So does Mortarpod + baleful strix. And it's tutorable via stoneforge mystic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Superior
Oh, and did I mention that Mortarpod costs 10 cents?
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So does Mortarpod + baleful strix. And it's tutorable via stoneforge mystic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Superior
Oh, and did I mention that Mortarpod costs 10 cents?
You can tap Karakas for mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kontrol Issues
If Deathrite Shaman had one thoughness like Bob, i would definitely consider playing Mortarpod.
Mortarpod with Baleful Strix is cute and all but i feel like it costs too much mana...
The very earliest you could get this online would be t4. That is likely two swings too late to be relevant against Emrakul. Not to mention the second creature that kills you while you are looking for another Strix.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckme10
Either way, if Show and Tell resolves, you are probably in a bad spot. Spell Pierce and Thoughtseize should have been doing work long before you'd hope to need Karakas anyways.
Because it isn't playable.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckme10
And just throwing it out there, but I don't see any reason not to discuss Deathblade here as well as straight Esper. The decks are extremely close in construction and play (and most likely straight Esper is just worse for the time being anyways). I could use some discussion about Baleful Strix verses Dark Confidant though. Despite Bob having a much higher powerful level, Strix has a lot of points in its favor, especially if you are trying to MD FoW.
I know that Mortarpod sounds too cute, but I wouldn't dismiss it instantly. It has has some interesting applications both with Lingering Souls and Baleful Strix, it's tutorable removal that deals with a lot of nasty creatures and it can finish the opponent at an even boardstate. I could see it as a sideboard option for few metas. Problem though: A lot of times, even against a deck where it will be a good card to board in, just grabbing Jitte and / or Batterskull will be the better play.
Baleful Strix by itself is great at dealing with attacking creatures. Jitte can handle Bob, Shaman, and the rest much more efficiently.
So I feel pretty comfortable in most of my match-ups, but punishing jund is just a nightmare. Does anyone have any suggestions as to helping that? I'm still running Vidi's GP list (and liking it a lot), with the following sideboard:
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
1 Duress
2 Geist of St. Traft
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Perish
1 Disenchant
My plan yesterday (where I lost to it in the finals of my FNM event) was to pull out all of my counterspells, my Jitte,, 1 inquisition of Kozilek, and 1 Jace for 2 RiP, 2 Surgical, 2 Geist of St. Dude, 1 Sword, 1 Perish, and 1 Supreme Verdict. I'm convinced that I still need Spell pierce in the deck to deal with Liliana, because without Lingering Souls it felt really bad. Does anyone have any advice?
divert or misdirection.Quote:
Originally Posted by learntolove6
I would play a 2nd perish. It's MVP against them, and against other decks too. Keep in pierces for lil/hymn/choke and get value with souls/snaps. I don't play rip, but board in 1surgical(not even2)as u don't want to dilute ur deck too much.
So what happened to the deathblade version of this deck? I was hoping it would place atleast top 16 at the last scg open. Or was the previous ones just a fluke?
I've been returning my Strix after blocking with Academy Ruins and I gotta say its AMAZING. restricted removal and blocker/draw spell that recycles. Yes please. I'm gonna switch to an Intuition-friendly build and go nuts.
-abc
Naw, it just won again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadpool09
Speaking of the latest scg, the esperblade deck in the top 16 has something that got my attention, in the sense that he had a tower of the mangistrate in the sideboard, which hit me as a card i never really thought about in the past. Has anyone tested that card in the past? it does seem like a pretty good card to bring in a mirror match.
So is traditional Esper Stoneblade dead for Deathblade? Or is there still hope for those of us that prefer Stoneblade?
This was commonly seen as a 2 of or more a few months ago. I think it was better back then when the main plan of Stoneforge decks was to jam Batterskull, whereas now Stoneforge, especially Deathblade (blue junk), can win fairly easily without ever getting anything equipped.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThediscoPower
mmm, looking at thecounsil.es, by a few months you mean something like a year, right? However, what you say is true and makes sense. probably not worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrav
Dead? don't think so. Fallen out of favor? maybe, but certainly not dead. It's not like esper had any really bad matchups and that the metagame is dominated by them.Quote:
FuzzyLumpkins
So is traditional Esper Stoneblade dead for Deathblade? Or is there still hope for those of us that prefer Stoneblade?
