We don't run many threats, so if you can keep removing all our dudes and then stabalize with some sort of CA engine (like Jace or Loam) then you probably have it. Perish is really good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mana Drain
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We don't run many threats, so if you can keep removing all our dudes and then stabalize with some sort of CA engine (like Jace or Loam) then you probably have it. Perish is really good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mana Drain
Mana Drain - Mess with the manabase before we get online. That's the best way to fight a Rock styled deck. Pick a color, usually white since there are a lot of white requirements now, and cut it off as best you can. It'll buy you a lot of time. The deck is designed to have a 50-50 vs the meta and try to improve after board. It's a skill>draw deck. Pm me though, I'd like to chat about Landstill, but not in the Rock forum.
Everyone Else- Is the survival deck really causing that much of an issue? They really can't keep up with a Leyline from you. There is enough removal and hand disruption that you usually run through them with it + Leyline. And if you don't have it they're already worrying about extirpate because it's become popular. Also, an Active Knight still beats 90% of those decks (Bog).
For Mom there really isn't anything outside of Deed or EE that you can do to beat her in play. I would suggest, if you can, Thoughtseizing her instead of the decks namesake. Can't use a survival without a creature and most of our lists have reverted back to old style with tons of hand disruption. I've seen better outcomes going after the mom than the survival.
Other options include, Getting a bigger creature that can block the one their swinging with and then using removal when they try to force through. Otherwise, you're in a blocking standstill which will benefit you more than them.
Welcome back, Damion.
@ Mana Drain
We will tell you nothing, now shoo!
But in all seriousness, as I was talking about in the Landstill thread, play Leyline of Sanctity. No discard will touch you until we blow it up. Deed is good against us, as we don't run many threats. Most Rock decks play 12 creatures or thereabouts, and I know as a fellow Landstill player we can deal with 12. Basically: Stop discard, play and protect Jace and win.
Perish is a card I don't want to see, Leyline of Sanctity is bad for me, Leyline of the Void is moderately annoying, 4x Jace and 4x Pernicious Deed are ugh, and Humility makes me cry at times. Moat is bad because we need to find something to blow it up.
-Matt
^ speaking of which I've been, in a casual sort of way, tinkering with putting in loam lion's over some discard MD, is there a reason that I don't see that done more?
-Increases threat count to ~15-16
-tempts people to blow removal early on a 2/3
-none green creature, immune to perish/hibernation/submerge
Clearly this takes the deck into a slightly more aggro direction with a worse game 1 versus combo but rock tries to side into game 2 and 3 anyways. Its not the greatest topdeck latter in the game but I play in a high agro meta and I've liked having more "beef".
I think if you feel the need to run more creatures, I'd say Qasali Pridemage or even Doran would be better choices I think. Loam is just too small for this deck. A 2/3 isn't impressive against most things in Legacy. Qasali gives other things Exalted, or swings for 3 by itself, and Doran is a 5/5 on turn 2/3.
-Matt
I agree - I think if you're looking at adding more creatures, Qasali Pridemage has to be first in line. No other creature comes to mind that can top it in terms of a balance of utility/offense.
I'd definitely go Pridemage over Doran. This is a utility deck. Even our best beater is a utility card (KotR). I've cut the Hierarchs out of my build again. It's not that I don't like them, they can be explosive, but they can often be meh at best. Still better late than Diamond, but not good enough. Finally added the Maze of Ith. It is a great tutor target, I'm just worried that I'm going to have games where it clogs up my hand when I don't want it. Still, everyone else loves it, so we'll stick with it for now.
I agree, Qasali is first in line if you're adding more, but if you want to add, say 6 creatures, I'd say 4 Qasali and 2 Doran. As in, add Qasali first, then Dorans.
-Matt
I think taking out the discard and adding more creatures is the wrong approach. Without the discard package, we are just a bad Zoo deck.
Edit: I was also looking around and its been a while since we've talked about Tidehollow Sculler. Possible alternative to Gerrard's Verdict... although Verdict is pretty nice.
What's up Matt, Happy to see you kept the thread alive.
I agree with Drza. Less discard for more creatures turns us into Aggro Rock which, according to what I've noticed, has done worse than standard Control Rock builds. Sculler is an option to be looked into though as it accomplishes both. I guess it turns on to a what is better argument between targeted singles (which may not stay gone) and multiple of choice (which may lead to a issue in the future).
I think right now that the meta is extremely graveyard based and giving them the choice could lead to worse outcomes that we are able to deal with. If you can get lucky and limit their hand early I'm all for hitting two more cards but early I'd rather have the ability to choose what's going away.
