[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

i guess i need to admit...i havent touched dreadstill since the tournament where i smashed 8 aggro decks before walking home in first place.
Iv actually switched to bant.
anyways im really glad to see dreadstill doing well.The reason i switched i was tired of being in the defensive so much vs zoo it was starting to get annoying seeing 2 3/3's on t2...standstill was constantly a dead card for me.
Now if this meta calms down some i will pick it up again *i got all the cards still sitting in a deck just waiting*
I do agree that wasteland while he played very well did very well in avoiding zoo all day.zoo is not unwinnable no but it sure as hell aint fun playing against it.

I've got to say Eddie, you're lucky none of the moderators go anywhere near the Dreadstill thread, your grammar is atrocious.

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Originally Posted by J.V.

I've got to say Eddie, you're lucky none of the moderators go anywhere near the Dreadstill thread, your grammar is atrocious.

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LOL :laugh:

I also have to admit that I'm not playing Dreadstill a lot recently.
The thread almost died and a new fatty came out: Marit Lage! I'm trying to build something around Dark Depths and I'm changing my mind quite often on the type of deck I want to put it in.
Btw did top 8 with a list that played 4 Dreadnoughts and 4 Dark Depths, but was really unstable.

If the thread becomes interesting again I'll be glad to give my opinion and test the new ideas.

Oh, just remembered: try Grim Lavamancer in Dreadstill, really strong!! :wink:

I've been playing with Lavamancer in my list for the last 2 months... SUCH a house against everything ever.

Hello

I never postet before in this forum so don´t be angry when i do something wrong.

I planed to build a Nought deck with a green and white splash.

my ideas were to bring in the tarmogoyf with green and a spotremovel in form of Stop with white

here is my list:

Lands:

2 Tundra
2Tropical Islands
3 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforst
3 Mishras Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Island

Creatures

4 Dreadnoughts
3Tarmogoyf

Counter:
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Snare
3Counterbalance

Tools:
4 Brainstrom
3 Sensei´s Diving Top
3 Standstill
4Stifle
1Trickbind
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Enlightened Tutor

my questions are:

What do you think about Enlightened Tutor? Play it or better play more Standstill/Counterbalance/Top?
What do you think about the lands?
im not sure about Stifle and Trickbind is it enough or besster play 1 more Trickbind?

greetings
waseritan

@Waseritan:

I would cut the 2 Enlighted Tutors and add the 4th Tarmogoyf and the 4th Counterbalance. I would also cut a Daze to add a Spell Snare.
I also noticed that you play just 20lands. I also played 20 lands ages ago, but found out that 21 is the correct number to play in this deck.

hm ok but what do you think i can cut for land number 21?

@Waseritan

If you want to try Enlightened Tutor in the deck I would make sure you have at least 1 Engineered Explosives and 1 real bomb that is tutorable, maybe Crucible of Worlds. I'd cut 1 Dreadnought in that scenario and count on Enlightened Tutor to pull up the nought when needed. You will be walking a very fine line on card disadvantage, since Dreadstill already has that issue at times but you'll also have the Enlightened Tutor as hard counter with Counterbalance in play.

Here's how I would change your list to try to make it work:

4x Tarmogoyf
3x Phyrexian Dreadnought

4x Force of Will
2x Daze
2x Spell Snare
4x Stifle

4x Brainstorm
2x Enlightened Tutor

3x Counterbalance
2x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Standstill
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Crucible of Worlds

4x Swords to Plowshares

1x Academy Ruins
3x Mishra's Factory
3x Wasteland
3x Flooded Strand
2x Windswept Heath
3x Tundra
3x Tropical Island
3x Island
1x Plains

The list goes down to 8 counters but it has Enlightened Tutor to top deck 0,1,2 or 3 cc artifacts/enchantments with Counterbalance in play. Almost the entire game plan can be top decked by Enlightened Tutor which can get everything relevant except for Stifle. Academy Ruins is in because you have several things, like Crucible of Worlds and Engineered Explosives, that can be devastating if you can recur them.

Working on building this deck. Can't afford the Duals right now, so Explosives has been moved to the SB.


3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Trinket Mage

4x Counterbalance
2x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Standstill
1x Pithing Needle

3x Stifle
3x Trickbind
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
4x Brainstorm
2x Ponder

2x Scalding Tarn
2x Flooded Strand
12x Island
4x Mishra's Factory
3x Wasteland


Eventually, I do plan on getting Volcanic Islands and playing a more traditional Ur list, just wondering how this will work.

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Originally Posted by jamis

Working on building this deck. Can't afford the Duals right now, so Explosives has been moved to the SB.


