[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[QUOTE=Togores;872891]Played this weekend in Sevilla a event went sadly 3-3 due to bad beats but have a question on something.

Thoughts?
/QUOTE]

vs. Infect - I found AD very ineffective, countered by Vines, does not help with Nexus

Question - first reaction was No because of the 2 reasons you mentioned, but thinking it through it might not be that bad... I'd leave it on gut feeling, no definite answer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nevilshute

So, this is completely just a casual experiment but I decided to voice over a couple of recorded matches of mine from mtgo (mtgo saves your most recent matches and allows you to rewatch them).

I'm terribly inexperienced with doing videos like this so any feedback is welcome. Not even sure who'd want to watch them, but I might do some more in the near future :smile:

I'm also planning on doing some actual streaming at some point but still working out the kinks of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfbYS2XqTQo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2qNoAg8KM

---

Oh, please definitely do! I enjoyed both the play and commentary a lot, high standard for 1st vids!

for the games

ANT x ANT
- agree with all your decisions outside of GP-Flusterstorm mistake and it's worth to SE something before dumping your Flusterstorm ... I'm one of the "more business" people and would not SB out 2nd PiF and EtW, I really like mirror matches.

ANT x D+T
- a bit anticlimactic... both games is why I like EtW, agree on G1 keep, I'm not very thrilled about SB abrupt decay but without Thoughtseize you probably have to

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nevilshute

So, this is completely just a casual experiment but I decided to voice over a couple of recorded matches of mine from mtgo (mtgo saves your most recent matches and allows you to rewatch them).

I'm terribly inexperienced with doing videos like this so any feedback is welcome. Not even sure who'd want to watch them, but I might do some more in the near future :smile:

I'm also planning on doing some actual streaming at some point but still working out the kinks of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfbYS2XqTQo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2qNoAg8KM

---

First video, game one, I would lead with Tropical Island to make them play around countermagic. Sea might do that as well, but if they're some kind of Show and Tell strategy, they're much more likely to still cast Show and Tell if they have one Force in hand. Tropical, go represents Canadian though, against which they'd never go off with just one counter and without being Daze-proof. Might buy you a turn. Also, if they're on Storm as well, they might Therapy you for Force of Will.

Then, with the Brainstorm, I would put back Tropical and Duress, shuffling away the Trop. I don't really see any point in having that Tropical, you want to draw gas.

Turn two, I agree with taking Infernal. Otherwise you're dead against LED, Dark Ritual or Cabal Ritual. You don't want that. Out of taking Ponder and Brainstorm, it doesn't really make a difference I think. Though you should take note that no single card wins him the game at that point and Brainstorm is better at finding combinations.

Game two, nothing happens, so yeah.

Game three I agree with Duress on turn one and taking Top. His hand does nothing now, and I probably would have mulled to five in his place, but that depends on his list. I can see keeping it.

Turn two, I'm not sure about cracking the Petal for Duress, although it's very aggressive. He needs to have hit Dark Ritual and LED for it to matter, which is unlikely because he didn't play LED after the Ponder. He also should have shuffled his Ponder.

Then, as you said, you're getting a little loose. Therapy should go on Cabal Ritual rather than a redundant Tutor. After finding the Flusterstorm with Top though, you're likely to have won anyway. That is the point to cast Surgical Extraction on his Cabal Rituals though, as it's the only card that allows him to Past in Flames you. If you don't do it there, at least do it in response to Therapy.

Next turn, you want to draw land with Top. Infernal does nothing with Past in Flames in hand and in case you find LED, you can just spin Top to draw both Tutor and LED.

Casting Probe into Flusterstorm is just bad. Of course, then you find another one and I'm going to stop watching at this point as there's basically no way he can win anymore. If you're interested in my thoughts on the rest of the game, let me know and I might watch it.

Thanks a bunch for the feedback. @Jona: as I rewatched the match this morning I actually stopped to think that leading on Tropical could have been strategically advantageous for just the reason you mention as it means our combo opponent needs to respect the possiblity that I'm on BUG or RUG delver or something.

I will hopefully be posting a few more vids later tonight or tomorrow vs. Burn, Maverick and UR Omni.

I'm still trying to figure out what rules there are to how long Modo saves the video-replays (hence "hopefully" - I might get home to find that the video material is no longer available).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nevilshute

So, this is completely just a casual experiment but I decided to voice over a couple of recorded matches of mine from mtgo (mtgo saves your most recent matches and allows you to rewatch them).

I'm terribly inexperienced with doing videos like this so any feedback is welcome. Not even sure who'd want to watch them, but I might do some more in the near future :smile:

I'm also planning on doing some actual streaming at some point but still working out the kinks of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfbYS2XqTQo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2qNoAg8KM

---

Really good videos. And I appreciated your analysis, well thought out. I hope to see more of them, thanks!

