Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
The IGG loop is simple Infernal Tutor + enough mana to cast it and 2x Lion's Eye Diamonds. Ideally this is a situation where Ad nauseam is good. With only access to 1x IGG MD and a little mana short you just fetch out AdN and win, but if you have 5 spells + IGG then it makes for 11 storm. Storm count 4, play IT (5), put it on the stack and blow up LEDs for 6 black, fetch out IGG and cast it (6), bring back LED, LED, IT, play both LEDs (8), cast IT (9), place it on the stack and blow up LEDs for 6 black, fetch out IT and cast it (10) then fetch out Tendrils (11). Just practice with the deck, this varies, sometimes you have enough mana to IT -> BW -> IGG and can get sick storm by just fetching out Burning Wishes and getting IGG back. The IGG loop can also be achieved LED, Dark Ritual, IT and a few mana floating but most of the time you are have 5-4 man floating and can't get the extra IT/BW in so it goes for 1 less storm.
Diminishing Returns is great when you are in serious troubles from hand destruction, maybe your acceleration is lacking, it is also wise to use this against burn since AdN can get you into multiple Bolt + Fireblast range.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Thanks GreenOne and Pulp_Fiction, I'm sure there has been many times where I did not see my way to a win condition. Currently I'm relying too much on Ad N. so I'd like to starting exploring all the offerings of the deck.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raindown
Thanks GreenOne and Pulp_Fiction, I'm sure there has been many times where I did not see my way to a win condition. Currently I'm relying too much on Ad N. so I'd like to starting exploring all the offerings of the deck.
This may sound odd as it changes the versatility of the deck, but maybe try going back to an earlier version of TES pre-shards. Goldfishing that will get you accustomed to the igg loops, burning wishes, and the diminishing returns kills. Then adding a pair or two of Ad N will give you the option of simply draw x cards and storm on their face.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pulp_Fiction
The IGG loop is simple Infernal Tutor + enough mana to cast it and 2x Lion's Eye Diamonds. Ideally this is a situation where Ad nauseam is good. With only access to 1x IGG MD and a little mana short you just fetch out AdN and win, but if you have 5 spells + IGG then it makes for 11 storm. Storm count 4, play IT (5), put it on the stack and blow up LEDs for 6 black, fetch out IGG and cast it (6), bring back LED, LED, IT, play both LEDs (8), cast IT (9), place it on the stack and blow up LEDs for 6 black, fetch out IT and cast it (10) then fetch out Tendrils (11). Just practice with the deck, this varies, sometimes you have enough mana to IT -> BW -> IGG and can get sick storm by just fetching out Burning Wishes and getting IGG back. The IGG loop can also be achieved LED, Dark Ritual, IT and a few mana floating but most of the time you are have 5-4 man floating and can't get the extra IT/BW in so it goes for 1 less storm.
Diminishing Returns is great when you are in serious troubles from hand destruction, maybe your acceleration is lacking, it is also wise to use this against burn since AdN can get you into multiple Bolt + Fireblast range.
I like the IGG loop much better than I do D. Returns against burn because I'd rather give them their responses and 3 cards than their responses plus an additional 7. It also does depend on what's already in their graveyard, but not much.
I run into burn around here from time to time and is the main reason I keep an additional IGG and IT in my sideboard when in my FDDT list.
Also, when I played TES not that long ago I would keep an IT in my sideboard to wish into. It made it easier to combo off will all black mana, requiring only one red to combo off with all black rits.
Pce,
--DC
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark_Cynic87
I like the IGG loop much better than I do D. Returns against burn because I'd rather give them their responses and 3 cards than their responses plus an additional 7. It also does depend on what's already in their graveyard, but not much.
I run into burn around here from time to time and is the main reason I keep an additional IGG and IT in my sideboard when in my FDDT list.
Also, when I played TES not that long ago I would keep an IT in my sideboard to wish into. It made it easier to combo off will all black mana, requiring only one red to combo off with all black rits.
