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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dahcmai
Slivers/Angels/Dragons are a prime example. I can barely trade the stupid things, but they are lifeblood to stores due to the tabletop crowds that never show up to tournaments.
This is evident by the fact the RWB commander deck is the highest priced one among the group.
I always found legions to be a good set to sell to stores as you could get the more than you probably otherwise would by selling on ebay. The dragons in that set and scourge always do pretty well. Plus if I sell to coolstuffinc, I'll get 15% bonus, then I'll get by 15% off discount.
For instance I am building team america right now, and still need some things for the deck. Now this is not a typical example, but a friend gave me a 4 wide box full of cards on monday. After going through them I found a few good things like an intuition and ancient tomb. But they have no value as far as 2 decks I would play (maverick/TA).
In addition there were other stuff that coolstuff was buying for a decent amount I felt
here is the buy:
Erratic Portal 2 @ .60
Crystalline Sliver 2 @ 1.50
Ancient Tomb 1 @ 6.00
Eladamri, Lord of Leaves 1 @ 5.50
Intuition 1 @ 14.00
Jet Medallion 1 @ 3.50
Reanimate 3 @ .50 CCG
Reflecting Pool 1 @ 4.50 CCG
Ruby Medallion 2 @ 2.00
Shocker 1 @ 1.00 CCG
Undiscovered Paradise 1 @ 4.00
Mystical Tutor 1 @ 1.00 1 @ .80
that was 50.00 and with the bonus I got 57.50 in credit. I took these cards I didn't want and bought cards for TA.
I got 2 stifle, 1 tombstalker, 1 pernicious deed, 1 thrun, and 2 phyrexian revoker. I ended up paying my $1 for shipping only. Some might say I didn't get that good of a deal, but if someone will give me $1.15 in trade for shocker, I'll take it.
I'm also going to have to get 2 more underground seas, but I have been trying to watch for a decent price as I have 15 in ebay bucks to use on the purchase of one, to really get much better price on it. I don't mind spending money on cards, but I like spending less money on cards even more.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oldbsturgeon
This is evident by the fact the RWB commander deck is the highest priced one among the group.
I always found legions to be a good set to sell to stores as you could get the more than you probably otherwise would by selling on ebay. The dragons in that set and scourge always do pretty well. Plus if I sell to coolstuffinc, I'll get 15% bonus, then I'll get by 15% off discount.
For instance I am building team america right now, and still need some things for the deck. Now this is not a typical example, but a friend gave me a 4 wide box full of cards on monday. After going through them I found a few good things like an intuition and ancient tomb. But they have no value as far as 2 decks I would play (maverick/TA).
In addition there were other stuff that coolstuff was buying for a decent amount I felt
here is the buy:
Erratic Portal 2 @ .60
Crystalline Sliver 2 @ 1.50
Ancient Tomb 1 @ 6.00
Eladamri, Lord of Leaves 1 @ 5.50
Intuition 1 @ 14.00
Jet Medallion 1 @ 3.50
Reanimate 3 @ .50 CCG
Reflecting Pool 1 @ 4.50 CCG
Ruby Medallion 2 @ 2.00
Shocker 1 @ 1.00 CCG
Undiscovered Paradise 1 @ 4.00
Mystical Tutor 1 @ 1.00 1 @ .80
that was 50.00 and with the bonus I got 57.50 in credit. I took these cards I didn't want and bought cards for TA.
I got 2 stifle, 1 tombstalker, 1 pernicious deed, 1 thrun, and 2 phyrexian revoker. I ended up paying my $1 for shipping only. Some might say I didn't get that good of a deal, but if someone will give me $1.15 in trade for shocker, I'll take it.
I'm also going to have to get 2 more underground seas, but I have been trying to watch for a decent price as I have 15 in ebay bucks to use on the purchase of one, to really get much better price on it. I don't mind spending money on cards, but I like spending less money on cards even more.
Well, yeah, it's fine to give $1.15 on shocker if they are completely undervaluing all the rest. Reanimates at fifty cents? really?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Kind of made it up ditching an Eldamari. I'm always happy to get $5 or more out of those. So hard to get rid of even to a lot of elf players. But yeah, he kind of ripped ya a little on reanimate, but that's the usual store trade in price it seems anyway. Most rares get 50 cents or so and reanimate is lumped into those. I think I would have hung onto Intuition though. It's on my list for cards to go up in price hard and be entirely too hard to get. That's a reserve list card that is always on the verge of being the next big thing. Strong tutors always are.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Is that coolstuffinc? They're buying reanimates at $3 now. You're out 7.50! Shucks
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
oh well, I got the cards I wanted. That's really all that matters in the end.
Keep in mind all these cards were literally free to me, someone I know said," here take a box of cards I don't want or I will throw them away". I had nothing invested in them.
As for keeping something like intuition, I really just have no reason to keep it, besides selling it later. As it is I really don't play and haven't played since GP Columbus almost a year ago, so getting rid of things for what I want have makes more sense. Well I guess actually it makes MORE sense to not have anything but well you know...
