[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

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Originally Posted by Tvox

Also, just to be a stickler, sudden shock could be countered by counterbalance, the only target for it'd probably be Snapcaster beats though...

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Actually, that was the reason I said it won't be countered rather than can't be countered.

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

I disagree, IT->EtW is great T1/T2 (note that Kai does not play Ad Nauseam MD) against most decks and in fact I kill most Miracles players with EtW postboard especially, on the other hand I haven't explored something like 3x EtW as a SB plan vs. Miracles (to narrow imo)

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This opens you up to all kinds of countermagic though. Empty is good for the same reason Tendrils are: people can't interact with storm triggers. So yeah, I'll have to agree with Togores here, Empty is at its best when you have multiples and you can cast them from your hand early often. I have actually done this ages ago, but I don't feel the metagame is anywhere near a point where this is good right now. Although, to be fair, it might be good vs. BUG Delver. Pretty sure it isn't worth the 3-4 slots though.

been a while since i've posted, but i have only just started playing regularly again after a break post GP NJ.

currently prepping for the tales event in PA this coming weekend, and i've been messing around with my sb

what i have sleeved up for this weekend is (stock mb w/ 7 discard, 1 preordain, 1 sdt, and 1 grim tutor)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Massacre
1 Krosan Grip
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tendrils of Agony

i've been working with another friend to try and lay out a plan for sideboarding for every relevant deck that we might run into (and yes, obviously sb guides aren't meant to be followed explicitly so things might change, but its a good way to bring up some basic discussions)

one for example is decay vs chain against wasteland decks. obviously chain is much easier to cast off a basic island, but against decks like uwr that run red blasts or dnt that can just vial a bounced hate bear back into play, is the decay worth turning on their wastes? rug delver? what about decks like bug? no red blast and a chain on a null rod or drs might be enough if needed, but unless we are ready to go off chain is useless against a card like lili.

another topic that people seem to be divided on is siding out ad nauseam in certain matchups. miracles is a good example. personally i like keeping it in, as it provides a late game draw spell and can sometimes just act as that t1 crutch when they keep an opener without force. even while bringing in the second tendrils i feel like the upsides of leaving ad nauseam in are just too strong.

i'll post my full in/out sideboard list when im finished, but in the meantime i think these points are fine for discussion (and i realize they have been discussed before, but they remain relevant questions with answers that change and the topic of discussion in this thread is always cyclical)

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Do you guys find yourselves not needing a Bob/Pyromancer type of threat to bring in against miracles?

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I'd suggest the 3rd and the 4th AD + the evergreen Krosan Grip, just to be sure that in response to a [whatever threat] they won't be able to tap the Top and draw that goddamn Flusterstorm left on top.


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Originally Posted by meffeo

I'd suggest the 3rd and the 4th AD + the evergreen Krosan Grip, just to be sure that in response to a [whatever threat] they won't be able to tap the Top and draw that goddamn Flusterstorm left on top.

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http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...3659&type=card

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Originally Posted by CabalTherapy

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...3659&type=card

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Where's the LIKE button?


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Odds are, if you can resolve City of Solitude, you can also resolve Past in Flames, Ad Nauseam or Infernal Tutor.

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Originally Posted by Jona

Odds are, if you can resolve City of Solitude, you can also resolve Past in Flames, Ad Nauseam or Infernal Tutor.

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Yeah basically you just increase the amount of business spells in your deck or let's say 'must counter spells'. Most of the time it has been a 3 maan duress for me.

Running the double PiF main deck already helps me out against counters a bit. I like the third and maybe the fourth decay just because I need to kill stuff like CB, Cage, and RIP.

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Originally Posted by Jona

Odds are, if you can resolve City of Solitude, you can also resolve Past in Flames, Ad Nauseam or Infernal Tutor.

