It was last month.
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It was last month.
I used to have Mana Maze in the side a long time ago, it's actually really good against some decks. Especially vs Elves (time walk them if you decay on their upkeep and they can't glipmse-chain) and Burn (close to the same story, but then use Bolt to keep creeps in check) It slows them down enough to set up your own game plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitefaces
It's ok vs Storm decks, but they possibly work around it using different spells in the right order. But it makes it harder to chain their spells obviously.
In the end I changed it for some other cards that are overal better. But it's a fun card to use.
Lewis,
I'm running almost your 75, but with Sudden Demise instead of Forked Bolt. I smashed elves the last time I saw it with a juicy 5 for 1 Demise. O_O
Appreciate the boarding guide btw. How many Pyro/reb do you bring in.. in the grixis mirror?
What are your thoughts on Bob's list he posted here: http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...o-the-experts/
Hi guys!
I decided to play some leagues with good old Grixis again. My old list was:
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13514&d=279487&f=LE
I didn't change much in the mainboard, but the sideboard changed a lot: Most importantly I've moved away from dedicated Miracle sideboard-slots like Abrupt Decay (only mediocre against anything else) or even Winter Orb or Vortex. The reason was that I always had plenty of stuff to side in, Miracles has just such a "popular" axis of attack that having flusterstorms, pyroblasts, needles etc. are enough for me to take out all the bad cards that I want (I like to keep in like 2 dazes 2 wastelands, 2 bolts because they're still great in specific scenarios).
Dismember overall was just way easier to cast than Terminate, being able to play it around daze against Grixis and with one open mana against TKS is what makes this card really great.
Overall I really didn't like Spell Pierce in this deck. It just seemed to be good in the matchups I'm confident in anyways (combo, delver, shardless) while lacking behind against lands, D&T, Elves, various non-shardless BUG-decks (Food Chain, Alluren). I decided to switch it with Spell Snare which also happens to be at least as good as Spell Pierce against Miracles stopping Counterbalance most importantly, but also Snapcaster Mage, Counterspell and Predict.
The other cards I constantly boarded out were the Gitaxian Probes. I realized they were good with the therapies in the sb and I still like them when I draw exactly 1, but with no therapies in the mainboard I just think you can do better things with that slot. I've decided to go for an additional Spell Snare. I just really think this card is really good right now. Its bad matchups (Threshold Delver, S&T) are all decks I feel I have like a 70% win rate anyways. It's also just really good to hold up stifle and Spell Snare when on the draw, gaining back the tempo.
I still wanted the Therapy-probe-YP combo against certain decks so how did I compensate for the loss of the third probe? First I placed it in the sideboard, but I quickly saw how abysmal it is to waste a sideboard slot on Gitaxian Probe. I've then replaced it with a Thoughtseize and I really like it. Not only does it give me an "additional look" similar to Gitaxian Probe (giving me 6 cards the 3 therapies are great with), it's also really nice to bring in against certain decks where I want discard as an additional angle of attack, but the opponent's reactive answers and threats are so diverse I'm not necessarily sure what to name (e.g. against Lands, Miracles, 4cLoam, Eldrazi).
The last change I made to the mainboard was to switch to Scalding Tarns and a Badlands instead of the 3rd Volcanic. This was a switch that I wanted to try for a long time and now finally had the budget for. I think having a 3rd black source helps a lot against bad matchups like D&T and lands, but even against decks that play no wastelands it lets you get super tight mana. Also playing t1 usea-> drs into t2 cantrip->fetch badlands is great because you now can still activate DRS.
Enough explaining, here's my current list:
18 Lands
4x scalding tarn
4x polluted delta
2x volcanic island
2x underground sea
1x tropical island
1x badlands
4x wasteland
13 Creatures
4x deathrite shaman
4x delver of secrets
3x young pyromancer
2x gurmag angler
29 Spells
4x brainstorm
4x ponder
4x force of will
4x daze
4x stifle
2x gitaxian probe
2x spell snare
1x dismember
4x lightning bolt
Sideboard
2x pithing needle
2x surgical extraction
1x thoughtseize
3x cabal therapy
2x forked bolt
2x pyroblast
1x flusterstorm
2x ancient grudge
After having experimented with BUG Delver for a little while I came to miss the brutally efficient red sideboard cards that red has to offer: Forked Bolt is often times a 2-for-1, but also "just" kills DRS and flipped Delver. I still like it better than Darkblast because of that. You could see the second Pithing Needle as a substitute for Winter Orb. It's still great against Miracles, but it also helps against bad matchups in lands and D&T. Pyroblast seems especially good right now, not only because of Miracles but also because of all these blue BUG decks.
I don't like playing clunky cards like Jitte, TNN, EE, Sudden Demise etc. because my deck philosophy is to stay as mana efficient with every card as possible.
My two leagues went both 4-1. The first league I lost against Painter Servant: First game I got blood mooned otd, second game I accidentally fetched my badlands and then realized I can't play my spell snare on painter servant with that which lost me the game. I don't recall the other matches, but i definitely played against one Miracles and a Delver player. I can give a small report about my second run though:
Round 1: Alluren
G1: Sadly I had to mull to 5 otp and had to keep a hand with 2 fetches, bolt, angler and FoW. I held the ground fairly well, but eventually he forced my daze on his alluren. I bolted the shardless agent in response to his strix, but he simply flashed in parasitic strix: The card disadvantage was just too much for me.
In: 2x Pyroblast, 2x Ancient Grudge; Out: 2x Probe, 2x Angler
normally side out all FoWs against in this mu, but somehow I convinced myself that keeping them might be better than ending up with Therapies when in topdeck mode. Angler came out with the logic that they play 4 strixes and tons of blockers on the ground. In hindsight I have to much removal though while they have propably no way to deal with it that it definitely was a mistake.
G2: In the second game I kept a very reactive hand with ponder, stifle, daze, bolt, dismember and 2 fetches. I am able to stifle his first fetch. ponder and find brainstorm and grudge and decide to keep. I brainstorm into Pyroblast and more lands. I draw a delver with my hand of mono-answers, but it gets decayed. Grudge does fantastic by getting rid of strix and agent. My deck does a fantastic job at keeping up card-advantage-wise with my opponent, but eventually I brainstorm-lock myself with 3 FoWs while my opponent gets ahead with Sylvan library and eventually wins at 3 life.
Round 2: Alluren (same guy again. Yay modo!)
G1: He keeps a very reactive hand with lots of decays. I again have no threats in hand at first, but a pretty firm grip on the board with daze, stifle, dismember. I draw a total of 3 delvers, 2 of which he decays, and finish with him having FoW and a bunch of Allurens in hand.
In: 1 Thoughtseize, 2 Therapy, 2 Grudge, 2 Pyroblast; Out: 4 FoW, 2 Angler, Dismember
Dismember seemed like the worst removal spell of the bunch, I propably still should've left in Anglers though.
G2: I keep a hand with badlands wasteland DRS and a bunch of blue cards, but no removal. My opponent fetches for all basics before I can react and I'm stuck with stifles and far too many lands.
Out of frustration over my last card in hand I side out all FoWs and all stifles for the full discard and removal package + anglers. In hindsight I was too tilted about the last game, imo you need either daze+stifle or FoW to actually stop the big enchantment from coming down.