Pce,
--DC
Yeah...I love giving my opponent bolt bolt Fireblast back. I generally try to not use a storm engine. Just use multiple cantrips or Chain of Vapor to make storm.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
I started playing a 1x Echoing Truth in th main over Chain of Vapor. I found that I like it much better.
Main reason is because Chalice is everywhere right now and nobody around here is dumb enough to lay it at 0 instead of 1.
Chain of Vapor does not bounce Chalice at one :(
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yawg07
I started playing a 1x Echoing Truth in th main over Chain of Vapor. I found that I like it much better.
Main reason is because Chalice is everywhere right now and nobody around here is dumb enough to lay it at 0 instead of 1.
Chain of Vapor does not bounce Chalice at one :(
With AdN its easier to win through Chalice at 1 than Chalice at 0... if anything you should be going yay! Christmas.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yawg07
I started playing a 1x Echoing Truth in th main over Chain of Vapor. I found that I like it much better.
Main reason is because Chalice is everywhere right now and nobody around here is dumb enough to lay it at 0 instead of 1.
Chain of Vapor does not bounce Chalice at one :(
Chain of Vapor is big for ramping up your own storm in a pinch though. There are numerous occasions where you might play out some 0cc artifacts then cast Chain of Vapor, copy it a number of times sacrificing all your lands, then replay them all to bump your storm by a good 5-6. That's a lot stronger than Echoing Truth game one right there, plus Truth's argument is a bit weaker given Chalice isn't a very popular maindeck card.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryant Cook
Yeah...I love giving my opponent bolt bolt Fireblast back. I generally try to not use a storm engine. Just use multiple cantrips or Chain of Vapor to make storm.
I never had problem with burn. Even if you don't storm for the win, dealing only 10-14 dmg, it's like a 3+ timewalks for you. You can often combo when they have a single land in play. They're also playing Sorcery burn, so sometimes they're also tapped out. Is the burn matchup that crucial? I don't get it, because we're the faster combo deck of the two, aren't we?
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Hey folks,
I test Bryants last version of TES at the moment. I started playing Legacy with Cret-Belcher some months ago, then switched to Dredge, and came back to Belcher again. Now, I am a bit bored of both of them. And TES seems to be a good option.
I still have problems with playing around FOW or stifle. [My meta is full of Forces.] There are just 2 Brainstorm and 2 Duress main. (And Orims Chant of course, but one play or the other I have problems to cast Chant and go off...) Would love to hear some hints of you, Johnnys.
Regards,
Shizzow
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
I thought TES ran 4 Brainstorm, 3 Ponder, plus the new addition of 2 Mystical Tutor. That's a lot of dig to find your 2 Duress + 4 Orim's Chant.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Pardon, I meant 4 Brainstorm, 3 Ponder and 2 Mystical Tutors
So yeah, what you just posted.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Stifle, assuming they're holding onto it for your lethal Tendrils, shouldn't be a problem if you Ad Nauseam; you will typically flip one/multiple Chant/Duress during your 15-20 card binge. Once you stop Ad Nauseam, you basically can vomit your hand (I'm assuming lots of mana), play Chant/Duress, or tutor & draw for a protection spell.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J.V.
With AdN its easier to win through Chalice at 1 than Chalice at 0... if anything you should be going yay! Christmas.
Not when they go 2-tap land, Chalice for 1.
There are A LOT OF 1-CC in this deck. Chalice for 0 is easily played around, Chalice for one pretty much halts you because you can't do ...
Mystical
Brainstorm
Ponder
Dark Ritual
Rite of Flame
That's 17 cards.
Then add Duress and Chant and you're looking at another 6-7.
More than a 3rd of the deck. And most all of those are dig or mana.
X-Stompy and Stax have always been big around here.
Maybe it is a meta choice, I dunno. But I've started winning many more games I would have lost because of E.Truth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Di
Chain of Vapor is big for ramping up your own storm in a pinch though. There are numerous occasions where you might play out some 0cc artifacts then cast Chain of Vapor, copy it a number of times sacrificing all your lands, then replay them all to bump your storm by a good 5-6. That's a lot stronger than Echoing Truth game one right there, plus Truth's argument is a bit weaker given Chalice isn't a very popular maindeck card.
