[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

I tested pack rat. And was not good.
You started needing 3 basics in your deck to not loose vs a wasteland so easy (i think more that 2 basics are waste of space. Cause you need the doubles so u cut a fetch).
And when your commit to the rat plan your other plans get bad. You just stop investing in storm to invest in rats. And you can usualy just make a rat per turn. So facing a tarmo or a delver. U would need to many turns to race it.

Has someone before me tested Divert as an alternative to Flusterstorm? I see Flusterstorm maybe better, is a pretty defensive card especially when addressing discard and stifles. Divert interests me for its "aggressive" way of interaction, redirecting an Hymn to Tourach, or a Thoughtseize seems huge to me. The problem is that it doesn't take Stifles. Which one would you prefer in a metagame full of Team America and Miracles, which is the one I expect to be at the Ovino? I'm testing both right now, so I'll let you know also my opinions.

Divert does affect stifles. I have been playing 3x in sneak and show since a lot of time. You need a blue source. And a fetch. When opp activates his fetch just fetch in response. If they stifle you divert. This can also happens so: opp activates drs fetch stifle the drs. Or you fetch. Stifle and tap sensei to draw and redirect the stifle there. Like fluster u just have to make your plays come to that sceanrio.

I've been playing 1 Fluster 1-2 Divert most of the time, since I don't feel the need for the 2nd/3rd Flusterstorm usually and Divert is better versus BUG and Jund and the like. Hymn is the key card in the BUG Delver matchup, and Divert hits it quite well. The main disadvantages to Flusterstorm are being worse vs combo and Stifle/Flusterstorm out of RUG where Flusterstorm can defend a storm spell from hand or a fetchland easier (or even counter Rough//Tumble).

in my opinion divert is a situational card.it hits a hymn quite well but sometimes it also doesn't do anything.
i wouldn't even board any of those cards which could be dead sometimes.
remember, every card we board out from the maindeck weakens the deck.

by the way,i booked for Ovino and Prage Eternal this fall, who will be there?

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

in my opinion divert is a situational card.it hits a hymn quite well but sometimes it also doesn't do anything.
i wouldn't even board any of those cards which could be dead sometimes.
remember, every card we board out from the maindeck weakens the deck.

by the way,i booked for Ovino and Prage Eternal this fall, who will be there?

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I will be storming them to dead in the Arcanis and one week after in ovino.

Divert is too narrow imo (and I'm not playing Flusterstorm anyway)

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

in my opinion divert is a situational card.it hits a hymn quite well but sometimes it also doesn't do anything.
i wouldn't even board any of those cards which could be dead sometimes.
remember, every card we board out from the maindeck weakens the deck.

by the way,i booked for Ovino and Prage Eternal this fall, who will be there?

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Me and 3 (the 2 top8 guys from PE + the one grixis you played R2) (Th-Su) + 4 vintage specialists feat Zuzy (Fr-Mo) are staying in the B&B Sesto Martelli

PE is my backyard so unless I get crazy to fly to GP NJ... btw. the new site is awesome

edit: what about the Dannish champs Nevilshute wrote about? - I've missed my cheap flight opportunity, but might get there if someone of the Ovino guys joins me

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

edit: what about the Dannish champs Nevilshute wrote about? - I've missed my cheap flight opportunity, but might get there if someone of the Ovino guys joins me

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Actually, Kai and I are opting to attend this tournament and to dominate with ANT.

Hi guys! Which is the best way to side against UWR delver and Deathblade? As Robert, i don't like siding in to many cards, so sometimes i feel unsure about boarding in 3 xantids +2 massacre +1 chain of vapor...

In my meta Deathblade is the most played deck, usually with 7 counterspells maindeck and 5 more in G2 and G3. I've thought that maybe the best way to side against this matchup could be just adding 2 Massacre and 2 Cabal therapy (4 Duress +2 therapy in MD). And against patriot, more or less the same... what do you think? In my maindeck i'm running 3 preordains and 1 personal tutor (works like the 5th infernal and can look for discard or others in some cases).

