We have had that discussion here already. The card is simply too conditional.
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We have had that discussion here already. The card is simply too conditional.
Hey folks,
Long time Pox player here. I'm generally busy during the academic quarter, but I find some free time during the summers to get back into Magic and make a yearly revision to my list. I've been messing around with cards and testing on Cockatrice. I think things are looking pretty good at this point, but I'd love some outside suggestions.
Here's the list:
14 Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Dakmor Salvage
4 Dark Ritual
3 Pox
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Nether Spirit
4 Bloodghast
4 The Rack
2 Cursed Scroll
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 4 Engineered Plague
SB: 4 Extirpate
SB: 2 Null Rod
SB: 2 Sphere of Resistance
Suggestions? Any apparent weakspots? Let me know if card choices need justifications. The main one that sticks out is likely the 3x Pox. I won't lie, that's partly there because I love the flavor of Pox and can't get myself to drop it. Though I wouldn't mind taking it down to 1-2 if someone can think of a much better replacement.
In addition, I simply can't afford 4x Wastelands. If I could I'd also pick up 4x Sinkhole and go to a more tradition LD list. But for the time being (or until Wizards reprints Wasteland!), I'm with Rack pox.
Take care,
Draugr
You have fifteen win conditions, which is perhaps more than optimal when playing control. The rack is good only occasionally. I would cut to two and add two sensei 's divining top.
Also consider replace dark ritual with swamps. You are quite short of lands.
Please don't use the phrase "I can't afford" in this thread. Just say you're building Rack Pox. You do need more lands as Hardcore has stated. With 7 Pox FX, land will be in very short supply without Crucible of Worlds. Last I checked, Sinkholes cost less than Liliana ( I don't buy Mint oldies). They could be replaced with Wrench Mind for more hand killing goodness.Quote:
Originally Posted by draugr
I'd also recommend Cabal Pit in place of Wasteland for Rack builds since Rack Pox usually has very poor defense and -2/-2 targetting key creatures can help a lot. Nailing blockers with a Cabal Pit after your Bloodghast suicided into one of them is a goofy play too. :laugh:
Potentially getting back into magic after (what, 1 year drought?). How does Loam pox fare these days?
Me and 2 other Pox players at my local meta had a discussion on it and it's reflected here as well. Not worth the splash. Not only does it spend more time durdling (dredging then doing nothing), being weaker to opposing wastelands and also 'saving mana' for things like Abrupt Decay, we've found it just doesn't do enough to warrant the dual lands and GY overusage. Deny the yard and you deny like 33% of the deck. Mono-B Pox is practically immune to GY hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazingxkcd
I suppose if your meta is slow enough to get to turn 10 consistently I'd go try out Loam Pox again.
Alrighty, thanks for the quick responses. I'll take a jab with pox on cockatrice or something.
all i saw was you disagreeing with peopleQuote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Someone could help me with my list?
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Barren Moor
1 Maze of Ith
1 Swamp
1 Marsh Flats
1 Cabal Pit
1 Nomad Stadium
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Nether Spirit
4 Mox Diamond
2 Crucible of the Worlds
2 The Rack
4 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
3 Vindicate
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sinkhole
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Liliana of the Veil
-1 IB for a third StP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
-1 Crucible for 4th Liliana. You rarely want to have a second Crucible, but the 4th Lilana is always helpfull.
-1 Maze or Nomad Stadium for Karakas. It gives you your fifth/ sixth white source. Also try Flagstones of Trokair, it will replace itself, very handy. I'm not dold on the Nomad Stadium, but who knows.
I remember posting a Bw list earlier here, either way search the net... There are some who did well with the white splash.
Just my two cents
-2 Swords to Plowshares, +1 Vindicate, +1 Liliana of the Veil. Don't give them health.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
-2 The Rack, +2 Cursed Scroll. Sinkhole and the Rack don't work. Dis-synergy = bad.
I'd rather run 24 land. I'm hateful of Mox Diamond. It's a terrible topdeck. Why is Dark Ritual better? Cursed Scroll, Mishra's Factory, any other permanent that can be fed mana. You don't want cards that become bad top decks. The 2nd Crucible is ok. Lots of decks now pack maindeck hate for artifacts. True, Dark rit can be bad if you have no mana feeding permanents in play, but you can't do anything with Diamond without land in hand.
Or if your meta is slow enough, you won't need Dark ritual. Instead, -4 Mox Diamond, +2 Swamp, +1 Syphon Life, +1 Ensnaring Bridge.
