Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Good job, Just Me, congrats on the finish.
I have been on a bit of a MUD hiatus right now, as I've been noodling around with other decks.
I've used the lame excuse of "not being able to afford" Cavern of Souls, but with rotation just around the corner, it seems like a great opportunity to pick up a set. I have been playing the Chalice build for a long time, and I never liked having dead draws mid-game during initial testing. However I think its time that I consider the Chalice-on-one Cavern-on-Goblins plan.
A minor lament: Baleful Strix and Shardless Agent are artifacts, which get around the Lodestone tax. Lodestone does complicate cascade, but Strix is such an annoying wall for the deck it seems.
Historically, I've had a really hard time with most UWx variants. Elves hasn't been hugely out of my favor, and I have not tested against Omni-Show. Delver is a coin flip, and we outclass most mid-range decks.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alex Holland
i already run 4 main always since i play stompy.
my arch enemies:
Goblins/elves
show and tell
pox (hymn to tourach! land destruction!)
Against elves/goblins its just a race. Dropping a wurm or germ wirh lifelink wins u that race. As does all is dust x2 main. Taking out vials with revokers is priceless. Someone knows what i should name against elves? Im really inexperienced against those green dudes.
What really annoys me is the incredible amount of counter decks with delver in them. Thank god we have cavern nowadays but its still a race to beat them.
Dredge and reanimate is also hard, but i have a very anti gy sideboard.
I play the stompy version with Godo.
The decks I found out the thougher are the ones which attack the hand and the mana base, so pox deck are quite a nightmare.
Maverick and other utility decks are bad news too, because they have main deck artifact hate, cheap removals and a mana curve that can play through a chalice@1.
Goblin is almost non existent in my LGS, but I found elves and show&tell decks quite winnable, so as for the others combo deck.
Against elves the first card you have to name with revoker is Wirewood Symbiote since it gives them extra activation of shaman (or other mana elves) but most importantly let them re-play elvish visionary or an untapped heritage druid, which is the second card you should name. Note that the symbiote enable some combat tricks for negating lifelink from batterskull or wurmcoil.
Remeber that chalice@1 shuts down the most of their deck but they still can Natural Order for craterhoof beheemot or progenitus (if they run it in side), so keep an eye at your life total even if you are highand try to land some resistor like golem. Obviously chalice@1 and @4 shuts their deck.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kingtk3
I play the stompy version with Godo.
The decks I found out the thougher are the ones which attack the hand and the mana base, so pox deck are quite a nightmare.
Maverick and other utility decks are bad news too, because they have main deck artifact hate, cheap removals and a mana curve that can play through a chalice@1.
Goblin is almost non existent in my LGS, but I found elves and show&tell decks quite winnable, so as for the others combo deck.
Against elves the first card you have to name with revoker is
Wirewood Symbiote since it gives them extra activation of shaman (or other mana elves) but most importantly let them re-play elvish visionary or an untapped heritage druid, which is the second card you should name. Note that the symbiote enable some combat tricks for negating lifelink from batterskull or wurmcoil.
Remeber that chalice@1 shuts down the most of their deck but they still can Natural Order for craterhoof beheemot or progenitus (if they run it in side), so keep an eye at your life total even if you are highand try to land some resistor like golem. Obviously chalice@1 and @4 shuts their deck.
I tried godo before and it was fun. But nowadays id rather drop a karn or all is dust for one extra mana.
I played elves and honestly i didnt have a clue what to name with revoker. Guess experience is tech. Goblins is easier to understand; name vial, gogogo drop worker quick. Kinda fun matchup to play, mostly the starting player has the biggest change to win i think.
I play 4 revoker 4 lodestone 4 chalice main as disruption.
So my sideboard is kinda specialised. Mostly anti graveyard with Crypts, faeries > against kor, dredge, reanimate, Goyf etc. Altough i dont a use the faerie macabres often
My best sb card however is ratchet bomb. I use it all the time to get rid of delver, goyf, pyromancer, tokens, even against a liliana lock etc. I think mud has a lot of different options for its sideboard. Any nice sugestions to replace the f. macabres? Already have 2 crucible sideboarded.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kingofethanol
Good job, Just Me, congrats on the finish.
I have been on a bit of a MUD hiatus right now, as I've been noodling around with other decks.
I've used the lame excuse of "not being able to afford" Cavern of Souls, but with rotation just around the corner, it seems like a great opportunity to pick up a set. I have been playing the Chalice build for a long time, and I never liked having dead draws mid-game during initial testing. However I think its time that I consider the Chalice-on-one Cavern-on-Goblins plan.
A minor lament: Baleful Strix and Shardless Agent are artifacts, which get around the Lodestone tax. Lodestone does complicate cascade, but Strix is such an annoying wall for the deck it seems.
Historically, I've had a really hard time with most UWx variants. Elves hasn't been hugely out of my favor, and I have not tested against Omni-Show. Delver is a coin flip, and we outclass most mid-range decks.
Thanks. I've been toying with some draw-cards to fix the mid-late game with better draws (well, just more cards really). Mind's Eye, Dreamstone Hedron, these are not quite good enough. Razormane Masticore has possibilities, it gets the Welder going faster and provides removal for stuff like Baleful Strix. I will test 3 Faithless Looting to see if that works for me. After all, it turns dead cards into better ones, opens the GY for welder abuse. The downside is the non-bo with Metalworker. I really don't weant to many non-artifacts.
As to the minor lament, Baleful Strix can be welded out if they have another artifact in the GY (and the aforementioned Razormane Masticore also helps, or even just good old Masticore himself).