So my sideboard could be like this:

3 Abrupt decay
3 Xantid swarm (just against combo, miracles and merfolks)
2 Dread of night
2 Massacre
2 Chain of vapor
2 Cabal therapy
1 Empty the Warrens (It's worked porperly against team america, but i'm still not sure about this one).

My questions are:

1. Should I side in xantids against Canadian, UWR Delver and Deathblade? Or is it better to just side in extra discard spells?

2. Which is the best maindeck configuration? I'm not a fan of sensei's divining top and i like playing the personal tutor to have less probabilities of losing to not finding the tutor. Should i play the 7th discard spell MD?

3. Which is the best way to beat BUG Delver? Empty the Warrens works... sometimes.

Thanks for helping!

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

Divert is too narrow imo (and I'm not playing Flusterstorm anyway)




Me and 3 (the 2 top8 guys from PE + the one grixis you played R2) (Th-Su) + 4 vintage specialists feat Zuzy (Fr-Mo) are staying in the B&B Sesto Martelli

PE is my backyard so unless I get crazy to fly to GP NJ... btw. the new site is awesome

edit: what about the Dannish champs Nevilshute wrote about? - I've missed my cheap flight opportunity, but might get there if someone of the Ovino guys joins me

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I'm happy you are considering going Slosh!

For any information you can check out the DLM (Danish Legacy Masters) on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DanishLegacyMasters

I have just posted the prize structure today :smile:

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Originally Posted by Togores

Divert does affect stifles. I have been playing 3x in sneak and show since a lot of time. You need a blue source. And a fetch. When opp activates his fetch just fetch in response. If they stifle you divert. This can also happens so: opp activates drs fetch stifle the drs. Or you fetch. Stifle and tap sensei to draw and redirect the stifle there. Like fluster u just have to make your plays come to that sceanrio.

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That's right, and I didn't figure it out. That's why tips from better players are so helpful :tongue:

Talking about better players, Kai and Jamie, wouldn't you run Flusterstorms/Divert in 2 copies in the board in order to fight Team America? I know that our maindeck configuration is already prepared to fight it, but, following Carsten's upgrade-our-tools theory, I was thinking about a 2-of to improve this match-up, which I expect to be so popular at the Ovino (I'm Italian, so I have an idea of the metagame here). Because they cut their dead cards to bring in even more hate, so I'd like to "react". I think that this is our worse match-up, maybe only for me, so I'm testing it extensively trying to improve my ability to beat it.

Thanks a lot everybody for your help!

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Originally Posted by Surfinbird

Hi guys! Which is the best way to side against UWR delver and Deathblade? As Robert, i don't like siding in to many cards, so sometimes i feel unsure about boarding in 3 xantids +2 massacre +1 chain of vapor...

In my meta Deathblade is the most played deck, usually with 7 counterspells maindeck and 5 more in G2 and G3. I've thought that maybe the best way to side against this matchup could be just adding 2 Massacre and 2 Cabal therapy (4 Duress +2 therapy in MD). And against patriot, more or less the same... what do you think? In my maindeck i'm running 3 preordains and 1 personal tutor (works like the 5th infernal and can look for discard or others in some cases).

So my sideboard could be like this:

3 Abrupt decay
3 Xantid swarm (just against combo, miracles and merfolks)
2 Dread of night
2 Massacre
2 Chain of vapor
2 Cabal therapy
1 Empty the Warrens (It's worked porperly against team america, but i'm still not sure about this one).

My questions are:

1. Should I side in xantids against Canadian, UWR Delver and Deathblade? Or is it better to just side in extra discard spells?

2. Which is the best maindeck configuration? I'm not a fan of sensei's divining top and i like playing the personal tutor to have less probabilities of losing to not finding the tutor. Should i play the 7th discard spell MD?

3. Which is the best way to beat BUG Delver? Empty the Warrens works... sometimes.

Thanks for helping!

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1. I am hesistant to side in Xantid against decks with wasteland. I think Extra discard is probably better. Depends on the deck's board plan. If they are upping their counterspell count to a point that is more you can handle then maybe bring in Xantid then.

