Yeh, but you're not trying to MILL them with a Pox deck. I think there's a lot that can go wrong with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pltnmngl
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Yeh, but you're not trying to MILL them with a Pox deck. I think there's a lot that can go wrong with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pltnmngl
I think thats the whole point of the card, either you use it on yourself to draw threats or use it for kill. Not sure if it would be worth playing. It does give you advantage but there isnt really much room to take things out.
Well, I personally think sign in blood represents at the very least a step up from night's whisper. However, when was night's whisper ever needed in Pox?
Have you guys tried the Helm/Leyline kill? Leyline is good on its own, and a combo finisher seems appropriate for this deck.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
Okay, here's why: Leyline is good on it's own AS A SIDEBOARD CARD.
Also, combo kills are just as beautiful as goldfishing with a nihilith against an empty board/hand for some people...
:eyebrow: Painter/Grindstone have no use on their own. Leyline at least hoses Ichorid and Loam, and gives Threshold decks problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowvamp
Well then, you have just proven why Leyline combo is better than Painter/Grindstone for pox.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
Feel free to run leyline as a SB card, but trying to turn that into a combo win just doesn't make sense...
A normal black disruption would seem more fitting to rock a combo like that, with confidants for draw and such. I find combos like that can be pretty inconsistent too.. someone disenchants your Void or counters and its like F', match over. Like putting too many eggs in one basket to me
Well I'm just saying it's a potential third turn kill with a Ritual (or first turn with two) and you could even add redundancy with Planar Void the same way Stifle/Nought plays Trickbind.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowvamp
Eliminating creatures seems sensible when you're trying to create disparity with Smallpox, etc...
Sample:
3 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Planar Void
3 Beseech the Queen
2 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
4 Innocent Blood
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Powder Keg
4 Wasteland
18 Swamp
The combo doesn't work with planar void cause it is a triggered effect and not a replacement.
When I started to play pox years ago, I learned one thing : you need to calculated in the way pox work, that mean on a base of three. Anything that cost 4 to 6 mana mean that you'll loose 2 lands in the pox. Dark Ritual can help but you can't always count on it so you need to calculated based on the fact that you'll need to hard cast those top deck cards.
Even with the new changes and the printing of small pox, I always try to calculate like this. IMHO, small pox became pox 5-8 in my deck and a uber sink hole. So, since I'm still playing the old one, I don't want my spell to cost more than 3 (that why I like Tombstalker and P.Totem so much cause they fit for the deck) Personally, a killing condition that cost 5 plus one that cost 4 (cause you need to calculate that you won't always have LotV in your starting hand) simply can't make the cut in this deck.
The combo is good but in a deck more like MBC where you have access to an excellent mana producer, cabal coffer.
You know, at first I thought that that combo would be complete garbage here but I've changed my mind. Leyline helps against some tough matchups (ichorid, loam bs) while being randomly good elsewhere. I would def test out the combo kill, and even if it sucks leaving in leyline maindeck might be a solid idea.
If you do the math, you run 4 Leyline of the Void. That's 4/60 cards = 1/20 cards in the deck, after 7-8 cards that gives you (1/20+1/19+1/18..etc) like 40-50% chance of drawing it. If you're forced to Mul that brings the odds down slightly less but you have a better total chance of getting it, but at the loss of a card :[Quote:
Originally Posted by clavio
The same probability goes for drawing a dark ritual, and/or Helm (much less for helm) within the first 1-3 turns.
Decks like that seem pretty inconsistent, any deck after game one that says "This is how I win" is in danger of getting shut down. I could be totally wrong, its a pretty sweet combo I'll say that much. But yea... like I said before I wouldn't even really use Pox or smallpox 'cause you have no discard outlets to benefit it and what are you gonna do, discard your helm, crucible, land.. er w/e?
4/60 = 1/15...
Edit- also if you drew a card from a 60 card deck, you would then have 59. 4/59 does not equal 1/19.
Ok, the combo sucks here but leyline is still really good in some bad matchups.
Did you see this freaking new decklist?
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27730
The player became 3 of 78 with this list of absolute randomness xD
WTF?!
creature [1]
1 Nether Spirit
instant [2]
2 Crop Rotation
sorcery [23]
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Life from the Loam
3 Living Wish
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Thoughtseize
enchantment [5]
2 Contamination
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Still Life
artifact [6]
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
land [24]
4 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Cabal Pit
1 Forest
1 Maze of Ith
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Riftstone Portal
3 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
61 cards
Sideboard:
1 Nether Spirit
1 Tombstalker
3 Choke
2 Engineered Plague
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
I just can't understand, why he was so successful... Any thoughts? oO
Blind luck, bad opponents, and amazing matchups ftw
Agreed. In fact, I believe I saw this list along time ago and my thoughts went like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by beastman
Is this real?
