How is this in testing? It seems powerful but so very narrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx
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How is this in testing? It seems powerful but so very narrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx
Fantastic. I'm kind of frustrated no one has picked it up yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
I've picked up for of them just to have a try, but I haven't found time to test them properly.
They look pretty powerfull and fit into the general strategy because of protecting nought. However they are a terrible topdeck when you are in need of something resolutive or simply in absence of nought on the table.
Actually my question is: is it worth taking the risk of a bad topdeck?
It looks like the danger of cool things.
Counterbalance already protects Phyrexian Dreadnought. Adding in another card just to protect him, and that has no other valid purpose in the deck, is a mistake. The one situation where it's good is the turn 2 nought and you win the vast majority of those games anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by spartan117
Perish might just be in the top 5 best cards in the format right now. This deck is not dead.
I went 4-0 in my local tournament(Magic Corner; Vienna, Austria this weekend 8-0 in games. I played Van Phanel's list with the following changes:
-1 Dreadnought
-1 Trickbind
-1 Island
+2 Grim Lavamancer
+1 Volcanic Island
I played against:
Dragon Stompy
Dredge
Bant+NoPro
Ubrg Painter/Grind
I definitely got a bit lucky as my opponents seemed to have bad draws all day long. The Grim's caused havoc all day shooting Magus of the Moon, Ichorid's, QP's, Hierarchs, Bob's and Trinket Mages.
IMO Lavamancers may again make Dreadstill very relevant.
Mind posting a full list? I am very interested in the style of this deck. Turning that 12/12 and trampling over basicly anything they can try and put in front of it seems very fun. I was thinking about main deck firespout as i expected alot of aggro in my meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzykat
Also is this deck still as strong to play? Before standstill was a auto 4x of now it doesnt seem to be as played?
@kingsey:
Welcome to the source.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...azaar-of-Moxen
The deck has game but I wouldn't go out of my way to build it, unless you really like it. I think there are more powerful and/or cheaper decks out there that put up as good or better numbers.
Maindecked firespout is actually pretty sexy I messed with main decking it for a while it was pretty good. This deck is still very strong only expensive :P. Standstill is still a auto 4x include in this deck the card is still nutty.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsey
Here's my list for reference:
// Lands
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
3 [TE] Wasteland
5 [7E] Island (2)
1 [A] Tropical Island
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [U] Volcanic Island
// Creatures
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
// Spells
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [DD2] Daze
2 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [CS] Counterbalance
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [OD] Standstill
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 3 [A] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [SHM] Firespout
SB: 3 [U] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
With the new outbreak of Perish maybe go -1 Trop +1 U-Sea
-1 Spell Pierce -1 BEB +2 Perish in board
Well price is not really my objection anymore. I've already made eva green just looking for a consistent tier 1 deck. I like the style of dreadstill alot. Also a fan of somthing with natural order for the 10/10 pro everything guy, or is reanimaete simply the best deck?Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzykat
@Rood
I like your list , it is very similar to mine but my meta has A LOT of KGrips so I just stopped playing dreadstill because I could not find a eficient way to deal with Kgrip, do you have any suggestion?I really like this deck and got some good results with it in the past but now I just can't trust on it for long tornaments.
KGrip is one of the first things when playing Dreadstill you must address. It still is...and always will be top of cards to look out for when playing Dreadstill. Efficient ways to deal with Kgrip for me I can normally bait them out with a key card they must deal with like a Counterbalance. Sometimes you really have to try to deny them their green mana source to cut them off from being able to access Grip via Wastelands/Stifles. If you're having trouble playing around Grip I'd suggest possible running Ugr GoyfDreadstill. Still a very potent deck, and must easier to play around Kgrip then Ur.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimi
.
Went 4-1 in a local tournament with 20-ish participants this week.
List for reference:
1 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
4 Mishras Factory
4 Island
6 Fetch
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Phyreixan Dreadnaought
3 Trinket Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
3 Spell Snare
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
4 Standstill
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB:
2 Firespout
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormods Crypt
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Blood Moon
R1: Merfolk 2-1. He won the first rather easy. (vial and lords ftw) the Two games that followed was in my favor thanks to 3 Reb, 3 Bolts, 2 Firespout. Took out Standstill and counterbalance and jace.
