[Primer] R/G Lands

So I've been testing w/ the black splash 3 decay/vortex list and I feel pretty comfortable with it going into my GPT next weekend. But I have this unflinching desire to want to play 2 Gitrog monster main. I can't explain it, it's something I'm having a hard time dealing w/. Lol.

what are people's thoughts? I feel like he's hard enough to kill that if he eats a StP instead of marit lage I'm ok with that. He doesn't die to decay and has to be double bolted.

In the mirror, he is rediculous. The CA is insane.

Has anyone done serious testing with him?

Shawn

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Originally Posted by SMRiggin

So I've been testing w/ the black splash 3 decay/vortex list and I feel pretty comfortable with it going into my GPT next weekend. But I have this unflinching desire to want to play 2 Gitrog monster main. I can't explain it, it's something I'm having a hard time dealing w/. Lol.

what are people's thoughts? I feel like he's hard enough to kill that if he eats a StP instead of marit lage I'm ok with that. He doesn't die to decay and has to be double bolted.

In the mirror, he is rediculous. The CA is insane.

Has anyone done serious testing with him?

Shawn

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I've wanted to play with that card since it's been spoiled. I feel like at least game one you want to mostly focus on getting the combo out which involves lots of dredging which is very counterintuitive against casting creatures. Unless you have it in your opening hand I don't see you casting it that often game one. Maybe I'm wrong here. @gigapatrick have you tried this card yet? I'm assuming you have lands built in paper as well as online.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by SMRiggin

So I've been testing w/ the black splash 3 decay/vortex list and I feel pretty comfortable with it going into my GPT next weekend. But I have this unflinching desire to want to play 2 Gitrog monster main. I can't explain it, it's something I'm having a hard time dealing w/. Lol.

what are people's thoughts? I feel like he's hard enough to kill that if he eats a StP instead of marit lage I'm ok with that. He doesn't die to decay and has to be double bolted.

In the mirror, he is rediculous. The CA is insane.

Has anyone done serious testing with him?

Shawn

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I haven't tested him, so take my words with a grain of salt.

But Gitrog reminds me most of Primeval Titan: a big body that's also a source of cardadvantage, more or less independant of the graveyard.
Like CovenantElite30, I think you shouldn't play it main as there's loam for cardadvantage and Marit for the body, and I'd be afraid to dredge it away as well.
But as a postboard card Primetime is probably better, as he's totally independant of the graveyard (RIP would stop Gitrog from triggering) and is both cardadvantage and -selection.
So if you want this type of card in your 75, I'd include Primetime over Gitrog.

On Gitrog:

Completely agreed with Rivfader. If you want a giant creature with card advantage in your 75, Prime Time looks better than Gitrog, as Prime Time gets advantage immediately and finds exactly what you need for the given situation. Gitrog does cost one mana less, but as Rivfader says, if you're fighting RIP, he's no good. Also, you HAVE to sacrifice a land during your upkeep. That sounds pretty awful to me.

I was trying a build last night splashing black.

I played 1 manabound and 1 sylvan libary in the main. Played out pretty well.

I took out 1 crop rotation and 1 exploration for those cards.

Wanted to ask the group if maybe I should be playing the 4 explorations and try and cut another car for the manabound.

Manabound feels super powerful in your opening hand and/or when you have the loam lock in place.

@gigapatrick have you had any experience with these 2 cards in the main?

@ CovenantElite30: I think it is suffice to say we all have experience with up to teo Manabond in the MB. It can give some explosive starts, I remember having multiple t2 kills. Not sure it is the best card in RGb, but that's just me.

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Originally Posted by CovenantElite30

I was trying a build last night splashing black.

I played 1 manabound and 1 sylvan libary in the main. Played out pretty well.

I took out 1 crop rotation and 1 exploration for those cards.

Wanted to ask the group if maybe I should be playing the 4 explorations and try and cut another car for the manabound.

Manabound feels super powerful in your opening hand and/or when you have the loam lock in place.

@gigapatrick have you had any experience with these 2 cards in the main?

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I would never cut a exploration, it may be the best card in the deck. Manabond can be great, but it can also be awkward if you have a hand that needs to keep a card that can't be brought back from the graveyard. The acceleration from an exploration will win you more games then dropping a manabond on t1 or t2. Crop rotation is also extremely important in a lot of match ups and another card I wouldn't want less then 4 of. I am not saying you shouldn't play manabond or library, but there are other cards I would cut first. Just my 0.02.

