One of the best things about Library is punishing decks that play Swords to Plowshares. When you are going to draw at least one card from them playing a removal spell it puts your opponent in a tough spot.
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One of the best things about Library is punishing decks that play Swords to Plowshares. When you are going to draw at least one card from them playing a removal spell it puts your opponent in a tough spot.
That synergy also works really well if you use Consuming Vapors. So tech!Quote:
Originally Posted by nitewolf9
Hey guys, I've been tinkering with this deck and I saw Pithing Needle in the sideboard, what is that used for exactly?
Mainly to stop aether vial, and in that sense mainly against merfolk. It was ok vs goblins but nothing spectacular.
The card just isn't poweful enough and I have since cut it.
So what's your current SB? And will you still write a report or don't you have enough time atm? Just curious, please don't feel offended. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by nitewolf9
What other cards have you changed from your tournament winning decklist? Any situational or metagame cards you wouldn't advise everyone to automatically play? Any staples you wouldn't ever change? Any cards you run because of your style of play but could be switched to something else? A lot of questions I know but I see a lot of options with that deck! Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by nitewolf9
I figured as much, i also came to the same conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitewolf9
Do you think E. Plague would be a better Solution to tribal?
-3 Pithing Needle
+3 Maelstrom Pulse
I am in fact playing pulse now, but cut a grip in addition to the needles to squeeze in a second darkblast. That card was insane in so many matchups.
Engineered Plague is also a very reasonable sideboard card, but just not very effective in the merfolk matchup. Maelstrom pulse is actually pretty good there however, so you might be able to squeeze some plagues in the board over the 2nd darkblast, 3rd EE, and Demise.
With Merfolk lists hardly running Stifle maindeck anymore (I believe most players have replaced it with Pierce), would Pernicious Deed be a reasonable card versus them? I mean, a Deed = 3 essentially wipes their entire board; no Vial tricks to salvage their board, no Cursecatcher baiting, etc. whereas EE can maybe cripple them, but it doesn't straight up blow them out like Deed = 3 would.
I'm surprised to see that. I'm usually running two needles in my side, and I've always been happy with them, not only they are great against vial decks, but also shut down top and sneak attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitewolf9
@AllIsDust - other cards you migh consider for your side, apart from already mentioned maelstrom pulse (wich is great btw) are Blue Elemental Blast (great with a maindeck basic island if you expect a lot of decks running blood moon) ,perish or some additional discard like inquisition of kozilek/thoughtseize.
edit: deed is indeed great against merfolk, and all stax/enchantress decks, but it's usually too slow against zoo and junk, being also vulnerable to pridemage and vindicate. I've recently decided to swap my maindeck deeds(wich I played in the slot of engineered explosives comparing to nightwolf9's list) with maelstrom pulses, having answer to Knight of the Reliquary before your opponent gets to untap with it is pretty important.
OK, since I am probably not going to remember a lot of the details anyway, I figure I should post some sort of a report now so I minimize what gets forgotten. Here goes:
Round 1 - Show and Tell/Natural Order, Win 2-0
I sit down against an opponent who wins the die roll and goes Catacombs -> Tropical Island. I'm not sure what he's playing, so I ponder into daze and stifle with a possible tarmogoyf coming down next turn. He draws and plays a noble hierarch. I snuff it out, waste his land, and have stifle mana open. He fetches and I stifle. Then I untap and play tarmogoyf. He doesn't really have much action from there on out and I wind up hymning a natural order, which helps me sideboard.
I bring in Vapors, Dispel, and Jace, taking out some of my removal and trimming a daze or two. I might have also brought in darkblast here.
Game 2 I wind up hymning him early and then countering a natural order. This game goes long with me having a ton of disruption and him playing draw, land, go a bunch of times. I eventually stick tombstalker and have a grip full of countermagic. Needless to say it gets there. I would have let Show and Tell resolve at this point as I am also holding consuming vapors.
Round 2 - Goblins, Win 2-1
I have to play against my friend John this round, which is kind of a bummer, but I owe him from that last time we played in a big tournament. Game 1 I keep and extremely loose hand with go for the throat, wasteland, fetch, Tarmogoyf, Daze, Tombstalker, and stifle on the draw. He goes Lackey, go. I don't draw a cantrip or a snuff out and am forced to fetch an underground sea. I stifle the lackey trigger and he plays port. Eventually lackey gets in there and drops wort, and I can't recover from his follow up LD.
I sideboard for goblins thustly: +3 Pithing Needle, +1 Darkblast, +1 Ghastly Demise, -2 EE, -2 Predict, -1 Daze
Game 2 I go land, go. He plays aether vial. I have the needle, but not much pressure. He keeps ticking vial up and I play a hymn and a wasteland while digging for threats. Eventually I stick a goyf, but he has a krosan grip for my needle. He plays a seige gang commander, which I stifle and then kill with a removal spell. I attack with goyf and play stalker. He can't deal with stalker before he dies, and I'm holding force of will for weirding the whole time anyway.