3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Trinket Mage

4x Counterbalance
2x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Standstill
1x Pithing Needle

3x Stifle
3x Trickbind
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
4x Brainstorm
2x Ponder

2x Scalding Tarn
2x Flooded Strand
12x Island
4x Mishra's Factory
3x Wasteland


Eventually, I do plan on getting Volcanic Islands and playing a more traditional Ur list, just wondering how this will work.

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Play a Mountain, 4x Scalding Tarn and 2x Engineered Explosives main deck and Firespout in the sideboard. The Engineered Explosives are a sweeper for the deck to handle tokens, as well as being the 2cc removal. You'll still have 15 blue sources if you change an Island to a Mountain. The Pithing Needle is also probably not worth it main deck unless you have a lot of CounterTop in the meta or Belcher is running amok. You could make it into the 8th counter pretty easily. The 3rd Trickbind gives you a spot for Engineered Explosives.

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Originally Posted by J.V.

Yeah, Very soon I will post a detailed explanation of my thought process and all my changes, however at the moment I am extremely busy with school work and that does come first...

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Did you give up on the deck?

I think that dreadstill is a very strong deck, but I preffer to play the deck with goyf.

Im thinking about including 1 basilisk collar in the deck, we can find it by trinket mage for equipping a goyf, some times when our opponent has a goyf we cant attack with our own goyf, but basilisk collar is a solution for this problem IMO, moreover looks good againts zoo and in some marginal situations can give us the game for example if our opponent has a lonely progenitus and we equip our phyrexian dreadnought with basilisk .

What do you think about including baslisk collar in UGR dreadstill ?

I played a small fun tournament with some friends tonight with the Ur list I posted on the previous page:
I didn't take notes, so commentary might be a lil off.

R1: Enchantress: 2-1 (1-0)
After winning a fast game 1 I lose a long G2 mainly because I can't get rid of an opposing Moat with him on 3 life. In the final game I blow EE for his Runed Halo (on Nought) and a few more enchantments and play StifleNought and win.

R2: Pikula: 2-1 (2-0)
A very hard matchup for me. I lose game-1 after having 1 dreadnought discarded and 1 StP'd. I win game 2 and 3 mainly due to fairly fast dreadnoughts with some counter backup. In g2 he vindicated my land the turn before I played StifleNought as well.

R3: Merfolk: 2-1 (3-0)
This matchup is all about fast dreadnoughts, especially pre-board. G1 I land a turn-3 nought which takes it home. In g2 I lose to the Fish Army before I can pretty much do anything. In the final game I go t2 Dreadnought with FoW, Daze and Spell Snare in hand..

R4: ANT: 2-1 (4-0)
In g1 he decides to not go off in t2 knowing I have some counters (he thoughtseized T1). I get CounterTop online and win. G2 he lands a t1 Xantid Swarm which I don't have the FoW for and goes off a turn or two after. In the final game he mulls to 5 and still has a bad hand, after a few turns he scimply scoops.

I think I got pretty lucky, but anyways, it was nice to win a few matches ^^.
I would like a 4th CB and a 3rd Top mainboard, but I'm not sure what to cut for it. I was thinking of cutting 1 of two of the following Daze/Spell Snare/Mage. I'm also considering a Pithing Needle sideboard and possibly Lightning Bolts side, which I don't currently have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiwi

I think that dreadstill is a very strong deck, but I preffer to play the deck with goyf.

Im thinking about including 1 basilisk collar in the deck, we can find it by trinket mage for equipping a goyf, some times when our opponent has a goyf we cant attack with our own goyf, but basilisk collar is a solution for this problem IMO, moreover looks good againts zoo and in some marginal situations can give us the game for example if our opponent has a lonely progenitus and we equip our phyrexian dreadnought with basilisk .

What do you think about including baslisk collar in UGR dreadstill ?

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BC is just too slow, and bad, and we don't run enough creatures. Against zoo, the lifelink will not matter because it is too slow to get out. Unless you start with it in hand, you won't see it out and equiped until turn 4-5 at the earliest. Also, I cannot imagine trinketing it above anything else we run. I would probably first trinket for a SDT or a naught even if I were in that goyf vs. goyf showdown. Besides, what would you cut for it?

If you want to win the goyf wars and have a better zoo MU just play a few Lightning Bolts/Fire&Ice. Burn will fullfill your problems while not being so narrow.

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Originally Posted by JamieW89

R1: Enchantress: 2-1 (1-0)
After winning a fast game 1 I lose a long G2 mainly because I can't get rid of an opposing Moat with him on 3 life. In the final game I blow EE for his Pithing Needle (on Nought) and a few more enchantments and play StifleNought and win.

