[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

There's a big legacy tournament coming for the Halloween this year in a city near me, and I'm not sure which deck to play to score a Top4 place. This is my collection for now:

https://deckbox.org/sets/766621?s=i&o=d


There are four pairs of shocklands (2x R/G, 2x W/R, 2x B/R, 2x W/U) coming next week, an order from Card Kingdom with random stuff that will be updated on tuesday (Baneslayers, etc.), and I still have time for a new order to buy some cards, for around 60-80 dollars.
Since I prefer to play classic Abzan Rhino sdmatt's lists, which brought me many top4 places, I want to build a version to playtest against tier1 decks to get some experience (which I think there would be a ton). Any suggestions? :D

Well, I guess try what I posted on the previous page? Glad I can try to help. PM me and I'll send you some signed Rhinos ;)

-Matt

My personal recommendation would be something in between ralf and matts list from the previous page. Rhino is best when he either has a stick in his mouth or looping etb. Id look to be doing both. Painful truths is currently untested so I wouldnt go that route just yet. Keep in mind gurmag is the new fat in town and lines up extremely well against deed rhino and decay bring atleast 3 path/plow. If you are planning on running shocklands you'll need the thragtusk.


Something like
4 vet
2 stoneforge
4 rhino
1 sigarda
1 courser
1 deathrite
1 scooze
1 teeg

1 sofi
1 jitte
1

4 therapy
3 top
3 plow
3 decay
3 deed
4 zenith
1 nightmare


22 land

Well, since I'm hoarding Rhinos, the more the merrier. :P

I'll sleeve up that list and playtest against my buddies, since I can't log on Cockatrice. -.-'

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/funky-rhino/

My current list. Suggestions are welcome (especially sideboard). Decks i really struggle against: Lands, Mud, 12 Post, Omni

Why are you running Night? I'd definitely run Deluge over it instead, and if you really wanted to, run it in the board.

My suggestions for your mainboard:

-1 Strangleroot
-1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
-2 STP
-1 Veteran Explorer

+2 Path to Exile
+1 Toxic Deluge
+1 Sylvan Library
+2 Painful Truths

Sideboard suggestions:

1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thoughtseize
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Krosan Grip
1 Golgari Charm
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Extirpate

Also, I'm going to try Equipment and see how I like it.

-Matt

Intent plays well with stoneforge over the fourth zenith slot.

Intent also plays incredibly well with Strangleroot. How about dumping Birthing Pod, pumping the number of Strangelroots & Vet Ex to 4 and run 4 flipping Diabolic Intent..? It's the coolest card ever if you don't care about your creatures dying (I also like to abuse Fierce Empath to that end. GSZ it, fetch a Tasigur/Angler with it, feed it to an Intent, fetch whatever tickles your pickle and rock on).

I've been running 4 Intent in my crazy ass build for the longest time and I can say with the utmost confidence that it gives you wonderful SB games. When doing so the manabase does scream for a Dryad Arbor though. Fetch Arbor -> Diabolic Intent is a play I make quite often.

My major point for the list though is that the StPs should be PtEs. No need to give your opponent more life, this deck durdles enough as it is.

Also, when running SFM, try to run a Grafted Wargear. Makes every topdecked creature a 4/3 (in the worst case scenario). Dropping it on a Strangleroot is just funny as fuck and nicely/easily breaks symetry with opposing Batterskulls/Tasigurs etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Intent also plays incredibly well with Strangleroot. How about dumping Birthing Pod, pumping the number of Strangelroots & Vet Ex to 4 and run 4 flipping Diabolic Intent..? It's the coolest card ever if you don't care about your creatures dying.

I've been running 4 Intent in my crazy ass build for the longest time and I can say with the utmost confidence that it gives you wonderful SB games.

My major point for the list though is that the StPs should be PtEs. No need to give your opponent more life, this deck durdles enough as it is.

Also, when running SFM, try to run a Grafted Wargear. Makes every topdeck a 4/3 (in the worst case scenario). Dropping it on a Strangleroot is just funny as fuck.