R2: Merfolk again 2-0. This time around I won on a mind game. The tells from his parts where obvious and he was a bit insecure on the rule parts so I explained to him that it was fully legal to use the stifle he had in hand to counter the EE activation. (he had Lord, a couple of silvergills and a mutavault in play. I had nought 2 mishra and an EE on 2. Second game he keept a bad hand i guess, so i just ran over him with the same boarding as above.
R3: Sneak Attack 2-1. He ran a dragon stompy shell, he won the first game easy, turning Dragon Tyrrant sideways with mana to pump is good. Second game i won rather tight with him having Challice on 1 and 2 in play. Mishra beatdown ftw. Third game I won a rather tight one as well. The only thing that made me win was Trickbinding Akroma, Angel of Furys pump ability.
R4: Threashold. 2-0. Nothing in particular. I won first rather easy, second game he brings in Krosan, and I wastelock him with my sb crucible of worlds.
R5: Iona Survival. 0-2. He runs me over in the first game, seing him only having non-basics in play game 1, I board in Blood Moon. Next game he fetch for basics instead. The games went back and forward, but he had the upper hand all the time.
Ahh well. €15 in store credit for a second place.
Played a 4-round tourney on saturday. 20-ish people.
1st round against Mono B Aggro: First game I play it safe in fear of removal, which he had alot. Top-Balance handless all of his removal and Nought gets the job done. I did not see any creatures so I assume he has something like Tombstalker or what ever so I don't side bolts or firespouts or EE:s... Next game he starts with two Bitter blossoms which I EE away. Next comes 2x Hypnotic Specter and I can't really do anything anymore. In comes all the hate and I win easily the third game. (2-1)
2nd round Against RW Aggro: Again I play it defensive and stabilize on low life. Nought on the table and the game finishes quickly for me. For the whole game I thought it was Zoo and that he was color skrewed out of green (I stifled most of his fetches). Nice reads today. I side in all the hate and play it safe in fear of Pridemage and Krosan Grip. Finally he plays Duergar Hedgemage and I realize that he doesn't even have green...lolled for myself. I play around Price of Progress but forget that he also has Goblin Guide. Stupid all in attack and the second game end in draw after PoP. Third game starts again slowly but he eats away my life total with creatures and burn. I stabilize on 2 life and time is called. On the second extra turn he casts Sulfuric Vortex. Top finds me 2 Stifles to survive and take home the 1-0. Should have been easier, I quess I was already tired. (1-0-2)
3rd round against Aggro Loam: He opens both game with the nuts of 2x Mox Diamond, lands, loam and something... nice games. I still put up a fight with Balance and Nought. We had a conversation earlier about whose creatures are bigger...now I know. They are pretty much equal as Dreadnought traded with his 12/12 Crusher :) could have won this one if he had not drawn those god hands. (0-2)
4th round against Zoo: a real Zoo this time. Finally I win the dice and see a hand of 2 stifle, 2 Dreadnought, 2 Land and a Trickbind. I stifle his first turn fetch and next turn play stifle-nought. He has Pridemage but not enough time to cast an activate :) Next game would have been tough but he kind of brainfarts me the win. I have a blind Balance and a Nought in play, he plays EE with three mana, naming that he uses 1 green and 2 red. I can't really allow him to take it back after he realizes his mistake. Nought gets the job done 2 turns after. (2-0)
5th round against Hexmage Depths: Had not played against this deck before so I decided to be cautious again. That seemed to be a mistake as a quick Nought would have won me the game. I did not know that the deck runs exactly zero removal. He wins the long game but I have pretty good sideboar cards against him too so I'm confident. I resolve top-balance but can't seem to get Nought through his counterwall. I stabilize with mages and factories and lay down a Standstill. He has 2 confidants which he can't attack with cause I'm threatening lethal damage on the board. His confidant's kill him eventually. We have only 5 minutes left so we decide to end it in a draw. If there were more time, I could have won this match...didn't feel like it was hard or something. (1-1)
So 3-1-1 overal. If I had won the last match I would have participated on the tiebraker lottery for the first place. But 4th place is fine by me. It was really nice to play this after a long time. I had the feeling that this was coming back :) The only match I don't feel too comfortable playing against is the Reanimator but I managed to dodge it. I like the sideboard as it is but it doesn't have much hate agains ReAnimator.
4 Trinket Mage
3 Dreadnought
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
4 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
3 SDT
1 EE
4 Factory
4 Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
1 Tropical Island
SB:
3 Pyroblast
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Firespout
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Pithing Needle
1 EE
just a few minor preference changes to the stock list. I was really satisfied with all of the changes.