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Originally Posted by Chatto

@ CovenantElite30: I think it is suffice to say we all have experience with up to teo Manabond in the MB. It can give some explosive starts, I remember having multiple t2 kills. Not sure it is the best card in RGb, but that's just me.

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Pretty much my point. There is just some games that you can't discard your whole hand to drop your lands.

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Originally Posted by Domri Rade

I would never cut a exploration, it may be the best card in the deck. Manabond can be great, but it can also be awkward if you have a hand that needs to keep a card that can't be brought back from the graveyard. The acceleration from an exploration will win you more games then dropping a manabond on t1 or t2. Crop rotation is also extremely important in a lot of match ups and another card I wouldn't want less then 4 of. I am not saying you shouldn't play manabond or library, but there are other cards I would cut first. Just my 0.02.

edit:

Pretty much my point. There is just some games that you can't discard your whole hand to drop your lands.

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What cards would you suggest cutting from my list?

And yes I play 61 cards main deck. I just find that the 61st card doesn't affect lands as much as it would affect other decks.


Instants [9]
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Crop Rotation
3 Punishing Fire

Sorceries [8]
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam

Enchantments [4]
3 Exploration
1 Manabound
1 Sylvan Library

Artifacts [4]
4 Mox Diamond

Lands [35]
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Misty Rainforest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Windswept Heath
2 Taiga
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Dark Depths
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland

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Originally Posted by CovenantElite30

What cards would you suggest cutting from my list?

And yes I play 61 cards main deck. I just find that the 61st card doesn't affect lands as much as it would affect other decks.


Instants [9]
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Crop Rotation
3 Punishing Fire

Sorceries [8]
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam

Enchantments [4]
3 Exploration
1 Manabound
1 Sylvan Library

Artifacts [4]
4 Mox Diamond

Lands [35]
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Misty Rainforest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Windswept Heath
2 Taiga
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Dark Depths
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland

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I have never tried out a build with abrupt decay + punishing fire. Most people find that 3 decay + 3 molten vortex is enough to deal with whatever creatures or threats your opponents can throw at you. I would personally cut manabond first, but if you like the card and want it in the deck to try and nut draw people you could probably cut 1 punishing fire and either ghost quarter / urborg and go up to 4 exploration and 4 crop rotate. The only times ghost quarter has been great for me is against 3-4 color delver decks, and I don't like to turn my opponents fetch lands into mana sources with urborg. Although you need to get it in your graveyard you could try out riftstone portal instead.

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Originally Posted by CovenantElite30

@gigapatrick have you had any experience with these 2 cards in the main?

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I've never run Sylvan Library main, but I've run it out the board, and it rules. If you're running RG, and don't want to run three Choke or two Boil and a Boseiju in the board, then I'd run three Library instead.

Manabond is of course fantastic. Love the card but don't think it can work in the splash build since you won't want to discard Abrupt Decay. Edit: If you want to play Manabond, you should just play RG, I'd say.

So, Invasive Surgery....

I've been thinking about where that card could show up and I don't think there are enough decks capable of enabling delirium fast enough for it to be good.

RUG/4c Delver and infect seem like the most likely possibilities but even then they'll probably have to trade off resources before enabling the extraction clause. Reanimator is a possibility too but I hardly ever see that anymore. I'm cautiously optimistic that we won't see it very often despite it being tailor-made to be annoying. It's also helpful that it only answers loam and can't deal with fires or vortexes.

I think people will try out invasive and find that it is pretty narrow to keep more than a copy in a board. It has the most effect against us, so if someone is scared of lands, then maybe they would include more of them. Against burn or reanimator it seems like you would never have delirium fast enough to be effective, and only countering sorcery spells means that I don't think there is any way that anyone main boards the spell.

Many decks that would play it would play RIP or surgical/extirpate which have far wider match impact.

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Originally Posted by heckler

I think people will try out invasive and find that it is pretty narrow to keep more than a copy in a board. It has the most effect against us, so if someone is scared of lands, then maybe they would include more of them. Against burn or reanimator it seems like you would never have delirium fast enough to be effective, and only countering sorcery spells means that I don't think there is any way that anyone main boards the spell.

Many decks that would play it would play RIP or surgical/extirpate which have far wider match impact.

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Don't worry about Invasive Surgery. Envelop has been legal for years and saw only very fringe play in Show & Tell heavy metas. Splashing blue for Invasive Surgery is also horrible. Play Flusterstorm instead.