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The color requirement to make this strategy viable is very high:
1) You need GG by T2 to play Strangleroot.
2) You need BB by T3 to play Diabolic Intent + a 1 CMC discard spell (worst case scenario you are facing a combo deck)

In order to achieve such requirement you will have to play :
- 20 green sources to have >90% chances of playing Strangleroot by T2
- 19 black sources to have >90% chances of playing Intent + discard spell in the same turn.
- Your first or second mana must be either a Bayou or an Overgrown Tomb

I don't pretend it is going to work but for demonstration purpose I would definitely stick to a pure G/B Nic Fit shell.


4 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Verdant catacombs
4 Windswept heath
4 Bayou
3 Overgrown Tomb

4 Veteran explorer
4 Strangleroot Geist
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Vorapede
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan

1 Batterskull

3 Liliana of the Veil

2 Pernicious Deed

4 Abrupt Decay

4 Diabolic Intent
3 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal therapy
3 Green Sun Zenith

SB: 1 Dryad Militant
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 2 Stain the Mind
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Pithing Needle


Thrun is not included since I believe Geist/Batterskull can do some of "his" duty. Haste is more often than not a very powerful weapon.

Sideboard is a mess but you get the general idea.

I think you for sure want to go junk colors. The added power cards are worth it. I also think people are underestimating the painful truth card. The only other draw 3 card nic fit has played is harmonize and 3 mana is very different than 4. Three mana is available on turn 2 between DRS and vet/therapy. The white splash has plenty of ways to gain life. Rhino, DRS, equips, ooze. If I was playing a junk deck right now I would be playing 2 possibly 3 depending on space.

I havent played with this card but from a theoretical stand point I am very high on it especially in this deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Why are you running Night? I'd definitely run Deluge over it instead, and if you really wanted to, run it in the board.

My suggestions for your mainboard:

-1 Strangleroot
-1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
-2 STP
-1 Veteran Explorer

+2 Path to Exile
+1 Toxic Deluge
+1 Sylvan Library
+2 Painful Truths

Sideboard suggestions:

1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thoughtseize
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Krosan Grip
1 Golgari Charm
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Extirpate

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Thanks Matt, i will try you sideboard out online and see how it works. Also i like the swap of stp for path to exile (i ramp my opponent anyway and maybe i can race a lands player now once in a while).
The idea for nights came from a list a friend showed me. Many decks can just scoop to it (in my meta there are many delver and d&t decks). In addition it is a sac outlet for explorers (well, you mostly don't need them anymore after playing nights but w/e). Also it works ok with strangleroot geist (which i included for plainswalker duty... works soso)
I will think about the painful truth part (library is too much of a nombo with deed i think) though i think sword of fire and ice takes partly that role.

I also was thinking about a second phyrexian tower for more explosive starts but i don't know if it's too conditional.
SFM and equipments are at least crazy fun and rhinos with swords is a pleasure in itself (I'm still searching for a reasonable way to get them rhinos flying to win through style points once in a while)

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ent-2015-09-28

Good news. The remaining Delve menace is gone, and we can actually exist again now. Now if only RUG Delver comes back, we can thrive again.

Uhhhhhh.... I am not particularly happy with the ban update but then again I was casting Dig. Bug lists lost the biggest upgrade over other lists. Not sure what direction I want to take with the deck.

Time to revisit the grind: Punishing Jund Fit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

Uhhhhhh.... I am not particularly happy with the ban update but then again I was casting Dig. Bug lists lost the biggest upgrade over other lists. Not sure what direction I want to take with the deck.

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RIP Kiora/Master + Dig Through Time, we never got the chance to know you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ent-2015-09-28

Good news. The remaining Delve menace is gone, and we can actually exist again now. Now if only RUG Delver comes back, we can thrive again.

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+1

In a BUGx pod list, how we can deal with Aggro Loam and Lands?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Memories of the Time

In a BUGx pod list, how we can deal with Aggro Loam and Lands?

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If you run the trinket mage package you can get pithing needle out of the board which is good vs them, naming thespians stage or knight (there are other good cards to name as well). You also have deathrite and scavenging ooze. However the matchup is not going to be great no matter what. Punishing fire is just really good vs the deck with lots of small creatures and there's not much to be done about it. You could play surgical extraction I suppose, but I don't know that it helps enough to be worth it.