Reanimator is not that bad. Their manabase is very weak and CounterTop stops them. If you have a Dreadnought, counter Entomb, because Blazing Archon is their only creature that stops our 12/12. Postboard make sure you have a Blast for their Show and tell and you should be fine as long as you don't fall victim to Null Rod.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yan
If there's any dredge in your meta, I'd strongly suggest splitting the grave-hate into 2 Relic and 1 Tormod's Crypt. The possibility to go turn 3 Trinket Mage -> Crypt is really important in that matchup and the split also helps against possible Needles from Reanimator.Quote:
just a few minor preference changes to the stock list. I was really satisfied with all of the changes.
Agree with what Van Phanel says.
Re dredge: The times I'v played against dredge with dreadstill I have never encountered any problem, and most of the time I just win on the back of naught, EE and no gy-hate. Are my opponents bad or are there a general consensus about dredge to be a very good mu?
btw Van Phanel, and it I might be a bit off topic. I dont like your new slogan. =/
The problem with dredge is that it is extremely inconsistent. Likely your opponents just had bad draws. Just recently I lost a game1 against Dredge despite him mulliganing to four and me having Force of Will and Daze. The problem is that we can't always play an early Dreadnought and even if we can it's likely not enough unless we have something else going on. I find that generally one graveyardremoval is enough as long as we are able to kill their enablers (Tribe and PImp), but I haven't won a game without graveyard removal in tournament play so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by cjva
I know and I really hope for a chance to change it back but I don't see that happening without Frantic search in the format:cry:Quote:
btw Van Phanel, and it I might be a bit off topic. I dont like your new slogan. =/
maybe it just against me but I have seen it happen way too many times that the reanimator player casts Entomb with FoW AND Daze back up and exhumes or animates something next turn. There is just nothing you can do to that, be it Archon or Iona. They also have the possibility of going mystical tutor for the missing piece and still doing it on second turn... Counterbalance is nowhere near fast enough, if you are on the draw (maybe I have to start to practise throwing a dice...). Stifle on their fetch seems good though, if they happen to have it as their first (and probably only) land. I don't know if the reanimator decks are too well developed around where you are playing, but here they are a real bully. (voting for the banning of entomb again) Faerie Macabre would be great but I don't see any reason to break otherwise a very solid sideboard.
Agreed on the 1-off crypt. Just knew there were going to be aggro loam so relic seemed better, didn't saw any of them in the match though. And I would have been boarding 2 blood moons too, but I knew there was not going to be Lands or anything like that.
On dredge... don't know. I usually too win on the back of a nought and 1 or 2 counters... Graveyard hate just seems like an extra proof of winning the match but it is not THAT important imo...Ok, Dredge can go for turn 1-3 win if they get really lucky but that just happens. I quess the dredge players at your tourneys are as lucky as reanimator players at mine :D
Faerie Macabre wrecks Reanimator's plans. It's a bit more narrow than other graveyard hate, but if Reanimator is a big problem, consider using a couple of them in the board. I see you've considered them, but they really do work fantastically.
I know they do :D I just think there's no room in the board for them without weakening some other matchups. I could see them replacing other graveyard hate but I fear they are too narrow against other decks for Dreadstills purposes. Have to test it out. For sure Macabre is the best card against Reanimator. We even have EE for Reanimators Needles on Macabre...Quote:
Originally Posted by wcm8
In terms of Crypt/Relic I actually prefer Crypt more because of how much faster it is to be Trinket Maged. I feel in alot of matchups the extra speed really does come in handy.
Tested today against Reanimator with this sideboard:
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Pyroblast
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Firespout
1 EE
1 Crucible
I sided in ofcource the macabres, EE (for needle on macabre) and couple of blasts. Out came atleast all of the mages and something random. It was certainly a lot easier than without Macabres... It's still not an auto win or anything like that but atleast it becomes more or less an even fight.
So I thought about why I was even running Relics or Crypts? True, that they can be tutored with mage, but at the time you can play mage, against most of the graveyard decks it is already too late. Macabre isn't much worse in many of the other matchups either. Loam is just one card problem so Macabre handless it nicely. Ichorid has never been a real problem for me with this deck, so where do we really need mass graveyard removal? We also have 'a really large beatstick' in the deck so I'm not really that frightened about goyf or knight or what so ever. Only con I could really think of was the fact that Firespout was really nice with Relic against those graveyard based creatures... Please enlighten me more?