I just started playing with the black splash in lands and was wondering what matchups if any are people boarding in Dark Confidant besides miracle? Or is that really the only matchup that you would bring him in for?

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Originally Posted by Domri Rade

I just started playing with the black splash in lands and was wondering what matchups if any are people boarding in Dark Confidant besides miracle? Or is that really the only matchup that you would bring him in for?

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Speaking from rug lands, i board in confidant against any deck that activly tries to disrupt the yard, or has really good ways of interacting with loam. Most white decks are fine to board it in against because of rest in peace, and a lot of bug lists have issues getting rid of it as well

I went 4-0 tonight at my LGS with a pretty regular G/R build(4 depths, 2 maze, bojuka MB).

my SB was

4 sphere
1 thorn
4 krosan
2 chalice
2 worm harvest
1 boseiju
1 karakas (took it out of MB a couple weeks ago)

Rd1: U/B mill/discard - game1 I developed a wasteland lock. g2 I kept thicket open and was cautious. He eventually surgical'd dark depths so a sphere in play and many ports put me on a Pfire plan while keeping his mana tapped down to prevent another surgical. I had maybe 12 cards left in my deck.

Rd2: eldrazi. G1 I made a 20/20 on turn 2. G2 he laid 2 leyline of the void on me. I had lucky draws into a 2nd krosan and a 2nd maze of ith. eventually a 8/8 endless one and 2 TKS were attacking but worm harvest tokens were blocking. I kept drawing while thawing out depths until I found a stage. Afterwards I found out he was doing a sneaky helm of obedience combo with the leylines, he just never drew the helm.

Rd3: elves. G1 I keep a hand with taiga, wasteland, port, maze, crop rotation x 3. It almost comes back to bite me as I get out early tabernacle but he draws a cradle and is able to pay. he natural orders a craterhoof and attacks but maze keeps me at 8 life. go to 7 to fetch and wasteland cradle. he then builds again and I draw into stage. he attacks again and i rotate into combo and block the monster and maze an elf. he natural orders elf into the reach guy that deals 6 damage when you cast a spell and casts some elves. I attack with marit lage and that guy has reach and blocks. I crop rotate into another maze to hold off small elves and finish the game. In g2 I played a chalice on 1 followed by a sphere. he scoops after some missed land drops.

Rd4: BUG delver: G1 I win after stabalizing at 10 life with a Pfire lock and some potential wasteland recursion. G2 he lays the beats and I dredge several times and find absolutely no answers. G3 i waste him off of 2 lands and try to establish loam lock. he keeps me off of it with counters for a little bit but I eventually get through; I think he could have played it a bit differently (he had 4-5 other cards) but he thought stifle would work on dredge and so held up a blue mana to do it.


Overall I only lost 1 game the whole night. I wanted to try out worm harvest more, but I couldn't justify bringing it in against anyone but the eldrazi matchup.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Chains is a bad fit for Lands sadly.

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If you really want to taste your own commit, try running Chains with Sylvan Library. I'll never do that again!

Edit - I do like Nether Void sometimes though.

Ok guys need your help. Going to be playing Legacy FNM tonight for the second time with my lands deck.

The first time didn't go so well. Anyway based on my list and sideboard what changes do you guys suggest I make based on my meta?

My meta mostly D&T / Stoneforge decks, Burn, some elves and the rest a delver variant. But it seems like every deck has stoneforge (D&T, RW D&T, Esper Stoneblade, Mavrick)

MAIN:
Instants [9]
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Crop Rotation
3 Punishing Fire

Sorceries [8]
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam

Enchantments [4]
4 Exploration

Artifacts [4]
4 Mox Diamond

Lands [35]
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Misty Rainforest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Windswept Heath
2 Taiga
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Dark Depths
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Dark Confidant
1 Karakas
2 Krosan Grip
3 Thoughtseize
2 Choke
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Zuran Orb

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Originally Posted by Domri Rade

I just started playing with the black splash in lands and was wondering what matchups if any are people boarding in Dark Confidant besides miracle? Or is that really the only matchup that you would bring him in for?