I run 2 surgical extractions in my bug SB, though I also play 2 snap casters. Lands is never going to be a good match up for a deck with a slow clock and no wastelands. Scooze, drs and you might be able to randomly steal a game. post board try to hit loam. The aggro loam should be easier. Deed their board and keep them off knights or bobs.

I'm excited, once again. Prepare for the midrange decks to creep back into the format, and probably a bit less Pyromancer Grixis.

This also actually makes truths a better card. You now get to run a 3 for 1 card and the blue decks do not get to counter with a 2 for 1. Omni also becomes Sneak and show wich I have to imagine is a better match up. Discard is much stronger against them. Liliana shuts of the show part so hey, maybe things are looking for the Rock.

Good bye blue control, hello veteran explorer my old friend.

As sad as it is to see my grixis deck go, man is it going to be fun to cast prime time in legacy again.

On a side note, is anybody still playing the jund nic fit with punishing fire? Interested to see what people are thinking of for our one of's for the potential new meta showing more aggro/midrange strategies.

I'm thinking about Back To basics too. Not sure if 4 Leyline of the Void would be too much

I considered B2B but I fetch my duals fairly often because of the mana requirements. If you can support it though it is the blue blood moon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralf

I don't pretend it is going to work but for demonstration purpose I would definitely stick to a pure G/B Nic Fit shell.

Stuff...

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That build is so incredibly far off from what I had in mind. I was thinking of something along the lines of this:


3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Phyrexian Tower

4 Veteran explorer
3 Strangleroot Geist
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Fierce Empath
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Karador, Ghost Chieftain
1 Grave Titan

1 Batterskull
1 Grafted Wargear

4 Path to Exile
3 Pernicious Deed

4 Diabolic Intent
4 Cabal therapy
3 Green Sun Zenith


This way, GSZ allows you to tutor up a big (and yet possibly cheap) threat whilst also leaving you food for your Diabolic Intent. Karador is incredible in the late game, if unanswered. It lets you pull ahead so incredibly fast, and when combined with Eternal Witness it's just nuts (even if it's only 1 creature each turn).

Also, Diabolic Intent isn't a card one wants to cast as soon as possible, so there's no need with being overly concerned with the speed of it. The trick to Diabolic Intent is keeping it in hand for as long as you can only to find exactly what you need just when you need it most. It allows you to turn games around completely.

Looking at this build, one could drop the Strangleroots though, add another Stoneforge and some more removal. It's a bit easier on the manabase. I'd say this build lacks a bit of the punching power of our regular build, but gains in consistency. It's about the same basis I use for my Summoner's Egg build.

Lets be honest, Jitte is better than grafted war gear. If you do nothing with the Jitte besides pump than after the first hit it even becomes better than war gear. I do not buy that it is a better equipment.

I do like the empath for delve guy but I do think Tasigur might not be right. I played 2 of them when he first came out but I have decided the potential for CA is not worth the loss of a power (4/5 to 5/5). I think angler is better with karakas in the field. I also like Tombstalker. Flying is relevant whether it is with jitte or the war gear punching them in the face is going to be easier with that. Last week I ran 2 stalkers in my Bug midrange build and I had forgotten about him.

3 DRS and 4 vet is certainly a lot of mana dorks. I think I would shave some of those numbers. I would also play some amount of tops plus either library or try the new painful truths card.

Yeah, Jitte is good. I just like that Grafted Wargear doesn't need you to invest any mana in it after casting it.

Concerning Tasigur vs. Angler - the most annoying thing about Tasigur is that it's legendary. Sometimes, its ability does come in handy, but those times are few. You indeed mostly use him like a beatstick. So in those cases Angler would be better. As for Angler vs. Tombstalker - B vs BB is quite a big difference.

The war gear certainly speeds up the aggro plan. Not denying that. I just feel the loss of secondary abilities is not offset enough by the speed of the war gear. Hey, if you like the war gear all power to you. +3 power on the front end is not nothing.

