I know you are DnT player, so I will take your advice very seriously :-) I love Fire / Ice, so maybe I will give a try...or Forked Bolt, which is insane sometimes. Thx.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns
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I know you are DnT player, so I will take your advice very seriously :-) I love Fire / Ice, so maybe I will give a try...or Forked Bolt, which is insane sometimes. Thx.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns
Really liked your report and congrats on the solid finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns
My questions/thoughts:
-Life from the Loam is absurd in so many matchups...I've been jamming this deck in our local Legacy scene for a couple weeks and my win percentage against delver decks and lands is insanely high when I cast this. What are your thoughts on a 2nd loam out of the board? It's really worked well for me.
-Along the same Life from the Loam topic....What are your thoughts on 2 Ghost Quarter out of the board? Against miracles it keeps them off white and against lands it's Wastelands 5-6.
-Main deck barbarian ring?
-I'm disappointed with Hooting Mandrills and I've been playing True-names main.
Maybe my findings above are biased based on our local metagame...
Also, going to GP Vegas..so would love to get anyone else's thoughts on the above...
Long time player....first time poster...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamannov
could you post us your decklist? :)
Here's my list. My meta game is mostly Grixis Delver, Lands, some Miracles, D&T, and some random stuff. Very little combo actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by fapsik
10 Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 True-Name Nemesis
32 Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
1 Life from the Loam
1 Forked Bolt
1 Dismember
1 Counterspell
18 lands
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
SB:
3 Pyroblast
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ghost Quarter
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Flusterstorm
1 Winter Orb
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sudden Demise
1 Pithing Needle
I would love feedback on the above and get people's thoughts on SB plans. Maybe I'm too "all-in" with Life from the Loam, but the amount I win when I cast it is pretty high.
I once beat a UW/b Miracles deck through an Ensnaring bridge simply by Wasteland/GQuarter locking them out of the game
I'll be at GP Vegas if anyone wants to hangout and share ideas...
No, you're correct, Loam is really good right now. I have 2 Loam 1 Ring main with an extra 2 Rings in the board at this point. I dislike Ghost Quarter. It takes too long for Quarter to actually do something against decks with basics. I'd much rather Orb them (Miracles) or Ring-lock them (all the other decks). I think Ring is superior to sweepers at this point.
If I were to play with Delver, I would probably run the same creature-suite as you do, just without the sideboard True-Name. I think it's somewhere between reasonable and good to have 2 Ring / 1 Loam against Miracles after sideboarding.
I played Dark Thresh at Eternal Weekend by the way. My list wasn't tuned well enough and I don't think it's reasonable to run a deck without Pyroblast if you want to win a Legacy tournament. It's definitely possible to squeeze Pyroblasts into the Dark Thresh sideboard though. Here's my list from the event, theorycrafted on Friday with HJ:
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Counterspell
4 Daze
3 Fatal Push
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
1 Life from the Loam
1 Painful Truths
4 Ponder
//Sideboard:
3 Winter Orb
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Flusterstorm
2 Invasive Surgery
2 Cabal Pit
1 Life from the Loam
1 Painful Truths
Hi everyone!
First time writing, long time reading and playing.
First of all, I would like to say thank you for everyone, for all hard work you doing here. :)
I was a Infect player for a long time, but I'm not so happy with my results with the deck in my meta... So I've decide to change a "little". I became a Grixis/RUG Delver, and I have to say... WOW! :D
Every day I came here in search for new tips and advices, and I'm very happy to found some help with the deck I choose to play.
This week I played a little with some friends, and I would like to share some thoughts.
That's the list that I played:
4 x Delver of Secrets
4 x Nimble Mongoose
2 x Hooting Mandrils
1 x Sylvan Library
4 x Ponder
1 x Life from the Loam
4 x Brainstorm
4 x Daze
4 x Force of Will
4 x Stifle
2 x Spell Pierce
1 x Spell Snare
1 x Counterspell
4 x Lightning Bolt
1 x Forked Bolt
1 x Dismember
4 x Misty Rainforest
4 x Flooded Strand
3 x Tropical Island
3 x Volcanic Island
4 x Wasteland
I've played against BR Reanimator, BG Depths and Maverick.
The deck performs really well agains all this 3 decks. We don't play with sideboards, by the way. I only lose one game for BG depths, and 1 match for the Maverick.
Ok, so here we go...
- I really love the Mandrils! They did a GREAT job! Every time a needed a creature, I wish it was a Mandrils. 4/4 trample for 1 green mana? I'll take it!
- The match that I lost for the Maverick, was for couldn't search some finishers. I felt that only have 10 creatures in the deck was a little poor. I'll go try 2 more TNN (even think the 3cmc is a little heavy for the deck style).
- I'll cut the Counterspell for another Spell Snare. Every time a had a CS in hands, I wish it was a Spell Snare. Holding the 2 mana open for a CS delayed me a little. Maybe a I should try a little more and buy the idea... But... I'll made this the change for a while.
- The only time I see Life from the Loam, he didn't help me as I wanted. Was against Maverick, in the match that I lost. Maybe against Mav., Loam doesn't shine as I wish.
- Sylvan Library is a must. I've always think that if you're in green, you have to play Library.
- I really would like to put in another Spell Pierce. Since we try to punish their mana base, I think Pierce can do a great job. Don't you think?
Ok, that is it!
Greetings from Brazil and sorry for the bad english :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nola
Thank you for your sharing, everything counts :-)
I have only few comments:
- 10 creatures + 2 in sideboard is fine and the only question is what creature you wish to play in a certain situation. I think, that if you would play with sideboards, you would have been in a better position, because you could optimize your creature selection. The point in this deck is to pick a creature which opponent has a problem to deal with. That means, it stays longer and you do not need the other ones. But it needs testing, skill and sideboarding.
- Counterspell is one of the most interesting adds in last months to this deck. I agree that sometimes it sucks, but you have Brainstorm to send it away. In other matchups, it is all-star (Miracles etc.). It deck would not hold 2 copies, but one is fine and you should give it a chance :-)
- It is very necessary to see your sideboard to comment the deck as a whole. Sylvan Library is one of the best green cards ever printed, but it is a question, whether to put it in the maindeck. The same with the Loam - do you have Barbarian Ring in the SB? All these notes are dependent on your sideboard.¨
Bye to the Southern America :-)
Thanks for your reply :)Quote:
Originally Posted by fapsik
My sideboard plan is:
3 x Pyroblast
2 x TNN
2 X Surgical Extraction
1 x Null Rod
1 x Pithing Needle
1 x Flusterstorm
1 x Winter Orb
1 x Sulfur Elemental
1 x Ancient Grudge
1 x Forked bolt
1 x Barbarian Ring
I agree with the point that if I played with SB, and put in the 2 TNN, maybe I'll don't miss some finishers in the matchup. My fault.
About the Counterspell, I'll give another try. I agree that in the Miracles mtachup, this could be a good one.
Yeap. I have a Barbarian Ring in the SB. But if I cut the Loam from the MD, I'll cut de Barbarian Ring from the SB too.
And about the Library? Any thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nola
I undestrand your local metagame choices, but generally I would see these changes in your mind:
- cut the MD Library and add one more Spell Snare
- cut the second Extraction in SB (one is usually enough together with the counterspells) and Pithing Needle to add the Library and I would add another Winter Orb, which one of the best SB cards
But all these details depends on your style and preferences, and on the local metagame of course :-)
Hey friends,
Death & Taxes/Punishing Jund player checking in here. After acquiring Force of Wills I'm looking at building a blue deck of some kind, and the tempo thresh playstyle really appeals to me. Is there a reason to play RUG Delver over the Stifle BUG builds in the current meta? For reference, my local meta consists of Miracles, Lands, BUG Delver, True-Name/Leovold BUG, BR Reanimator, ANT, and a smattering of a ton of other decks. Also, is there a more recent or more accurate primer that I should look at over the one at the top of the first page? I've just got a ton of questions and I feel like a recent primer would be the best place to get them answered.
Cheers!
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyxviii
first - if you want to get to the idea of current Canadian Threshold, look here: https://theweeklywars.wordpress.com/...eshold-primer/ -- the author also writes about other shifts in this deck. Even about Dark Thresh: https://theweeklywars.wordpress.com/...lk-into-a-bar/
I have been playing both RUG and BUG Threshold decks and I have comments for you:
- BUG colors bring you Deathrite Shaman, Fatal Push, Painful Truths and Abrupt Decay, which are the most imporant adds. These three colors tends to be more controlish and midrangy and you must count with it. It is the way they are.
- RUG colors gives you Lightning Bolt and Pyroblasts/REB. The Bolt is sometimes taken as replaced by Fatal Push, but the possibility of shooting to player is unreplaceable in this kind of tempo deck. Also the Blasts gives you great answers to Jace and to other blue cards, including their Force of Will, True-Name Nemesis and so on.
- But the main point is: you should choose whatever you wish to play and try it. Each version is bind with a style and strategy. It cannot be decided by theory, but by practice.
have fun!
f.
Any tips to the DnT matchup? Here is the list I am currently running.
// 60 Maindeck
// 11 Creature
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Hooting Mandrills
1 True-Name Nemesis
// 25 Instant
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Dismember
// 6 Sorcery
4 Ponder
2 Forked Bolt
// 18 Land
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
SB: 2 Winter Orb
SB: 1 True-Name Nemesis
SB: 1 Grim Lavamancer
SB: 1 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Submerge
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Destructive Revelry
I currently own 73 of the 75 I would like to play. I'm just missing 1 Volcanic Island and 1 Tropical Island from the manabase. What do you folks recommend in their place? Is it better to run basic Islands (Wasteland-proof, fine to Daze with) or shocklands for more access to red and green?
