[Deck] Belcher

Seething song gives you RRRRR. play belcher with RRRR, pitch ssg, lay down petal, use floating R from song, sac petal, win

Assuming your opponent has no Force, and no Discard, the difference seems almost marginal. However, it should be noted that you couldn't cast a topdecked Seething Song if you cast Belcher on turn one, and if for some reason your opponent has maindeck Pithing Needle or some other way to deal with Belcher on turn one, you'd be walking right into it. What advantage do you have to casting Belcher on turn one anyway, other than to make Force of Will the only answer for it, and/or play around discard?

Edit: I read that post like five times and thought that hand could make seven mana, but went with the original post... I guess I'm talking about a hypothetical hand where you could cast Belcher and had two mana on your next turn, then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joe_C

Seething song gives you RRRRR. play belcher with RRRR, pitch ssg, lay down petal, use floating R from song, sac petal, win

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Lol i didnt see that. Thanks for correcting me. How about this instead:

Lotus
Mox
Pyretic
Tinder
ESG
SSG
Belcher.

So Mox imprint ESG then cast Tinder Wall, sac Wall for Pyretic, then remove ESG then Belcher. So you have two mana sources left on your next turn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joe_C

Seething song gives you RRRRR. play belcher with RRRR, pitch ssg, lay down petal, use floating R from song, sac petal, win

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Lol i didnt see that. Thanks for correcting me. How about this instead:

Lotus
Mox
Pyretic
Tinder
ESG
SSG
Belcher.

So Mox imprint ESG then cast Tinder Wall, sac Wall for Pyretic, then remove ESG then Belcher. So you have two mana sources left on your next turn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Namida

Assuming your opponent has no Force, and no Discard, the difference seems almost marginal. However, it should be noted that you couldn't cast a topdecked Seething Song if you cast Belcher on turn one, and if for some reason your opponent has maindeck Pithing Needle or some other way to deal with Belcher on turn one, you'd be walking right into it. What advantage do you have to casting Belcher on turn one anyway, other than to make Force of Will the only answer for it, and/or play around discard?

Edit: I read that post like five times and thought that hand could make seven mana, but went with the original post... I guess I'm talking about a hypothetical hand where you could cast Belcher and had two mana on your next turn, then.

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Yes you got it. I dont have the deck with me at the moment so its difficult to make these simulations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Namida

Assuming your opponent has no Force, and no Discard, the difference seems almost marginal. However, it should be noted that you couldn't cast a topdecked Seething Song if you cast Belcher on turn one, and if for some reason your opponent has maindeck Pithing Needle or some other way to deal with Belcher on turn one, you'd be walking right into it. What advantage do you have to casting Belcher on turn one anyway, other than to make Force of Will the only answer for it, and/or play around discard?

Edit: I read that post like five times and thought that hand could make seven mana, but went with the original post... I guess I'm talking about a hypothetical hand where you could cast Belcher and had two mana on your next turn, then.

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Yes you got it. I dont have the deck with me at the moment so its difficult to make these simulations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Namida

Assuming your opponent has no Force, and no Discard, the difference seems almost marginal. However, it should be noted that you couldn't cast a topdecked Seething Song if you cast Belcher on turn one, and if for some reason your opponent has maindeck Pithing Needle or some other way to deal with Belcher on turn one, you'd be walking right into it. What advantage do you have to casting Belcher on turn one anyway, other than to make Force of Will the only answer for it, and/or play around discard?

Edit: I read that post like five times and thought that hand could make seven mana, but went with the original post... I guess I'm talking about a hypothetical hand where you could cast Belcher and had two mana on your next turn, then.

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Anyway thats true whats the point of casting it when you wont explode? SO the question now is will you or will you not cast?

Well, your hypothetical situation is rarely realistic, unless you've been scouting.

If I am completely blind to what my opponent is playing, I would cast the Charbelcher. Force of Will/Mindbreak Trap are the only things that can prevent the Belcher from resolving on the play, and only one of those actually happens. Discard on your opponent's first turn is also something you want to avoid.

I would always, always, always cast belcher on turn 1. So many things can happen in the intervening turn to let your opponent put up some shields. Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, Thoughtseize, Chalice, Brainstorm into extra force, trinisphere stifle mana up, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

One thing is pretty clear about this deck: You will draw mana. Fully 45 of the 56 non-cantrip cards in the standard R/G lists are mana--that means that over 75% of the time, your next card will give you a mana. I regularly keep belcher hands that require a topdecked mana source, because it's a lot harder to kill a belcher than it is to stop it, in a lot of situations.

Also, remember to husband your mana. Try to cast the most expensive spells first, and don't get greedy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

I would always, always, always cast belcher on turn 1. So many things can happen in the intervening turn to let your opponent put up some shields. Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, Thoughtseize, Chalice, Brainstorm into extra force, trinisphere stifle mana up, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

One thing is pretty clear about this deck: You will draw mana. Fully 45 of the 56 non-cantrip cards in the standard R/G lists are mana--that means that over 75% of the time, your next card will give you a mana. I regularly keep belcher hands that require a topdecked mana source, because it's a lot harder to kill a belcher than it is to stop it, in a lot of situations.

Also, remember to husband your mana. Try to cast the most expensive spells first, and don't get greedy.

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Noted. Answers my question

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozymandias

I would always, always, always cast belcher on turn 1. So many things can happen in the intervening turn to let your opponent put up some shields. Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, Thoughtseize, Chalice, Brainstorm into extra force, trinisphere stifle mana up, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

One thing is pretty clear about this deck: You will draw mana. Fully 45 of the 56 non-cantrip cards in the standard R/G lists are mana--that means that over 75% of the time, your next card will give you a mana. I regularly keep belcher hands that require a topdecked mana source, because it's a lot harder to kill a belcher than it is to stop it, in a lot of situations.

Also, remember to husband your mana. Try to cast the most expensive spells first, and don't get greedy.

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Noted. Answers my question

I agree, I always cast the Belcher especially in a situation as you describe. With two sources up you have ever ritual except seething song, four LED's and a chrome mox+ one turn. That's better than turn one lackey as far as I am concerned. Something like almost 46 outs to go off either that turn or the next one. Turn three kills are fine with me:)

Why do you keep petal in your hand instead of 2 spirit guide?

Unlike petal the spirit guides can't be countered on t2 and can't be taken out by duress.

I would run petal out, and leave it uncracked, actually.

Always run your artifact mana out there in case of discard. There's no point not to; if they have artifact destruction turn 1, what will they aim it at? Charbelcher if they're a good player. If they're a bad player, they aim it at the petal lol and a topdecked LED wrecks them. But really this deck aims to win as fast as possible so casting charbelcher turn 1 is ALWAYS the right play. Force can blow you out sure but they only have a 40% chance of having it. When they get a blue mana, they have brainstorm or ponder or stifle which hurts you a lot. Along with spell pierce and daze.

There seems to be some confusion as to what comes out when 7x sideboard cards go in from the last page. Why doesn't everyone just post what they take out as this seems to be the only real issue with the deck that hasn't yet been resolved.

Seems to me like 4x Seething Song, 3x Pyretic Ritual is a good option but some people seem to disagree. I could definitely see cutting other stuff especially Manamorphose as it doesn't give +1 mana like the other Rituals but sometimes you need it to put on Mox or cast Walls.

I usually cut Seething X4, Land Grant X1, Chrome Mox X1. The first six is pretty easy, the seventh is usually a coin flip between a Manamorphose, or a Desperate Ritual. I think Seething is too hard to get off against control. I want to avoid mulling as much as possible game two and three so I cut the Mox and Grant cause two in the opening hand is hell. I'm no expert on this list but that seems to work best for me.

My sideboarding vs the only blue-match up.

Out

2 Morphose
2 Seething Song
2 Pyretic Ritual
1 random $h!t

In

3 Xantid (helped. for details, see my report above)
4 Guttural

Hello all,

I've written an article about Belcher, but I wanted an experienced pilot to check the article over before it is published. Ideally, I'm looking for someone with a solid tournament track record and 2+ years playing the deck.

Any volunteers?

-Silent Requiem

SBing out rituals before manamorphose is terrible, Seething Song is the only ritual I'd SB because a counter on Seething Song is usually GG compared to a counter on Pyretic Ritual.

Actually, Manamorphose is terrible in general, I don't understand why any one would play Manamorphose over Grim Monolith because the deck really doesn't need color-fixing and relying on Manamorphose to draw into mana backfires far more often than it's worth.