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No! And it is not a cc3 Duress either. It doesn't care about Flusterstorm and hardly gets hit by Counterbalance. It is like a permanent Silence effect and works for me very well. Additionally, it tests the water if it is too dangerous or clear. But if you guys don't like it: even better for me since the surprise factor is preserved (at least at bigger tournaments).

i was about to say that. i can't win against my opponent which always leaves a flusterstorm on top with his SDT, since i can't discard it away :(

One trick that is mana intensive and tough sometimes but works is to decay the top so they are forced to flip it, then you can discard their spell. It's not as simple as something like city of solitude, but it is a line.

Also, that's what Xantid Swarm is for.

I don't think a 3 mana protection spell is a good idea. Xantid Swarm is nice, but I keep on finding that it dies to the removal that my opponent's correctly don't side out. So maybe City of Solitude or Defense Grid would be nice, but they sure walk into Daze and Spell Pierce a lot.
Anyways here is the list that I have been running to success in local Legacy tournaments and on MTGO.

2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony

2 Xantid Swarm
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Massacre

new topic:
has anyone experience with countermagic in the mainboard?

My friend in japan plays this at the moment,have a closer look:

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...3b9b688f14.jpg


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The deck is cool, but here it seems force/daze is only viable to counter opponent threat/combo/discard. but sometimes we just go off before these things become relevant:smile:

our counter spell is still bad with LED/Infernal interaction, which means we can't protect our own combo against opponent counter spell:frown:

Seems unnecessary... Just PiF yo. Who cares about counters when you can go off multiple times? Went 3-0-1 tonight with my last list -3 pyromancers, +1 KGrip, +1 Lightning Bolt, +1 Pyroblast, mostly because I lacked decays and KGrips. Beat Elves, Jund, and UB Tezzerator. That seems like a real bad match up. Chalice+force and such is pretty bad for us. Luckily I somehow fought through game 1 chalice on 1 and a force in hand because PiF is a good card. He locked me out in game two with Chalice, 3ball and then after I decay the chalice on 1 a second chalice. Seems rough.

I did some test ganes yesterday.

Daze is almost always a hardcouterspell until turn 3.
Remember that this is the turn when we usually win the game.
We can counter deathrite shamans,counterbalances and hymn to tourachs easily with daze,so it's supposed to be a proactive counterspell.

Countering a Turn 2 Thalia isn't that bad actually.

I don't want to push this deck idea but my testing games where actually not that bad.

But i would cut fows for additional cantrips/petals

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Originally Posted by mishima_kazuya

I don't think a 3 mana protection spell is a good idea. Xantid Swarm is nice, but I keep on finding that it dies to the removal that my opponent's correctly don't side out. So maybe City of Solitude or Defense Grid would be nice, but they sure walk into Daze and Spell Pierce a lot.

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Nice; I like your statement, especially because it shows that you a) did not properly read about City of Solitude and b) have not tested it.

Daze seems funny to try
Did you ever use daze then drop the bounced land for mana?

Daze gives you a storm for the cost of one landdrop.

Semms nice. But idk if in the 1st turns its good to fall back on lands...

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Originally Posted by CabalTherapy

Nice; I like your statement, especially because it shows that you a) did not properly read about City of Solitude and b) have not tested it.

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I mean, of course I did not test it. But what am I missing about City of Solitude? It costs three to cast and players can only activate abilities and cast spells on their own turns.

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Originally Posted by mishima_kazuya

I mean, of course I did not test it. But what am I missing about City of Solitude? It costs three to cast and players can only activate abilities and cast spells on their own turns.

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" but they sure walk into Daze and Spell Pierce a lot. "

- Certainly, no one plays City against Tempo.