Shocklands; any game in which you draw basic island you need 2 more lands in play to get red and green mana and this downside generally outweighs the moon-proof / waste-proof upside.Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyxviii
How do you guys think the Top ban will affect us?
I was running multiple winter orbs and spell snares before; thinking about switching most of those for DRS hate and maybe more combo hate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye_Mongoose
Outside of one of the more interesting matchups having left the field, it's going to be hard to predict how decks will evolve to fill vacuum that is terminus.
I'd expect a rise in combo and aggro decks, so things like cursed totem and rough/tumble in the board probably buys you more value.
The strength of nimble mongoose is directly proportional to StP - it's probably safe to trim 1-2 of the guys to try out new things.
SCM and clique are debatable, but probably useful in the right rooms. Burn #7-8, or a bounce spell can be great as well.
I think the meta will end up settling with an attrition deck (bug/food chain), combo deck (storm/gy), and a aggro deck (elves/goblins). SB accordingly.
I think for the short term, Strix and DRS will run rampant, so i dont think this will make RUG great again... Maybe years down the road there will be a DRS ban, then we can all party in the street.
An uptick in combo (which i dont know why this will happen, but a lot of people seem to think it will), is great for RUG.
Already, the best way to combat Miracles was Chalice and Combo, so i'm not sure why people think both those type of deck will suddenly go nuts...
Seems like there may be an uptick in small creature decks that were weak to Miracles (e.g. Elves, Maverick, Stoneforge variants, possibly even stuff such as Zoo, Goblins, Merfolk, etc.). Wouldn't Grim Lavamancer be worth considering again? Obviously he's a non-bo with Nimble Mongoose, but you can make adjustments to mitigate the issue (e.g. Thought Scour). Alternatively, Forked Bolt is really good in a metagame full of small creatures.
Years ago, I was a big fan of playing RUG with 3 Chain Lightning and 3-4 Spell Snare in the flex slots. Having lots of Burn helped close out games that your creatures couldn't manage, and Spell Snare was fantastic at answering the majority of problem cards in the format. It may be worth going back to that if UWx Control adopts Stoneforge Mystic.
Of course, Spell Snare is weak against Sneak and Show (which will continue to be the format's premiere combo deck), but RUG is fairly well situated against that deck thanks to its sideboard Flusterstorms and Pyroblasts.
Deathrite Shaman still presents a problem for RUG, but it's not nearly as big of a problem as Miracles.format was. RUG simply needs to run more removal. Grixis *might* be the superior tempo deck, but Mongoose especially is good against a format that's leaning on Swords to Plowshares. I guess we'll just have to see how the format shakes up. Good riddance to Top, Terminus, Counterbalance, and Entreat the Angels!
I feel like this gives the Loam/Barbarian Ring package a nice boost. Ive been maining 2 loam 1 ring with 1 ring in the side and i feel better about it now. Gonna stock up on forked bolts now for sure too. Not sure if cutting Spell Snare is correct but i want at least 2 maybe even 3 forked bolt in the 75.
Any thoughts on dropping Mongoose entirely and going toward a build closer to Gianluca Gazzola's top 8 list from Prague last year?
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/430198#online
Don't get me wrong, I love Goose. It WAS the reason to play the deck - but is it still? It was our trump card against Miracles, and yes, with Terminus gone, it's even harder to kill now than before. But is it worth it if we're just going to sit down across from DRS piles for the foreseeable future?
What if we sideline Goose entirely and put in some combination of resilient late game threats (which was always the goal with Goose anyway) and maindeck Grim Lavamancers (which no longer needs to fight for graveyard fuel AND is superb at killing DRS and other small creatures).
Lastly - because we no longer run Mongoose, can we maybe justify putting a Jitte in the sideboard? A 4 mana sorcery speed investment that gets blanked by removal isn't great, but we all know how well a Jitte can run away with a game, especially if we say, strap it to a TNN. Just a thought.
Here's a rough draft of a decklist:
4 Delver
4 Goyf
2 Grim
2 TNN/Mandrills
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Bolt
2 Flex removal
4 Daze
4 Force
4 Stifle
2 Pierce
2 Snare
18 lands
Meta-dependent sideboard, but worth testing Jitte here I think.