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Wtf are you talking about? Pithing Needle on Dreadnought?!?

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Originally Posted by pippo84

Wtf are you talking about? Pithing Needle on Dreadnought?!?

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LOL. Maybe he means runed halo?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slylie

LOL. Maybe he means runed halo?

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Lol thanks, fixed ^^

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Originally Posted by J.V.

I've got to say Eddie, you're lucky none of the moderators go anywhere near the Dreadstill thread, your grammar is atrocious.

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yeah i know, but that is why i love it.

What do you guys think about splashing white for Enlightened Tutor, STP etc? or is the 2/2 a better search?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oceanus

What do you guys think about splashing white for Enlightened Tutor, STP etc? or is the 2/2 a better search?

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Enlightened Tutor is card disadvantage while Trinket Mage is card advantage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pippo84

Enlightened Tutor is card disadvantage while Trinket Mage is card advantage.

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True, I'm sure there's been a lot of testing by people whom have played the deck more than me. So I'm just bouncing around the idea as I saw it in a list. Does anyone here run Enlightened Tutor for the sake of speed? I mean, going off potentially second turn rather than fourth does seem appealing, no? and if no, why not (other than CA)? Any testing been done with a white splash?

So I can't believe Jace hasn't been brought up yet, but I am testing it now and it seems fairly promising. I am running this:

21 Lands, 4 Island, 2 Volc, 3 Factory

4 Goyf
3 Trinket Mage
1 Nought
2 Jace, the Mindsculptor

4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
3 Top
3 CB

4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
3 Daze
4 FoW

2 EE

SB-
4 Spell Pierce
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Firespout
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Krosan Grip

Jace seems theoretically pretty good. He is a lot like Sower, but doesn't die to any removal that hits Dreadnoughts or Goyfs. He is catch all against problems like Tombstalker, Elsepeth tokens, and Iona, as well as being fairly solid against Aggro. It wins games like Sower, but doesn't die to much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BKclassic

So I can't believe Jace hasn't been brought up yet, but I am testing it now and it seems fairly promising. I am running this:

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Seems like an interesting build. Missing some of the "oops I win" factor that gives Dreadstill the dread factor for opponents, but it's a solid looking list. I'm assuming the manabase is 6 fetches, 3 trops, 2 volc, 4 islands, 3 mishra's and 3 wastes? You gotta have the wastes if you're playing 3 standstill.

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Not of this World

Card type: Tribal Instant

Casting cost: 7

Card text: Counter target spell or ability that targets a permanent you control.
Not of This World costs 7 less to cast if it targets a spell or ability that targets a creature you control with power 7 or greater.

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I will be packing 4 of these in my sideboard. This counters Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Qasali Pridemage, Stingscourger, Snuff Out, Echoing Truth, Submerge, and of course Shatter, FOR 0 MANA. 0. You can handle all the cards that have been hating on Dreadnought (besides Krosan Grip) for free. For this deck most of the time you are aiming for something like Dreadnought with Force backup for Plow to take down the game, and this card facilitates a lot more of that.

This is my current version of Dreadstill.

4 Dreadnought
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
2 Trinket Mage

4 Standstill
4 Counterbalance

4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Top

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Pierce

4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland

4 Island
2 Volcanic Island
7 Blue Fetch


4 Not of this World
3 Firespout
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
1 Engineered Explosives

If you havent cut Spell Snare for Spell Pierce by now I would highly recommend it. Spell Pierce better suits this deck because it protects Dreadnought from removal and countermagic. Besides Qasali Pridemage there are few relevant cards that Spell Snare hits and Pierce doesnt, in terms of Dreadnought.

Really liked the Not of this World ideia in SB , but about Spell Pierce I'm not very convinced, It counter's StP , PtE , EE and more things but the fact that Dreadstill can't deal with creatures(tarmogoyf,qasali) make me afraid of just running one way to deal with tarmogoyfs (counters) but I will test and see how it goes on.

Still working on building this; have almost all the cards now. Here's what I'll be running until I can afford the Dual Lands.