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
I've been having success with 8 moon mud (8mm) due to the many greedy manabases in legacy. Here is my list:
MD
4 Metalworker
4 Chalice
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Forgemaster
2 Wurmcoil
1 Sundering Titan
4 Grim Monolith
3 Lotus Petal
2 Mox Diamond
2 Mox Opal
3 Mountain
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
Sb
2 Wurmcoil
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Platinum Empiron
3 Trinisphere
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Revoker
I know most purists think that moons are not great in MUD. But after playing with them as a 3 off, I've been getting as many wins of a Moon as with robots. So I decided to build a moon list. Which basically ditches 2-3 of the highest cc robots, some chaff artifacts (staff, key etc) and welders for the full 8 moons.
I've been very pleased with the results. Under a moon, high cc robots are hard to cast, so I play the bare minimum for Forgemaster to abuse. I quite like the effect of ditching all these high cc robots because I don't get screwed as often with multiple high cc robots in hand when my Metalworker is answered or if I all in with Grim Monolith only to have my threat answered.
Moons are similar to robots because they win games. But unlike robots, moons are easy to cast and don't depend on grim or Metalworker. Robots are also weak to Stp and Removal while an early moon is Gg.
What I like about this build over traditional dragon stompy is that it has raw power. Mud is a powerful plan with win the game bombs like Wurmcoil and Sundering Titan. Against mono decks like elves, merfolk or goblins, I can board out my moons for robots and stuff like Revoker and Ratchet Bomb, going back to the pure power mud game plan. Dragon stompy can't do that because the threats in red are terrible.
My 2 cents, I've been loving people crying over moon when it lands.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ivanpei
I've been having success with 8 moon mud (8mm) due to the many greedy manabases in legacy. Here is my list:
MD
4 Metalworker
4 Chalice
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Forgemaster
2 Wurmcoil
1 Sundering Titan
4 Grim Monolith
3 Lotus Petal
2 Mox Diamond
2 Mox Opal
3 Mountain
4 Darksteel Forge
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
Sb
2 Wurmcoil
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Platinum Empiron
3 Trinisphere
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Revoker
I think you meant Darksteel Citadel.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sea R Hill
I think you meant Darksteel Citadel.
Yes you are right, cheers!
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Been testing something different recently. Now before you just pass it off as crazy, I think its something worth exploring. Upheaval. Upheaval is a stupid card, and i wanted to test around with it. After a week of testing, I thought I'd share my thoughts.
It wins games when you are ahead. You float mana, upheaval, recast all your things and stay further ahead.
It wins games when you are behind. You upheaval, cast a trinisphere, and suddenly you aren't behind anymore.
Upheaval and Trinisphere or Lodestone Golem is very rarely anything BUT gg. Even without a Trinisphere to ensure the victory, you are very likely to have enough ramp to replay your board either the turn you cast upheaval or the turn after while your opponent looks in awe at the awesome play you just made.
But the most important part, no one expects it, no one plays around it, no one knows how to recover or sideboard after it, and people look shocked and amazed when they realised what you have done.
Anyway, here is my current list.
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Island
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Mox Opal
4 Mox Diamond
2 Basalt Monolith
4 Grim Monolith
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Lightning Greaves
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Kuldotha Forgemaster
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Metalworker
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Staff of Domination
2 Voltaic Key
1 Karn Liberated
3 Upheaval
3 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Duplicant
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Steel Hellkite
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Pyroclasm
SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
It still needs work, the sideboard isn't perfect, but I am going to keep working on it. I'd love some feedback/input.
Pyroclasm are for fast agro decks that can dump their hand after an upheaval, as well as an out to Teeg. Chalice of the Void is for any deck that plays lots of 1 cmc/ 0 cmc spells. Crucible is for the Loam matchup. Wurmcoil is just there because it is. Duplicant is for Show and Tell.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Upheaval's double blue is the primary problem. You can't get it reliably with that manabase.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Hello MUD players, how often (percentagely speaking) you have a first turn Chalice for one?
Thanks
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
paeng4983
Hello MUD players, how often (percentagely speaking) you have a first turn Chalice for one?
Thanks
...The same as any 4 of in any deck...
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thefreakaccident
...The same as any 4 of in any deck...
Don't you need two mana on turn one to play it? :)
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SirTylerGalt
Don't you need two mana on turn one to play it? :)
Why he wants to know?
Plus t1>>>> mulligan to it if u want?
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alex Holland
Why he wants to know?
Plus t1>>>> mulligan to it if u want?
I have no idea why he wants to know that. But it's an interesting thought experiment nonetheless.
To get a T1 Chalice, you need:
- Chalice (4 / 60 )
- Sol land (8 / 60) or Land + Mox Diamond if you play that
I suck at probabilities, so I'll let you guys compute that, including mulligans :)
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SirTylerGalt
I have no idea why he wants to know that. But it's an interesting thought experiment nonetheless.
To get a T1 Chalice, you need:
- Chalice (4 / 60 )
- Sol land (8 / 60) or Land + Mox Diamond if you play that
I suck at probabilities, so I'll let you guys compute that, including mulligans :)
With Mox Diamond, you technically need 2 Lands + Mox Diamond...
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
The % to have AT LEAST one Chalice of the void and one City of Traitors OR one Ancient Tomb is 26,1%
Source --> http://deckstats.net/
This means that 1 game out of 4 you'll get it t1 on the play
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Double blue has never been a problem with 4 diamonds, you don't need it till turn 3/4 at the earliest.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barsoom
So after 1 mulligan youll be at around 50% right?
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Against certain decks, I wouldn't mull to Chalice.
If you're playing against Storm-based combo, Revoker on LED is as as good as Chalice on one on turn one.
@paeng: what are you worried about? Are you playing or playing against MUD?
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HansonWK
Double blue has never been a problem with 4 diamonds, you don't need it till turn 3/4 at the earliest.
What about Saprazzan Skerry and/or Coalition Relic?
