into a variety of none-dd scenarios.
Rain of filth is an interesting card to run. If I recall it's one black to sac a swamp for a black mana? Seems like a pretty interesting card to run for some situations. How is it working out for you?
@Mordel,
I chose not to run grip so I have more red colors to use pyroblast with.
Also RoF says sac a land so it's a little better. Also it helps me more to get threshold for cabal ritual. and can give alot of mana aswell.
I also saw a lot of people run extirpate. I simply added it aswel but I have no idea against what its used.
I think that list would be so much better if you drop the Ad Nauseam and run a straight Doomsday version with IGG. I've just given up on it as an additional engine - it's either you commit to Ad Nauseam or to Doomsday.
Seems to me that a hand with Uland petal led mtutor is pretty good for a T2 nauseam when facing non blue decks.
Right. Be it Ad Nauseam or Doomsday, Storm combo shouldn't consistently lose to non-blue.
I'm just saying that designing decks to capitalize on either Ad Nauseam or Doomsday is already tight for spaces as it is, and that hybridizing a combo deck to support those two (along with IGG) just dilutes it. In exchange for more storm engines, you give up valuable space to make Ad Nauseam or Doomsday most effective once they resolve.
That said, if you feel most comfortable having all three engines, go ahead. I went that route before, but that idea has fallen out of my preferences after I've realized how awesome Doomsday is.
What list would you suggest then? I'm really new to the doomsday archetype. Maybe in PM?
I agree with kicks. The hybrid versions are not working for me at all. It seems most of the time AdN is consistently killing on turn 3-4 and in a deck with no Chrome Mox and at something like 15ish life ... just not fast enough. It is nice to have though but really not necessary. I think either playing straight up ANT or DD is the way to go. Currently I am playing TES hybrids based on their speed but I still like Doomsday for its consistency and how well the deck usually mulligans.
@Waikiki: List varies so much man, there is no set 75 cards that you will ever play, your deck and SB will be constantly evolving with your meta, thats whats so great about DDFT, how adabtable the deck is. Describe your meta and we can tell you the best combo deck to play in that meta.
TES hybrids with what ? with doomsday ( seems not really probable) or with ANT ? could you show me a bit your list? I'm interested in it. Always wanted to put the explosiveness of TES along with the solidity and the filtering of Ant/DD in only one deck, but didn't have success at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
Look at the storm combo deck from GP chicago ;) it looks like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piceli89
The main problem of that list , imo, is that it lacks really good protection pieces. A singleton Orim's chant isn't enough for all the blue-based aggro control decks that are nowadays dominatning, which usually pack at least 12 counters ( 4 fows, 4 snares, 4 dazes), not to count the worst card for combo, counterbalance. Duress is not that good, since, despites being able to take CB, an opponent may both have several protection spells in hand, hide them with brainstorm in case of an early duress, or even have it on the top and grab it cashing in the Top (which seems to be the last tendency, and a trick discard can't circumvent). I think 4 Orim's Chant is the best way to go for fast combo decks relying massively on the synergies between tutors and LED to go off; the problem with that list is that i'd really don't know what to cut for more orim's chants. 6 protections should be an adequate number; but then, assuming we'd pack 4 chants, i don't know if the manabase would allow to cast it consistently ( with only 4 gemstone mines). then, we can pack more rainbow lands, but at that point we would be playing a strange version of TES with more lands than the average, and we'd reduce the efficiency of shuffling effects provided by fetchlands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waikiki
It's all a vitious circle, that it is.
Moreover, how to side with that list? I tried it, and never really understood what to cut from MD for, say, SB sprees or pyroblasts ( i ran them , it's rather foolish not to have them against tiers1).
(sorry for the OT)
Although this list is not related to DDFT I am posting this because Piceli asked and will follow it up with discussion about FT. I took a hybrid TES build to my local tournament and lost to Dragon Stompy after topdecking garbage for 8 TURNS IN A ROW, I had at least 17 outs .... for 8 turns .... that pissed me off (also I didn't have EtW in SB ... that would have won at least 1 game). Then I lost to Eva Variant with t1: rit, thoughtseize hymn, turn 2: hymn. I was very disappointed with how the deck performed in the face of heavy disruption. You would think it would be able to recover well will all the threats and bombs in the deck, but not really, stiff suffers from the typical inconsistencies of TES. Here is an updated list of what I would play today:
4x Brainstorm
4x Lotus Petal
4x Rite of Flame
4x Dark Ritual
4x LED
4x Duress
4x Burning Wish
3x Infernal Tutor
3x Mystical Tutor
3x Chrome Mox
2x Cabal Ritual
2x Ponder
2x Ad Nauseam
1x Krosan Grip
1x IGG
1x Tendrils
1x Thoughtseize
3x Gemstone Mine
4x City of Brass
3x Polluted Delta
1x Tropical Island
1x Badlands
1x Underground Sea
SB
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Tendrils
1x IGG
1x Grapeshot
1x Diminishing Returns
1x Shattering Spree
3x Xantid Swarm
2x Slaughter Pact
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Krosan Grip
But regarding the hybrid DDFT lists, I have played them a little and not had much success with the lists but I am going to give them another shot. I just like they way they play more than straight up DD. Here is my question, to any of the hybrid players, have you had problems with a 5c fetchable manabase with only 16 lands? This has been really annoying for me, 17 land fetchable manabase has worked fine but when I went down to 16 it has really been messing with me, I have no idea why. It makes me more confidant that cutting white will greatly add consistency to the manabase. cutting green is not an option, red is the next most likely but the blasts help so much I am not sure I would want to part with them, as well as Grudge.
I may or may not have mentioned this before, but the only time I ever cast Ad Nauseam in my hybrid lists is off Mystical Tutor -> LED in the upkeep of turn 2 or 2. This guarantees that I can use a land as a mana source and probably will let me also use a Brainstorm or Mystical that I draw to further optimize with extra LED man (side note: unless you're casting Ad Nauseam main phase, the correct color to float is never black. you usually want blue, but sometimes a case can be made for white if you have multiple chants and the ability to sink a white (or take the burn) if you don't draw the chant. The rest of the time I use the 2 Doomsday and 2-3 Infernal Tutor that I play to win the game. Rarely, I might cast Ad Nauseam on my main phase if I have a ton of mana, or end step off a lot of lands to draw a few cards/bait a counter, but this situations don't come along often.
I'm mostly a fan of having rit/led, 1-2 initial mana sources, and mystical/infernal and goldfishing things without force of will on turn 2.
@emidln, I want to do some more practice with the doomsday hybrid list I posted. But your site of doomsday piles seems down. Where can I find it now? I pméd you but got no responce.
To me this looks like a terrible list...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
I would never like to actually cast an AN with CoB, Thoughtseize and a second AN in my library.
Seems like you made TES even worse.
I'm continuing to have good results with my list (Post #1055, +1 Ponder - 1 Cabal Ritual).
Thoughtseize needs to be a Orim, but that aside the list isn't extremely different from TES lists if you're not considering the manabase.Quote:
Originally Posted by FredMaster
FYI, TES is usually playing with 2 Ad Nauseam and city of brass.
FYI, I never liked TES and its AN-flips much.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenOne
And regarding the manabase, I'd say that it straight worse than those of the recent TES lists.