[Deck] 43 Lands

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05-02-2011, 11:18 AM
rocketrae21

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheKingslayer

Can lands get no love?

Lands doesn't get no love because its a complicated and expensive deck and players don't want to play it. I personally love playing it, but its not strong in the meta right now (at least mine). Even with Mental Misstep I will be playing Lands in Providence and keeping my 1cc count the same.
I have had countless matches where the opponent won't counter a turn 1 exploration because they "aren't worried about it." Plus the deck runs enough tutors and 1cc spells to get through 4 mental missteps.
05-02-2011, 01:25 PM
Tim the Enchanter

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketrae21

I have had countless matches where the opponent won't counter a turn 1 exploration because they "aren't worried about it." Plus the deck runs enough tutors and 1cc spells to get through 4 mental missteps.

Really? I've never had that luxury. I have had my opponent pitch Big Jace to Force Exploration before.
05-02-2011, 01:52 PM
mchainmail

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketrae21

Lands doesn't get no love because its a complicated and expensive deck and players don't want to play it. I personally love playing it, but its not strong in the meta right now (at least mine). Even with Mental Misstep I will be playing Lands in Providence and keeping my 1cc count the same.
I have had countless matches where the opponent won't counter a turn 1 exploration because they "aren't worried about it." Plus the deck runs enough tutors and 1cc spells to get through 4 mental missteps.

I actually think that's what a decent amount of decks *should* be letting Exploration resolve, and just forcing either a timely Life from the Loam or an E-tutor / tutored up spell.
05-02-2011, 06:31 PM
rocketrae21

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchainmail

I actually think that's what a decent amount of decks *should* be letting Exploration resolve, and just forcing either a timely Life from the Loam or an E-tutor / tutored up spell.

Oh I completely agree with you. The thing is Mental Misstep will obviously shut down our one drops, but the thing is a good player will wait for the more important one drop, such as E Tutor. Also I feel Mental Misstep is very hyped up right now and for a while it will be played a lot, but then people will adapt or get sick of the card and its "dominance" will decrease.
05-02-2011, 08:32 PM
Fuzzy

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Right now I think Lands is well positioned BECAUSE Misstep, not the inverse.

People will play less one-drops, so the format will become even slower. When playing a deck with Wastelands and Rishadan Ports and not really worried about casting some red dudes, it looks perfect, since in a long-game Lands ends with a huge advantage over the field.

And, with the Misstep Menace, combo becomes a worst choice because the entire format has now some way to defeat it. If everyone really keep playing 4 Missteps, i wouldn't sleeve a TES to play.
05-02-2011, 09:11 PM
Tammit67

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

And, with the Misstep Menace, combo becomes a worst choice because the entire format has now some way to defeat it. If everyone really keep playing 4 Missteps, i wouldn't sleeve a TES to play.

Well, why not? A deck like Team America will certainly be more menacing with mistep, but decks without other viable ways of interacting will face the same problems as decks with only force as a meaningful barrier: Chant, duress, thoughtseize. I don't think mistep will stop combo, but you might be right that fewer people will play combo instead of learning how to play around it.

As for lands... I predict Lands remaining were it is in the meta. Misstep lets people counter tutor or exploration or what have you. Certainly the merfolk matchup will become more even if they can make it harder to hit that special artifact in time. But a deck like CB top? You rarely have to rely exclusvely on E tutor to find EE, and honestly if they don't have CB @2, the incremental advantage of lands versus these slower decks is enough if Jace can be kept in check.
05-02-2011, 10:36 PM
rocketrae21

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Well do you all think Lands wants to run Mental Misstep now as well? I wasn't thinking as a main board slot, but I'm really considering running 3 in the side for Providence.
05-03-2011, 02:39 AM
ESG

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketrae21

Well do you all think Lands wants to run Mental Misstep now as well? I wasn't thinking as a main board slot, but I'm really considering running 3 in the side for Providence.

No. Why waste slots like that? Do you have any way to tutor for them? If not, are you going to mull to them? Think this through.
05-03-2011, 11:29 AM
rocketrae21

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESG

No. Why waste slots like that? Do you have any way to tutor for them? If not, are you going to mull to them? Think this through.

Yes but most boards also play Krosan Grips and Confidants without having a way to reoccur them from a dredge. And before you say people run Volrath's Stronghold, not everyone does in the main because if you dredge it your opponent knows you must play creatures and will leave in Swords.
05-03-2011, 02:48 PM
kjeldoran

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

now with MM control and agro-control destroy this enlightendland.deck, combo idem.. so what do u think about a stompy version with sphere of resistance, city of traitors or ancient tomb main deck and the retun of intuition?? any suggestion about list?
05-03-2011, 03:09 PM
mchainmail

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjeldoran

now with MM control and agro-control destroy this enlightendland.deck, combo idem.. so what do u think about a stompy version with sphere of resistance, city of traitors or ancient tomb main deck and the retun of intuition?? any suggestion about list?

Has anyone *actually* tested against MM?

I really, really hate conjecture on a future format unless someone has gotten in enough games.

*if* people are cutting Spell Pierce, then Intuition is a lot better.
05-03-2011, 03:56 PM
dahcmai

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

I did a little testing since I was thinking Merfolk would rise again with misstep making TES even more of a challenge to play and Merfolk gains a ton because of it. Merfolk was about the only deck I think besides Team America that will end up playing it as a staple. I think the rest of the decks will fall off a bit once they see it's not an "omg, I win" card.