I've been playing Storm for about 3 years now, most of that time with a TNT list based on Temo's GP winning list. I've considered switching to normal ANT many times, but I'm always held back by how often I have to go off a second time against blue lists and how valuable being able to grab a second tendrils from the board, or an empty the warrens, can be.

I also have seen maindeck hate enough that I have to think having the out in the form of Burning Wish is really valuable. What do people think? Should I give pure ANT another try? How often do you actually fold to maindeck hate game 1? How often does your only Tendrils get eaten by a Deathrite Shaman? Are those scenarios common enough to justify watering down my deck?

My list:
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Burning Wish
1 Past In Flames
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony

4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Badlands
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard:
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Past In Flames
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Void Snare
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Karakas
1 Thoughtsieze

A couple of more vids:

https://youtu.be/6uoeOZJ1DNs

https://youtu.be/D_f_3tmCJY8

https://youtu.be/obk6MWsONao

I really enjoy your stuff martin.
But sometimes i kinda dissagree with your mulligan decisions. Have to talk about them later :)
For example the hand against the mirror where you have 2 Leds, a swamp and a senseis top alongside other cards.
I would definately keep the hand, drop all artifacts and start spinning the top to find a past in flames or tutor.

by the way,i fully agree with Jona and his comments on your videos.

Nice to have such a discussion here !

Jona - good point on the Trop
Sawatarix - G1 opp is not known yet, on play it's ok on draw not much, 2 Led is not as exciting in non Ad nauseam storm anyway

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nevilshute

A couple of more vids:

https://youtu.be/6uoeOZJ1DNs

https://youtu.be/D_f_3tmCJY8

https://youtu.be/obk6MWsONao

---

Is recording in 720p+ possible? Only Merfolk are higher res so far I believe... Anyway great vids again, I'd prefer cherry picking the most interesting games on replay to streaming, i think it's more comfortable for both viewer and caster... Would love to see some Miracles

On the games:

BUG
G1 I'd play different - T1 fetch USea -> CT on Hymn ... and get dazed anyway ... If I get dazed I'm getting hymned anyway and not wastelanded, if I get dazed I probably can BS if not wastelanded and not hymned, if I'm not dazed I'm not hymned... What I want to say is In every way on draw against Usea into Deathrite I'm in a very bad spot and want to play as effective as possible and half of topdecked fetches mean you did not play around wasteland anyway, so I believe there is no point in fetching a basic in a non winning nonblue 1 manasource hand ever unless you know about opp having wasteland and even then its fine if youre on play pondering ... Applied to this game it'd probably be better my way but I see it as a long run approach

I'd have thought more about discarding Past in flames in the 8 card hand to make him play careless of Pif, its not probably right time though, there is a very slim chance of doing anything next turn

G2 no point in playing out LEDs

Merfolk
G2 CT on CotV, keep on playing

Pox
Not fan of dice, ppl with dice are suspicious IRL
G2, ad nauseam is fine pick, Led is actually great play if he does what he did :) I'd end up without lands taking his top t2 after getting smallpoxed twice... At 17 you want to have gP+pif+toa instead of ritual in hand i feel like doing so you get free to top in the endstep

Played this list in Milano last weekend, lost my win-and-in for top eight both Friday and Saturday. I got pretty unlucky in all of my losses, but I won't say I was never lucky when I won. I really liked the list, but I might still make some changes.

1 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
1 Flusterstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
1 Rain of Filth

1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Past in Flames
4 Ponder
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Thoughtseize

Sideboard:
2 Xantid Swarm
3 Dread of Night
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Flusterstorm
1 Bayou
1 Burning Wish
1 Tendrils of Agony

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jona

Played this list in Milano last weekend, lost my win-and-in for top eight both Friday and Saturday. I got pretty unlucky in all of my losses, but I won't say I was never lucky when I won. I really liked the list, but I might still make some changes.

1 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
1 Flusterstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
1 Rain of Filth

1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Past in Flames
4 Ponder
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Thoughtseize

Sideboard:
2 Xantid Swarm
3 Dread of Night
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Flusterstorm
1 Bayou
1 Burning Wish
1 Tendrils of Agony

---

How does that Rain of Filth hold up? Seems pretty powerful in some cases.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingAutumn

How does that Rain of Filth hold up? Seems pretty powerful in some cases.

---

Rain of Filth is a field-tested card but appears in rather "non-standard" lists of ANT as the powerful 9th ritual effect.

btw, I really enjoyed your videos, Martin. I appreciate your effort of reviewing your plays and posting them.

It's basically the 5th dark ritual which also enables fast ******** for cabal rituals.
Play 1 and never look back ;-)
First i was unsure to be honest but this is the hell of a card !

@Jona:
Ad Nauseam,Pif and 2 Tendrils.
That's you my friend :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingAutumn

How does that Rain of Filth hold up? Seems pretty powerful in some cases.

