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Oh and by the way: I want to say thanks to hollywood for creating such a cool deck. It is both cheap and effective. I have been having the greatest time kicking the ass of all my magic-friends, using this deck.
It seems so simple, and yet so effective. This deck just shows cardadvantage comes in many forms.
So once more: thank you The Gate (and ofcourse hollywood for creating it) for giving me a great time playing magic.
You're welcome. I appreciate that.
However, much work has yet to be done on this archetype. We're living in an unpredictable meta, and it really comes down to match-ups and the sideboard. The deck wasn't originally intended on being a "budget" option, but just something very simplistic at its basic fundamental core. Hopefully, the strategy works again this weekend.
Best of luck! As an avid Eva fan, I am always rooting for the black decks to do well!
Godspeed, man. We wish you luck.
I feel like you want at least one more Arena in the board considering how amazingly it does against control. One thing I will note is I made the same mistake that you're about to make in your Sb....no relevant GY removal. I felt like I hadn't used my Crypts in ages and just happened to get matched against Ichorid for the first time in probably a year. You'll also randomly run into the kid playing revamped Reanimator or something. Leyline of the Void is still fairly solid as is Planar Void.
Definitely roll with Duress I like it a lot more then the changes you suggested.
I completely scrubbed, going 0-3, then dropping.
decklist
3 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
4 Bitterblossom
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Go for the Throat
3 Innocent Blood
4 Dark Ritual
18 Swamp
SB
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pithing Needle
3 Perish
3 Infest
3 Tormo'ds Crypt
lost aginst zoo twice, then against mighty quinn. Rituals were just godawful, the deck was insanely inconsistent, after blowing my hand to stick a threat it was usually dealt with and I was left it an empty hand/manascrew/irelevant nighthawk. And about manabase inconsistencies was even more dissapointing.. I know that I didn't run Phyrexian arenas, but I don't think it would have had a huge difference or something. So I don't know about you guys, I don't like that you all blindly believe what hollywood says, I did this just for the sake of testing rituals, and they suck. You are accelerating to actually nothing and eventually will be played out because of insane card disadvantage. And all these suggestions to not run duress and stuff is just even more funny. I just don't know Hollywood why you are destroying your own insanely good creation..
and inb4 i'm a bad player, I used to do pretty well in every local i've played with The Gate.
I will pretty much abandon Wastelands in TheGate now too.
Let me give you some information how i come to this decision:
-Wasteland does not produce [B], which is a bummer if you can't play Hymn to Tourach on Turn2 or Gatekeeper on Turn3
-TheGate relies on dropping a mana every turn to smoothly play out. If you waste an opponents land, chances are you can't get up to 4 Mana for Persecutor fast enough and sometimes even have trouble to be at 3 mana on turn 3.
-TheGate does not get any advantage from wasting an opponents Land. It is no tempo Deck and therefore Wasteland stays synchron, meaning "i loose a land, and you loose a land", while other decks can abuse Aether Vial or Daze or Force of Will or just play on a manadenial plan with Stifle n stuff ( i think you get the idea - other decks have more to offer than just Wasteland solely). Even though you can cut your opponent of a color, lets face it - he will fetch a turn or 2 later and then have his color again, we can not keep a mana or denial plan up here.
-I find my self often to get wasted a wasteland just to cut me off my third or fourth mana or to just randomly pump up their knight of the Reliquary.
By the way - Sensei's Divining Top is so amazing in my opinion, i will keep this in the list. Rituals by the way, will still not be going into my build, maybe they will get thrown off my sideboard again, too.
@"Hollywood what the hell are you doing"-discussion:
Let's not forget that he seems to be MAINLY facing goblins, at least that is what he keeps telling about. He seems to try to make it a favourable matchup for the sake of his meta, so y well - it's obvious that that won't work for anyone :)
I personally will stay with a variation on the classic build....