2. There is no consensus best list yet. It all depends on meta and playstyle. If you don't want to play top you could play a grim tutor and 7th discard spell like CabalTherapy does. I haven't tested with Personal Tutor so I have nothing to say there. If you want to play it I suggest testing with it a lot before taking it to a big tournament.

3. Go faster than they can handle. They are rather counter light compared to other Delver decks so if you can go off turn one or two before they cast hymn you will probably win. When you can't fast combo them you will have to grind, which is a very feasible plan when you have Sensei's Divining Top in your list.

I was wondering are any of you European Storm players coming to the States for GP NJ? Come teach these dumb Americans Storm's not dead! :laugh:

I won't go no this GP, i'm only 18 (since 16 playing ANT!) so I haven't got money hahahaha. But i'll try to go to the GP Lille in July!

I'm competing in the catalan league of legacy (1 tournament every month till november, between 70 and 150 players depending on the city where it's celebrated) and after the first 8 months i'm the 3rd :D I'll try to crush the next 3 tournaments to end up winning the league! Here is the ranking: http://www.eternalcatala.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2560

I'm a bit desperated to find an alternative wincon to beat team america and i've found this:

https://scontent-a-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/...93&oe=5485AF64

I don't think it works, but I post it anyways:rolleyes:

Nevishute - I'd really like to attend, but money, right after Ovino, blablabla... will see..

Dragonslayer - dunno might be a few, the group I was aware of there was none

Surfinbird -

1. I prefer just Canadian Threshold, UWR has more important permanent hate than counters, Deathblade - just Fow+randoms soft, has Liliana, potentinaly Clique = why?

2. the one you feel best with

3. there is no clear answer, I like EtW and Needle to some extent, I started testing Talrand - awfuly hard to cast, ends game in 2 turns if you untap with it, probably not worth it


The new Empty potentionaly nets you ~5 zombies T2 if things go very good (which means win through PiF in vast majority of times anyway), those do not die to Golgari Charm, but are too few and easily blocked, storm independence is nice but the spell is very hungry and likely improves the deck just in few cornercases

Deathblade players in my metagame are running 4 Fows + 3 spell pierce MD plus 3 flusterstorm and 2 swan song in the sideboard, but i think i can beath them with 4 Duress and 4 cabal therapy:)

Now i'm running this sideboard:

3 Xantid Swarm
3 Dread of night
3 Abrupt decay
2 Chain of vapor
2 Massacre (maybe the 2n one should be another chain of vapor? I love them against UWR delver, Deathblade and thalia decks, but the combination with AN is a problem)
1 Cabal therapy
1 empty the warrens

In the MD i'm running 2 preordains, 1 personal tutor and the 3rd therapy (so 7 discard spells)

The list is working pretty good and i'll keep it like this for the next tournaments. I'll side like this:

UGR threshold:

+3 xantid +1 cabal therapy + 1 empty the warrens
- 4 gitaxian probe -1 cabal ritual

Team America:

+1 Empty the warrens
-1 gitaxian probe

UWR Delver:

+2 Massacre +1 Cabal therapy + 1 chain of vapor
-2 gitaxian probe -1 preordain -1 cabal ritual

Deathblade:

+ 2 Massacre +1 chain of vapor +1 cabal therapy
- 2 gitaxian probe -1 cabal ritual -1 lotus petal

Do you think it's correct?

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Originally Posted by Dragonslayer_90

I was wondering are any of you European Storm players coming to the States for GP NJ? Come teach these dumb Americans Storm's not dead! :laugh:

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I will travel with a few friends to Usa in october to play scg Worcester and eternal weekend in philadefia, just to take both events by storm by ease :D

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Originally Posted by Togores

I will travel with a few friends to Usa in october to play scg Worcester and eternal weekend in philadefia, just to take both events by storm by ease :D

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And I will play against you round one and dream crush.

Seriously though, it will be nice to have some ANT around this area. I wasn't exaggerating with the examples in my earlier post.