Game 3 I pretty much answer lacky and out tempo him with guys.
Round 3 - Goblins, Win 2-1
James Buckingham is another friend that I have to play against, and I know he is on goblins. I win the roll and open a reasonable hand with an early tarmogoyf and cantrips. I go land, go. He draws and plays mountain, lackey. I don't have the removal spell, but am holding a ponder, goyf, stifle, but no protection for goyf. I figure I can untap, draw, and ponder for snuff out. If I don't hit snuff out but hit a force I can stifle the lackey and play goyf next turn. I really didn't want to get blown out by warren weirding, although with a daze I obviously would play the goyf there. I hit snuff out on the ponder and keep a blue mana up before passing. He fetches into me which I stifle, and I think he plays a war marshal. I untap and play goyf. He pays echo and plays a wasteland, but doesn't use it as the mana is obviously more important for him here. Eventually this game gets to a point where I am able to get a protected tombstalker who goes the distance. That guy is so good in this matchup.
Same boarding as before.
Game 2 it comes down to a long battle but he is able to resolve ringleader and has plenty of black mana to remove my guys and get me with his team.
Game 3 is another long drawn out affair where I eventually have a tarmogoyf and a tombstalker to his double pile driver, warchief, ringleader, lackey board. He is at 10 life so I can't swing here as his counter attack kills me. I dig for a removal spell or a fetchland to play the second stalker in my hand, and hit a fetch. I play the stalker and swing with the other one. He crashes with his team, I am able to block one of the drivers with goyf and block the chief with the stalker to stay alive. Then I untap and win. Close game. It had gotten to the point where he needed to rip a black source and weirding to race me, as I had waste/stifled him off of black early.
Round 4 - Belcher, Win 2-1
Game 1 I have no idea he is on belcher, but have a solid hand with force of will. He starts to off and plays rite of flame, desperate ritual, which I let resolve, and then grim monolith, which I force. I didn't want him to empty the warrens on me as I didn't have the EE, so I keep him below 4 mana. Eventually he is able to get a blecher through, but has no mana to activate it. I stick a goyf and start racing with double stifle in hand. He rips a tinder wall and tries to belch me, but I stifle. He makes the same play again, and I screw up by letting the tinder wall resolve and stifling the belcher with force and daze in hand. If I had countered the wall instead and saved the last stifle I would definitely have had him. Instead he untaps the turn before I kill him, goes Esg, SSg, tap chrome mox kill you. Awk-ward.
Games 2 and 3 are a blow out in my favor.
Round 5 - Goblins, Win 2-0
This round I play against Stephen King.
Game 1 he goes fetchland, don't activate, pass. I don't have stifle but peel one off the top and play my verdant catacombs and pass. He fetches, I fetch in response and stifle. He then plays a land and passes. It gets to the point where I just play guys and race him, countering/stifling any relevant goblin and wastelanding him to keep daze live. I had a removal spell the whole game to stop any alpha strike with warchief.
Same boarding plan
Game 2 I just have all the answers and smash with tombstalkers. He had trouble playing through my disruption and I had force of will for weirding the whole game. At one point I needle gempalm incinerator, which he needed to be active in order to kill one of my stalkers.
Round 6 - Big Zoo, Lose 1-2
This match is vs kemper and was a feature match, so the coverage can be found online. In short game 1 he gets too far ahead of me too early and I can't come back in time before he burns my face. Game 2 I just run him over with hymn, wasteland, and tombstalker. Game 3 I keep a hand with 3 cantrips but miss my second land drop for something like 3 turns. I almost come back but brick off of a brainstorm when I needed a removal spell for knight of the reliquary.
Round 7 - MUD (metal worker/Wurmcoil/Helkite nonsense), win 2-0
I know my opponent is playing MUD before we sit down, and I haven't tested against it. I'm a bit nervous about the matchup but feel that I have a lot of relevant cards that are bad for him.
Game 1 he plays chalice of the void on 1 for his turn 1 on the draw, which I brainstorm in response to (the only 1 cc card in my hand). It resolves as I have EE, and also no 1 cc cards. My grip has force of will, daze, goyf, stalker, lands, ee after I untap. I play my land and stick goyf. He untaps and plays port, tangle wire. I'm fine with this. My board gets tapped down and I play wasteland on his port, and ee on 0. He gets tapped down and passes. I tap ee and both lands, then get in there with goyf and play another land. He never recovers from his tangle wire and goyf just goes all the way. Ancient tomb damage didn't help here either.