Here is what seems to me as an option for the next tournament:
4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
3 Bitterblossom
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Duress
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Innocent Blood
2 Go for the Throat
3 Deathmark
19 Swamp
SB:
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Extirpate
3 Engineered Plague
As you can see, i replaced 4 Wastelands with 2 Swamps and 2 Deathmark, and 1 Innocent Blood with another Deathmark.
If you're going to run Dark Ritual, you're going to need to adjust your deck accordingly to make up for the speed early in the game with Phyrexian Arena. It is far too good to pass up. Drawing an additional card each turn at the cost of one life is incredibly good, so I am not sure why those are missing from your list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Augustas
I've dropped Go for the Throat from my list, for the aforementioned reasons in the post earlier on.
You run no Umezawa's Jitte, so it's no wonder you got smashed by Zoo.
Infest is completely inferior to Engineered Plague against Tribal match-ups, as that would appear to be the only reason it was included in your board. Plague sticks, Infest doesn't.
The patchwork sideboard looks too inconsistent with cards that are more situational than helpful. (Mindbreak Trap over Thorn of Amethyst, really?) How the hell are you beating White Stax and Enchantress with no Dystopia, Disk, or Null Rod?
Perish is a win-more card that does nothing spot-removal already can't already do, and there is no reason to press the issue. If you're aiming to hit Elves, we have a set of Plagues for that already.
I apologize in advance, but your variation is completely devoid of the proposed changes we've all discussed here when running Dark Ritual. You left out the two most important cards - Engineered Plague and Phyrexian Arena - and turned it into a Suicide deck in the process. The only reason we're trying Ritual...is for those cards to begin with. Your list is far from what we've been purposely testing Ritual with, which is to say the aforementioned. Your list is missing the best cards from this archetype (Jitte, Arena, Plague) and to be honest you took a bad, personalized list to that event and tried burning my ideology in the process, when you didn't even bother including any of the cards we've been talking about. You're not even running Dystopia, which is one of the best cards in the entire deck.
Sorry you had a bad day, but your main-deck and sideboard look light years behind what I (and I'm sure others) are looking to try in the near future. In essence, you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, and it just isn't working out for you. You even posted a 58-card list, so I'm sure I can't take what you're saying (or trying) too seriously.
First of all, I wrote down my decklist from my memory, and the missing two cards are indeed Umezawa's Jittes, which no wonder were usless because all four games against them I was on manascrew. And you talk like they don't play Quasali + Librabry to tutor them..
I indeed tested your decklist, with and without Phyrexian Arenas (the older one lol). The "big change" you've made was just removing some cards for Dark Rituals and adding Phyrexian Arenas, which are not so awesome as you might think. Sure, it's cool early game, but there's only two copies of it, and when Confidant becomes online, you want to start throwing stuff at your opponent and Arena just sits there doing nothing.
By the way, you posted your *new* decklist the night before my tournament, I actually didn't see it and couldn't see it. And imo it's just godawful. We are talking about CA, yet we don't play Hymn to Tourach? And Hollywood, remember that time when you said Phyrexian Crusader is just amazing, you even changed the picture in the primer, and then you just posted one line about him - "Crusader didn't make it" and suddenly everyone forgot him and the hype YOU made about him. This was just hilarious man.
I can't fully express myself well because english is not my first language, but I believe that this forum is not only just asslickers like half of the posters above and can put up a good posting fight, but propably even they don't see the point to post anything at this thread, because they will be hosed by all-knowing Hollywood.
I've said everything I wanted here, wish you best luck with this awesome everyday-changing decklists, and what more - to start respect each other's opinions and card choices.
This is exactly the reason why I previously abandoned this archetype, due in large part to the ignorance of inexperienced posters making bold attempts to try and white-wash their own poor play and suboptimal card choices and then turn around and put their blame on someone else, when it's their own damn fault they scrubbed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Augustas
Kudos to you, guy.