---

I have not played Storm without Rain since 2011, but it's not always good. Most of the time it functions as the fifth Dark Ritual, getting better the more copies of Ad Nauseam you have in your 75. Also, it's pretty much the definition of all-in, so it requires careful play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sawatarix

@Jona:
Ad Nauseam,Pif and 2 Tendrils.
That's you my friend :D

---

Judging from the statistics I keep, the second Tendrils makes Ad Nauseam better. Sample size is ~250 games involving Ad Nauseam.

Makes sense. Revealing tendrills make u dint need infernal + led. Its only bad if u just keep fliping 4cmc cards. But usualy tendrills is the best flip of them.

So maybe you can tell us more about your performace in milano?

Would be interested how good your deck was at both tournaments.

Greetings, Kai

Well, I don't have my life pads anymore and I don't remember much without them.

Friday:

Round one against Shardless BUG I lose game one with my only action being Ponder, shuffle after a mulligan. Game two I easily win with either Ad Nauseam or Past in Flames, don't remember. Game three I win if I don't draw land, but draw land, next turn the same, next turn I win if I don't draw Tendrils. Whatever. At some point I countered a Hymn with Flusterstorm, either game 2 or 3.

The next round I play against Death & Taxes, easy. Ad Nauseam wins game one, Dread of Night wins game two. Then I easily win against Jund and Burn, killing my Burn opponent with a natural Tendrils draw on turn one. Round five I lose to Sneak & Show with maindeck Flusterstorm. Round six I kill my Miracles opponent turn one on the play in game one, draw all my Tendrils in game two and none of them in game three. Happens.

I mulled to six because of no land hands in almost all of my games on Friday. I think the only exception are my turn one kills.


Saturday:

Round one I lose against Canadian because I have an Infernal Tutor draw while he has Force of Will. Drawing discard, Tendrils or Past in Flames wins me the game, but alas, I drew none of those. I might have played my cantrips suboptimally, although I did think my play was pretty tight in that game. Game two he plays horribly, allowing me to win despite being naturally manascrewed and drawing all my Infernal Tutors without Brainstorm + fetchland. Game three I stall on one land again and lose.

Round two I win 2-0 against Jund I think. Round three I beat Deathblade. Round four I 2-0 Sneak & Show on the back of Flusterstorm mostly. Round five I win 2-1 against Sneak & Show because of Therapy on triple Emrakul game one and all the disruption in the world game three, losing to his protected turn two Show and Tell after a mull to five game two.

Round six I win against TES after a mull to five game one, we both mull to five game two and I decide to pull the trigger on a turn two Tendrils for 12 through Burning Wish, prompting me to lose to Surgical Extraction a couple turns later. Game three I win because he goes all in on Infernal + LED and I have Flusterstorm.

Round seven I lose to Deathblade because I don't draw any discard spells / Flusterstorm in games two and three. Round eight I win 2-1 against some weird UR Control variant after miscounting my opponent's lands game two.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

Jona - good point on the Trop
Sawatarix - G1 opp is not known yet, on play it's ok on draw not much, 2 Led is not as exciting in non Ad nauseam storm anyway



Is recording in 720p+ possible? Only Merfolk are higher res so far I believe... Anyway great vids again, I'd prefer cherry picking the most interesting games on replay to streaming, i think it's more comfortable for both viewer and caster... Would love to see some Miracles

On the games:

BUG
G1 I'd play different - T1 fetch USea -> CT on Hymn ... and get dazed anyway ... If I get dazed I'm getting hymned anyway and not wastelanded, if I get dazed I probably can BS if not wastelanded and not hymned, if I'm not dazed I'm not hymned... What I want to say is In every way on draw against Usea into Deathrite I'm in a very bad spot and want to play as effective as possible and half of topdecked fetches mean you did not play around wasteland anyway, so I believe there is no point in fetching a basic in a non winning nonblue 1 manasource hand ever unless you know about opp having wasteland and even then its fine if youre on play pondering ... Applied to this game it'd probably be better my way but I see it as a long run approach

I'd have thought more about discarding Past in flames in the 8 card hand to make him play careless of Pif, its not probably right time though, there is a very slim chance of doing anything next turn

G2 no point in playing out LEDs

Merfolk
G2 CT on CotV, keep on playing

Pox
Not fan of dice, ppl with dice are suspicious IRL
G2, ad nauseam is fine pick, Led is actually great play if he does what he did :) I'd end up without lands taking his top t2 after getting smallpoxed twice... At 17 you want to have gP+pif+toa instead of ritual in hand i feel like doing so you get free to top in the endstep

---

Thanks Slosh (and everyone else) for the feedback. I will try and see what I can do about the recording quality - I must admit I am a bit of a novice and that's putting it mildly. For instance, I have used the same method and equipment to record all five videos, so for one of them - Merfolk - to be different from the others is just weird :smile:

I've done some thinking. I basically just set out to create some Legacy content on youtube. Starting with ANT but might branch out into more decks eventually. Ideally I'd prefer to only record one match per matchup. As I'm not playing against RL friends but actual random opponents I can't control what I get to play against. There's also another issue in this regard which is that modo doesn't allow for me to access all of the matches I've played retrospectively. Like with the last three matches: I played 4 or 5 matches that day - among others a sweet 3-gamer against UR Omni that I was looking forward to recording later on, but when I logged on later that same day I couldn't find it in my "game history", only the three I ended up recording.