G3: It's the longest game of the bunch with 19 minutes. I keep a solid hand and even though he kills all my creatures I'm able to remove his stuff very efficiently thx to Pyroblast, Ancient Grudge and Spell Snare (and bolt of course). I finally crash in for lethal with Pyromancer.
Btw I think the correct sideboarding is actually -4 FoW -1 Probe +2 Pyroblast +2 Ancient Grudge +1 Thoughtseize.
Round 3: Miracles
G1: I mull to a solid 6 with 2 fetches, DRS, bolt, ponder and brainstorm. Though I'm generally careful about overextending in this matchup and hate to FoW a terminus I commit DRS as well as a fresh-drawn delver onto the board because I have FoW-backup and my opponent clearly nor has terminus in the top3 nor brainstorm + terminus in hand. Dealing 5 a turn his Monastery Mentor which I just let resolve doesn't help at all and I quickly kill him.
In: 2 Pyroblast 2 Pithing Needle 1 Thougtseize 1 Cabal Therapy 1 Flusterstorm; Out: 1 Dismember, 2 Bolt, 2 Daze, 2 Wasteland
G2: I keep a stacked hand with usea, 2 drs, delver, angler and bs. More creatures than I like but I don't think I can mulligan this hand. My opponent swords-snap-swords my creatures which is totally fine with me since I have plenty where those came from. He then terminuses away delver and snapcaster and with now 2 anglers, bs, thoughtseize and FoW in hand things seem a bit more grim since I only have 2 cards in my gy and volc+usea. My opponent has 4 lands (1 fetch) + top though and thoughtseize takes pyroblast leaving entreat, making me feel much better about my full hand. After he swordsed another DRS I finally have Angler on board and FOW, fluster and BS in hand to his entreat and like 5 lands.
He finds a counterbalance with his top which I feel obliged to force. He finds brainstorm and puts entreat on top. The next turn I even have to stifle a terminus. He has 6 lands, but can't play it into flusterstorm. Because of this he knows I have some sort of soft counter and plays land and entreat for 2 angels on the following upkeep. Here I flusterstorm to force him to go to 8, crack his remaining 2 fetches and shuffle away his top (if he wants to terminus that's fine with me, flusterstorm won't do much more in this game. I curse as the card I draw was a pyroblast which would've given me an additional storm count had he made the angles during my combat phase. It's turn 8.
Still, pyroblast is one of the best cards in this match. I don't pyroblast a ponder he plays and ultimately keeps, but blast away the predict he plays immediately afterwards, thinking I'll force him to draw at least 1 card he won't like. I draw FoW and my 5th land to shield myself from the worst like a Jace or a Snapcaster Mage.
Drawing Pithing Needle here I decide to keep it so I don't have to waste my FoW on a potential Jace (replay angler and needle next turn). Turns out he draws top and makes the error of letting needle resolve before putting it on top. He is currently on 5 due to his fetching as I draw one of the 2 remaining bolts in my deck. I could use it to clear the board, but with 2 FoWs in hand I see no reason to not play for the long game. It's turn 15.
I draw a delver and he answers with a EE for 1 which I hardcast FoW on: If my delver resolves I can attack with both and if he doesn't chump block angler he's dead to bolt. He has pyroblast in hand though, so Delver is dead and EE also clears needle and (luckily) his top. I draw Young Pyromancer which is great because I get to play him and attack with Angler. As expected he double-blocks and I can bolt the angel, leaving me with a token. A second EE takes care of pyromancer, but a single token when your opponent is at 5 life and you have FoW in hand is pretty great. I actually counter the hardcast terminus with a hardcast FoW, putting him to 3. Probe reveals Coucil's Judgement and Scalding Tarn. He proceeds to judgement away my probe. I draw 2 stifles and daze for my next draws and almost give up as I see Snapcaster and Flusterstorm in his hand, but then I draw the last bolt! I bolt him in his upkeep, turns out stifle is pretty good against flusterstorm as well as against snapcaster mage :D. I win on turn 23.
Round 4: Pox
G1: I keep a solid 7 with DRS and 2 bolts otp, but throw up a bit as my opponent leads with a tabernacle. Luckily I get to waste it, stifle a wasteland and spell snare a smallpox. I draw 3 bolts which help speed up the clock if nothing else, another stifle keeps care of ratchet bomb while my opponent plays 2 chains of mephistopheles that do nothing.
Out: 4 bolts 1 dismember; In: 1 Flusterstorm, 2 Pithing Needle, 2 Ancient Grudge
G2: Only against Pox can you have a 4-lander, draw an additional land and still lose to mana-screw thanks to double hymn to tourach, wasteland and double sinkhole. Spell Snare died honorably in battle. After he wipes my hand and board off spells I draw nonlands for the next 6 turns and die to mishra's factory, nether spirit and cursed scroll.
G3: Long story short I draw a shit ton of 1-mana creatures including angler and beat him down in quick fashion. I even got to have the pleasure to play around Chains of Mephistopheles: I had angler, brainstorm and ponder in hand. So I played the ponder, discarded the brainstorm to the chains "tax" and filled my gy that way so I could play Angler next turn! Chains seemed like a really bad card in general (especially for costing over 200 bucks in paper :p): It really only stops brainstorm from being a real card all the other cards can play around it when you have multiples or lands you want to get rid of.
Round 5: RUG valuetown
This guy had a brew which was UR splashing for green for the P-Fire combo and I guess loam though I didn't see any. Also I'm sure he had Dack Fayden. He did have bolts, JTMS, thing in the ice and your standard blue cards.
G1: I keep a hand otp with fetch, waste, delver, angler, bolt, fow and stifle. Sadly my opponent has the soul read and wastelands me t1. I flip with Probe and see thing in the ice, jace and a bunch of other durdly stuff, no FoW or removal spell. I draw a badlands which I play and pass. My opponent finds a bolt which I force, playing Bolt EOT so I can play my angler which turns out to be an absolute powerhouse and nigh unbeatable for his deck outside of bouncing with Jace/TITI: After bolting Delver he chumps with TITI, Bedlam Reveler and Vendilion Clique. I don't draw another land but a DRS which is enough to put the nail in the coffin since he already was at 1. Most importantly he showed me Grove of the Burnwillows before discarding with Bedlam Reveler and I remember seeing a P-Fire-Loam-Dack_Fayden-Brew from hipsterofthecoast so I remember to bring in surgicals and cut my removal spells (even if he has creatures I'm pretty certain I can outrace them).
Out: 3 Bolt, 1 Dismember, 2 Probes; In: 1 Thoughtseize, 1 Flusterstorm, 2 Pyroblast, 2 Surgical
G2: Glad I made the switch to Badlands I keep a hand with Badlands, Waste and DRS. I also have stifle and brainstorm so I keep. It's not the most resilient hand, but his deck didn't really seem to be able to punish a little mana screw like let's say a delver or a lands deck. I'm able to waste him off his second land, but he spell pierces my stifle targeting his fetchland, sadly I have no free counters in hand to defend it. I draw brainstorm and brick on lands, leaving me with the 1 volcanic, DRS, 2YP in hand. I also have stifle, pyroblast, bolt and daze though. I think about surgicaling myself to shuffle my library, but ultimately decide against it since I think I can defend from his clunky finishers with Daze and Pyroblast for the time being, but have to discard bolt to hand size a turn later.