I understand that, I've played enough Vintage. But since when does this deck need to do that very much?
I've even Ad nauseam'd at 6 life before and didn't need to do that.
I get where you are coming from, but game one I'd rather be prepared for artifact decks.
Again, maybe a meta call. Fae/Dragon Stompy are very popular around here.
This deck has little to no trouble with normal counterspell decks. AT ALL.
But tell you what, artifacts can and will fuck it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arsenal
Stifle, assuming they're holding onto it for your lethal Tendrils, shouldn't be a problem if you Ad Nauseam; you will typically flip one/multiple Chant/Duress during your 15-20 card binge. Once you stop Ad Nauseam, you basically can vomit your hand (I'm assuming lots of mana), play Chant/Duress, or tutor & draw for a protection spell.
Yes. I love how Stifle is not actually that great vs this deck.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GreenOne
I never had problem with burn. Even if you don't storm for the win, dealing only 10-14 dmg, it's like a 3+ timewalks for you. You can often combo when they have a single land in play. They're also playing Sorcery burn, so sometimes they're also tapped out. Is the burn matchup that crucial? I don't get it, because we're the faster combo deck of the two, aren't we?
Neither have I, but he was recommending changing the deck for Burn. Using cantrips or chain is the best way to get a win when they've already burned you a bit. Building up to 8 cards, cantrip and win.
To people playing Echoing Truth. Sometimes you only get one mana off of Ad Nauseum and need 2 to win, this is where Chain of Vapor shines.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Hi folks, I've seen many people removed the maindeck Empty the Warrens, are you absolutely sure there is no more a free slot for it maindeck? I know its mana cost isn't very sinergic with Ad Nauseam, but what if your opponent i.e. casts Meddling Mage or Runed Halo naming Tendrils? If you have a ETW maindeck, you can just take it using Infernal Tutor or Burning Wish (or drawing him!), else you absolutely need burning wish. What I mean is that in some cases it is really useful to have a B plan maindeck, what do you think about it?
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corwin
Hi folks, I've seen many people removed the maindeck Empty the Warrens, are you absolutely sure there is no more a free slot for it maindeck? I know its mana cost isn't very sinergic with Ad Nauseam, but what if your opponent i.e. casts Meddling Mage or Runed Halo naming Tendrils? If you have a ETW maindeck, you can just take it using Infernal Tutor or Burning Wish (or drawing him!), else you absolutely need burning wish. What I mean is that in some cases it is really useful to have a B plan maindeck, what do you think about it?
You can still Infernal Tutor into Burning Wish into ETW as has been discussed several times before. This is a complete non-issue.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
I see, but you still need 2 more mana that sometimes you don't have, I know it has already been discussed, but Mystical Tutor too was :wink:
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
emidln
You can still Infernal Tutor into Burning Wish into ETW as has been discussed several times before. This is a complete non-issue.
Or simply do the manly thing and storm up 18 cards, play Burning Wish, and then Grapeshot his pants off.
Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corwin
Hi folks, I've seen many people removed the maindeck Empty the Warrens, are you absolutely sure there is no more a free slot for it maindeck? I know its mana cost isn't very sinergic with Ad Nauseam, but what if your opponent i.e. casts Meddling Mage or Runed Halo naming Tendrils? If you have a ETW maindeck, you can just take it using Infernal Tutor or Burning Wish (or drawing him!), else you absolutely need burning wish. What I mean is that in some cases it is really useful to have a B plan maindeck, what do you think about it?
As other said, there are several paths you can follow:
- Reach 6 storm, play Burning Wish -> Grapeshot, Grapeshot (2 storm copies on Mage, 6 on the opponent), play Tendrils on the opponent for 18. Total cost: 1 Card (B.Wish)+1R+1R. Or you can simply wish for grapeshot the turn before going of, splitting the cost in 2 turns.
- Infernal ->Burning Wish -> Empty the Warrens
- Burning Wish -> Grapeshot with 18-20 storm.
- Mystical/cantrips ->Chain of Vapor
- Pyroblast (for Meddling Mage) post side.