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dontbiteitholmes
Wow, this is retarded.
And people play this much for RV miscut basics? I mena, 60$, really?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dontbiteitholmes
The worst part is that I'm not bidding because I have a much better one that I BIN'd like 6 years ago for $39.99.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tha Gunslinga
The worst part is that I'm not bidding because I have a much better one that I BIN'd like 6 years ago for $39.99.
I think we have done this before, but aren't you the guy with Japanese duals?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
That's Soly. I'm Ben. Soly has Japanese everything.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I did for a while when Iona Oath was good, but right now I'm playing BUG Fish.
edit: There we go:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/P7020004.jpg
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I really dig it and would have played it (Oath) if our meta didn't allow proxies. CotVs and Null Rods don't do well against unpowered decks. So back then my list was closer to GWS. But in a powered meta yours was way better.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Gotta love the ol "not beta".
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
My god, it's over $800 now. lol That's fairly scary. You started a trend there slinga. I have a couple of miscuts, but it's only a set of Hymns. I was never really into them so that's the only ones I ever picked up. It's just shocking to me now to see people bid on them that heavily.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dahcmai
My god, it's over $800 now. lol That's fairly scary. You started a trend there slinga. I have a couple of miscuts, but it's only a set of Hymns. I was never really into them so that's the only ones I ever picked up. It's just shocking to me now to see people bid on them that heavily.
Certain sets miscuts are not valued highly at all.
Fallen Empires and Homelands all had bottom dollar quality control and miscuts of both sets are pretty common.
The only complete miscut (where the next card on the sheet is showing) I have is Song of the Damned from Ice Age.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
isn't that the suspicious guy that someone sold a lot of uncut revised sheets to?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
Yes, it is.
-Matt
OMG. Crimesolvers! Someone should track him down, and figure out how he cut those cards.
Not me, of course.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
Yes, it is.
-Matt
Those don't look like they were cut from a sheet though. So either they're real, or this guy is really professional.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Let's put it this way: the seller is in the exact same city that the uncut sheet was sold to. It might not be the same, true, but the coincidence would like to say hello.
This is from what I've heard, btw. I can't be 100% sure all of this is entirely accurate.
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alphacat
Those don't look like they were cut from a sheet though. So either they're real, or this guy is really professional.
Cutting paper is something any print shop worth the price of rent on their building can do.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Heck, with the right tools, anyone can cut paper to look perfect.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alphacat
Those don't look like they were cut from a sheet though. So either they're real, or this guy is really professional.
Getting rid of the curl is actually easier than most people think.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
The REB and vertical miscut mountain that he sold recently look contiguous.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
So, how exactly would you ever know if a miscut is real vs from an uncut sheet?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alphacat
So, how exactly would you ever know if a miscut is real vs from an uncut sheet?
Practically speaking, is there any difference?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Even if he is cutting them himself, is there anything wrong with that? They are real cards, made by WotC. As long as the dimensions are right and the corners don't distinguish them from other cards, I say more power to him.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
majikal
Even if he is cutting them himself, is there anything wrong with that? They are real cards, made by WotC. As long as the dimensions are right and the corners don't distinguish them from other cards, I say more power to him.
Well, the point in collecting miscuts is that they are rare industrial mistakes. A stamps collector, for example, might be interested in those (normally very rare) stamps with slightly different ink tones or industrial mistakes regarding misperforated/miscutted stamp sheets, or with wrong face values. I am sure that no stamps collector would be ok in buying common stamps manually modified to look like ''mistakes'', and any grading society could spot those easily.
I think that any grading society could possibly spot the fake Mtg dual miscut by comparison against a true dual miscut. Industrial cutting machines leave ''trace'' of their cutting system, and I think that nobody has access to the same cutting machines used by Carta Mundi ( I may be wrong). Obviously this is (*might be*) possible only through very close inspection.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kiblast
Well, the point in collecting miscuts is that they are rare industrial mistakes. A stamps collector, for example, might be interested in those (normally very rare) stamps with slightly different ink tones or industrial mistakes regarding misperforated/miscutted stamp sheets, or with wrong face values. I am sure that no stamps collector would be ok in buying common stamps manually modified to look like ''mistakes'', and any grading society could spot those easily.
I think that any grading society could possibly spot the fake Mtg dual miscut by comparison against a true dual miscut. Industrial cutting machines leave ''trace'' of their cutting system, and I think that nobody has access to the same cutting machines used by Carta Mundi ( I may be wrong). Obviously this is (*might be*) possible only through very close inspection.
For all practical purposes there is no difference. If the only person who can tell the difference between a miscut and a cut sheet is a professional grader with a 100x magnification then there is no difference.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I have two things;
In regard to rare collectible (defect) items: generally there is a sampling of items that can be compared to one another (i.e. there are 15 known orange hued Lincoln stamps out of an unknown total circulated number). One offs are typically unheard of though I suppose things like crimps might fall into a subcategory (all are unique to some degree but there are an undetermined number of in existence). So even if only one sheet was sideways during cutting, there would still be a set of miscuts which could be compared to one another. I don't know what I'm really getting at here but even the rarest of collectibles (Honus Wagner baseball card) has several known copies.