Ever thought about to brainstorm in resp to a wasteland and daze your own brainstorm while returning the targeted land.
Of course you pay 1 ;)
Reminds me at good old gush in Vintage against Stripmine.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we should swap discard for counter.
Discard and counter are completely different things in this deck.
we still need to discard countermagic to go off.
Daze is just an affitional way to get rid of:

Turn 1

Thoughtseize
DRs
Senseis Top

Turn 2
CB
Any Hatebear
Hymn to tourach

Turn 3

Vendillion Clique

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

Ever thought about to brainstorm in resp to a wasteland and daze your own brainstorm while returning the targeted land.
Of course you pay 1 ;)
Reminds me at good old gush in Vintage against Stripmine.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we should swap discard for counter.
Discard and counter are completely different things in this deck.
we still need to discard countermagic to go off.
Daze is just an affitional way to get rid of:

Turn 1

Thoughtseize
DRs
Senseis Top

Turn 2
CB
Any Hatebear
Hymn to tourach

Turn 3

Vendillion Clique

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Wasn't Daze a topic of discussion in the Tin Fins thread a year ago? Even with them being a much faster deck, forcing the opponents to more aggressively assert themselves, and requiring less mana so the bouncing lands didn't hurt them as much, it didn't end up sticking there.

Bouncing a land and possibly making it harder to get hell bent for infernal tutor also seems like an issue if you don't have an LED

The only couterspell I'd consider in a storm deck is Pact of Negation as it costs 0 and isn't card disadvantage. That said, has anyone tried it?

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Originally Posted by Mastikor

The only couterspell I'd consider in a storm deck is Pact of Negation as it costs 0 and isn't card disadvantage. That said, has anyone tried it?

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http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...8255&type=card

And yes, I have played Pact of Negation in Pact SI and it was solid.

I was referring to maindeck, but thanks.

cheers

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

new topic:
has anyone experience with countermagic in the mainboard?

My friend in japan plays this at the moment,have a closer look:

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...3b9b688f14.jpg


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

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not in classic ant, it does not make sense here

FoW is crap on the other hand Daze is a neat idea, in a world where you have kill attempt T2/T3 (I understand where is Tinfins/reanimator going with it) it might work handfull of times, conf 2GT+EtW is fine, but at just 1 LP? Daze is horrible topdeck in longer games and does nothing in IT-LED interaction, not very proactive, against Fow+land untapped it's embarassing... how does it work for him(obv it does if he plays it)? do not opps just learn to play around it? I can't imagine this being better than those Thoughtseize in SB, Daze forces to combo agressively which the deckstructure contradicst imo, also 4 U sea is overkill a fetch might be better

SB is hard to see but I guess 4 Confidants + 3DoN

As long as we lean on the LED + IT interaction we can't really run counters. I'd rather have Lotus and DT than FoW in our deck.

Hey guys, check out our podcast episode on ANT if you are interested in some Storm discussion! http://www.thebrainstormshow.com/unc...-tendrils-ant/

Good job in Dallas Mr Scherer !
how was the IGG in side ?

yeah, i guess ill gotten gains is nearly unplayable now.
I mean, siding it against decks without countermagic? We don't actually need it because we win most of the time with all the other kill lines anyway.

I'm with you, Kai, on this one. It seems like IGG is outclassed by Past in Flames in particular. IGG is from before my time, so to speak, so I will admit to having not tested it. Might have some sweet applications I'm not considering, but barring that, I can't see why it's there. Maybe mr. Scherer can share his motivations for including it? :smile:

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

I'm with you, Kai, on this one. It seems like IGG is outclassed by Past in Flames in particular. IGG is from before my time, so to speak, so I will admit to having not tested it. Might have some sweet applications I'm not considering, but barring that, I can't see why it's there. Maybe mr. Scherer can share his motivations for including it? :smile:

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I have used it in Pact SI long time ago in order to have an easy loop against non-Force of Will decks. After PiF's release, IGG stayed main and PiF in the side against blue decks, where I had to grind a bit. But, why do I write about it... It is a completely different deck and certainly, PiF is miles better. Nonethless, congratulations to the winner but I don't like to see ANT winning tournaments at the moment. Hopefully, we will lose the DtB status next month.