I board in Consuming Vapors, Jace, the other EE, and Krosan Grip
Game 2 he plays a turn 1 juggernaught, which I decline to force as I have a goyf in my hand. I eventually have to trade my 3/4 goyf for it and he plays lodestone golem. At some point I remove the golem with snuff out and play Tombstalker. My grip at the end of this game has 3 krosan grip, 2 consuming vapors, with 5 lands in play. I really want him to play something but he doesn't and dies to stalker.
Round 8 - Big Zoo, Win 2-1
I don't remember too much about this match other than the fact that he gets me in game 1 in a long battle. Game 2 is similar but I come out on top. Game 3 I pretty much hit his knight with consuming vapors after he plays a jitte. I have stalker and goyf in play at this time and he untaps and plays gaddock teeg and noble hierarch. He equips teeg and passes. My Vapors is rfg'd for good by teeg, but he still has to block and loses his board. He has active jitte but I play another stalker and that's all she wrote.
ID in round 9
My top 8 matches are covered online but this is what I played against:
Top 8:
Junk and Taxes, win 2-0
Top 4:
Doomsday tendrils, win 2-0
Finals:
Doomsday Shelldock Isle, win 2-1
Sorry for the lack of details but I didn't take notes. That was the general idea of how the tournament went though. Lots of tight games, with a few blowout matches. If anyone wants me to go into further detail just let me know.
Sounds like Consuming Vapors gets there.
I'm disappointed you didn't play against more Countertop! Team America has decent game against that as well.
Never thought I'd see Consuming Vapors. I would have played Edict instead. But Darkblast is definitely solid.
Guess I'm late to the party, but congrats. Hope to see you take it down again this weekend.
Just wanted to say a big 'thank you!' to Dan for doing so much for this deck: developing the list, piloting it to a recent victory, and taking the time to answer questions about it! I know you're busy but I just hope you realize we are all very grateful for your help.
One more question: are there any general guidelines you could suggest for sideboarding? For example, what cards do you tend to side out in the popular matchups like zoo, counterbalance, etc.
I also think it may be time for the primer to be rewritten since all recent successful lists have dropped sinkhole in favor of hymn and upped the removal count, among other small changes.
Unfortunately I won't be in NJ this weekend :(. I'll have to give someone else a chance this time.
I'll try to get a sideboarding strategy guide down if people want it, but I'm currently revamping the whole board.
I'm considering Spell Pierce and Reanimate mainly, but throwing a few other ideas around as well.
Consuming Vapors is one of those extremely swingy cards that can straight up win a game by itself, or sit in your hand looking stupid. Edict could be a fine replacement, and with pulses going in the board you might actually have enough removal post board vs zoo where vapors isn't as necessary. I need to do a lot of testing.
I've been a big spell pierce fan for a while now. The fact that people are actually starting to win with combo decks now makes it seem even better.
Reanimate was only really great when people were playing reanimator and lots of tarmogoyfs. I don't really think it's too good right now, or necessary.
Darkblast is the stones and has been for a while.
Hey,a question to Nitewolf9,u dont miss spell snare??? i cant imagine a tempo deck doesnt playing at least 3 spell snares!! stops Goyfs,confidant,counterbalance,hym to tourach,qasali pridmage,sylvan libriary,stoneforge mystic,jitte,exhume,go 4 the throat,counterspell,standstill,lord of atlantis,etc,etc,etc. is a 1 cmc hard counter.
I've tested both this and NLT. I can say that pierce/snare are suboptimal because they are conditional counters. Snare used to be the stone cold nuts due to all the bombs being centered at 2cc. However, now you have most of the big bombs at 3cc and above, ie KOTR, GSZ, Show and Tell, RWM, Natural order, Jace etc. Daze with wastes + stifle appear to be the best strategy. The list is already very tight, I can't see how you'd fit pierce and snare in the MD. Also, I love nitewolf's list. I've made a small change though, because I dislike predict. I want to be balls to the wall disruption and aggro. I find it very hard to set up predict. I've gone - 2 Predict for 1 more Sylvan and 1 more Hymm. Both are the stone cold nuts against decks predict is good against (Control/Midrange) and are unconditionally good. Cheers.
This pretty much sums up the snare argument for me. The card is too conditional, and just OK when it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
I can see how you might not like the predicts, and your chanes are intriguing. They have been good for me as a lot of the time they enable multiple stalkers early and they aren't particularly hard to set up. Plus, when you pass while holding stifle up after making your second land drop, assuming you pondered on turn 1 or brainstormed for some reason (probably looking for hymn), it gives you a way to pull ahead if they don't drop a fetch.
I have cut the 4th Daze for the 4th Hymn, but I will keep your changes in mind. It might be good to have an extra library with decks like junk running around, as that card is very, very bad for them. I probably wouldn't play 2 if Zoo were still public enemy number 1, but isn't the case anymore.