Relic deals with Goyf (also Knight of the Reliquary when coupled with Bolt or Firespout). That's why I personally prefer it to other graveyardremoval. As long as don't mind that Explosives is your only answer to a resolved big creature, there's nothing wrong with running Faerie Macabre.
While I applaud the vigorous discussion of Dreadstill, I fear that much of the present discussion misses the most pressing concern for modern builds of the deck -- fast aggro. Dreadstill is excellent as dispatching other blue decks, and can be made strong against combo decks. I believe that, if pressed, Dreadstill could be given a favorable matchup against ANT, Reanimator, and Merfolk. But those are not the issues.
The problem with Dreadstill is actually Zoo. Dreadstill can easily halt a single Ad Nauseam from resolving, and can prevent the opponent from assembling intricate contraptions. Steppe Lynx, on the other hand, is quite difficult to stop. If the opponent opens with that cat, and Dreadstill doesn't have a Force in its opener, things become rather bleak. Trinket Mage isn't large enough to stop anything in Zoo, short of being a chump blocker. Engineered Explosives is slow against a first-turn threat, and Zoo staggers its mana costs.
Worst of all, Zoo has evolved such that our old means of dealing with them are no longer nearly as effective. Dreadnought runs into the wrong side of a Pridemage or an STP/PTE. And they all board right into a handful of Krosan Grips. Tarnogoyf, which I started running years ago in Dreadstill to combat aggro, has lost some of his luster. Exalted, in particular, lets the opponent crash his Goyf right through yours, rather than letting you enjoy the extra time as in the past.
The old strategy in the matchup was to buy enough time until Dreadnought arrived. Given how easily he is dispatched, the no longer works. Instead, the matchup now seems to involve treading water while trying to mount an offense through a huge pile of disruption -- not a winning plan.
And as long as Zoo is a horrible match for Dreadstill, I have serious concerns about sleeving it up for a tournament.
True statement by Rich the harder MUs for this deck are the faster aggro decks like Zoo. Perish is definetally solid against Nacatl, Pridemage, Goyf etc. EE has been the best card for me at least at handling this MU...along with Spout. Let me know how you guys feel about this MU?
I feel comfortable playing against zoo with a standard Ur Dreadstill list and I believe this matchup is slightly favorable for Dreadstill both, pre and postboard. You just mustn't let them 2-1 you early on and play the control route postboard. My sideboard has 4 Lightning Bolts, 1 Engineered Explosives and 2 Firespout to bring in for this matchup so postboard it basically plays out like Ur Landstill against Zoo which is indeed favorable.
I come to this conclusion because I win about half of the games where I play against Zoo and both players are in the game. But there are another 10-15% of games where I manage to completely manascrew Zoo and thus I believe this matchup is indeed favorable after having played it on tournaments about 15 times. Still Zoo remains one of the harder matchup for this deck as well as Merfolk running Spellstutter Sprite, Ubr Tempo Faeries with Tombstalker, UWg Landstill and Suicide style decks.
I think that zoo is a favorable MU poastboard with Firespouts and Lightning Bolts coming from the board.
The first game though is in their favour. Anyways It's a playable match where the opening hand and mostly player skills are very important to win.
What do you think of running 2 Mystical Tutor in place of 2 Trickbind and using Not of this World as 1-off target?
this is why i have actually switched to a bant deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roodmistah
I still have a bant natoural order deck that uses a painter grindstone kill in it.But with zoo still running around dreadstill is not a good deck unfortunatly.I dont know about you guy's but i dont like being on the defensive the entire time.
Also if your going to run perish run 3 you WANT to see them...
Hi,
I am new to this deck and still learning how to play it properly. Even though I did a lot of research in this thread and via google, I was not able to find information on proper sideboarding.
So I think I’ll post boarding plans, as far as I’ve figured them out, and you guys correct me when necessary.