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Any matchup where you can afford to trade some life for some cards.
Shardless BUG, Miracles, Stoneblade, Maverick, and Death and Taxes are all matchups that immediately come to mind. I don't think it's totally wrong to play him against delver decks either, but it's definitely debatable. They daze, they lose tempo, they force, they lose cards, they abrupt decay, they have one less for more important permanents like exploration, mox, or vortex. There could even be a case made for any matchup that you must aggressively mulligan for something in your sideboard since Bob can unmulligan you to keep you in the game after you slam your hate piece.
I'm also interested in how other people board with Bob, since I might be a bit too sweet on him for my own good

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Originally Posted by Domri Rade

I just started playing with the black splash in lands and was wondering what matchups if any are people boarding in Dark Confidant besides miracle? Or is that really the only matchup that you would bring him in for?

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I would like to know how people board wit a standard RGb-SB. Lot is pretty obvious, maybe there are some Secret Tech I missed.

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Originally Posted by Crimhead

Edit - I do like Nether Void sometimes though.

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Nether Void is the Bomb! Too bad it's 4cmc. It do-able, but it's a lot.

so my LGS meta is becoming extremely combo happy. Last night half of the room was a variant of storm. then also add a reanimator & mono red sneak attack and you're looking a bad night for me.

is my only hope the discard/black splash build? I'm currently playing RG w/ a board containing 2 chalices and 4 spheres for combo...it wasnt enough.

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Originally Posted by djxstream

so my LGS meta is becoming extremely combo happy. Last night half of the room was a variant of storm. then also add a reanimator & mono red sneak attack and you're looking a bad night for me.

is my only hope the discard/black splash build? I'm currently playing RG w/ a board containing 2 chalices and 4 spheres for combo...it wasnt enough.

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You should be fine with 2 chalice of the void and 4 spheres.

Mulligan better, or play the white splash for Ethersworn Canonist and Gaddock Teeg. :)

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Originally Posted by djxstream

so my LGS meta is becoming extremely combo happy. Last night half of the room was a variant of storm. then also add a reanimator & mono red sneak attack and you're looking a bad night for me.

is my only hope the discard/black splash build? I'm currently playing RG w/ a board containing 2 chalices and 4 spheres for combo...it wasnt enough.

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If you're running RG, and you expect a combo-heavy meta, then play seven hate permanents in the board. I'd run a combination of six Sphere/Chalice effects and one Phyrexian Revoker to name Griseldad, Sneak Attack, and Lion's Eye Diamond. I don't actually think discard improves the combo matchup that much. I've lost to combo decks with discard and without. Just pack all the hate you can and expect to only get there half the time (or less).

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Originally Posted by djxstream

so my LGS meta is becoming extremely combo happy. Last night half of the room was a variant of storm. then also add a reanimator & mono red sneak attack and you're looking a bad night for me.

is my only hope the discard/black splash build? I'm currently playing RG w/ a board containing 2 chalices and 4 spheres for combo...it wasnt enough.

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Lands might be a poor choice for that meta. Sounds like a job for miracles or delver. If you have no choice but to play lands, barcode's suggestion to splash white is probably best. Also if half of the room is fast combo, you can probably dedicate more of your sideboard slots to things that can fight it.

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Originally Posted by barcode

You should be fine with 2 chalice of the void and 4 spheres.

Mulligan better, or play the white splash for Ethersworn Canonist and Gaddock Teeg. :)

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Actually saying mulligan better reminded me to ask this as well....game 3, on the draw vs doomsday storm. I pull this 7:

Fetch
Gamble
Gamble
Sphere
Dark Depths
Exploration
Exploration


...I threw it back because only 1 mana to work with...but now think it was the wrong decision cause at the worst I could of gambled for a chalice on T1, then hopefully between t1 and t2 draws...get a mana land to drop the sphere.

So I threw it back and got 4 lands and 2 crops including the combo pieces. kept it. was a turn too slow, opponent combo'd out with my 4 lands on the board.

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Originally Posted by djxstream

Actually saying mulligan better reminded me to ask this as well....game 3, on the draw vs doomsday storm. I pull this 7:

Fetch
Gamble
Gamble
Sphere
Dark Depths
Exploration
Exploration


...I threw it back because only 1 mana to work with...but now think it was the wrong decision cause at the worst I could of gambled for a chalice on T1, then hopefully between t1 and t2 draws...get a mana land to drop the sphere.

So I threw it back and got 4 lands and 2 crops including the combo pieces. kept it. was a turn too slow, opponent combo'd out with my 4 lands on the board.