I certainly don't think that traditional Esper is dead. To me, one of the main strengths of traditional Esper Stoneblade is its 2 Island, 1 Plains, 1 Swamp basic land suite and how it is capable of functioning almost entirely off of basic lands despite being a tricolour deck (see Vidianto Wijaya @ Grand Prix Denver). I've tried Esper Deathblade at one Legacy tournament and had a miserable experience. I hated how fragile and greedy the mana was and I immediately switched back to Stoneblade. Who knows, maybe I was just unlucky and maybe Deathrite Shaman does make the greedy mana base okay.Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins
I'd wait for a couple more tournament results and see how the meta responds. I know I'll still be rocking a Deathrite Shaman-less Esper deck.
How do you search for it in this deck? Or you just hope to draw it? Seems fine against your deck, especially in say, Maverick, but as a mirror breaker? Uncertain.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThediscoPower
The new manabase on the Deathblade variants are absolutely atrocious. Nevermind the variants splashing for decay. That's just stupid. You're asking for it when you run 4 colours in Legacy.
-Matt
I just run 24 lands and one of the three core basics. Combined with Deathrites the mana base isn't nearly as greedy as it may seem. The deck definitely has a lot of play to it; it's becoming increasingly difficult to choose just regular Esperblade over Deathblade.
After seeing a UWr list doing well in the Scg open, I'm intriqued. It packed 4 bolts, 4 stp and 3 Grim Lavamancers. I initially thought it was overkill, but seeing as how most decks are creature based midrange, having tons of cheap removal makes sense. A single Grim Lavamancer if left unchecked, can shut down Deathblade.
Of course there are some wacky inclusions in the list i dont agree with like Restoration Angels and Ponders. There needs to be more Jaces and Counterspells/more disruption.
I agree with you about the Restoration Angel, but i'm in with Ponders, even Preordain would be a good choice.
What I will never understand is why play Swords To Plowshares in the same deck that runs Lightning Bolts. It makes no sense to me at all.
What's more, Geist of Saint Traft is a week 2/2 body and can easily be blocked. He needs a sword most of the times but on the other hand I think Stoneforge Mystic is really slow.
I dont think the lightning bolts are going to damage players 95% of the time. They are to clear room so geist cant be blocked, or kill problem creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanith
Or Jaces.
Lightning Bolt kills almost every creature in the format, and it hits planeswalkers.
Did you notice that his board was almost entirely counters to bring in G2? That list is essentially giving up G1 against any sort of combo and hoping that packing counters G2/3 will be enough to bridge the gap. At that point, why are you even playing blue? Why not just play Jund or something that has an edge on all of the fair decks?Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
Anyone have an Esper or UW list that they like? Deathblade doesn't really appeal to me but it seems that Esper has fallen off of the map, though a standard Esper list came in at 10th in Columbus.
@apistat_commander
I been running an esper list control list with Dark Confidant for years. It does well for local legacy events and I have narrowly missed top 32 at the last star city event I was at.
Deathblade runs Dark Confidants which is the big advantage over the esper lists that don't. Deathrite Shaman I'm not sure about it makes your blue count really low but is so good in any grave yard match ups and lets you play turn 2 Clique and turn 3 Jace.
Confidant Stone Blade
Artifact (4)
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Black (7)
4 Dark Confidant
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
Blue (15+1 gold)
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
3 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
Gold (2)
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vindicate
White (11)
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Lingering Souls
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Swords to Plowshares
Lands (22)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
Sideboard (15)
1 Darkblast (elves, r/u delver, death/taxes, confidant mirrors)
1 Disenchant (Equipment, Choke)
1 Duress (control/combo)
2 Flusterstorm (control/combo)
1 Force of Will (combo)
1 Humility (big creature decks, reanimator, sneak/show)
1 Perish (Green decks)
3 Rest in Peace (Graveyard hate)
1 Supreme Verdict (creatures)
1 Sword of Feast and Famine (green decks, control)
1 Vendilion Clique (control/combo)
1 Zealous Persecution (elves, death+taxes, mirror)
But here's the thing, I've been playing a similar uwr tempo list months before this last open. The thing is, you will lose to nimble mongoose. And if playing rest in piece is our answer to goyf and goose, then lavamancer tiago become worthless. Anyways I love playing deathbalde, its definitely more proactive than esperstoneblade. I think main decking 2 baleful strix will help this deck survive mid game
The problem with Deathblade, IMHO, is that it tries to occupy that metagame slot of trying to out-fair the other fair decks (aka what Jund, Shardless, Nic Fit, even Elves when in a fair mood try to do) while just being worse at it than any of them. Many lists I've seen cut Souls, at which point I just have to ask, why even play Esperblade? Shardless would just be better, no? Of course, if you only have one deck and the traditional Esperblade meta slot is wrong, then trying to put yourself in a less bad spot is of course the correct thing to do, but I'm still skeptical that apart from the aforementioned Deathblade would ever be the correct thing to do. You'd just preferably be on a different deck to begin with.