I would choose Angler over Tasigur if that is the choice. I would heavily consider adding stalker instead as I believe that flying+equipment is worth the 1 B but I dont think its strictly better.

I am going to give my dig through time nic fit deck 1 last go this week. After that I dont know yet. The card selection was so huge in making the blue splash IMO so good. It let the deck run so many powerful singletons and with the mana snap dig was fairly common as well. I am not sure the build I have can survive that without an over hall. Probe therapy is still good but without delve draw spells I am not sure if probe is still worth it.
Rug delver, and actually the other delvers too should all make a resurgence. Dnt and shardless bug as well. That does bode well for Deed decks. Elves could be hit or miss as people have at times on this thread complained about that matchup but I have found it pretty good actually.

The bigger problem is that miracles is still going to be a/the top deck and I have not seen a build yet that I would actually call favorable game 1.

In my experience pod has a good Mu against miracle

Inherently, Veteran Explorer is a non-bo with Miracles, which is why many lists have shaved from 4 Vets down to 3 or 2 and replaced it with Deathrite Shaman. You're definitely boarding these gents out in the Miracles match.

But, since most of us were still playing Choke or Tsunami a week ago, it looks like we'll be good to go. 5-6 manadorks seems to be the right call. I'm on 2/3 right now, but 3/3 also seems just fine since it's just enough acceleration when we need it, postboard.

Suffice to say, I'm excited Delver is back, since you know, Rhino + Deed.

-Matt

Just built this to test. In goldfishing, Painful Truths seems really strong. I think this is the best deck for it, because how many decks can play a 3-mana, 3-color sorcery that bolts you. Still I know this list is not optimized, Kitchen Finks seems necessary but Thrun is such a tank it's hard to say no.

3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Veteran Explorer
2 Siege Rhino
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Eternal Witness
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Painful Truths
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Path to Exile
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Batterskull

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Marsh Flats

For the board, I think I want some mix of Thalia, Teeg, more hand disruption, maybe surgical. Carpet of Flowers for Miracles. I'm on the fence about the main board, I'm considering cutting Hymn for more removal and just boarding into hatebears-and-discard.dec for combo matches. I also would like some sort of evasive planes walker but I think they are all double white....

If you are just looking for a generic walker to help out in post board games against grindy decks I would recommend the flip garruk. While 4 mana is a lot it also lets you convert sfm/vet/arbor into things like rhino/thrun/witness. I am not sure he is good enough to make a main board but he is good against other SFM decks and miracles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

If you are just looking for a generic walker to help out in post board games against grindy decks I would recommend the flip garruk. While 4 mana is a lot it also lets you convert sfm/vet/arbor into things like rhino/thrun/witness. I am not sure he is good enough to make a main board but he is good against other SFM decks and miracles.

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DTT banned means Lili is back, gentlemen.

She is the second best PW after Jace.
One that cannot be left unchecked by the decks that tend to go over us (if you see what I mean).

What decks does everybody sideboard out their explorers? I know miracles is an easy one but what else is there

Well boys, with DTT banned it's time for us to get out of the closet once again ! I'll post an updated list soon.

On a side note, i've played a Nic Fit list during thesource tournament, but i kinda forgot to include the SDT in my list. That kinda screwed me over and went 1-2...

Holo.

The more I noodle around with this deck, the more I think we might really have something. If you think about how games will go against fair decks, you will either be developing your board with must-answer cards that require them to spend time and mana on counters/removal, or using your own suite of answers on their threats if they are on the offensive. And then you drop this bomb on them and fill your hand with more insane value cards. Yes, they will have lots of selection, but at some point, you're ripping bombs and removal while they're shuffling away other cantrips to find their business. And that could include cards like Lightning Bolt and Abrupt Decay that are limited in their utility against us. STP sucks, I guess, but then again we have Painful Truths.

I am going to try and find some space for a green 2-drop (I guess that would have to be Scavenging Ooze, but I don't really like that card) and a Finks. Some other way to recur, maybe Recurring Nightmare, would also be nice.