At any rate, I am far from all-knowing. I do, however, know what the hell I'm doing with this deck as I'm quite sure I've placed in more high-profile events with it than you have, which means one of two things:
1.) You cannot play the deck correctly or correlate a sideboard strategy to go along with it.
2.) You play in a very linear style and don't make any attempt to try and better the deck to suit your meta. (This is evident by your 0-3 performance, which you gave no details what so ever as to what ended up happening exclusively in those match-ups aside from useless information like, "I got crushed by Zoo." Not very helpful.)
I know exactly how this deck plays and rest assured I've goldfished and played more games with it than any other deck I've played in my entire life. I know each line of play, every option, every feasible action in common circumstances, and every poor and strong match-up the archetype brings to the table. I apologize if I've put hard work trying to revitalize this, because to be honest this deck was worse the way it was before I made changes to compensate for the reemergence of Goblins and other Vial-based Aggro decks. You will never place in a large event in Legacy today - with this deck - if you opt not to run Engineered Plague. And when an opponent decides to Port your land with a Vial out and keep you off three mana to cast...Infest...you will already be under siege by at least two or three creatures that will subsequently roll you over.
This is why I personally feel Dark Ritual is another fine asset to an archetype clearly lacking the capability of matching forces with decks capable of plowing you over in a hurry.
You're not the first person to verbally come out and lash me for your own ineptidude in this forum. Yet, for some reason whenever I played this deck, I'd always do well with it in extremely diverse metas, whereas other folks (much like yourself) tank and don't strategize or make correct line of plays only to be sitting in the" 0-3-Drop" bracket. The Gate is one of the most meta-dependent decks there is in Legacy. Simply playing it in the wrong meta can be a terrible choice, whereas the complete inverse is true when playing it in the right meta suited for it where it can completely dominate.
Phyrexian Crusader is still a decent creature, but it doesn't deserve a spot in this deck. I was wrong about that, and I made that publicly known. This archetype is in a state of flux, as people are teetering between Wasteland and Ritual, including other potential changes. You cannot come out and ignorantly bash the deck with fruitless information, sideboard strategy, etc., because in case you do not realize this we're all here trying to make this deck better equipped to win in today's Legacy scene. You took a slice of fail and put it under a magnifying glass without telling us what the hell is wrong with it.
But unlike other folks, I'll always tell you bluntly and flat-out what you did wrong and what you can do to improve your match-ups. A lot of people in the past here have just ignored what changes major contributors have made, went with their gut, failed, and then turned around and turned the tables on those people who made the effort to try and make the deck better.
The Gate is a deck that can be consistent in the hands of a competent pilot. I am willing to bet you never once thought of the percentages your specific build required mulligans on the play or draw in specific match-ups with a well thought-out sideboard plan - tested, tried, and true. Instead, I am willing to concede you threw a list together you thought might work best in your meta and failed with it, only to berate my idea that perhaps there is a better path this deck can take, except the way to take it there was much different than your idea.
Any great Legacy player will remind you that two-thirds of your match-ups will be played with your sideboard. Most people focus far too much on the main deck that they completely resign themselves to a mediocre sideboard capable of blowing them easy wins in the process. Your 3-3-3-3-3 sideboard looks well-rounded on paper but turned out to be a complete disaster in the process. Do you have any idea how huge adding Arena is? You're not only giving yourself the chance to better draw into boarded in material, you're decreasing your aggressiveness as it pertains to your mulligan strategy by including it and drawing it. Backing that card up with discard and casting it is utterly ridiculous and the fact you left it out speaks volumes on the fact that you either didn't think it was good enough or just couldn't find any in time.
It's no one's fault but your own. Live with it.
I trust Hollywood's advice because he puts in fuckloads of testing, whereas I cannot. I"m skeptical, still skeptical on Rit, but when he says something I'm going to listen. I had problems with Crusader too; I'd get them to 6/8 poison counters and then they answer him, somehow, or stall him long enough to plant someone down to start fogging. He worked well maybe once; all my other games he blew. Seriously man, you screwed up, take the blame and don't start slinging shit.