When I draw a wasteland I can play my first YP which he P-Fires with Grove out. I surgical in response to grove activation, but he flusterstorms and I have to let it resolve. Yikes. He follows it up with a Jace and I Pyroblast it which he forces. On the bright side I finally drew a fetchland and could waste his grove as well as play a DRS. He wastelands my volc then though, p-fires my DRS and leaves me with usea against his 4 lands and active jace. My only proactive play is Angler which would be ok with stifle for jace, but I'm still stuck on 1 land. I'm able to replay the angler after he bounces it, leaving me with 0 cards in hand. For whatever reason though he then brainstorms with his jace which has 2 loyalty (misclick I guess) and I get to kill jace and pretty much finish him off with Angler again.
Anyways, I'm pretty glad with this current list. Still a big fan of stifle. I'm glad I finally found room for Spell Snare, it always was one of the cards I missed when coming back from playing other Delver variants. 2 mana is just a very weak spot for delver decks imo: Spells like Counterbalance, Chalice, Hymn, Strix etc. are 2-for-1s and some almost demand a FoW. Spells with CMC 3 are already something entirely different because you can daze them easier/stifle or waste their lands, also force becomes more justified because of the tempo gain.
I can see people argueing that I should prepare more for the meta online and less for decks like lands and D&T, but honestly I find this deck so absurdly efficient and powerful in its own way that I see myself having a good chance against every single deck in the format (with Dark Depths decks still being unfavorable, but definitely winnable). There's just never a match where I'm like "man, I can't beat this deck". The Grixis threats are also very hard to hate out because each one has its very own weakness.
Changes I'll propably make is switching the 3rd Therapy in the SB for a second Thoughtseize to bring in against reactive midrange decks where I don't want to rely on probe to give me the information i need (in the second league e.g. it would've been good to have a second thoughtseize against alluren, miracles and RUG durdler).
Heys guys. I love Grixis Delver (Tempo) and have read through all the pages on this thread. The data and help you get here is better than anywhere else! So I just want to thank everybody for all the posts.
So, here is the list I've been playing and I love it, but am always open to suggestions:
Mainboard
Lands
8 Blue Fetch
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Gurmag Angler
Instants
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Pierce
Sorcery
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
Sideboard
Instant
2 Fatal Push
1 Dismember
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Invasive Surgery
3 Pyroblast
Sorcery
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Painful Truths
1 Forked Bolt
Planeswalker
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Artifact
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
So I love listening to The Brainstorm Show podcast, and their latest episode about sideboarding was one of the best podcasts I've ever heard about Magic. I did exactly what they said, and created a sideboard map ranking my cards (1-10) vs. 15 possible decks. I'm attaching this spreadsheet (in google docs) for your review.
Just MAKING the spreadsheet got me to understand my deck more intently. But, the problem with the sideboard map is that all the rankings are based on my personal opinion of the cards, and how powerful they are in each match up. My rankings led me to believe Cabal Therapy is so powerful, that I actually moved the 3rd one from the sideboard to my mainboard, and put a dismember in the sideboard. This decision was strictly based on the numbers in the spreadsheet.
What I want everybody's opinion on, is how powerful is Cabal Therapy? Am I overrating it, and shouldn't have 3 in the mainboard?
Also, please feel free to look over the spreadsheet and provide any opinions on if a card is ranked correctly, or incorrectly according to you (the spreadsheet is large, and each group of five decks is divided by tier and I haven't completed the 3rd tier. Tier one deck rankings are weight by a multiple of 1.5, and Tier 2 is weighted by a multiple of 1.25). Cards highlighted in pink in my mainboard are cards I want to cut, and cards highlighted in green in the sideboard are cards I want to bring in.
I look forward to reading all the replies, and can't wait for you guys to help me improve.
Thank you
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
I listened to the podcast and while I fully agree that it's vital to have sideboard plans in your head for every matchup I disagree on these power ranking things. The reason is something the cast themself said on the show, you cannot fully "solve" legacy, it's just such a vast amount of data that it's impossible to really fully understand. Instead you have to simplify a lot of things. Ranking every individual card from 1 to 10 really doesn't help here.
May I instead suggest ranking the cards just from 1-3?
1 would be a card that is almost dead in the matchup and does very little. Examples would be dismember against Miracles or burn, decay against combo
2 would be a card that, while not perfect, does an ok job. Bolt vs. combo and miracles is an example, angler vs. combo, also stifle vs. burn and strix vs. D&T and Elves (therapy fodder).
3 would be a card that is actually "good" in a matchup, so you definitely want to keep it or bring it in.
Anything beyond this rating is waay too much overthinking in my eyes. Simplifying it this way would also make it easier to discuss and compare the general opinion on these cards.
That said here're some points where I disagree with your spread sheet, for the time being only on the Miracles matchup because it's the most popular one:
You don't rate any creature higher than 7/10 besides Angler (8/10) who is the only creature that just dies to STP. Do you really value therapies higher (10/10) than threats that actually advance our game plan? My personal opinion on Therapy is that while I'd like to have a Thoughtseize effect sometimes often times we're both in topdeck mode and there's like 5 different cards they could have in hand (brainstorm, pyroblast, snapcaster, swords, etc.).
Giving Daze only a 2/10 or 3/10 while giving your first three wastelands 10/10 also seems wrong. Do your Miracles opponents never fetch basics?
You value Baleful Strix a 6/10? Why? Because it's Therapy fodder? Then why do you value it 1/10 vs. D&T? At least it holds back Serra Avenger and Flickerwisp until you need it while pinging your opponent.
It's commonly agreed that Surgical is not where you want to be vs. Miracles, yet you value both of them 6/10, giving them a similar rating to Dread of Night (which imo is also bad in this MU) and EE (which imo is closer to an 8/10). May I ask why? Is it just because it gives you a look at your opponents hand and can prevent a second Terminus?
Please don't take my criticism personally, I'm merely curious if you actually mean these ratings or perhaps were just a bit tired after typing this vast spreadsheet.
Again I'd like to point out that a 1-3 rating would make things a bit simpler imo. Here would be my personal rating on 1-3 for all these sideboard cards vs. Miracles (you seem to have some cards double):
Cabal Therapy 2
Abrupt Decay 3
Pyroblast 3
Fatal Push 1
Surgical Extraction 1
Dismember 1
Engineered Explosives 3
Baleful Strix 2
Invasive Surgery 3
Forked Bolt 1
Diabolic Edict 1
Pithing Needle 3
Darkblast 1
Ancient Grudge 1
Umezawa's Jitte 1
Dread of Night 1
Winter Orb 3
Sulfuric Vortex 3
Painful Truths 2*
Chandra, Torch of Defiance 3
*PT is really better in a deck where it's about card advantage because you have easy ways to deal with counterbalance like decay. PT in Grixis is not really where you want to be tempo-wise, especially because you have to tap low without really doing anything.
Why would I ever take your criticism personally? I'm a grown up lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrippa91
No, these rankings are my honest assessment. I'm just learning. I just picked up Legacy in December 2016, and every ranking you see in that sheet is my honest-to-goodness rankings.
Why do I rank my first three wastelands as 10/10's you ask? Because they are land that I need to cast spells, and I think dropping below 17 is irresponsible and asking to get mana screwed.
I've determined that splashing green for Abrupt Decay isn't worth it, and even though it is ranked VERY HIGHLY across the board...that's why I didn't include it my sideboard. But I can be convinced otherwise.
Thanks for the reply, I will say that suggesting that I was "tired" after typing this long spreadsheet comes off kind of wrong and condescending and you probably should come up with a way to word that better (basically suggesting the only reason I'd rank cards like this is because of fatigue)...or not say it at all.
Either way, I appreciate your replies, and would love to continue this discussion over these forums. I need all the help I can get, LOL!
I have a lot to learn!!
I'll keep your input in mind. Wording is sometimes a bit more difficult for me because English is not my primary language, so sometimes I just blurt something out without really knowing how to phrase it otherwise. I meant no offense, but see where you're coming from.
Could you elaborate on why you like Strix so much against Miracles but not at all against D&T? The role it plays (minor distraction that's therapy fodder in grindy matchups) seems to be quite similar to me.
I started playing Abrupt Decay pretty much the entire year of 2016, but ultimately abandoned it as I became more familiar with the Miracles matchup and saw that it was not necessary to win the match. The other you decks you would want it against almost exclusively play Wasteland, so it's generally a pretty bad idea to play it imo because it gets stuck in hand about half the time, against stuff like Elves/Burn that don't play Wasteland it's too mana inefficient and mediocre at best.
About wasteland: The only spell it actually "casts" is Young Pyromancer, everything else costs colorless. Keep in mind that decks like Storm and reanimator also only play around 14-15 lands. Personally I shave 3 Wastelands against Burn (keep one against PoP to prevent 2 dmg when I have too many lands) and 2 against Miracles (non-legend-build, legend plays cavern and karakas) and never had a problem not casting my spells that I wouldn't have, it's really all about the colored sources 98% of the time.
Is Chandra any good? She seems quite succeptible to a flashed in Snapcaster while I'm not sure the high casting cost and all these reactive cards (especially postboard) do much good. Wouldn't a Sulfuric Vortex just be better?
Thanks for the reply man!Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrippa91
Strix is rated very highly but i actually don't even have it in my sideboard as I've chosen targeted removal (fatal push) instead in the board.
I did this because I'd rather be able to kill the creature I'd like. It was tough for me to make this cut as I love baleful Strix. I found it was getting negated by Thalia first strike and MOM in the death and taxes matchup.
Chandra is very hard for miracles to handle. They only can flip jace to counterbalance it and councils judgment is their only trade as engineered explosives won't touch it.
How many wastelands do you cut in the miracles matchup?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Took down a 1K Eternal Extravaganza Satellite event today with my take on Stifle Grixis Delver! Only 20 players though. So many Modern Masters themed events were going on this weekend, so that's why attendance was low.
Will write a full report tomorrow if you guys want to hear about today.
Here is my list for those who want to see it.
Land
1x Flooded Strand
3x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island
4x Wasteland
Sorceries
4x Ponder
Instants
4x Stifle
2x Thought Scour
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
1x Dismember
4x Force of Will
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Spell Pierce
Creatures
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Delver of Secrets
3x Gurmag Angler
2x True-Name Nemesis
Sideboard
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Baleful Strix
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Flusterstorm
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Painful Truths
1x Pithing Needle
2x Pyroblast
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Winter Orb
1x Submerge
1x Thoughtseize
1x Grafdigger's Cage
This Saturday I had the pleasure of playing in the EE6 Legacy Main Event, and went 6-2, keeping up my tradition of going X-2 at Every Legacy EE I go to (EE3-6). I registered the following Decklist
4 Delver
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
Sideboard
3 Pyroblast
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Baleful Strix
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Snuff Out
1 Ancient Grudge
I have seen a big shift in Grixis Delver recently, with most players Eschewing the Dismember Spell Pierce and 2 Therapies for 4 Stifle. I feel this makes the miracles matchup much better as well as also giving another angle of attack versus the increasing in popularity BUG Leovold Deck.
Round 1 (BYE)
Was completely unaware that I had a bye but I’ll take it. Listened to some music and decided to shoulder-surf a few friends.
Round 2 (Brendan Mcgrail on 4C Control) 1-2
Game 1 He thoughtseizes me and takes my stifle. I draw a stifle and pass. I wasteland him and stifle his fetch and he can’t find a land and concedes. Game 2 we grind for a bit after I take a mulligan. He resolves a 5/6 Goyf and the game ends in quick fashion. Game 3 he plays a Baleful Strix on turn 2 and another on turn 3 to quickly halt any action I have, and wins in quick fashion thanks to a Tarmogoyf.
Boarding:
Out: 4 Force of Will 2 Gitaxian Probe
In: 3 Pyroblast 2 Baleful Strix 1 Umezawa’s Jitte
Round 3 (Abraham Clayman on Death and Taxes) 1-2
Game 1 I force of will an Aether Vial and wasteland him twice and we move to game 2 in quick fashion. Game 2 we grind and I make a critical misplay that costs me an otherwise unlosable game. I have 1 Scalding Tarn in my graveyard and a Deathrite and also a Tropical Island untapped, and I need to hold up ancient grudge to kill a sword of fire and ice that was in his hand.I cast Gurmag Angler and decide to delve away my tarn. End of turn he taps my tropical with port and untaps and puts a sword of fire and ice onto his Mirran Crusader. Game 3 I can’t find mana and Thalia kills me quickly.
Out: 4 Stifle, 2 Force of Will, 1 Gitaxian Probe
In: 2 Pithing Needle, 2 Baleful Strix, 1 Snuff Out, 1 Ancient Grudge, 1 Umezawa’s Jitte
Round 4 (Lucas Wade on Miracles) 2-0
My first earned win of the day! Game 1 is an odd game, I play a Delver and then stifle 3 of his fetches, dazing a mentor that he finally lands and killing him the turn after.
Our Game 2 is very interesting, I have 3 lands and he has Counter-Top with 1 mana open. I cast a Deathrite and in response he activates top to draw a card. I stifle his top. He Pyroblasts my Stifle which I daze. He blindflips a Tundra, and my Deathrite resolves. I then pyroblast his Counterbalance and Pithing Needle his Sensei’s Divining Top.
Out: 4 Lightning Bolt,, 2 Ponder, 2 Gitaxian Probe
In: 2 Pithing Needle, 3 Cabal Therapy, 3 Pyroblast
Round 5 (Michael Sol on Maverick) 2-0
Game 1 I am able to flip 2 Delvers and hold his KOTRs at bay with pyromancer tokens.
Game 2 He mulligans hard and I stifle a fetch and then wasteland him.
Out: 4 Gitaxian Probe, 1 Force of Will
In: 2 Baleful Strix 1 Umezawa’s Jitte, 1 Snuff Out, 1 Ancient Grudge
Round 6 (Daniel White on Eldrazi) 2-0
Game 1 I wasteland 2 of his lands and then cast a Pyromancer, holding up a daze for an eventual Thought-Knot Seer. Reverend Slick tokens come into play and I win in quick fashion.
Game 2 I keep a greedy hand of Force, Force, Strix, Ponder, Wasteland, Wasteland, Pyromancer. I force a Chalice and wasteland him twice. Eventually I find a Misty that can get me a volcanic and Pyromancer takes over the game after I therapy off his Reality Smashers.
Out: 4 Stifle 3 Ponder
In: 3 Cabal Therapy, 2 Baleful Strix, 1 Snuff Out, 1 Ancient Grudge
Round 7 (Josh Hastey on MUD) 2-0
Game 1 he plays a Chalice on turn 1, and a wasteland on my turn 1 sets him back, missing enough land drops to let me cast a Pyromancer and turn my dead cards into 1/1 Tokens and things to pitch to Force. I Force 2 spells and Reverend Slick tokens take over the game.
Game 2 I Pithing Needle his Grim Monolith after it is tapped for mana and wasteland him and he can’t do much. Delver beats get there.
In: 3 Cabal Therapy, 2 Pithing Needle, 1 Snuff Out, 1 Ancient Grudge
Out: 4 Stifle 3 Ponder
Round 8 (Hank Zhong on Sneak and Show) 2-1
We decide that we would rather play the match for 75 to loser and 200 to winner than split for 140 each. Game 1 he has a quick Show and Tell with Force back-up and we move to sideboard. Sneak and Show is my favorite matchup for this deck in legacy, I’ve never lost a match to it in Sanctioned Magic with Grixis Delver.
Game 2 I land a delver and am able to Pyroblast a Show and Tell and wasteland his Sol Land, after blanking a few draw steps we go to the last game of magic either of us will play in the event.
Game 3 He plays a Scalding Tarn and passes. I probe him and see Island, Show and Tell*3, and Defense Grid. I play a delver and daze the Defense Grid he casts. I am able to pyroblast a Show and Tell early, but he later resolves a Sneak Attack as he put a Defense Grid in play. I hold up 4 mana to stifle the Sneak Attack when he untaps with a Red Mana and he doesn’t find a creature anyways.
In: 3 Cabal Therapy, 3 Pyroblast, 2 Pithing Needle
Out: 4 Lightning Bolt, 2 Gurmag Angler, 2 Ponder
Overall I am happy with my performance but wish that for one of these EE events I could get 1 more win or even a draw so that I could top 8. Oh well. I think that I played well and also really enjoyed having stifle in my deck, I believe that stifle is better than the Therapy Pierce Dismember build at the moment
I would also like to thank Michael Mapson for letting me borrow Grixis delver for the event.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agrippa91
I like Spell Pierce simply because we are attacking their lands more aggressively than older G. Delver variants, and because i dont really care too much about 2 drop creatures. You dont seem to be playing True Names, so maybe Snare is best for your build, but for me, i like how evasive my threat base is that even a resolved Strix isnt all that bad. If i have True name and a DRS down, clocking you, you can have all the Strix and two drop bull shit you want, haha. I'll frequently blow my Pierce on a Swords or Push early in a game, too, to save my DRS or Delver. All in all, i think Pierce is great, even as a miser.
Your manabase, i'm not sure i would mess with it. The standard 3/2/1 Volc/USea/Trop has been tried and tested. FOr a deck that only wants to operate off 2 or 3 lands, i could see Badland blanking your Dazes too often if you get Wastelanded. Thats a scenario i dont even want to have to think about while playing an already complicated deck. Keep it all islands! Non-blue dual lands you see in decks like BUG Delver are because they play double off-color spells like Liliana and Hymn. In your deck, whats the point in having double black if you have a U Sea and Badland out? Its very rare that you will need to play 2 black spells in a turn, and really, thats what DRS is for anyways, if that fringe situation does come up. Ideally, you want a Volc, U Sea, and DRS out as your mana and thats it.
I like the direction G. Delver is going with Stifle, but i also remember hearing a tid bit that Stifle has never taken down a GP. Meaning, no GP winning deck has ever included Stifle, which is crazy to think about. Maybe Stifle is too cute? I dont know, i'm loving it, so i'm not going to change anything, but it was just interesting to hear.
EDIT: Update on my Miracles matchup. I've won my last 3 against very good online Miracle players, so i'm pretty happy where i'm at with my boarding. In one match, Null Rod was a beast shutting down Top and EE (not letting them Top every fcking turn is the #1 way to slow down that deck, IMO). In another, i finally did get a very sweet Orb play, where I'd Daze'd a turn 3 Mentor and then slammed an Orb. Granted, I had a Force and 2 more Dazes in my hand to backup the Orb, though, so maybe i would have won regardless, but it did make it easy at that point. In another unrelated game, Vortex literally brough a Miracle player from 18 to 0 on its own, minus a few fetches from him, and 1 Bolt to finish him off. I Flustered and Forced a few things to protect Vortex. So, all my Miracle tech is very different from one another, but i think they are all good.
I should hopefully have a League 5-0 list published tomorrow, that i just completed about an hour ago, on Goldfish if anyone is interested in where i'm at with the deck.
So this weekend I played a local. Been a while since I took grixis for a spin so I was a bit rusty.
Used to following list:
12 Creatures:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Sultai Scavenger
1 Vendilion Clique
30 Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Gitaxian Probe
18 Lands:
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
//Sideboard
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Bitterblossom
1 Divert
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroblast
1 Submerge
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Terminate
1 Volcanic Spray
Round 1 vs Infect: lost 0-2. Proberly could have won at least one of these rounds if I played a bit better. Game 1 I got him down to 7 life with just Shaman activations and controlling the field untill i ran out of control and died. Game 2 I hit him down to 4 and was a turn away to lethal when i messed up using Divert to counter something while I could have used Daze. Next turn I couldn't stop the pump combo becouse I had the Daze instead of Divert... That one mana would have been a difference of a turn. Ohwell.
Sideboard:
-2 Probe / -4 FoW
+1 Divert / +2 Pyroblast / +1 Terminate
Proberly should have added 1 Needle to disable the Infect lands.
Round 2 vs D&T: Lost 1-2. Started with a game-loss becouse I forgot to write down a tropical in my decklist, my bad. Both games were really fun. So game 2 I won by using Stifle to cancel Jitte equip on a Talia that gave me just the time I needed to push lethal. Game 3 I was a Bolt away to win where I needed to clear the board using Volcanic Spray + Flashback killing my own True-Name. 3 turns later I didn't find the Bolt to win and het found a Factory to hit me down.
Sideboard:
-2 Probe / -4 Fow / -4 Daze
+1 Null Rod / +1 Pithing Needle / +1 True-Name Nemesis / +1 Ancient Grudge / +1 Terminate / +1 Volcanic Spray / +2 Abrupt Decay
Tried the maximum removal minimum counter here. I usually drop the 2 Pierce and leave in all 4 FoW, not grabbing the 2 Decays form the side. Was happy with this board since it game me more options to play around Sanctum Prelate
Round 3 vs BUG-Delver/TA: Win 2-1. Really weird but fun games. Game 1 I hit 3 Wastelands in a row killing his mana and that was it. Game 2 we both hit 2 Wastelands but I end up without the mana this time. Game 3 I fly over his Angler in the end together with Shaman activations.
Sideboard:
-2 Probe / -4 FoW
+1 True-Name Nemesis / +1 Divert / 2 Pyroblast / 1 Submerge / 1 Terminate
Round 4 vs Nic-Fit (Sneak-Fit): Game 1 I can control the mana but my Turn 1 and Turn 2 Delvers don't flip for like 6 turns. They flipped just before I lost control and got lethal. Game 2 I died to a resolved Inferno Titan. Game 3 I Keep control again and win with a Delver and Scavanger trough the air.
Sideboard:
-2 Probe / -1 Bolt / -2 Wasteland
+1 Grafdigger’s Cage / +1 Pithing Needle / +1 True-Name Nemesis / +1 Terminate / 1 Bitterblossom
After game 2 I realized it was Sneak-Fit and changed -2 Push with +1 Bolt and + 1 Wasteland
Round 5 vs Miracles: Win 2-1. Looking at the life totals I wrote down I can't really recall what happen here. I either lost game 1 or lost game 2 here. With the other player dropping from 12 to 0 somehow or me dropping from 17 to 0 (or scoops incolced) and the other notes seeing the other player at 1 life and myself on 17 and someone died there. Game 3 is also a mess with notes, but I won that one since I ended up 2-1. Both games 2 and 3 I had TNN and Null Rod. Where in one game the TNN got countered, the other one it finally got benched by Terminus. Null rod got countered in one of those games.
Sideboard:
-2 Probe / -2 Wasteland / -2 Push / (-2 something, proberly -1 Bolt / -1 Daze or -2 FoW)
+1 Null Rod / +1 Pithing Needle / +1 True-Name Nemesis / +1 Bitterblossom / +2 Pyroblast / (+2 Decay)
Eneded up outside of top 8, grabbing a few booster packs based on the 9 points I gathered. Could have been better if I didnt mess up my decklist and played round 1 better i guess.
All in all I really enjoyed the list and I think it will do well in the current meta (alot of BUG variants and Miracles).
[edit: forgot 2 decays in round 5. Might as well forgot to put them in from the side all together, can't remember seeing them in either game 2 or 3]
I was recently a cohost on Ethan Gaiseki and Alex Chen's Twitch stream. We played a Grixis Delver list that had a playset of Standstill in the sideboard. Thoughts? The concept is you can always bring it on the play and it is also genereally viable to board in vs miracles regardless of play or draw. There is also a Mongoose Still Delver build that me and Ethan will be debuting at some point.
Is there an example list of that Goose + Standstill? Becouse I have a hard time seeing how that would work out. If you drop a Delver into a Standstill you're fine, becouse the Delver will flip sooner or later and provide a fast clock. If you drop Goose into Standstill you're just giving time to recoup since you won't be casting spells to hit Threshold and just be beating for 1 at the time.
On a side note: My SB plan vs BUG was actually bad. I thought I was facing Leovold BUG instead of Team America. I should not have boarded those Pyroblast, instead added 1 Needle and 1 Blossom. Pyroblast simply doesn't have a lot of targets to be justified after boarding.
We ended up only playing 2 Goose in the board vs miracles and to have even numbers in our boarding plans. You can watch a league with the deck on twitch at https://www.twitch.tv/alexjchenQuote:
Originally Posted by Draggo
It will be under past broadcasts from last night.
I took part in a 98-man tournament last Sunday with Grixis Delver, playing the standard Noah Walker's MB 60 (with Clique), and a Fatal Push replacing Dismember.
SB was:
2 Baleful Strix
2 Winter Orb
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Flusterstorm
1 Fatal Push
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Pithing Needle
1 Enginnered Explosives
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Kolaghan's Command
I knew I wanted to play a 3 color Delver deck going in, and that I wanted access to Pyroblast, so my options were limited to RUG, Grixis, or 4c Snapcaster/TNN. As high as I am on Winter Orb RUG, I just couldn't pass up on Deathrite Shaman in a larger event, and I also figured that Gurmag Angler would be better than ever after the printing of Fatal Push. So, Grixis it was.
ROUND 1: FIGHT! (Aluren)
I keep a one-lander and brainstorm lock myself on my second turn. I eventually find a second land but he's too far ahead, his second Aluren resolves and he correctly sequences his combo to play around instant speed removal.
Out: Fows, Anglers
In : Therapy, Blasts, Push, Orb, Grudge
In g2, I mull to 6 and keep a hand with 2 wastelands. He has kept a seven with 2 dual lands. Convenient.
We finally both get to play magic in g3, where I don't daze his turn 2 strix because I'm going to play YP on my turn. I daze his turn 3 agent (cascading on Dream Stalker) instead, then slam winter Orb. I push his Stalker out of the way and swarm him with elementals while orb + counterspells prevent him from resolving anything significant.
1-0 (2-1)
ROUND 2: B/R Reanimator
I am sad I have to play against a friend of mine, but I comfortably win g1 off the back of double Shaman. I feel 2-0 already as this matchup is pretty close to a bye if you win g1.
Out: Removal spells, Anglers
In: Surgicals, Strixes, Flusterstorm, Therapy, Explosives (animate dead + Blood Moon)
I mull to 5 in g2 and get stomped by protected turn 2 reanimation.
I spectacularly fail in g3 by not throwing my EE into his chancellor trigger to resolve a t1 Deathrite Shaman and just passing instead (I see the play as soon as he draws), and get punished for it as he reanimates on his second turn.
1-1 (1-2)
I am super rustled and sour over lunch, cursing myself for wasting a perfectly good Sunday (and a significant amount of money and sleep) in order to travel to a magic tournament when I can't even sequence my opening hand correctly to win an easy game. I put my chances of reaching top 8 at a solid 0 at this point, since I'll most likely have to win 5 matches in a row to get in, with the competition only getting better after each round.
ROUND 3: Elves
This is definitely one of the decks I (purposefully) neglected when building my sideboard, and simply hoped to dodge. Still, I manage to get there in g1 thanks to turn 1 Delver + triple bolt + early Angler.
Out: Dazes, 1-2 Anglers
In: Push, EE, Therapy, Needle, Command, maybe Flusterstorm (ugh, I really don't have much of a board for this MU)
I get stomped pretty hard in g2 cause he decays my early threat and I can't contain his follow-up glimpse. He eventually fizzles, but already has around 10 elves in play and has drawn a fuckton of cards. He finds Naural Order pretty soon, and my Explosives are nowhere in sight.
I start g3 with a turn 1 Delver (gets decayed soon after), then bolt his symbiote to stop the visionary engine while I set up a turn 3 Pyromancer + Therapy. I blindly hit Glimpse, then discard another Symbiote and leave him with just Natural Order and lands. I press the advantage with Pyromancer and close out the game before he can recover.
2-1 (2-1)
ROUND 4: RUG Delver
We trade bolts on Delvers, he deploys a goose and I answer with Deathrite Shaman (he groans). He taps out in an effort to grow his double goose past DRS, allowing me to comfortably resolve my Gurmag Angler (I daze his Fow). He scoops.
Out: Therapies, Probes
In: Blasts, Strixes, Flusterstorm, Push
He mulls to 5 in g2, while I open on Deathrite, Strix, 2 fetches, 2 wastelands, and another spell. Needles to say, that didn't last long.
3-1 (2-0)
ROUND 5: Storm
I deploy a turn 1 shaman and a turn 3 pyromancer (he has to discard my clique with therapy on his second turn). He pretty much has to combo out on his third turn (or risk me finding therapy/counterspells with pyromancer in play), but has to do so past a pierce/DRS activation. He correctly sequences his spells to invalidate my pierce, goes through Ad Nauseam, and hits 3 Lotus petals to reach storm 10 and Tendrils my face off.
Out: Removals, Anglers
In: Flusterstorm, EE, Surgicals, Kolaghan's Command, Therapy, 1 Pyroblast
He mulls to 5 in g2 and never gets much going
In g3, he mulls to 6, reluctantly keeps, fires a ponder off a lotus petal, and shuffles. Another free win since I have double Delver + Force + Daze in hand.
4-1 (2-1)
Luck has certainly been on my side since coming back from lunch, and, 2 wins away from top 8, I allow myself to hope as I wait for the next rounds' pairings to be posted...
only to find myself paired against one of the most successful Miracles players in the world in Angelo Cadei.
ROUND 6: Miracles
While I do a good job of preventing him from resolving CB/Mentor/Jace with Therapy and counters, I also can't get my creatures to stick in the face of redundant removal. We eventually get to the “both on topdeck mode, but the miracles player has a top in play” stage, and you know how that goes. I scoop when he resolves CB.
Out: Removal, Anglers
In: Winter Orbs, Pyroblasts, Flusterstorm, Therapy, Needle
I come out of the gates aggressively in g2 and manage to pressure his life total while also needling his top (he eventually wears it). I think I've got the equalizer in the bag as I pass with lethal damage on the board thanks to Pyromancer + tokens and an active Force of Will in hand to his 1 card, top and 4 lands, but when I force his drawstep Terminus he flips top and flusterstorms my force (I only have 2 lands in play), wiping my board and leaving me with no cards in hand. I assume that's the end of my run, but he taps out to ponder and redeploy top, and I rip an thermonuclearWinter Orb. It takes me a while, but I eventually find 3 more threats, the last of which sticks around long enough to finish the job.
With only 5 minutes left on the clock, and both of us needing a win, g3 starts at a pretty frantic pace (I decide to take 10 seconds to side an Angler back in instead of the third Therapy because of the urgency). I daze his turn 2 CB after not taking the bait of his eot plow on Delver, and eventually get aggressive with pyromancer backed by plenty of disruption. The clock soons runs out and turns are called just as I'm passing, his life total still in the mid teens range. He's desperately digging for a Terminus he can't find, while I'm holding Pyroblast + Clique in hand. Trouble is, he has a pyroblast of his own in hand, so I can't bank on Vendillion saving me. On his second to last turn, he shuffles a Ponder, draws and passes (I find out later that he has drawn Terminus off the Ponder shuffle). I crash in and pass, thinking this was my last turn and that we are going to draw. He draws and plays Jace, which I Pyroblast, and he extends the hand, visibly sour and disappointed. I assume he's not happy about the draw, but he immediately picks up the sheet and writes a 2-1 in my favor. When I can't hide my surprise, he gestures “you have lethal on board!”, exhasperated. I therefore interpret his concession as a gesture of sportmanship, and congratulate him on it. It turns out, he thought I still had 1 more turn to kill him. The confusion originates from the fact that turns were called just as I was passing, and he took some time to spin the top both at my EoT and during his turn, so that nobody really knew exactly which turn was which. I'm still not sure whether I actually had the extra turn or not, but him scooping up his cards and signing the sheet makes my win legal no matter what. I guess his plan was to Jacestorm his Terminus on top, then flip Top during my upkeep and wipe my board (with Pyroblast protection) and secure the draw, but Jace getting countered left him dead on board.
5-1 (2-1) Jesus, what a bullet dodge!
With only 1 more round to go, rankings and next round's pairings are posted on the big screen. I'm supposed to play against another friend of mine who's on Painters, and would happily draw into top 8, but our less then stellar ratings make it an extremely risky proposition. Since it would be a terrible shame if neither of us got in, we decide to play it out.
ROUND 7: Painter's Servant
In g1, I discard his Blood Moon with Cabal Therapy and close the game out quickly without him ever getting into it (multiple threats + removal + counterspells).
Out: Anglers, Vendillion, 2 more cards I'm not sure about (choosing side outs for this MU proved very difficoult)
In: Grudge, Command, Therapy, Push, Needle
g2 starts much the same way g1 did, with me preventing him from resolving any of his haymakers and applying pressure, and when he topdecks a bloodmoon to my board of Pyromancer, Shaman (with 3-4 lands in the yard), and needle on grindstone, I don't worry too much about it, thinking I have enough to push the final points of damage through. Instead, he starts casting Siamian Spirit Guides, cockblocking my whole army, and double Ensnaring Bridge. I scoop since I only have 1 artifact destruction effect left in the deck, and I used my bolts to try and clear the way for my pingers (perhaps a mistake in hindsight).
Luckily, g3 goes pretty smoothly, and I once again dispatch him quickly while countering/removing/discarding/wastelanding him out of doing anything relevant.
6-1 (2-1)
I end up second on rating, a result I am obviously thrilled about. At this point I am hoping to split the prizes and head home happy, but some of the other top8ers insist on playing it out. Against my will, I am dragged to the playing table again...
QUARTERFINALS: TNN/Noble BUG
It's my first time playing against this deck, but I figure that as long as I can get rid of his mana dorks, he will probably struggle against my wastelands/dazes with his higher mana curve. I am lucky to draw the right cards and the plan works out perfectly. I fry/counter every DRS/Heirarch he plays, when he taps for Nemesis, I Clique him eot, untap, therapy away his decays, then win the race with Shaman + Clique against his lone Nemesis.
Out: Therapies, Gitaxians (I think)
In: Pyroblasts, Push, Command, Needle (he's playing maindeck Jitte and Explosives)
G2 is even easier, as removal on dorks + wastelands lock him out of the game completely. Once again, luck was on my side, but it does seem to me that that deck (and BUG decks in general) do struggle against the efficiency of Lightning Bolt and Pyroblast.
2-0
SEMIFINALS: 4c Midrange
Inspired by Thomas Mar's winning deck from Ovino XI last year, this is basically a pile of value cards such as Strix, Snapcaster, Leovold, and a ton of removal. He has just crushed the other Grixis Delver deck in the top 8 in his quarterfinals match, and immediately dismisses my proposal to split top4. Things don't go so well for him this time though, and he quickly falls behind on board, partly due to drawing excess lands (he keeps playing them out too), and partly because he doesn't really have much of an answer to a swarm of elemental tokens, since most of his interaction consists of spot removal and x/1s. Leovold is far too late to the party, and gets contemptously bolted out of the way so that the elementals can finish the job.
Out: Fows, Therapies
In: Pyroblasts, Push, Command, Strixes (even though I am usually the aggressor, this is an extremely grindy MU where every card counts, plus he's playing Tarmogoyfs and roles can switch pretty quickly).