Wow, large tourney nice.
What the hell, still life, crop rotation, living wish, and fetches with a pox shell?
It must be at least okay.
*comes back after first match on mws with this pile of crap*
This is even worse than when I tried to make Dovescape work with affinity...
Interesting.. use of living wish, maze of ith, and ..zomg Riftstone portal, who woulda known ^.^ Loam and crucible woulda fixed mana base, he deffinitely must've gone for stall using deed & pulse and kill with contamination lock, very strange deck though, kriky so many 1, 2-of's I can't believe he pulled it off lol, still Life seriously?? heh
Where Pox usually comes off as somewhat of a mix of aggro & control, this deck is like 99% control
This deck actually has a lot of neat ideas. Drawing more than one tombstalker (or just one too early for that matter) can suck. Deed is really good esp if you arent playing the rack (Jitte + Bitterblossom = gg for pox). The fact that nether spirit is his one creature is really good. Still life is kind of WTF (esp w/ contamination?). I guess its better than chimeric idol?
I've messed with a green splash, but at that point Train Wreck is just better.
EDIT: Umm, apparently I did this prematurely, but as I'm out of top-8 contention for the Source Tourney, I owe you guys a list. Behold, SnowPox:
I missed the Top 8 in the (9th) Salvation Legacy tourney very narrowly. My losses were to the 1 & 2 seeds (Death & Taxes and mono-black Eva with Top).Code:// Lands
19 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory
// Creatures
3 Tombstalker
2 Necroplasm
2 Shriekmaw
// Spells
3 Withering Wisps
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
3 Pox
3 Phyrexian Arena
1 Culling Scales
2 Syphon Life
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Phyrexian Totem
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Culling Scales
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 Big Game Hunter
SB: 4 Extirpate
I lost 1-2 in almost every game I played in the Source Tourney, though, b/c imo the Source Legacy Meta is far superior. Plus, I got paired against really good players playing really bad matchups. Oh, also, I completely suck at playing Magic. I made more play errors in the 6 rounds of both of those tournaments than anyone who doesn't hara-kiri themselves deserved to make...
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~
The general idea of the deck was to include Chalice maindeck as a way to counteract 1- (and to a lesser extent 2-) drops that define Legacy. Four, of course, to get one in the opening hand.
This meant, of course, that I had to eliminate the one-drops in my own deck to make the Chalices one-sided. Dark Ritual is the only 1-drop in the deck.
(That, in turn, means that this particular deck configuration has an AMAZING matchup vs. Countertop. Amazing. I beat Countertop every time in the two tourneys, and can't remember the last time I lost a set, only dropping a single game here & there.)
Creatures: Necroplasm -- I've been running him for quite a while, even pre-Chalice. He draws a lot of attention, can do a lot of tricks, and he recurs himself if you need a critter for the low low price of Dredge 2. Sometimes you can even get 9 damage out of him, but don't count on it. Another good trick is to bait an opponent to block with a man-land then drop him post combat. Shriekmaw -- the only targeted removal in the deck. Who doesn't love Terror plus Fear-Legs? Tombstalker -- of course. I don't think anybody disputes him.
Spells: Most of these are pretty standard, so I'll just detail the ones that aren't.
Culling Scales -- AMAZING, even if it just delays the opponent from dropping their stuff. Only one of main, though, b/c of the Chalices.
Phy. Arena -- Very good also. Not the worst top deck in the world. Arena has killed me on occasion, but I'd have died earlier if I'd been getting half as many cards.
...and now the namesake for the deck, Withering Wisps -- It's relatively mana-expensive, it's slow, it hurts you, too... But jeez if the cards run even slightly in your favor, it is an absolute game-winner, period. I readily admit that it looks like the wrong card, but I love it deeply. Tricks with Wisps+Factory make me smile. It's not targeted. It buys time when they drop a fatty; it makes your fatties kill much faster. It ends the game.
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~
Back to matchups, even though SnowPox trashes Countertop, it has a number of less-favorable matchups. Ready? Decks with 12+ counters, decks that bring tons of good (ie, non-vanilla) creatures, decks that attack your hand, decks that attack your land. Basically, the "meta-mirror" -- you're attacking their hand & land -- if they're doing the same, including packing a zillion counters, you need a good hand and a lot of knowledge & playskill (as I've mentioned, I lack the last entirely -- ie, I kept in Chalice vs. UW Stompy).
Chalice maindecked makes some traditionally bad matchups fairly good, or at least prevents them from sliding into 'unwinnable' territory: Burn, Zoo, Goblins are all slowed down enough by a Chalice at 1 that the Pox shell can keep up. Basically, Chalice compliments Hymn in proactive resource denial.
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~
I encourage better players than I to build this deck and to see what damage they can do with it. Even I was able to get 1/3 against the best of the field.