Creatures: 7
4x Trinket Mage
3x Phyrexian Dreadnought

Instants: 19
4x Force of will
3x Daze
3x Trickbind
4x Brainstorm
3x Stifle
2x Spell Snare

Sorceries: 2
2x Ponder

Enchantment/Artifact: 11
4x Counterbalance
4x Standstill
2x Sensei's Divining top
1x Engineered Explosives

Land: 21
6x Island
2x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Flooded Strand
4x Mishra's Factory
3x Wasteland

I'm not sure if this has brought up yet, but with stronger and stronger showings for combo (the last SCG Open really had a lot of combo) which is zoo's worst enemy do you guys see Dreadstill coming back as near DTB any time soon or are all the bant decks packing QP still going to keep Mr. Nought down?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jazzykat

I'm not sure if this has brought up yet, but with stronger and stronger showings for combo (the last SCG Open really had a lot of combo) which is zoo's worst enemy do you guys see Dreadstill coming back as near DTB any time soon or are all the bant decks packing QP still going to keep Mr. Nought down?

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Actually the key to fix this is just playing Lightning Bolts in the SB.

As I have elaborated in another threads, Qasali Pridemage is by far not the problem of this deck as you have Forces, redundant Stifles, Spell Snares, in some cases Counterbalance sticks first, Dazes, etc. bla.
You have around 16 outs for a Qasali AFTER sticking a Nought to the board (4 Forces, 3 Spell Snare, 4 Daze, 5 other Stifles... yep, 16. And if you don#t count the Dazes, you still have 12 which si a fuckload).

The problem with Zoo is rather the huge amount of Turn 1 drops that can make your life harder. A 1st Turn Nacatl or Steppe Lynx can make your Standstills and Counterbalances suck in a blink of an eye since they are actually very situational cards. This is true for current metagame in general as decks as Gayfolk and Goblins play Aether Vial which is also a strong counterpart to Counterbalance.

And these 2 cards (Standstill and Counterbalance) are basically the cards that are supposed to compensate the cardisadvantage of Nought-Stifle. Zoo is basically so aggressive that it's nearly impossible for you to catch the right timing to land a Standstill or Balance. Well, except if you Force the 1st Turn drop and can land one of them, then it's quite okay I guess, but remember that Standstill just neuters the carddisadvantage and Counterbalance is blind on Turn 2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jazzykat

I'm not sure if this has brought up yet, but with stronger and stronger showings for combo (the last SCG Open really had a lot of combo) which is zoo's worst enemy do you guys see Dreadstill coming back as near DTB any time soon or are all the bant decks packing QP still going to keep Mr. Nought down?

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I'm not concerned about QP , I just worry about Merfolks and Krosan Grip , with many combos and reanimator may be Merfolks will go up if people opt to not play zoo which is bad for dreadstill, Krosan Grip is a problem cause CB are popular and that is the real problem.I would like to play Dreadstill but my meta has many Krosan Grips + Merfolks.

Current list as of 5/4/10. I've been testing lately against Thopter Gifts and been doing quite well. Steam Vents are in for Volcanic Islands and Fault Line is in for Rolling Earthquake because I don't have them yet. As for Sowers main, I like to beat my opponent with their own creatures plus gives me a 4cc for Counterbalance and Misdirection is just another FoW, it was Mind Break Trap for a little while but Mind Break Trap seemed slow and one Pithing Needle main to stop annoying abilities.

creature [8]
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage
2 Sower of Temptation

instant [20]
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
1 Misdirection

enchantment [7]
3 Counterbalance
4 Standstill

artifact [4]
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Sensei's Divining Top

land [21]
1 Academy Ruin's
1 Tropical Island
1 Flooded Strand
4 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
3 Wasteland
60 cards

Sideboard:
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Fault Line
2 Blood Moon
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Relic of Progenitus
15 cards

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Originally Posted by icy_triskelion

Current list as of 5/4/10. I've been testing lately against Thopter Gifts and been doing quite well. Steam Vents are in for Volcanic Islands and Fault Line is in for Rolling Earthquake because I don't have them yet.

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Isn't earthquake just better or is instant speed really better than not having to draw rwo red sources to use it?

Just a question:
Why do you still play Standstill? Over 50% of the actually played decks are Zoo, Merfolk, Goblins or Dredge - and you're slower. Why don't you cut it for something more useful against those decks?

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Originally Posted by dlg

Just a question:
Why do you still play Standstill? Over 50% of the actually played decks are Zoo, Merfolk, Goblins or Dredge - and you're slower. Why don't you cut it for something more useful against those decks?

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Because that number of 50% is just through-the-roof exaggerated.