From what I have seen, Nimble Mongoose is definitely not something I want to cut. I'm not sure if I want to cut my Orbs; there's a decent amount of Swords + Snapcaster decks still. There is a lot of Storm, so room should likely be made for sideboard Null Rod. Grixis appears to be the second most common deck; so I'm not opposed to playing all creatures that don't die to Bolt. I have not played against Decay and Push a lot, maybe Tarmogoyf is reasonable. Elves seems to be common, but I have only faced it once in 7 leagues, whereas others have report a bigger presence. Maybe you want sweepers vs. them, maybe LoamPit is good enough. If Maverick is making a comeback, I want Submerges again. Adding an extra removal spell to the maindeck is not unreasonable (7 total, maybe also LoamRing).
(I have not played Canadian yet in this format because it's not proactive enough to play at this point.)
Hey,
I'm a Maverick player, with the deck mosty finished, but I also have almost no expensive staples outside of Maverick like FoW or duals.
Canadian Threshold is a deck that I've been eyeing for quite some time, and that I'd like to buy over time.
Given that I have no U dual land, cards like Daze don't work quite as well, so buying the core of the deck without the duals doesn't seem like a great idea.
How would you suggest I buy over time, and do you think that a version without duals is playable ?
Get the manabase first. The lands open you up to be able to play tons of other decks should things change in the future. You also can't go wrong with staples like Force of Will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockeid
Update on the theory post from yesterday: I ran a version of this through a league and managed to go 3-2, beating three decks containing DRS (4c Delver, Elves, and Food Chain), and losing to Manaless Dredge and RB Reanimator. Some numbers still need some tinkering, but if anyone is interested, the full list and stream archive can be found here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoe555
Sadly that was what I was expecting, and it probably means not playing it for quite a while since I'd probably be needing at the very least one of each (and likely more than that) which is quite an investment, which I wanted to do over time while still being able to play the deck a bit.
Yo, 'sup guys? I've had an itch to play Canadian again in the new format and I quite enjoyed it. I'm back to recording videos and the second league I played was with an updated, unusual version of Canadian. The YouTube playlist will be updated with new matches each day for the rest of week. If you'd like to see more content with Canadian or Dark Thresh, definitely let me know and I might just record another batch of videos.
In case you just want the list, this is what I played:
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Hooting Mandrills
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
4 Daze
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
1 Life from the Loam
4 Ponder
//Sideboard:
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
2 Trygon Predator
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Invasive Surgery
1 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Barbarian Ring
2 Duress
Nice
This looks interesting can't wait to watch this in action!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I like that trygon predator
Lavamancer does seem really good in the new metagame. When Innistrad first came out I played a standard Canadian Thresh list subbing Delver for Mongoose, plus 2 Lavamen in the old flex slots that used to be Cliques. I'd probably add 1 or 2 TNN to the creature suite as well, now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoe555
Trygon Predator? What is this, Vintage? :D
I suppose it's good at sniping equipment and Chalices while getting in for some extra points of damage, but I'm not sure it's better than Grudge when you don't have Moxen and shops pieces to eat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
im confused why mongoose is being cut now?
People don't want to run Mongoose because Deathrite Shaman is running rampant now and it becomes hard for players to achieve threshold when DRS is eating your graveyard the whole game.Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchadanno
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFrowny_
Indeed, this is why people are doing it, but it's not a good reason to cut Nimble Mongoose. Instead, it's a good reason to play more removal. Our mana denial deck does not want a mana dork in play. You're not likely to win games where they have a Deathrite active the entire time.
That is not why I cut them.
I was debating testing with Harsh Mentor in Gooses' place. trying it in stifle grixis at the moment, but I think the forcing of fetching/DRS activations will get some damage through (and it frees your own removal up if you want them to keep activating DRS, though I don't know if that's wise..)
I do like the Grim plan, and could also see it if the deck moved to 2-3 Grim, 2 Snap, and just started burning people/players a bit more. Mandrills seems fine since it dodges everything but Plow; but I'm just not big on a dude who is smaller than Goyf being a non-evasive on-the-ground beater. he gets around TNN, which is nice, but that almost makes him a sideboard card.
Swiftspear has mild potential too I think; given that she gets passed 70% of the format with a single spell.
It's not solely because of deathrite. It's because of deathrite, true name, baleful strix, leovold, eldrazi, etc., but most importantly, lack of miracles in the format. Just not the right meta for the goose.
All these cards are in decks Mongoose is great against, it's more about the stupid combo decks that you want Deathrite and fast beatz against.
I'm not sure if it is a play style thing or not (or perhaps a metagame thing), but my win rate is significantly lower with mongoose (post miracles banning). Without miracles I have been having greater success playing a full suite of goyfs (which strix pumps to be 5 power) and true names.
Interesting that you say you like Goyf, first time I've heard that in a while. I'm gonna try a Delver/Mandrills/True-Name split when I find the time, that looks promising in the current metagame as you get fast beats, evasion and hard to kill creatures all at the same time.
In other news, my YouTube playlist playing the Deathrite version is now complete: Click.