Anyway, that is no excuse for releasing tame matches but I was just anxious to get something because it wasn't clear to me that I'd be able to do more recording for at least another few days.

So, in the pipeline:

- More ANT video singles. I will try and get some of the other interesting matchups like Miracles, RUG delver, Sneak and Show etc.

- A full daily event. This won't be until the weekend after this one at the earliest but might try and get a few daily events done then and hope I don't scrub out 0-2.

- An introduction to the deck. This should probably have been done first but, you know. I know something like this won't be relevant to everyone, but it might be nice for someone new to the deck.

- Similar content but for other Legacy decks.

- Streaming - but that is some ways away. Both an issue for me in terms of steadily getting to do daily events - especially with the new bogus Schedule, but also I'm having trouble getting the equipment to work.

Oh, and Slosh... I'm very much not suspicious in spite of my wayward ways with my dice bag :wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nevilshute

Thanks Slosh (and everyone else) for the feedback. I will try and see what I can do about the recording quality - I must admit I am a bit of a novice and that's putting it mildly. For instance, I have used the same method and equipment to record all five videos, so for one of them - Merfolk - to be different from the others is just weird :smile:

I've done some thinking. I basically just set out to create some Legacy content on youtube. Starting with ANT but might branch out into more decks eventually. Ideally I'd prefer to only record one match per matchup. As I'm not playing against RL friends but actual random opponents I can't control what I get to play against. There's also another issue in this regard which is that modo doesn't allow for me to access all of the matches I've played retrospectively. Like with the last three matches: I played 4 or 5 matches that day - among others a sweet 3-gamer against UR Omni that I was looking forward to recording later on, but when I logged on later that same day I couldn't find it in my "game history", only the three I ended up recording.

Anyway, that is no excuse for releasing tame matches but I was just anxious to get something because it wasn't clear to me that I'd be able to do more recording for at least another few days.

So, in the pipeline:

- More ANT video singles. I will try and get some of the other interesting matchups like Miracles, RUG delver, Sneak and Show etc.

- A full daily event. This won't be until the weekend after this one at the earliest but might try and get a few daily events done then and hope I don't scrub out 0-2.

- An introduction to the deck. This should probably have been done first but, you know. I know something like this won't be relevant to everyone, but it might be nice for someone new to the deck.

- Similar content but for other Legacy decks.

- Streaming - but that is some ways away. Both an issue for me in terms of steadily getting to do daily events - especially with the new bogus Schedule, but also I'm having trouble getting the equipment to work.

Oh, and Slosh... I'm very much not suspicious in spite of my wayward ways with my dice bag :wink:

---

I have very blurry idea how modo works, but there are all replays I've played for last few months... Why just only one? I'd prefer interesting matches as they come, no real schedule - just the best, 2 fast kills with EtW vs D+T is persuading how this card can be good, however a hard MU "chess match" where key points of win/loss can be seen whatever the outcome is prefereable... Stuff like Miracles and UBx can really make a great series, so many decisions... More vids can cover different angles of the MUs - in the way of D+T example a win getting through hate a long game winning through hate(thalia, leonin arbiter, mindcensor) with/without sb cards you get 3-5 descriptive supplement vids in one of the more boring Mus possible, interesting mu makes this much better, in a longer you get them playing Modo

there is not really a quality ant content (read: none) online - it's "picked up the deck 5 mins ago" lsv, scg punters, wonderpreux who does not stream lately and splits his tiime also between DDFT And TES, random twitch punters and zillion random videos on youtube where you do not know if you're watching garbage till the very end... I think you can be a pioneer ;)

Dice - happened to me few times that I got substantial strategic advantage because of dice Tes players, I knew instantly what they we're on once they sat to the table... that's why I never carry a dice in a tournament...on the other hand I also do not have zombie tokens in my deckbox...

[QUOTE=Sloshthedark;873480]I have very blurry idea how modo works, but there are all replays I've played for last few months... Why just only one? I'd prefer interesting matches as they come, no real schedule just the best, however 2 fast kills with EtW is persuading how this card can be good a hard MU "chess match" where key points of win/loss can be seen whatever the outcome is prefereable... Stuff like Miracles and UBx can really make a great series, so many decisions...
there is not really a quality ant content (read: none), it's "picked up the deck 5 mins ago" lsv, scg punters, wonderpreux who does not stream lately and splits his tiime also between DDFT And TES, random twitch punters and zillion random videos on youtube where you do not know if you're watching garbage till the very end... I think you can be a pioneer ;)

Dice - happened to me few times that I got substantial strategic advantage because of dice Tes players, I knew instatantly what they we're on once they sat to the table... that's why I never carry a dice in a tournament...on the other hand I also do not have zombie tokens in my deckbox...[/QUOTE]

So I would next-level you if we met. Here's what I do:

If playing storm: Carry my dicebag (it's relatively small) in my pocket. Don't take it out until I am going off.

If NOT playing storm: Casually plop my dicebag on the table, open it up, poor out all the dice and ask to roll for play/draw.

[QUOTE=nevilshute;873482]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

I have very blurry idea how modo works, but there are all replays I've played for last few months... Why just only one? I'd prefer interesting matches as they come, no real schedule just the best, however 2 fast kills with EtW is persuading how this card can be good a hard MU "chess match" where key points of win/loss can be seen whatever the outcome is prefereable... Stuff like Miracles and UBx can really make a great series, so many decisions...
there is not really a quality ant content (read: none), it's "picked up the deck 5 mins ago" lsv, scg punters, wonderpreux who does not stream lately and splits his tiime also between DDFT And TES, random twitch punters and zillion random videos on youtube where you do not know if you're watching garbage till the very end... I think you can be a pioneer ;)

Dice - happened to me few times that I got substantial strategic advantage because of dice Tes players, I knew instatantly what they we're on once they sat to the table... that's why I never carry a dice in a tournament...on the other hand I also do not have zombie tokens in my deckbox...[/QUOTE]

So I would next-level you if we met. Here's what I do:

If playing storm: Carry my dicebag (it's relatively small) in my pocket. Don't take it out until I am going off.

If NOT playing storm: Casually plop my dicebag on the table, open it up, poor out all the dice and ask to roll for play/draw.

---

I hope to give you the opportunity at Danish masters, fortunately I know your name so you want catch me off guard with your puny circus trick :cool:too theatrical anyway ;)

Hmmm... I even used to ask for a dice to determine play/draw to not reveal that I'm carrying dices. Just saying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemnear

Hmmm... I even used to ask for a dice to determine play/draw to not reveal that I'm carrying dices. Just saying.

---

Where's the 'like button'.

Yeah basically that is how I do it. If I'm playing storm I'm never show casing a single die until it's time to use them.

But, to be fair, that's only one side of the problem. There are things to be said about bringing out your dice even when your opponent knows you're on storm. Like, even if I've already decided to go for it now, I won't start using dice (even just for mana) until I'm (99%)certain I'm going to win. Because it might influence your opponent's decision if he/she sees you getting your dice all set up when you cast your first spell for the turn and it's a Petal. Rarely, but sometimes that one spell that must not get countered is a lotus petal or the first ritual of a turn. If you sit up in your chair, get out all your dice and move to put one up to count storm you are telegraphing very clearly what you plan to do and it might induce them to respond when you need them not to.

With that said, there's even room for some counter-intelligence and double fake-outs here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nevilshute

Where's the 'like button'.

Yeah basically that is how I do it. If I'm playing storm I'm never show casing a single die until it's time to use them.

But, to be fair, that's only one side of the problem. There are things to be said about bringing out your dice even when your opponent knows you're on storm. Like, even if I've already decided to go for it now, I won't start using dice (even just for mana) until I'm (99%)certain I'm going to win. Because it might influence your opponent's decision if he/she sees you getting your dice all set up when you cast your first spell for the turn and it's a Petal. Rarely, but sometimes that one spell that must not get countered is a lotus petal or the first ritual of a turn. If you sit up in your chair, get out all your dice and move to put one up to count storm you are telegraphing very clearly what you plan to do and it might induce them to respond when you need them not to.

With that said, there's even room for some counter-intelligence and double fake-outs here.

---

If we are down to technical issues with dices, I want to note that they can not only tumble over, take time for adjusting after each spell, but make it TOO easy for your opponent to keep track of mana and find good timing for softcounters.

After years of playing with the dices, I now tend to leave them at home and do all the stuff like keeping track of storm and mana with my notepad, even if digging out the dices from your satchel and placing a black dice with a "2" on top right in front of their face, make opponents very nervous and provokes mistakes

I typically keep my dice and goblin tokens in a separate deckbox that I've got in my pocket, and pull it out when I'm going off, and I think that works well enough

Yeah generaly I'm also lazy, get dice stolen and overall I find it cumbersome and distracting operating the dice aparatus... i'm fine with shifting things up and down in the GY and using notepad if interrupted or tutoring...

I remember BDP casually announcing Storm 1 playing LED in Dredge and flipping zombie tokens while playing Ant... Oh I miss the old days :/

When I play i carry in my backpocket my pen, lofepad and my 3 12 sided blue, red, black dices. When I start to play I just take one out and start when I go off I take the other 2. But not until I want. Depending on when I want to represent im counting storm or mana.

Also i have more dirty littl tricks to get an edge. (:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemnear

If we are down to technical issues with dices, I want to note that they can not only tumble over, take time for adjusting after each spell, but make it TOO easy for your opponent to keep track of mana and find good timing for softcounters.

---

You have to announce the mana you're floating after casting each spell anyway.

That being said, I have never used dice playing storm except for Goblin tokens. When going off with Past in Flames, natural Tendrils and Tutor chains, everything is generally easy to track and when going off with Ad Nauseam, I tend to note down the amound of mana I have floating and if I still have a landdrop before I start flipping.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jona

You have to announce the mana you're floating after casting each spell anyway.

That being said, I have never used dice playing storm except for Goblin tokens. When going off with Past in Flames, natural Tendrils and Tutor chains, everything is generally easy to track and when going off with Ad Nauseam, I tend to note down the amound of mana I have floating and if I still have a landdrop before I start flipping.

---

I tend to announce this vocally to my opponent as soon as he has indicated that Ad Nauseam is resolving. Like "okay, I'm at 17, I have not played a land this turn". And just get their recognition on that.

For the dice, I actually never need any dice unless in a tournament.

In tournament my opponent will lend me dice anyway, so they can know what is going on...

I'm just too damn lazy to take out my dice unless I absolutely have to to determine who goes first as I just have a bunch of spindowns. Virtually everyone knows I'm on storm anyways so it doesn't mean anything in terms of gaining an edge unless I'm playing some people I typically don't see.

New vid, ANT deck tech. Probably mostly for newer players of the deck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GBhdS1YHr4

Glad to see ANT back in DTB, where it belongs. :-) I'm back and ready to make those adjustments I promised. How's this clunky old primer stand up after a year?

I had to fight through massive hate yesterday at our local Legacy tournament. Our meta has turned to control where 1/3 field is running Miracles and the rest midrange or brews without tempo.
I decided to run Young Pyromancer again since it reminds me of our great time during summer '14 and might catch some Miracles offguard again.
Let's see:

2:1 Esper Control
I am playing this guy at almost every tournament and he usually slams Miracles. But instead he went for hardcore hate Espercontrol with MMage, SMage, Extractions and stuff like Toughtseize, Duress! and a solid bunch of counterspells. During the first game he states to another guy that a wise man boards beforehand in regard to his maindeck hate. I win this match obviously with a natural Tendrils line due to him being at 12. (Isn't it a paradox that he has lost the game due to his own Thoughtseize lifeloss...?) The second match was dominated by an overflow of hate, whereas in the third he finds himself being at 12 againt and me casting Ad Nauseam from 13 or something after baiting his counterspells before = close win is a win is a win.

2:1 Team America
Meffeo runs TA and additionally is a Storm adept. I am on the draw without land but with Petal, LED and Grim in hand +1 Probe and 1 Dark Ritual. He goes for Ponder and I see his hand without interaction. I went for the #yolo mode and managed to get a sick line including 2 BS to find the desired kill on turn 1. During the second game, I made a mistake by using a safe mode Ad Nauseam instead of going for the unprotected kill since he had 2 unknown cards in hand but no interaction. AdN fizzled and my only out, Ponder, didn't show me PiF, which was the only card that could have won the match. The last game was rather unspectacular, as I went for Ad Nauseam after he forced my Therapy pitching FoW.

2:0 Grixis Control
Easy games against not an easy MU. He had discard, counterspells and juicy DTT but no chances against a timely PiF kill in game one and a Insect-protected AdN kill in game two.

1:2 Grixis Control
Unfortunately, I couldn't draw since I was the only player with 9 points and had to play against this guy with 7 points. He is known for hating combo decks, thus I know that it will be difficult to win here. In game 1 I keep a greedy no land hand but with enough stuff to win if I draw one. Turn 3 I drew Bayou into GG for the opponent. The second game allowed for a natural chain after some discarding and removing from both sides where I went for the safe kill using no engine. Game 3 was depressing since he drew all the hate in the world to prevent me from assembling a solid hand. My plan to go for the ToA from hand was destroyed by his Clique (fortunately not during a combo move), and his Therapies and Extraction simply were too much for the deck to function.

I didn't slam Kid Pyrodude even once and he will move to the folder again. My current SB after this tournament looks like this:
2 Pithing Needle
2 City of Solitude
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Chain of Vapor
1 Massacre
1 Flusterstorm
1 Extirpate
2 Xantid Swarm
I want to try out the Pithing Needle plan with City of Solitude and Decay against Miracles which should work to a certain degree.

Nice report and gratz for the result.