As a side note, I am getting my ass handed to me by random decks online sometimes, simply due to how metagamed it is. I accept it, but it can still be frustrating.
Also, I thought the Star City 5k was today? Didn't you compete, Hollywood?
Legacy is on sunday. I was watching scglive today and they had T2 coverage going, man what a dull format..Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
The SCG 10k's are always Standard on Saturday and Legacy on Sunday (5k apiece).
At the Open. Ready to rock.
Yesterday I went to a small tourney (we were 14) with the last list Hollywood posted; except I replaced 2 Engineered Plagues with 2 Go for the Throat, for metagame reasons.
I faced 2 Burns (1 win, 1 draw), a Zoo (win), and a 4-Color CounterTop (lose).
I'm really satisfied with Dark Ritual and Phyrexian Arena, the only card I missed was Hymn to Tourach. Anyways, the deck worked very good for me.
PS: good luck today, Hollywood.
I attended a 26 man tournament today with the list i posted in my last post, but with a different sideboard
Went 2-2
Lost 0-2 versus SpiralTideOfInfiniteManaAndThenPlayFreakingBlueZenithFor70+Mana (Its Spiral Tide that finishes with the Blue Zenith)
Won 2-1 versus Goblins (Inquisition of Kozilek and Disfigure fixed this mu for me along with jitte)
Won 2-0 versus TES (i think he was somewhat inexperienced)
Lost 1-2 versus .... something i can't remember at the moment, will edit it in as soon as i remember
I try to post more.... maybe tomorrow :) I am really sleepy at the moment
I know a lot of people expected and hoped I'd do well with this deck today, but I honestly felt disinterested when playing it. I ended up 0-2 then drop as I didn't want to beat a dead horse with a stick. I don't even think the original version of this deck would have done well aside from the changes I put up, as I lost to Deadguy Round One after Ritualing into Duress, Dark Confidant and not seeing a single land through ten cards. Game two was a disaster as I mulled and got blown out from ensuing Goyf, Knight, and discard effects - in addition to a Bob of his own. Bad beat first game cost me big time.
Round two was against Forgemaster, which I lost 1-2. Game three - in yet another bad beat - had me sitting on a single Swamp to start the game, with several discard effects. I Therapied away a Metalworker on the play, and saw him sitting on two Welders and a Lodestone Golem in hand with no red mana. He top-decks the Furnace and drops Worker. I pay the price on the pseudo-gamble and he winds up welding Worker back into play with then drops two Lodestone Golems. (He drew the second one after the Furnace. Outstanding.) Of course, I yet again draw no land.
The Bottom Line: The deck, while not bad, was ill-suited to deal with such a diverse meta. The changes we made were decent, but in the end it just wasn't worth the effort. I would recommend a splash if anything, but this was certainly my swan-song with the deck as I had to be the guinea pig and at least try to see if it was all worthwhile. It left a really bad taste in my mouth and in the end, The Gate in my eyes proved to be an excellent meta decision yet I wouldn't recommend playing it at a large event such as SCG's Open Series. It is far too risky and Legacy right now is in a large state of flux. Until it all settles down, I wouldn't play it again.
And that's the bottomline..cause holly said so! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
I just can't imagine playing a mono deck when there is very little downside to playing multiple colors. No one plays Stifle. Wasteland is played, but is relatively easy to play around/deal with. When you splash, you get real cards like Swords, Goyf, Stoneforge Mystic, Vindicate, Grip, etc... You don't have to play bad cards like Persecutor and get to play good cards like Aether Vial because now your creatures and spells are on a better curve.
I just don't see what advantage this deck could possibly have over a more proven deck like X and Taxes or Deadguy.
Both decks that made the finals in D.C. ran it. It was pretty much THE deciding factor in all three games of the match. I didn't get a chance to watch much except the finals, but the announcers were saying that Stifle was flexing its muscles all over the place all day long.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpT