Were you at Versus last night?
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Were you at Versus last night?
Yes that was me
Woah woah woah does this mean you're not going to troll Columbus with Russian treefolks?Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
Lejay have any comments on Steppe Lynx?
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/418567#online
Its great turn two on a fetch. Seems too "all in" for my tastes, especially running so few lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by now
Was ok but probably not worth it. But keeping just one tundra for meddling and RIP sb seems really good.
Was my first league with it so other tweaks were needed, 17 lands is clearly too many.
Interesting approach!
How has exquisite Firecraft been for you? Aginst what decks did you side it in?
Interesting. What’d you replace it with? How did Stormchaser Mage do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lejay
Firecraft was help against miracles while being useful against eldrazi. If I metagame for miracles I'll play several.
4th stormchaser and 2 grim. I like the flying ability a lot. Card has obvious pros and cons but I like the idea of tuning the deck around it and swiftspear.
I test a wide range of decks at the moment, so don't expect me to do deep thinking on this particular one even i made a 5-0.
I ran UR Delver to win 2 byes at the GP.
Legacy GPT at Gryphon Games in Fort Collins, CO
19 Players:
Round One - ANT - Win 2-1
Round Two - Stoneblade - Win 2-0
Round Three - Grixis Delver - Win 2-1
Round Four - Eldrazi - ID
Round Five - BUG Delver - ID
Top 8 - Grixis Delver, UR Delver (me), BUG Delver, RUG Delver, Miracles, Enchantress, Eldrazi and Storm
Quarterfinals - Enchantress - Win 2-0
Semifinals - BUG Delver - Round 5 Opponent - Win 2-1
Finals - Grixis Delver - Round 3 Opponent - He concedes since he isn't going to the GP
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Monastery Swiftspear
3x Stormchaser Mage
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Young Pyromancer
1x Snapcaster Mage
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder
3x Gitaxian Probe
2x Spell Pierce
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Chain Lightning
2x Price of Progress
1x Fireblast
4x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Arid Mesa
3x Volcanic Island
3x Island
1x Mountain
Sideboard:
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Winter Orb
1x Submerge
1x Invasive Surgery
2x Smash to Smithereens
1x Exquisite Firecraft
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Sulfuric Vortex
1x Sulfur Elemental
1x Pyroblast
1x Blood Moon
17 Lands is still too many, probably fit the 4th Ponder back in and try to fit the 4th Stormchaser as well, that guy was good all day, Snapcaster I think I only pitched him to FoW, the one of YP was good too, won me a game. The option to go Tall with Stormchaser or Wide with YP is nice.
Hey fellow delvers!
I've been tinkering around with my sideboard and would like to hear some opinions about the addition of a slight black splash (a single Underground Sea/Badlands instead of the third volcanic island) to add some copies of Cabal Therapy. I really like the interaction between YP/Probe and Therapy especially against combo decks, but i would like to stay UR and use PoP and Chain Lightning too. The single black source also makes casting a Dismember or Surgical Extraction less painful.
SB:
2x Cabal Therapy
1x Dismember
1x Fire/Ice
1x Flusterstorm
1x Grim Lavamancer
2x Pyroblast
2x Smash to Smithereens
1x Submerge
2x Sulfuric Vortex
2x Surgical Extraction
Opinions?
Greetings
I don't think it's worth to splash for 2 Cabal Therapies in the board, and I don't think having those 2 in the board will give you such an edge. Yhe best way to counter combo decks (Storm/Lands/Elves/Food Chain/Infect) is to make them stumble for 2 or 3 turns with Daze/FoW/Pierce while tapping your flying dudes sideways and a couple burn spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Tempel
I'm not experienced enough with Legacy to disagree with you here. I was just wondering why nearly every Grixis Delver is running Therapy either main/side or a split and i've read more than often how devastating Pyro+Therapy is. (I know Grixis is a different kind of deck and running DRS makes Therapy a turn faster too)Quote:
I don't think it's worth to splash for 2 Cabal Therapies in the board, and I don't think having those 2 in the board will give you such an edge. Yhe best way to counter combo decks (Storm/Lands/Elves/Food Chain/Infect) is to make them stumble for 2 or 3 turns with Daze/FoW/Pierce while tapping your flying dudes sideways and a couple burn spells.
Look at this list for example:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12553&d=272433&f=LE
This guy is running Therapy and it seems to work well. Finished two recent leagues on third and fourth place. I know that's no great evidence but i'm interested in giving therapy a try.
At worst i'm learning a lesson or two :laugh:
Do we have any clear answers to Kor Firewalker? I started playing online to test for EE4 and have lost to 2 DnT players running this card post board after smashing them game 1. I don't know if it's an online meta thing, but I've never run into this card after playing against many DnT players in paper Magic.
So far I've tried replacing the 4th Chain Lightning with a Vapor Snag, but I'm wondering if there isn't anything else less obvious that I'm missing.
dismember if you have to
Got second place at a small tournament (18people), missing first place ownly by a small margin.
It has been my first legacy event ever so i'm quite happy with the result!
I beat UG Infect 2-0, Eldrazi 2-1, mono black Hex Depths 2-1 and UWR Delver 2-1.
My list:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Price of Progress
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Mountain
Sideboard:
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
2 Spell Pierce
2 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Dismember
1 Sudden Demise
1 Fire/Ice
1 Submerge
1 Flusterstorm
Price of Progress has been nuts. Especially against Eldrazi, a single copy dealing 8 damage in G1.
The deck has really impressed me and the only change i'm considering is replacing the Fire/Ice with Exquisite Firecraft.
Greetings
I'm quite new to the deck, what are people's thoughts on Rift Bolt over Chain Lightning in the more all-in burn version of the deck? Although it is slower / the opponent can see it coming, it plays through a chalice for 1. Also, do you think invasive surgery in the sideboard worth it?
Invasive surgery is a fun card, but how often are you hitting delirium and what are you countering with it? I could see a case to be made for it, but I'm not sure this is the deck for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by knaveofdiamonds
If an opponent lands a chalice for 1 I don't think 6-9 damage is going to change the game in your favor. Don't forget that chalice doesn't say you can't cast spells with X cmc. So you can still pump your swiftspears or stormchasers if you're going that way or make infinite tokens with young peezy and go wide if you're playing that version.
I've been thinking of Rift Bolt but in theory I can picture suspending it, then it going off because you can play your prowess and you miss out on that extra pump.Quote:
Originally Posted by knaveofdiamonds
I had be running Invasive Surgery in the side and I agree with Shocked439, Spell Pierce will do anything Invasive will do and I very rarely have Delirium. I cut it from the side for the GP.
Hello, I am about to play this deck in next few tournaments.
Can you help me to build a good SB for my meta?
I expect other delver decks, lands!, miracles, elves and storm.
Thx. for any hints.
I believe that a good starting point for everyone here to help you would be that you share your MD list.Quote:
Originally Posted by jattra
There are obviously some generic answers to certain decks we can all suggest and which you can find yourself by reading the last 6 pages of this thread... or basically any posts written post DTT ban. ;)
Anybody have a report from the GP last weekend? It looks like there were 2 UR Burn lists in 28th and 29th at Prague, with basically the same 75.
I ended up running UR Burn with Snapcaster/Pierce (no Daze), to these results:
GP Columbus Day 1 (5-4):
Suicide Zoo [2-0] (he made day two)
Lands [1-2]
Deathblade [1-2]
Imperial Painter [2-0]
Death & Taxes [0-2]
Elves [2-1]
Burn [2-0]
Merfolk [1-2] <-- dead here
Shardless [2-0]
GP Columbus Super Sunday (4-4):
MUD [2-1]
BUG Delver [1-2]
Shardless [1-2] <-- dead here
Miracles [1-2]
Oops All Spells [2-1]
Food Chain [2-0]
4c Loam [2-0]
Tin Fins [1-2]
Overall the deck felt pretty solid, most likely I missed some match wins that could have been possible with better play. I'm not totally sure about Daze - I didn't have many situations where I clearly missed it, but Snapcaster->Price never actually came up either across 17 rounds. Snap->Bolt won two or three games that Daze would not have. Biggest issue was dealing with multiple Tarmogoyfs out of the BUG decks. I'm considering going up to 3 Submerge in the board for them.
For many of the matchups, in post-board games where the opponent can either fetch basics or sandbag lands, Price is a lot weaker and the game is a lot harder. Facing a couple early removal spells also slows us down a lot, usually enough to beat us. I ended up 15-2 in game 1's across the weekend, but obviously lost a lot of post-board games. Considering even coming up with a plan to bring in Lava Spike or something like that in those games, not sure.
I am sorry for an incomplete post. Yeah, this is what I currently haveQuote:
Originally Posted by Rocco111
http://deckbox.org/sets/1389963
Can you help me to build a good SB for my meta?
I expect other delver decks, lands!, miracles, elves and storm.
Thx for any hints.
Link to lists for those curious: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/430220#paperQuote:
Originally Posted by paradigm72
I've been testing different configurations of UR Delver in prep for Eternal Extravaganza 4, and I came to a very similar mainboard list. My only difference is running 1 Vapor Snag over the 4th Chain Lightning.
Their sideboards are really interesting. They went with zero graveyard hate to make room for more counterspells. Also, really surprising is zero smash to smithereens.
I honestly can't picture ever cutting Daze from this deck, as bad as it can be in certain situations. Do you have a list somewhere?Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm72
It's not much changed from a couple months ago:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerlic
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...cks_legacy-tab
After April I cut the SB Dismembers for Lavamancer/Pyroblast for the GP, since I found that even trying to remove TKS/Reality Smasher/Goyf was not as good as just racing, and losing 4 life doesn't help the race at all.
I might be totally wrong about Daze, not sure. My thinking was that it hampers the plan of getting to 4 mana to be able to Snapcaster -> Price. I also have found that the deck is very play/draw dependent, so I was looking for ways to even that out and run more cards that are impactful on the draw. I did run Daze at SCG Milwaukee (went 4-3), and a bunch of locals in between. I'm not really convinced either way yet.
Hey folks,
So I'm getting into this deck as my intro to blue decks. I've been playing Scapeshift Nic Shift and Eldrazi previously, but the allure of Force of Will and Brainstorm was too much. I'll probably slowly buy into Grixis Delver from here if I enjoy it, but that's gonna be a slow progression.
But my actual question is about Young Pyromancer vs Stormchaser Mage. What are the pros and cons of each build? I know Mage builds tend to run more Chain Lightning and Fireblast to take advantage of the Prowess triggers, while YP can more easily leverage instant speed interaction like Spell Pierce. I'm curious as to what the opinions are on running one versus the other.
Thanks in advance.
If grixis is your desired destination than you should go the peezy route. It is a more controlling game plan going wide with tokens and swinging. The stromchaser mage version is focused on out aggroing your opponent and finishing the game with reach spells like rice of progress and other burn spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3mag5num7
@parad - I don't think snap aster price is really the end goal. It's definitely a solid and even game winning play against some decks, but I don't think you should build your deck around that one interaction. If you ever find yourself facing lands or something you can always side out daze. Also having daze is so valuable in many cases. I really like it against miracles and combo, since you really have to put something on the board and disrupt as quickly as possible. Often going second you don't want to have to choose against playing a delver or holding up pierce for counterbalance because miracles is more than happy to sit back and just play with their dradle.
@3mag - why only go with one or the other? I'm assuming you have 4 delver and 4 swift spear. I don't really like just having 12 creatures. And I think most successful lists on the Margo league play somewhere between 14-16. And while they both have similar damage outputs, how your opponent needs to answer them is different and if they don't have the right answer at the right time it can get awkward. Pyroclasm vs young peezy can make your opponent do a dance but against stormchaser, they can cry. Stp against stormchaser is solid, but if you went pyromancer, probe, bolt; single target removal spells don't really alleviate the pressure. I guess what I'm saying, is if there isn't a clear cut winner, diversifying threats can be helpful.
I took UR Delver to GP Columbus. I did terrible to the point I'm switching off UR Delver, I'm debating UR Standstill or UR Splinter Twin.
Would you mind giving us some more information about your performance/games?Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatWhale
@3mag5num7:
As others have already mentioned, there is no "clear" way to go. Personally, i'm on the pyromancer route because i don't like the all in approach of stormchaser. You can also easily run Chain Lightning/PoP beside YP, at least i've made good experiences with that set up.
I feel like twin is a worse sneak and show. Requires two cards to win, but you have to cast them both. Can easily be stopped by single target removal. I think miracles boards out 4-6 removal spells against sneak and show where they all become super live against twin. It's better against Karakas I suppose.
I really appreciate the advice to try out Young Pyromancer some more even in the burn-heavy list, Bericson1989 and Jonny. I just did some paper tests of sample hands against Eldrazi, and realized I had forgotten how strong Young Pyro is because of his ability to block before turning the corner. I expect similar results being able to chump Tarmogoyf for a turn or two. Right now I'm thinking:
4 Delver
4 Swiftspear
3 Young Pyro
3 Stormchaser
to get that "diversified threats" aspect. My feeling is that some number of Stormchaser is still needed for matchups where the ground will clog, or to kill planeswalkers, but it needs more testing.