I'm also not sure about Nomad Stadium. Syphon Life + Crucible = better.
Thank you, guys.
My field is a bit more agile, so I thought about using mox.
I'll try to use this list:
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Maze of Ith
3 Swamp
3 Marsh Flats
1 Cabal Pit
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Nether Spirit
2 Crucible of the Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Dark Ritual
3 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
4 Vindicate
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sinkhole
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Liliana of the Veil
I like this list. It's unable to run big Pox due to splash but it seems to cover all bases. Sideboard? And are you comfortable with only 6 threats? [I'm not but mileage may vary]Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
@ Bruno: nice list, but I would still drop the second Crucible (sorry Omni :smile:) Unless you are sure you will be able to go for a Crucible/ Waste Quarter-lock (I'm assuming the Quarter/ Waste split is deliberate), it's not worth the slot. So basically is your meta slow enough? If you're going into the late game you will find it either way. Right now I'm playing one Crucible in my own MBP, but next to three SDT so i've ways to dig for it.
Like Omni I would consider a 7th and if possible an 8th threat. Six just doesn't feel right.
Thank omni and chatto. I thought about what you said. the point is I have no idea what could serve as more threat on the deck.
one time I played with this list but the results did not satisfy me:
1 plains
6 swamps
4 scrubland
4 marsh flats
2 bloodstained mire
4 wasteland
4 mishra's factory
2 nether spirit
3 liliana of the veil
1 umezawa's jitte
1 relic of progenitus
2 cursed scroll
4 swords to plowshares
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 sinkhole
4 smallpox
4 hymn
3 lingering souls
3 vindicate
What do you think?
I'm coming from mono black and is really hard to fit a good splash.
BG in my case is not an option since Bayou here in Brazil is extremely expensive.
Thanks for your patience, guys.
Well, the only splash I can properly is Green :smile: White is purely hypothetical for me. However, here is a link for some reference: http://www.mtgtop8.com/compare?l=_231817_217506_
I think what you have to make clear is what does White can offer you:
- Vindicate: hits everything
- StP: downside is like Omni said > lifegain for your opponent. However I personally wouldn't mind that
- Lingering Souls: even in graveyard it can give you tokens, plus makes you 'immune' to Spox
I thought about everything you said. the only way to put more threats in the deck, is removing the dark ritual.
then looked like this:
1 plains
6 swamp
4 scrubland
4 marsh flats
4 mishra's factory
3 wasteland
1 maze of ith
1 cabal pit
1 ghost quarter
2 Nether Spirit
1 Crucible of the Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
1 swords to plowshares (agaist mirror)
4 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
4 Vindicate
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sinkhole
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 nether void
4 Liliana of the Veil
still no idea what use the side.
I use a ghost quarter against decks that use few non-basic lands.
In those games my wastelands are expendable. Then I use myself, like a fetch.
Against burn and UR Delver, ghost quarter serves relieve the price of progress. Can I use in my non basic land, decrease the damage and seek another land.
Lifegain is fine if you're a fast aggro consistent damage deck. Zoo can afford STP since they CRACK YOUR JAW :eek: for 7 damage a turn. As Orzhov Pox, you don't run many or large enough threats. Personally, I'd consider running StP if I ran Nihilith, Tombstalker, and Phyrexian Totem as threats. They're BIG hitters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
Lingering Souls gives a more aggro feel and can effectively give you 8 threats with evasion. If you're going the many threats route, Jitte becomes more viable past the 16 threats point.
Now that you mention Golgari Pox, I actually ran, to moderate success, 2 massive green threats that cracked me up. [not Tarmogoyf]. Dirkwood Baloth & Tempting Wurm. This version was rack based due to Wurm and it was fun for casual play, but poor for serious tournament play.
Pox has 3 very pronounced weaknesses and 2 strengths.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Anti-combo. We disrupt too damn much for combo to win. Even worse with Dark Ritualist Poxers.
Anti-control. Control likes hording resources and wins with 1 threat. We cut resources like lawn mowers and no threat is safe from us.
Burn Weakness. They top deck death. We are top deckers... :cry:
Aggro Weakness. We're sacrifice based. They'll just sac cannon fodder if they drop 2-3 threats per turn.
GY Weakness. Crucible, Loam, Dredge, Flashback, etc. We Yard-dump foes faster than any other deck in the game. Yard lovers auto-win.
Build a sideboard around those principles.
I agree completely, a good analysis. Toxic Deluge can help with some creature sweeping out of the board and a Thorn of Amythest or Sphere of Resistance can help against very fast combo.