Maybe it might help if I post the list I'm thinking of:

2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Dark Confidant
2 Trinket Mage

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Snuff Out
4 Daze
4 Stifle
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Trickbind


3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
(1 Oblivion Ring
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Crucible of Worlds) or 3 Standstill

3 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
2 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Island


I'm still wondering why there is no relevant white/black splash? Top together with Confidant is just great and Snuff Out also to keep the mana open. Enlightened Tutor together with Top is a Tutor - and I like the sideboard possibilities with black and white like Thoughtseize, Perish/Engineered Plague, Jötun Grunt and Swords to Plowshares

Why would anybody deny themselves the chance to play with the red cards? I don't see a way to play Dreadstill without red. My list still looks very similar to Roodmistahs (maindeck two cards different(Edit: three cards)) from the opening post and I placed second at both the GP Lyon Legacy sidevent (144 players) and Bazaar of Moxen 4 (498 players). Report is going to follow some time this week, until then just this:

Ur Dreadstill has the best sideboard in the entire format.

Also note that nearly any big success of Dreadstill has to be accounted to the Ur list.

Edit: Report is online. Link

This is a list I have been testing lately. I know it doesn't look much like dreadstill but I didn't know where else to put it.

Main Deck
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
4 Wasteland
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn

4 Dark Confidant
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Sylvan Safekeeper

4 AEther Vial
4 Stifle
3 Brainstorm
4 Trickbind
4 Force of Will
4 Daze

Sideboard
3 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Spell Pierce
4 Krosan Grip
3 Faerie Macabre

Some Card Choices:
-Aether Vial allows you to spend mana else where while allowing your opponent to tap down and allowing you to vial in a dreadnought, or you can use it to vial in a dreadnought in response to another one to keep one in play.

-Dark Confidant is a great way to generate card draw and is also a magnet for removal leaving the more vicious creatures behind also vialing him in EOT almost guarantees at least one draw.

-Tarmogoyf–Why not?

-Sylvan Safekeeper is possibly the only debatable slot main board. He used to be Mother of Ruins but through some testing seemed to just work better and is the same color as Tarmogoyf which is kind of a benefit

-Stifle and Trickbind are both great cards, but why run all eight? Well because any extras can be used to attack mana bases and it ensures you always have one with a Dreadnought.

So what do you think?

3 Brainstorm and 4 Trickbind seem wrong imo, i would at least switch those numbers. Other than that, it seems some nice cards, but idk how well they preform together..
additional safekeepers seem redundant and all.. you dont even have Jitte or sth to make them at least a bit better.. and fitting the green color is like.. a bonus or what? I would rather play SSS instead of Safekeepersl and you kinda have Stifle effects to adress Quasalis. SSS pitches to FoW also and could carry some Jitte (you lack removal of some kind).
Otherwise, nice to see you innovate.

As mentioned above the Brainstorm-Trickbind swap seems obvious.
The Aether Vial is an interesting idea. I think that standstill works better with it than Bob and that could be another change.
To abuse it you should add more creatures though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Van Phanel

Why would anybody deny themselves the chance to play with the red cards? I don't see a way to play Dreadstill without red. My list still looks very similar to Roodmistahs (maindeck two cards different(Edit: three cards)) from the opening post and I placed second at both the GP Lyon Legacy sidevent (144 players) and Bazaar of Moxen 4 (498 players). Report is going to follow some time this week, until then just this:

Ur Dreadstill has the best sideboard in the entire format.

Also note that nearly any big success of Dreadstill has to be accounted to the Ur list.

Edit: Report is online. Link

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Van Phanel

SB:
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Firespout
2 Perish

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I've not played Dreadstill for a very long time and I like the direction you have taken with your sideboard.

Could I ask what sideboarding stratergies you took against the decks you played at BoM IV.

I'm also interested in whether you have tried the double Blood Moon in the sideboard. I think its great especially against a Lands.dec heavy meta which is what we seem to have in the UK (London) at the minute.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamSpot

I've not played Dreadstill for a very long time and I like the direction you have taken with your sideboard.

Could I ask what sideboarding stratergies you took against the decks you played at BoM IV.

I'm also interested in whether you have tried the double Blood Moon in the sideboard. I think its great especially against a Lands.dec heavy meta which is what we seem to have in the UK (London) at the minute.

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I did indeed play the 2 Blood Moon for some time and they're amazing against Tempo Thresh, Lands and less so against Landstill. However Lands is already favorable thanks to CB and graveyard removal and Landstill is also pretty winnable. Perish on the other hand solves the biggest problem of the deck: The inability to deal with most threats once they're resolved. Especially Knight of the Reliquary tends to be a problem, because he needs Relic + Bolt to be killed while Perish does the job on its own while taking other green creatures with it. Against Tempo-Thresh the Blood Moons are indeed a lot stronger. If your meta is lands-heavy, feel free to play Blood Moon.

I'm sorry but I won't give out my actual sideboard plans. As I plan to still play the deck for some time, I don't want opponents to know exactly how to board against me.