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It looks clunky, but with Chalice in the deck, I'd keep. Gamble for Chalice, hope to keep it and Sphere, drop Chalice on zero, hope to draw land soon for Sphere. I mean, Gamble's a gamble, so you could get scrag-dogged, but you probably won't. Even if you lose the Sphere, you've still got Chalice on zero. Against Storm, that can be good enough sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Djehuti

Lands might be a poor choice for that meta. Sounds like a job for miracles or delver. If you have no choice but to play lands, barcode's suggestion to splash white is probably best. Also if half of the room is fast combo, you can probably dedicate more of your sideboard slots to things that can fight it.

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lands is all i currently own, so yeah I may just tune the board to be a little more lopsided.

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Originally Posted by gigapatrick

If you're running RG, and you expect a combo-heavy meta, then play seven hate permanents in the board. I'd run a combination of six Sphere/Chalice effects and one Phyrexian Revoker to name Griseldad, Sneak Attack, and Lion's Eye Diamond. I don't actually think discard improves the combo matchup that much. I've lost to combo decks with discard and without. Just pack all the hate you can and expect to only get there half the time (or less).

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adding revovkers might be a good touch. thanks!

Went 3-0-1 last match we ID. Manabound is crazy good. Won me 2 games on turn 3. I side it out every game though. It's a great card on the play.

I beat Burn 2-1, Jeskia deliver 2-0, Esper Stoneblade 2-0.

Burn was probably the most difficult match of the night.

I felt like I had to race the deck of just lose.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

when against burn you either need to race them, or lock them out with glacial chasm.

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Nether Void is the Bomb! Too bad it's 4cmc. It do-able, but it's a lot.

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I've been running 3-1 split of Sphere of Resistance and Nether Void in RUGb and have been happy with it.

I'm still playing around with RGb, and haven't had much chance to test yet. For now I will definitely be cutting Chains but keeping Nether Void in that build.

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Originally Posted by Crimhead

I've been running 3-1 split of Sphere of Resistance and Nether Void in RUGb and have been happy with it.

I'm still playing around with RGb, and haven't had much chance to test yet. For now I will definitely be cutting Chains but keeping Nether Void in that build.

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Can we get a decklist?


How's your league coming @Gigapatrick ?

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Originally Posted by CovenantElite30

How's your league coming @Gigapatrick ?

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Three videos recorded. Probably post the whole set by Tuesday or Wednesday.

Sell me/stop me!

Should I buy into RGb lands, or is it a Flavor of the Month kind of deck(I also am on a much more strict budget than when I initially bought the deck, so budget friendly options are encouraged). This is for GP Columbus.

I think it depends on your Meta. Having access to Decay in the main, giving you outs to unforeseen issues is not something to overlook. If you are having to deal with Painter, Miracles or Eldrazi then yes and if your going to a GP, two of those options are likely.

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Originally Posted by FieryPoops

Sell me/stop me!

Should I buy into RGb lands, or is it a Flavor of the Month kind of deck(I also am on a much more strict budget than when I initially bought the deck, so budget friendly options are encouraged). This is for GP Columbus.

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To me it doesn't feel like a 'Flavor of the Month', it's nice to be able to react post-board. However, I already had all the neccesary cards to splash, so it's was an easy transformation to RGb. I really can't help you here, to be honest, but let me put it this way: buying Duals is never a bad option.

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Originally Posted by Chatto

To me it doesn't feel like a 'Flavor of the Month', it's nice to be able to react post-board. However, I already had all the neccesary cards to splash, so it's was an easy transformation to RGb. I really can't help you here, to be honest, but let me put it this way: buying Duals is never a bad option.

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Tbh it isn't the duals that are an issue for me, I already have those. It's the Thoughtseize and Dark Confidants.

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Originally Posted by FieryPoops

Tbh it isn't the duals that are an issue for me, I already have those. It's the Thoughtseize and Dark Confidants.

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I don't think you need the black splash to be competitive.

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Originally Posted by barcode

I don't think you need the black splash to be competitive.

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Totally agree, I keep the cards for both builds of the deck in the same box now though, just in case I want to flip. I like the Decays in the main but dam I wish they have flashback or something.

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Originally Posted by barcode

I don't think you need the black splash to be competitive.

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Yeah I agree. A lot depends on the meta.

I currently play the black splash with p-fire and abrupt main and love it.

I had a late game top deck abrupt decay when me a game / match.

But on the other hand the straight R/G version can be more consistent and combo much faster, so its a give and take.

Side note, has anyone tried the new SOI card Tireless Tracker? I saw a list over the weekend had one in the sideboard.

Card seems pretty good against those grindy decks.