Btw, the unknown cards in my hand during G2 were Hymn to Tourach and FoW.

Congrats for the result Cabal Therapy, if you don't mind I would like to ask you some things. First of all, I didn't have the chance to play against this new Grixis deck with Pyromancers, Therapy and counters. As you said it seems really not an easy match-up. How do you sideboard here? Something like bringing Tops in could work? I read you took in the Insects, didn't your opponent have bolts?
Second and last thing, I would like to ask you the proper use of City of Solitude vs. Miracles, since I know you played them for some months. I tried them, but was uncertain about that: under top-balance lock do you slam them on the battlefield since cmc3 is harder for them hoping they don't have fow, or wait for a Decay to get rid of it, so you can cast discard to deal with Fow? I tried both ways, when waiting I found myself weak to Vendilion's triggers and Snapcaster Mage's beats, when yolo-ing it into play it always got Fow-ed :frown: I'm sure I'm missing something in how to play this card, that seems very awesome to me in the paper.

Thanks a lot! :smile:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghiwo

Congrats for the result Cabal Therapy, if you don't mind I would like to ask you some things. First of all, I didn't have the chance to play against this new Grixis deck with Pyromancers, Therapy and counters. As you said it seems really not an easy match-up. How do you sideboard here? Something like bringing Tops in could work? I read you took in the Insects, didn't your opponent have bolts?
Second and last thing, I would like to ask you the proper use of City of Solitude vs. Miracles, since I know you played them for some months. I tried them, but was uncertain about that: under top-balance lock do you slam them on the battlefield since cmc3 is harder for them hoping they don't have fow, or wait for a Decay to get rid of it, so you can cast discard to deal with Fow? I tried both ways, when waiting I found myself weak to Vendilion's triggers and Snapcaster Mage's beats, when yolo-ing it into play it always got Fow-ed :frown: I'm sure I'm missing something in how to play this card, that seems very awesome to me in the paper.

Thanks a lot! :smile:

---

Thank you. I wanted to share this event due to the unconventional MU in our meta. Concerning the Grixis Control deck, I tried to board as light as possible but to present a kind of hate against their hate. At the moment, I don't play Sensei's Divining Top but I am think that it is definitely a decent card to have here. Yes, you are right, I chose to board 2x Xantid Swarm in order to quickly power through their masses of counterspells and luckily as I tried to read the strategy of my first opponent, he has boarded all Bolts out. It was a high risc to lose a bit on card advantage but it has paid off. I didn't have Cities in my SB during this tournament.

Concerning Miracles, I know your problems since I have experienced them myself a couple of times. Normally, I try to aggressively discard their Balance, Top or catrips early in the game and play City on an empty board. It feels good to dodge Flusterstorm here and make this spell absolutely useless in the opp's hand. But in my opinion, I see the upside of having a real threat for cc3 as more important as the downside of partially slamming it blind and riscing a trade with a counterspell which is no bad at all. Kai calls it the cc3 Duress, but I like a Duress that can lock out the opponent on its own. Just as everything in our deck, timing is the key to play City. Sometimes a match provides only one possible and correct chance for that and sometimes (especially against Miracles) these windows are hard to recognize. I don't directly address you because it is a matter of reading the opponent and their possibilities which is sometimes just a guessing game. Nonetheless, I will play with 2 Cities again which sounds nice to me. I gladly waste two/three slots on this almost pure-Miracles SB card because it already served me well but starts loosing its surprise factor in the local metagame.

I hope this helps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CabalTherapy

I had to fight through massive hate yesterday at our local Legacy tournament. Our meta has turned to control where 1/3 field is running Miracles and the rest midrange or brews without tempo.
I decided to run Young Pyromancer again since it reminds me of our great time during summer '14 and might catch some Miracles offguard again.
Let's see:

2:1 Esper Control
I am playing this guy at almost every tournament and he usually slams Miracles. But instead he went for hardcore hate Espercontrol with MMage, SMage, Extractions and stuff like Toughtseize, Duress! and a solid bunch of counterspells. During the first game he states to another guy that a wise man boards beforehand in regard to his maindeck hate. I win this match obviously with a natural Tendrils line due to him being at 12. (Isn't it a paradox that he has lost the game due to his own Thoughtseize lifeloss...?) The second match was dominated by an overflow of hate, whereas in the third he finds himself being at 12 againt and me casting Ad Nauseam from 13 or something after baiting his counterspells before = close win is a win is a win.

2:1 Team America
Meffeo runs TA and additionally is a Storm adept. I am on the draw without land but with Petal, LED and Grim in hand +1 Probe and 1 Dark Ritual. He goes for Ponder and I see his hand without interaction. I went for the #yolo mode and managed to get a sick line including 2 BS to find the desired kill on turn 1. During the second game, I made a mistake by using a safe mode Ad Nauseam instead of going for the unprotected kill since he had 2 unknown cards in hand but no interaction. AdN fizzled and my only out, Ponder, didn't show me PiF, which was the only card that could have won the match. The last game was rather unspectacular, as I went for Ad Nauseam after he forced my Therapy pitching FoW.