Anyway, It sucks getting Manabond countered and I think I might just add a Burgeoning to counteract that a bit. Sure, it's one more 1cc spell, but that's ok when you are increasing the redundancy. Kind of like going overboard on non-basics when people start playing wastelands heavy. It sucks, but it's far from end of the world.

Team America is a serious bitch all of a sudden though. Them getting to counter your Exploration, Manabond, etc is quite annoying when it doesn't down them a card. Maze is still what you end up needing multiples so you can drag your tail across and get out of the onslaught, but it's worse now. Merfolk still falls over to Tabernacle which is sure nice. If you have Crop Rotation in your lists, ditch it now. Anyone with half a brain should be killing a Crop Rotation if they know you're just going to dump a Tabernacle on them and they fall over and half die to it and it's not worth Sinkholing yourself for fun.

I really don't expect many other decks to be packing MM once the hype dies a little. Folk and Team America are going to enjoy the ride for a bit though so you might as well expect it out of those two. I'm surely not going to put MM in lands by the way. Too many spells a bad lands deck you make.
05-03-2011, 04:07 PM
mchainmail

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahcmai

I did a little testing since I was thinking Merfolk would rise again with misstep making TES even more of a challenge to play and Merfolk gains a ton because of it. Merfolk was about the only deck I think besides Team America that will end up playing it as a staple. I think the rest of the decks will fall off a bit once they see it's not an "omg, I win" card.

Anyway, It sucks getting Manabond countered and I think I might just add a Burgeoning to counteract that a bit. Sure, it's one more 1cc spell, but that's ok when you are increasing the redundancy. Kind of like going overboard on non-basics when people start playing wastelands heavy. It sucks, but it's far from end of the world.

Team America is a serious bitch all of a sudden though. Them getting to counter your Exploration, Manabond, etc is quite annoying when it doesn't down them a card. Maze is still what you end up needing multiples so you can drag your tail across and get out of the onslaught, but it's worse now. Merfolk still falls over to Tabernacle which is sure nice. If you have Crop Rotation in your lists, ditch it now. Anyone with half a brain should be killing a Crop Rotation if they know you're just going to dump a Tabernacle on them and they fall over and half die to it and it's not worth Sinkholing yourself for fun.

I really don't expect many other decks to be packing MM once the hype dies a little. Folk and Team America are going to enjoy the ride for a bit though so you might as well expect it out of those two. I'm surely not going to put MM in lands by the way. Too many spells a bad lands deck you make.

We also have Horn of Greed as an option, or doing something weird and running stompy lands, Chalice of the Void and Oracle of Mul Daya...
05-03-2011, 08:47 PM
Barbwire

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Right now I think Lands is well positioned BECAUSE Misstep, not the inverse.

People will play less one-drops, so the format will become even slower. When playing a deck with Wastelands and Rishadan Ports and not really worried about casting some red dudes, it looks perfect, since in a long-game Lands ends with a huge advantage over the field.

And, with the Misstep Menace, combo becomes a worst choice because the entire format has now some way to defeat it. If everyone really keep playing 4 Missteps, i wouldn't sleeve a TES to play.

I think this statement may end up being true, but like any other "eye candy" card everybody will have some sitting somehwere, either main or board. After the initial hubbub and mass hysteria over it I think it will be a stronger format for Lands for the reasons you've given. But only after everybody plays there fill of MH.Probably be at least another 2-3 months.

For now I've gone back to TezzTopCB. Hopefully this phase will end quickly...
05-21-2011, 04:36 PM
GoldenCid

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchainmail

Has anyone *actually* tested against MM?

I really, really hate conjecture on a future format unless someone has gotten in enough games.

*if* people are cutting Spell Pierce, then Intuition is a lot better.

I already tested agiainst mental misstep. Running explo + manabond seems like we'll be destroyed by MM but i was that bad. To face this card i paradojically wanted to increase the cmc1 spell count but then i tried Eternal witness for recursion and it was the way. That and the power of keeping loam and intuition to control the table. I'm glad at this point. If you like i post my list for discussion:

/ Lands
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
1 [JU] Riftstone Portal
1 [SOM] Forest (1)
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [DK] Maze of Ith
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [FUT] Tolaria West
3 [R] Tropical Island
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
1 [R] Bayou
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold

// Creatures
1 [FD] Eternal Witness

// Spells
1 [IA] Zuran Orb
4 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [TE] Intuition
4 [US] Exploration
4 [EX] Manabond
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [MR] Mindslaver
1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
3 [SH] Mox Diamond

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 [MI] Cursed Totem

Comments are welcomed!
05-21-2011, 06:36 PM
Sloshthedark

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

what about SB: Beast Within? destroys whatever is necessary and that 3/3 is mostly harmless...
05-21-2011, 07:18 PM
GoldenCid

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

what about SB: Beast Within? destroys whatever is necessary and that 3/3 is mostly harmless...

Replacing grip?
05-21-2011, 07:49 PM
Barbwire

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

The Point of Kgrip is to have a defense against Counterbalance, if you choose Beast Within instead you'll find a regular counterspell will stop you......
05-22-2011, 12:02 PM
mchainmail

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbwire

The Point of Kgrip is to have a defense against Counterbalance, if you choose Beast Within instead you'll find a regular counterspell will stop you......

No, the point of K-grip is to destroy Pithing Needle on Academy Ruins (and sometimes Leyline of the Void)

If they don't have Needle, you can just lock most CB players out fairly easily.
05-22-2011, 04:11 PM
Sloshthedark

Re: [Deck] 43 Lands

I tested it just lightly than played 1 tournament, my list is very different from most of you, but I liked it, its a universal solution for any permanent, and has synergy with mana the denial plan - I play 4 instead of grips and think its a good card to consider

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