Went 6-2-1 with ur delver this weekend at eternal extravaganza. My only loses came to elves which seemed to have perfect hands against me but overall the deck was a ton of fun, price of progress was absurd and definetly feel comfortable piloting it again!!
My list!
4x delver
3x swiftspear
1x grim lavamancer
2x snapcaster mage
4x stormchaser mage
4x lightning bolt
3x force of will
1x misdirection
4x daze
4x brainstorm
4x ponder
4x gitaxian probe
1x forked bolt
1x fireblast
1x chain lightning
3x price of progress
4x scalding tarn
4x polluted delta
3x volcanic island
1x mountain
2x island
2x wooded foothills
SB
1x sulfuric elemental
1x price of progress
1x flustersturm
1x dismember
1x exquisite firecraft
2x rough tumble
2x spell pierce
2x smash to smithereens
3 x eidolon of the great revel
1x pyroblast
quick report
rd1 cloud post 2-1
ryan happel a local and a friend of mine, sadly he dosent draw well and I rip Price to finish game 3
rd2 lands 2-0 JD Nir
again price of progress is absurd
rd 3 cloud post again 2-0
again price destroys this deck
rd 4 elves 0-2
game 1 he overruns me
game 2 he turn 2's a runic thar gg.....
rd 5 lands 2-0
hasty threats and a price of progress for 18!!!!
game 2 storm chasers win this while I play through a trinisphere!!!
rd 6 ub omnishow 2-1
close games but snapcaster shines with flusterstorms
rd 7 elves 0-2
I cant get a early threat fast enough even my rough tumbles don't hold off the hoard long enough
rd 8 infect
tight plays seal this game, very nice opponent though
rd 9 cant make top 8 and they are paying on record so we split
So...for stormchaser builds, 3 PoP + 1 Fireblast is the "default" configulation of "finishing" spells?
I still think 2 fireblast. I think 5 is a good number for finishing instants. Maybe some metas would do better with 4 PoP/1 Fireblast and I also play a second Chain Lightning. I feel like in a Stormchaser version, more burn is better.
1 fireblast is fine, you rarely wanna draw the second. After playing 9 rounds with the deck I can easily say swiftspear is the worst creature in the deck and definetly want him replaced. Snapcaster was great and stormchaser was mediocre it did help having 3 power against punishing fire decks and being evasive though the real MVPof the entire deck is price of progress. I think the deck can still race but have more reach and run out of gas less if we change our creature utility. I was thinking of something of this sort.
3x snapcaster Mage
4x delver of secrets
2x grim lavamancer
3x true name nemesis (this guy beats eldrazi or holds them off long enough to PoP them out)
3x price of progress
2x forked bolt (won me a handful of games and can be the first card u side out vs mircles etc..)
4x lightning bolt
3x force of will
1x misdirection (I like the 3-1 split with force as misdirection leads to some much blowouts ie ancestral visions, hymns, opposing bolts etc..)
4x brainstorm
4x ponder
4x Probe
1x fireblast, or thunderous wrath
4x daze
1x vapor snag
1x spell pierce/dismember
16 lands
I like where you're heading, I find when I have them on the ropes a swiftspear off the top is just terrible, but I have having trouble using snapcaster with even 17 lands, I'm thinking Eidolon of the Great Revel might be good or a Scab Clan Bezerker.Quote:
Originally Posted by militiaman89
Re: cutting Swiftspear, are you guys not finding that you need the speed against slower midrange decks by overloading damage on turns 2-4? I don't know if I could give up the turns where I'm hitting for 6-9 with Swiftspear(s) and a couple Bolts/Chain Lightnings and putting the game away early. No question Swiftspear is bad in the late game, but I feel like cutting it would force us into grindy games a higher percentage of the time, and I don't want to grind with this deck.
I would consider 8 one drops to be necessary for the Aggro-Burn builds.
Swiftspear may not be the best topdeck (at least she has haste) but you have your cantrips for setting up most of your later draws and i had no issues with her so far. Those openings where you lead with Delver into Spear + Probe + Bolt while holding up Daze/FoW ist just great.
Swapping out Swiftspear for Snapcaster would require running more lands to reliable flashback PoP.
If you are going that "slower" route, Lavamancer seems like a nice addition too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Tempel
Most of the time swiftspear gets eatin up by the board or cant push through eldrazi. Snapcaster has been fine atq 16 and actually have been getting flooded alot which is why i been switching to a heavier 2 drop build. You want your real pay off cards to carry and not run off steam which is what my build above does.