2:0 Grixis Control
Easy games against not an easy MU. He had discard, counterspells and juicy DTT but no chances against a timely PiF kill in game one and a Insect-protected AdN kill in game two.

1:2 Grixis Control
Unfortunately, I couldn't draw since I was the only player with 9 points and had to play against this guy with 7 points. He is known for hating combo decks, thus I know that it will be difficult to win here. In game 1 I keep a greedy no land hand but with enough stuff to win if I draw one. Turn 3 I drew Bayou into GG for the opponent. The second game allowed for a natural chain after some discarding and removing from both sides where I went for the safe kill using no engine. Game 3 was depressing since he drew all the hate in the world to prevent me from assembling a solid hand. My plan to go for the ToA from hand was destroyed by his Clique (fortunately not during a combo move), and his Therapies and Extraction simply were too much for the deck to function.

I didn't slam Kid Pyrodude even once and he will move to the folder again. My current SB after this tournament looks like this:
2 Pithing Needle
2 City of Solitude
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Chain of Vapor
1 Massacre
1 Flusterstorm
1 Extirpate
2 Xantid Swarm
I want to try out the Pithing Needle plan with City of Solitude and Decay against Miracles which should work to a certain degree.

---

good report and thanks for share it with us!

i play miracles (almost all the tim) but i have Ant as second deck, the sideboard it´s pretty close to mine, but i have rebuild too, my local meta is infested with MUD :S

i have to ask, how is your main deck currently? if you want to share it here (or pm ) it would be awesone :) I testing with 1 empty, 2 Pif, 1 tendrils and 2 grim tutors (or -1 for 2nd tendrills) !
i want to have more key spells, but not sure if this is the "right" configuration, because i don´t play Ant as main deck because i get tilted so many times for drawing only mana, or only blanks in specific situations... :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ancestral

good report and thanks for share it with us!

i play miracles (almost all the tim) but i have Ant as second deck, the sideboard it´s pretty close to mine, but i have rebuild too, my local meta is infested with MUD :S

i have to ask, how is your main deck currently? if you want to share it here (or pm ) it would be awesone :) I testing with 1 empty, 2 Pif, 1 tendrils and 2 grim tutors (or -1 for 2nd tendrills) !
i want to have more key spells, but not sure if this is the "right" configuration, because i don´t play Ant as main deck because i get tilted so many times for drawing only mana, or only blanks in specific situations... :/

---

Sure, there is no need of concealement. My main 60 list hasn't been changing since March/April 2014 (only fetchlands have changed, in 2013 I played TNT to a great extent). Thus, I have played both Prague Eternals with it and a great number of local/semi-local tournaments. I still like this list a lot and additionally I got used to see the same cards over and over again. It maybe sounds strange but I feel like there is a certain conncetion between the own deck and for example a friend's ANT deck, which might also be identical concerning the list but not the cards as such. On a sidenote, I only play green Dragonshields to support this notion.

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

4 Infernal Tutor
1 Grim Tutor

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Preordain

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Ad Nauseam

4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp
1 Island

I am sorry to hear that people like to play MUD. :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CabalTherapy

Sure, there is no need of concealement. My main 60 list hasn't been changing since March/April 2014 (only fetchlands have changed, in 2013 I played TNT to a great extent). Thus, I have played both Prague Eternals with it and a great number of local/semi-local tournaments. I still like this list a lot and additionally I got used to see the same cards over and over again. It maybe sounds strange but I feel like there is a certain conncetion between the own deck and for example a friend's ANT deck, which might also be identical concerning the list but not the cards as such. On a sidenote, I only play green Dragonshields to support this notion.

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

4 Infernal Tutor
1 Grim Tutor

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Preordain

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Ad Nauseam

4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp
1 Island

I am sorry to hear that people like to play MUD. :laugh:

---

i kind understand that conection you talk about, but still i love this deck ( i´m missing cabal therapy and leds in chinese to have the deck full chinese/japanese ) and still can´t feel the love back ahahahah i play with the deck a lot for fun, but i can´t find enough confidance to take the deck to a big tournament, i´m going to lille and i m certainly i take the deck with me, but i m almost 100% sure that i will play miracles xD

yeah mud is rough as hell :/ i don´t know why people like to play it but i guess here its because its cheap and they have wurmcoils for playing modern :p

MUD is sweet yo. I've only played against the Gruxis control deck once and maybe the guy just wasn't very good with the deck, but it seemed like a fairly easy MU. I'm on the double PiF SB ad nauseam plan though. I just play out my LEDs and then cantrip and discard until I naturally find a PiF and from there it's over