The Deathrite-less Bob builds seem just plain better to me.
I'm also wondering how these SCG Deathblade lists are top 8ing through combo decks? Deathblade is hardly even a blue deck. Todds winning list from the last SCG has 3 FoW (with 14 blue cards), 1 clique and 2 thoughtseize main. In the SB he only has 2 more seizes, 1 FoW and 2 meddling mages. Thats 4 2-for-1 counterspells, 4 discard, and 3 hatebears, not very much game against combo. Even with Vidi's 16+ counterspell/discard list combo is still not always that favored. Are the combo players at scg opens non-existent or just bad?
He also has a detentions sphere and a snapcaster mage and a couple of Wastelands. I guess he isn't matched up to a lot of Combo decks in general and in the post board games he brings in so much combo hate it's not funny.
You should watch his matches they are so good!
Postboard additional Combo Hate:
4th FOW
2nd Detention Sphere
2 more Thoughtseizes
3 Geist of St. Traft
2 Meddling Mage
I keep on playtesting his list and you seem to rape Show and Tell Decks postboard.
They're just bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect
I can see it being decent against S&T. But that list doesnt look like it has a better matchup that deadguy ale against anything Storm based. 4 Thalia is almost better than 4 Force of will and other than that Deadguy would have more discard and hate bears and it still has a pretty bad storm matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
Watching todd get punted wins by that dredge player and seeing people choosing to play ANT over TES was giving me the impression that that's more likely the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by thefreakaccident
Choosing ANT over TES doesn't make you a bad player. Punts? Yes.
ANT is more versatile and is a bit faster. Also, not going Burning Wish is a good choice these days, Grim Tutor is so much better.
Why does this list not have a 'tempo control' build with 3-4 wastes and Stifles, OR a heavier actual control build featuring e. tutors, CB-Top lock with mystic into batterskull, a 5 turn clock?
Its as if no one plays it either way and I dunno why not. Its confounding to me.
I tossed an Academy Ruins into my list with 3 Strix and am tickled at their effectiveness. I want badly to play a single Venser the Sojourner, but seems risk'e.
One Humility is something i would like to see play as it turns batterskull into a 4-turn clock and shuts so many strategies down, its in my sb with a single e. tutor. Yes, I understand that it turns my other creatures off. So far its beeen worth it.
-ABC
This is precisely the reason why he had a lot of success.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect
Currently people are running a lot of extra-hate because I presented a lot of confidence on this forum about Omniclash being the best deck in the format. This can be checked by watching people's sideboards and the answers people gave in the top8 profiles from last week-end. With a spotlight on his face the deck is hated a ton and that hate has some splash damage on the rest of the combos. There was only 1 non-omnitell combo deck in the last SCG top16 : elves, that either can dodge several kind of hates or has alternative plans.
With everybody hating a lot the deck (which still placed one player in the top8 and another one top16), bonus goes to people letting the others do the job for them, having most combo decks crushed in the early rounds. People like Todd Anderson, with a deck able to out grind very reliably these decks that focus on beating combo with their sideboard or even their main deck, have a very good time navigating into this kind of metagame.
In Columbus, Todd Anderson's only loss was to Omnitell.
I think you oversell yourself there. People just looked at the last two open top8/16s, and looked at the previous Columbus metagames.
Hey Lejay, where is your Reid Duke quote from?
I think it was in an article on starcity by reid duke. Don't remember which one tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
edit here it is : http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...?Article=23767
I want to jam 2 wastelands in my deck to fight shardless and punishing jund, but i'm having such issues. i'm still just on vidianto's list (i'm still very convinced that it's awesome), so i'm thinking I want to cut counterspell and academy ruins to fit it in. counterspell is so good, but i side it out often enough in fair match ups. it hurts my combo match up a little bit, but i dont think it's that much. my other option is to run 61 cards but that has to be awful. do those cuts seem fine to the hive mind of the source?
It's possible I oversell myself. But to be more precise I actually think I oversold myself. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
At least my analysis is coherent with the fact that removing the dark confidants for geists didn't work well for Todd Anderson.
Also Brad Nelson lost his last round to storm.