I don't think there's a way to make this strategy good against combo pre-board. I think this is the kind of board I want:

3 Thoughtseize/Duress
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Surgical Extraction/other
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Nihil Spellbomb/Containment Priest
1 open

I expect to lean heavily on discard-and-extract vs. most combo decks, with the upside of Thalia against storm. Thalia also a way to needle decks that don't benefit from the VetRamp even more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

If you are just looking for a generic walker to help out in post board games against grindy decks I would recommend the flip garruk. While 4 mana is a lot it also lets you convert sfm/vet/arbor into things like rhino/thrun/witness. I am not sure he is good enough to make a main board but he is good against other SFM decks and miracles.

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Right... I like the card but I was thinking more along the lines of an Elspeth that grants flying. I can envision ground stalls still happening (though trample on Rhino does help)

I just remembered that the Khans Sorin makes flying tokens so that might be the answer. Also lifelinks your guys in play for more Painful Truths.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maharis

Right... I like the card but I was thinking more along the lines of an Elspeth that grants flying. I can envision ground stalls still happening (though trample on Rhino does help)

I just remembered that the Khans Sorin makes flying tokens so that might be the answer. Also lifelinks your guys in play for more Painful Truths.

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At least, for queen sake, put a Sigarda somewhere in your list !!!

I would also look twice at the list I have provided a couple pages back.
I can understand why one wants to keep SDT + Deed in a list but when you have access to such powerful draw engine, you can easily leave sweepers at home and play cheaper spot removal, because you will be able to cope with the blue quality with "quantity".

6/7 spot removal & 6/7 spot discard MD are a very good ratio against most T1 & T2 decks. If you add the grindy elements of Nic Fit into the mix, you have something really interesting.

I have my cash weekly tonight so I am taking DTT for one last spin. After that I will redesign my BUG deck and post a list. I think deed will actually become better in the new meta so that is a plus for those running that card. I have fallen in love with probe therapy but without dig in my deck I am not sure the probe is worth it anymore. I could always play tombstalker but I doubt I will.

I board vet out against any deck that just making land drops will provide me enough time that ramping is unneeded. Basically miracles, uw blade, or other slowish control decks.

I think Lili is for sure a walker we want access to again. I would probably run 2. She is is also a hedge against flooding as trading lands or late game vets for their cards is fine when we have multiple edicts on tap. I probably woulnt run another walker unless its the garruk though. The fact that it is removal/tutor is better than a 1/1 token maker that can jump things IMO. Garruk also has an overrun that gives trample too so there is that. Still wouldnt main deck either.

Ralf is right, sigarda is better than thrun if you have white.

I am still a believer that deed is a way to break open games. Sure you have matchups like omni or storm where it is likely dead. Lily helps here and if in blue so does jace and brainstorm. Deed is such a unique effect in legacy, and it is truly a CA spell unlike 1 for 1 removal. I would not removal all copies from any list I play (aside from any reanimate fit decks maybe).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

I think deed will actually become better in the new meta so that is a plus for those running that card.

I board vet out against any deck that just making land drops will provide me enough time that ramping is unneeded. Basically miracles, uw blade, or other slowish control decks.

I think Lili is for sure a walker we want access to again. I would probably run 2. She is is also a hedge against flooding as trading lands or late game vets for their cards is fine when we have multiple edicts on tap. I probably woulnt run another walker unless its the garruk though. The fact that it is removal/tutor is better than a 1/1 token maker that can jump things IMO. Garruk also has an overrun that gives trample too so there is that. Still wouldnt main deck either.

Ralf is right, sigarda is better than thrun if you have white.

I am still a believer that deed is a way to break open games. Deed is such a unique effect in legacy, and it is truly a CA spell unlike 1 for 1 removal. I would not removal all copies from any list I play (aside from any reanimate fit decks maybe).

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Deed is actually a strong option and I'm not going to deny its power.
Unfortunately, aside from very specific MU where it shines like no other sweeper, it is more likely than not a very costly "spot removal". Even if Nic Fit is a fringe deck, there are less and less players who tend to overextend when they are facing a veteran.deck