We trade an obscene amount of removal in the early game, but I once again pull ahead thanks to Strix + Angler. I crash in with both creatures holding double Push and another Strix in hand to his empty board and 2 cards in hand: he plays Snapcaster and I get ready to push it before blockers as soon as he targets a bolt in his yard, but he targets brainstorm instead, and doesn't fire it off immediately. I therefore let him block, thinking he's just going to chump, but the last card in his hand was another bolt. Losing the Angler like that was definitely a mistake, since he had so few answers to it. I should have realized he had another bolt in hand when he targeted BS with Snapcaster and cleared the way before blocks. Whatever, I deploy the second Strix (he brainstorms in response, but can't counter it), and start pinging for 2 a turn. I soon draw another YP and, when he topdecks and aims a Decay at it with only one more card in hand, I start counting and realize that if I fire off all my spells in response (push, pierce, daze), I'll have lethal next turn. I therefore Push my own Pyromancer with Decay on the stack, then Pierce and Daze my own spells. The last card in his hand was a Tarmogoyf, which he deploys, buying himself 1 more turn (he obviously gets super salty/condescending and ridicules my play, but I still think it was a perfectly defensible choice as it gave me a good chance of cutting a turn off the clock when his only hope was to topdeck a -1-1 effect, for which I didn't have any effective counters at that point). So I untap, take him off doule black with the Wasteland I had brainstormed on top of my deck (turns out that sealed the game as his only out was a 1-of Marsh Casualties), and attack him down to 1. I sweat one more draw, but it's “only” a Forked Bolt. That's still 4 1/1s too many for him to survive.
2-0
FINALS: Sneak and Show
I get informed beforehand that my opponent will not consider a split, but at this point I don't mind playing it out anyway, since I don't know if I'll ever have the chance to win a large tournament again, and besides, I feel pretty confident in this match-up.
I mull a landless 7 and open on Probe (seeing lands, fluster, Snt, Petal) → DRS. He lands and passes, so I risk tapping out for a t2 Pyromancer after a Ponder. He drops another land, ponders (opting to shuffle), and passes. I untap and fire off a Brainstorm, looking for Cabal Therapy, but only manage to find a Force of Will. I start the beats. He untaps, and finally makes a move: Petal (resolves), Petal (resolves), Sneak Attack. Now, he's only drawn 3 cards since I've seen his hand, and 2 of those were Petal and Sneak Attack. He's also shuffled his Ponder, so the likelihood of him having drawn a fatty are quite low at this point: besides, the two petals ensure that he can resolve his spell through my Force of Will (due to flusterstorm) if he really wishes to. I let it resolve, and save my Force of Will for any cantrips he might fire off. I add a Gurmag Angler to the board and kill him in 2 turns, without him ever casting another spell. Unticlimactic, but I'll take it...
Out: removals (I decide to take the Lavamancer risk), Gurmag, 1x Pyromancer
In: Pyroblasts, Surgicals, Flusterstorm, Needle, 1x Orb, Cabal Therapy
I open on a killer 7 (Sea, Delver, Flusterstorm, Fow, Surgical, and cantrips) while he mulls to 6. I can taste victory already. He plays a land and durdles. I draw a Wasteland and go Sea, Delver. He durdles again. Delver flips on Ponder (he groans), I add Wasteland and pass. He plays an Ancient Tomb and casts Show and Tell with a mana open. I flusterstorm. He flusterstorms my Flusterstorm. I have obviously not practiced Flusterstorm on Flusterstorm scenarios enough, cause I don't realize that my Flusterstorm isn't a Spell Pierce, and that one of my copies is only being targeted by one of his copies, so that I could tap the Wasteland to effectively Daze his SnT. Being the idiot that I am, I move my Flusterstorm to the yard and force his SnT instead (to my excuse, I had been playing magic for about 10 hours already). Whatever, the spell is countered. I untap, wasteland him, and extract his Show and Tell, ripping another copy out of his hand, and leaving him with just 2 basic islands in play, and Sneak Attack + Emrakul in hand (he's down to 2 Islands and I have just cantripped into a Daze). I also get to take a look at his deck and see that he has only brought in Blood Moons, Flusterstorms and Blast effects, but no Grim Lavamancer/Pyroclasm effects, which is great for me in this spot. I add a Deathrite to the clock and feel pretty confident that I can kill him before he gets to find enough mana to resolve and activate his Sneak Attack. On my eot, before what will be his last turn, he plays Intuition. I completely forget that his deck plays Lotus Petal, and decide not to daze, thinking I will daze the Sneak Attack instead (punt #2). He gets a sol land, untaps, and draws. He slow rolls it for the crowd, but it's not a petal. He extends the hand.
2-0
Considering I wasn't really expecting, or even hoping to get into top8, I am still in disbelief about the victory. Even though I had won some 20ish people locals before, and had a few decent results in bigger events, this was by far my greatest MTG achievement ever since I got back into the game a few years ago, or for that matter, since my older brother introduced me to it back around 1997.
Other than the huge satisfaction, I also went home with a brand new, complete BRg Reanimator deck, with which I've already 5-0'd my fnm local two days ago :D
Thanks for reading the report, I hope you enjoyed it. I look forward to any questions/comments you might have.
Hey guys, I'm a relatively inexperienced Grixis Delver player. I'm currently on the 2 therapy MB list. Even though lots of people are switching to stifle, I'm still worried about running into Dnt and Eldrazi decks, where it's lack luster at best (I would guess), as well as sort of Anti synergy with yp. With this being said, how can I use cabal therapy to.my advantage in fair matches? Can I keep them in? I know they're mostly for combo. Kind of an open.ended question, but just looking for advice.
Thanks!
I like Therapy in both the match-ups you listed. Against D&T, you get to hit their Batterskull when they tutor it up with Stoneforge (if they didnt happen to end of turn play SFM off a Vial) and Stifle is basically worthless against Eldrazi, so you just hope to get a good Probe early and take their Thought Knot Seers or Smashers.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdventuresWithTarmo
I agree that both matchups are tough for Delver, but are totally winnable, too! Both of those decks are susceptible to well timed Daze's and can be tempo'd out if you get lucky.
The main applications for Cabal Therapy in fair matchups, such as Miracles, Czech Pile, Delver mirrors, etc., is to get card advantage or to strip your opponent of key cards in their hand, attempting to overpower them. Cabal Therapy in combination with Gitataxian Probe or Young Pyromancer can lead to producing Card advantage if you are able to hit 2 or more cards with it. That being said, casting Cabal Therapy blind is a skill that, in order to play this deck well, you must develop.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdventuresWithTarmo
As for sideboarding with Cabal Therapy, I generally start shaving them in post board games against most fair decks to make room for more higher-impact sideboard cards. The exception to this is when I play against any fair deck playing Stoneforge Mystic, because having them walk straight into a Cabal Therapy is very tempo positive for you when you have a threat in play.
As for being afraid of Death&Taxes and Eldrazi, I wouldn't be too concerned with either. More decks with greedy extremely greedy manabases are showing up these days as Eldrazi recedes and DnT stays pretty neutral. My personal opinion is that moving to Stifle is what you want to be doing currently, due to its ability to really punish greedy manabases that are looking to cast 3-4 mana spells in addition to Wasteland.
An additional note, aside from metagaming, if you are newer to Legacy and looking to play Grixis Delver, I recommend the Stifle build because Cabal Therapy has an extremely steep learning curve in comparison to Stifle. If you know what you're doing in Legacy the Cabal Therapy version can be very rewarding.