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Originally Posted by CabalTherapy

I have used it in Pact SI long time ago in order to have an easy loop against non-Force of Will decks. After PiF's release, IGG stayed main and PiF in the side against blue decks, where I had to grind a bit. But, why do I write about it... It is a completely different deck and certainly, PiF is miles better. Nonethless, congratulations to the winner but I don't like to see ANT winning tournaments at the moment. Hopefully, we will lose the DtB status next month.

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I know, right?

I've stopped bringing ANT to my LGS. There is always 1-2 other guys playing it, there is always MUD in the room, and in general people are just always prepared for it with 5-12 sideboard slots dedicated.

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Originally Posted by CabalTherapy

I have used it in Pact SI long time ago in order to have an easy loop against non-Force of Will decks. After PiF's release, IGG stayed main and PiF in the side against blue decks, where I had to grind a bit. But, why do I write about it... It is a completely different deck and certainly, PiF is miles better. Nonethless, congratulations to the winner but I don't like to see ANT winning tournaments at the moment. Hopefully, we will lose the DtB status next month.

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True in every sentence. Caleb Scherer looks to be very consistent in SCGs, congrats. Yet I don't like his list much.

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

I know, right?

I've stopped bringing ANT to my LGS. There is always 1-2 other guys playing it, there is always MUD in the room, and in general people are just always prepared for it with 5-12 sideboard slots dedicated.

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a motivating enviroment :) I believe this prepares you best, If you can succeed there you'd succeed everywhere

Played this weekend in Sevilla a event went sadly 3-3 due to bad beats but have a question on something.

1-2 mud
G2 I was oje mana / ritual short to go of with a lodesone in hand and combo even without removing him.

2-1 infect
Discarted one guy one game and he had no pressure and decayes another when my opp whent all in.

2-0 thopters
G1 keep one lander but strong.
Preordain bottom go.
He land go.
I ponder see petal brainstorm tendrills
I make petal duress he brainstorms and i take other brainstorm leaving him with 2 jaces, lands and a thopter.
Petal brainstorm (storm 5), another petal (6) ritual (7) led (8) infernal (9) tendrills (boom).
G2 i decay his canonist and win because of my turn 1 top filtering all my draws.

1-2 goblins
G1 he has turn 3 thalia and i was all time one mana short to go off.
G2 i discard his thorn, he rips a thalia and I go of and win with thalia on table.
G3 I duress his hand with rip shitt and thalia, discard rip. he plays thalia and I decay. He just drew in 2 draws the missing land and thorn. Then chalice and I loose.

0-2 canadian
G1 he has no pressure and I end up with a hand of lots of mana. Lots of lands and infernal. Cantriping and so he end up playing a goyf with 4 lands and i never see discard so i go off with 1000 mana on pool the turn before I die he forces and im dead.
G2 i shredd his hand and he has almost no pressure i have a discard, lots of mana but never draw a turor or bussines and loose.

Sad to loose both games so, when both where +10 turns and I failed to get the missing piece.


NOW MY QUESION, sb vs goblins I had massacre he has thalia and guys, he also play plateau.
I sidded decays and chains. WOULD YOU GUYS HAVE SIDED The 2 masaacre I have? He has cavenr and vial, also artifact hate. I can use massacre to destroy his field for example ritual + massacre when he has no plains.

Thoughts?

Thanks

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

I know, right?

I've stopped bringing ANT to my LGS. There is always 1-2 other guys playing it, there is always MUD in the room, and in general people are just always prepared for it with 5-12 sideboard slots dedicated.

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Just play hurkil recall and call it a day :D

You can be super troll and with 4 hurkil its impossible to loose. Or if you play badlans and tropical you can side out ant and play pulverice ^,..,^

So, this is completely just a casual experiment but I decided to voice over a couple of recorded matches of mine from mtgo (mtgo saves your most recent matches and allows you to rewatch them).

I'm terribly inexperienced with doing videos like this so any feedback is welcome. Not even sure who'd want to watch them, but I might do some more in the near future :smile:

I'm also planning on doing some actual streaming at some point but still working out the kinks of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfbYS2XqTQo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2qNoAg8KM