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Originally Posted by Surfinbird

Deathblade players in my metagame are running 4 Fows + 3 spell pierce MD plus 3 flusterstorm and 2 swan song in the sideboard, but i think i can beath them with 4 Duress and 4 cabal therapy:)

Now i'm running this sideboard:

3 Xantid Swarm
3 Dread of night
3 Abrupt decay
2 Chain of vapor
2 Massacre (maybe the 2n one should be another chain of vapor? I love them against UWR delver, Deathblade and thalia decks, but the combination with AN is a problem)
1 Cabal therapy
1 empty the warrens

I am a fan of the 3 Chain/1 Massacre configuration, however, my Grim Tutor allows for copying Massacre. Not sure if you need Dread of Nights because 3 Chains function in a similar way.

In the MD i'm running 2 preordains, 1 personal tutor and the 3rd therapy (so 7 discard spells)

The list is working pretty good and i'll keep it like this for the next tournaments. I'll side like this:

UGR threshold:

+3 xantid +1 cabal therapy + 1 empty the warrens
- 4 gitaxian probe -1 cabal ritual


They don't have a chance to interact with our hand, but I see Xantid Swarm as a easy target for Lightning Bolt. EtW and Therapies are very good here.
On the other hand, I won't board out the full set of Probes because they a very valuable if the opponent is short on counter. You can spot free zones with Probe.
But I guess Xantid Swarm may do some good work, too.

Team America:

+1 Empty the warrens
-1 gitaxian probe

Looks solid. I like Chain of Vapor here (and of course SDT) because it can bounce stuff like Deathrite, Null Rod. End of turn a nice Chain of Deathrite and in turn the usual Pif-Loop is a nice way to win.

UWR Delver:

+2 Massacre +1 Cabal therapy + 1 chain of vapor
-2 gitaxian probe -1 preordain -1 cabal ritual

Maybe you can switch one Duress for one Therapy in order to maintain the 7 discard spells. With your SB something like this:
+2 Massacre, +1 Therapy, +2 Chain of Vapor
-1 Duress, -1 Cabal Ritual, -1 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Lotus Petal (we don't have to win fast here), -1 Preordain

Deathblade:

+ 2 Massacre +1 chain of vapor +1 cabal therapy
- 2 gitaxian probe -1 cabal ritual -1 lotus petal

Looks good. Maybe again: -1 Duress and keep 3 Probes in the main.

Do you think it's correct?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surfinbird

Deathblade players in my metagame are running 4 Fows + 3 spell pierce MD plus 3 flusterstorm and 2 swan song in the sideboard, but i think i can beath them with 4 Duress and 4 cabal therapy:)

that makes more sense then

Now i'm running this sideboard:

3 Xantid Swarm
3 Dread of night
3 Abrupt decay
2 Chain of vapor
2 Massacre (maybe the 2n one should be another chain of vapor? I love them against UWR delver, Deathblade and thalia decks, but the combination with AN is a problem)
1 Cabal therapy
1 empty the warrens

In the MD i'm running 2 preordains, 1 personal tutor and the 3rd therapy (so 7 discard spells)

The list is working pretty good and i'll keep it like this for the next tournaments. I'll side like this:

UGR threshold:

+3 xantid +1 cabal therapy + 1 empty the warrens
- 4 gitaxian probe -1 cabal ritual

Probes below 3 is something you don't usualy want, 2 or less really bad you never go bellow 2 in ~standard list , -4 GP that was back in the days GP as release and people were sceptical even playing it
yours -1 GP, -Personal Tutor (U and disadvantagev), -2 Duress (XS is interchangable), -CR or Preordain for me


Team America:

+1 Empty the warrens
-1 gitaxian probe

or -CR, but with EtW definitely +CT -Duress

UWR Delver:

+2 Massacre +1 Cabal therapy + 1 chain of vapor
-2 gitaxian probe -1 preordain -1 cabal ritual

yours +CoV, +GP, +EtW, -Preordain, -Personal Tutor, -Duress

Deathblade:

+ 2 Massacre +1 chain of vapor +1 cabal therapy
- 2 gitaxian probe -1 cabal ritual -1 lotus petal

the same as UWR maybe +PT, depends on if permanents/counters are in their SB, I find it really hard to tell, XS may be reasonable

Do you think it's correct?

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