I’ll use this list from Simon Ritzka, second at Bazaar of Moxen
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
3 Counterbalance
4 Standstill
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Flooded Strand
4 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Firespout
2 Perish
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
Zoo:
-4 Standstill, -1 Trinket Mage, -1 Daze, -1 Dreadnought, -1 Trickbind
+ 3 Lightning Bolt, +2 Firespout, +2 Perish, +1 EE
Merfolk:
-4 Standstill, -4 Spellsnare (Daze?, Trickbind? I guess keep Daze on the Play)
+3 REB, +2 Firespout, +1 EE, +1 Crucible, +3Lightning Bolt
Canadian Thresh:
- 1 Dreadnought, -1 Trinket Mage, -1 EE, -1 Trickbind, -1 Standstill
+3 REB, +2 Perish
Bant Survival:
-3 Daze, -1 Dreadnought, -1 Standstill
+3 REB, +2 Perish (Lightning Bolt? Firespout? EE?)
Bant CB/NO
-3 Daze, -1 Dreadnought, -1 Standstill
+3 REB, +2 Perish (Lightning Bolt? Firespout? EE?)
Reanimator:
- 4 Standstill, -2 Trickbind, -1 Dreadnought, (Spellsnare?)
+1 Tormod’s Crypt, +2 Relic, +3 REB
Landstill/Walker
-4 Standstill
+3 REB, +1 Crucible
ANT without red
-4 Standstill, -1 EE, -1 Trinket Mage
+3 REB, +3 Lightning Bolt
ANT with red
-4 Standstill
+3 REB, +1 EE
If you have to correct me, please add an explanation.
dont side out standstill vs ant
side out a mixture of noughts and trickbinds.
@dorsch
I'll try to give some input based on my experience with the deck:
Against Zoo and Merfolk you should consider taking out FoW sometimes. It's too much card disadvantage and it's better to just trade cards 1-for-1 or 2-for-1 them with mass removal. You don't really need to force anything Zoo plays (except for Path, but it's CB's job to take care of that), and the only thing you want to force against Merfolk is Vial (Standstill gets Snare'd/REB'd). Having FoW on the play against Merfolk is probably acceptable, but I think it sucks on the draw where you can potentially get blown out by first turn Vial + Daze on your FoW.
I think you should board out Daze in most matchups when you are on the draw, it's too much of a tempo-loss. It should stay in vs combo.
Against Canadian Thresh and BantSur you should board in some relics.
I don't think you should board out Standstill against ANT. If you have Standstill in play against them they can't sculpt their hand with cantrips and they will be drawing random cards off the top (which is very bad for ANT) and they will be forced to discard while you will be able to abuse SDT and find infinite counterspells. If it's DDANT (plays 4 SDTs), then it's probably correct to board them out. EE doesn't do anything against ANT, unless the opponent is really stupid and passes priority at the wrong time with LED in play or something.
Against Landstill and Walker, I think Dreadstill operates better under Standstil and you shouldn't take it out. Those decks rarely play SDT, but you have 3, meaning you can dig for Wastelands and Factories while they draw random cards. The only scary thing they can do under Standstill is cycle Decree of Justice but it takes a long time to set that up, and a bunch of 1/1's don't block huge factories very well)
I went 6-2 (lost twice to Death&Taxes), and placed top 4 in a tournament for Tabernacle. There were 30 participants, mostly Merfolk/Loam/Zoo, I think.
I played 2 Not of this World in SB and they won me top8 game vs Dark Zoo. I also played 2 Explosives (+1 maindeck) in the SB and they worked very well and blew Vials and other stuff all day.
Can someone give some tips vs DnT?
DnT is kinda brutalizing matchup for dreadstill. Best strategy is to ride out Firespout and just play almost pure control route. Since they run Wastes/Ports it's normally hard to operate under a Standstill vs them. They don't run the most removal in the world, so if you get a chance to Dreadnought with one counter backup I'd take it.
After some matches I think that a small black splash is mandatory for Perish. Just to beat Pro Bant.
Also played against Zoo and Merfolk and had no problems with them.
Illusionary Mask seems better than Trickbind. Thoughts?
Dreadstill doesn't run enough creatures to make use of mask, not to mention it shuts down mage. Trickbind, however, has uses without nought.Quote:
Originally Posted by BKclassic
Eh IDK about that. Trickbind can interact with the opponent AND turn on your nought.Quote:
Originally Posted by BKclassic
I've posted a little bit earlier in this thread but for the benefit of everyone I will mention that grim lavamancer MD has had a little succes. Cut down to 3 noughts, no trickbind and a card of your choice then just up the volcanic count to 4. UW tempo, D&T, and surprisingly Bant becomes much easier. It also provides heavy support vs Merfolk and makes Standstill better vs. just about everyone.