As for determining if a miscut is a genuine factory defect, much like CSI matches the grooves in a bullet to the barrel of a gun, you could very easily distinguish an exacto cut from a die cut. Stamping die jigs look like big flat boards with a layer of rubber on them holding a ribbon blade that is in the shape of the die. Cards I believe are done differently. The way I've seen it done is the cards are cut down to the general dimensions and then pressed through a shaped cutter which shaves off the corners. You just load the pre-cut cards into a channel and out the other side comes the finished product. I'm sure they leave behind marks that could be compared to the suspect forgery.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dontbiteitholmes
For all practical purposes there is no difference. If the only person who can tell the difference between a miscut and a cut sheet is a professional grader with a 100x magnification then there is no difference.
When you are dropping 800$ on 5 gr. of cardboard you may want to know if it's legit or not, just saying. Surely there is no ''real'' difference for everyone else, but maybe the owner just wants to be sure.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kiblast
When you are dropping 800$ on 5 gr. of cardboard you may want to know if it's legit or not, just saying. Surely there is no ''real'' difference for everyone else, but maybe the owner just wants to be sure.
The problem here is, no one here can say for sure if those are real or not. They look real, they seem real, the only reason why anyone would say they're not real is because someone bought an uncut sheet some time in the past in that town. Even Sdematt said he's not sure. All we have here is hearsay and no real evidence of foul play.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Furthermore, someone who does have the proper knowledge can't share it since it's a trade secret with regards to WotC's production line. Not that they would even be on this site/thread.
The amount to be gained from creating "good enough" forgeries is enough incentive for such things to exist. They are only created because there is a ludicrous market for miscuts cards.
Don't support the market on miscuts, crimps, and "good enough fakes".
$800 for a piece of cardboard almost put the card valued at more than 3 times higher than gold. (~$50 per gram)
Keep that in mind.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Personally, like Ben was saying over on Librarities, it's funny that all his miscuts are playable cards. Usually, you'd test the waters of Ebay with chaff to get people sending in questions about what else you have coming, or use the chaff as advertising for upcoming auctions. He just flat out put up playable cards.
Again, the location seems a little too sketchy.
Remember, Dark Beta is a professionally manufactured fake. If someone can do that and fool most people, it's not hard to get a sheet cut professionally.
Also, there's a difference between a factory mistake and possibly this guy cutting the sheet. One was a mistake, one is intentional to deceive and to profit. It would be like buying a Beta sheet and miscutting it. Sure, it's the only miscut Beta sheet of cards known to still exist*, but that doesn't make it *real*, so to speak.
* Note: As far as the collector's community has been talking, there are no Beta/Alpha cards showing two cards. Either it never happened, the sheets were destroyed, or someone has them all, as none have been seen by anyone on Librarities. My point here is that if I made some miscut cards, that wouldn't make them true miscuts.
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
* Note: As far as the collector's community has been talking, there are no Beta/Alpha cards showing two cards.
There are Alphas, but no Betas that I have seen. Beta BACK miscuts, yes, but not front ones that I know of.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I stand corrected. But, how much of the other card is shown in Alpha?
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
A couple trends I have noticed in card prices, at least on SCGs:
- The price of Unlimited duals relative to revised duals has gone up substantially There used to be a about a 10 dollar difference. A Revised Underground is 130 and an Unlimited one is 180. Just back at SCG Kansas City I picked up a couple of HP (though quite nice looking in sleeve) Unlimited Undergrounds for about $75 apiece from SCG.
- Also I have noticed the price of Alpha and Beta cards in general starting to separate, with Alpha starting to cost more. For a long time A/B cards were matched pretty equally in price. And back in the day, Alpha was always less expensive than Beta because there was residual stigma from when Alpha was not tournament legal.
- Also Jace is back up to $80 on SCG. I won an Ebay auction for one a few days ago for $55 with free shipping however.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
That's because SCG knows there's demand and doesn't want to lose out.
I'm not sure what you're talking about with the A/B thing. That's been like that on Mint stuff for a while. There's a few Alpha collectors that REALLY go after Mint Alpha like mad. For me, there's no point bidding on it since a) I'm not fond of Alpha, but I'll take it if it's the right price, b) the prices of Mint Alpha can be insane, as in, 2-4x regular prices, just because they're trying to do Mint Alpha sets. Meh, doesn't bug me.
I have noticed the Unlimited Duals difference, but to me, it's slightly stupid. Yes, I understand they look nicer, and it's hard to find NM UNL duals since they were beat to shit and played with, but 180 for a whiteborder Sea? Please.
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
So what is OK? $800 for a beta, $400 for a clean FBB?