On a separate note(s): How many lands are you all ending the game with? Just wondering since I haven't really been playing Rock as much since Reanimator left the format.
And what's with this name of Dark Horizon's? Did they finally give BGW decks multiple names?!
Yeah, Dark Horizons basically tries to disrupt with early hand and land disruption and finishes with KotR or Goyf and uses Bob/Top and 2 for 1 discard for CA. Brad Nelson's list from Columbus was the first one to start getting attention.
I usually end with anywhere between 2 and 6 lands depending on how much Wasteland action there is (from eiter of us).
Dark Horizons I think is a big mistake in the name. I think they just said it was like New Horizons because it played KotR and black, so therefore, Dark Horizons. Most of the time it's referred to as Dark Horizons, BWG Rock, or Junk, but it's all the same basic deck.
I usually end the game with 4-6 lands or more. I play more basics and such, and I win in the later game (turn 8+)
-Matt
Quasali Pridemage is king. That is the next creature worth putting in. For a while I tried 2x Quasali in place of the 2x gerard's verdict because my meta is heavy enchantress with a few counterbalance decks floating around. It turns out pretty good when you can drop it on turn 1 with mox. That puts a real clock on any deck being able to attack for 3 on turn 2. Also the utility with Quasali makes it very much worth it's weight. I tried sculler and have always been disappointed in it. In fact I love when I have to play against it because it is just so easy to kill (even Quasali kills it).
@ Mana: Same as everyone else says, remove the 12 threats that most decks play and you should be able to grind it out in the end. Other than that, a well place Submerge is really good and very annoyinng. For this reason I tend to keep no forests in play when playing against a deck that runs submerge. I don't think that leyline of sanctity is really worth a sideboard slot.
Dark Horizon's is a pretty bad name. A while back I was looking for a new deck and was playing aggro loam at the time. This is when New Horizons had come out. I had talked to a friend about playing new horizons but using black instead of blue for discard effects and sinkhole. I joked to call the deck dark horizons. This name fit that idea of a deck, but it really does not fit this new more rock style control deck. I simply call it the rock now.
Well I for one like the name. :p
I usually end up with 4+ lands in play. I run 23 now that I've pulled Hierarch back out.
I don't like Sculler in here. While it will often strip the only removal out of their hand to protect itself, 2 damage just isn't enough of a clock on it's own. A Pridemage can sometimes go the distance but Sculler is going to need to swing 8-9 times to put the game away as opposed to 5-6 times for Pridemage. If we ran Swords (FI or LS) I would call it worthwhile but as is, it's just too unimpressive.
I wholeheartedly disagree about Leyline of Sanctity's inclusion; for me, it's an auto-include. Burn is cold against it, Combo has to get rid of it first, Words of War can't get you via. Enchantress, Wheel of Sun and Moon doesn't target you, no opponent's discard gets through, Zoo can't bolt your face, Tormod's Crypt targets a player, no opposing Diabolic Edict, no Siege Gang Commander usefulness against your face, no Jace the Mindsculptor screwing up your draws, etc. I'd say it's pretty decent.
When I come up with more, I'll let you know.
-Matt
I would agree that it's definitely a pain in the ass for most decks. The problem is, what's bad enough in your sideboard that you'll want to cut it for 4 Leylines?
Many lists run Diabolic Edict, I guess for the Emrakul matchup? I figure I've got tutorable Karakas. I put the Leylines in first and build the board around them. They're so good in so many matches that I couldn't have them excluded. You can bring it in against many matchups, and that's what I like about it.
-Matt
Test for the new primer. Tell me if there's anything more you want to add and such, or any mistakes or wrong stuff.
The Rock
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t...er/TheRock.jpg
1. Origins
2. Playstyle
3. Evolution
4. Card choices
5. Basic Strategy
6. Aggro vs. Control
7. Decklists
8. Sideboard choices
9. Matchup analysis
10. Records
11. Additional information
1. Origins
The Origins of the Rock deck are found in Citanul’s post, do copy paste that. :tongue:
2. Playstyle
The Rock refers to the control ability of the deck. It is what you fall back on, your “Rock.” When I first started playing in late 90’s early 2000’s, I remember first hearing of the “Rock” deck and wondered what it meant. I received various responses, but many replied with, “Answers to everything.” The Rock plays varying amounts of threats, coupled with both proactive and reactive spells to control the game to the point where we can win. This sounds like most decks, but it really isn’t. Rock is typically played in some combination of Black, White, and Green. Rock rarely plays vanilla creatures, opting instead for Evasion, comes into play effects, or creatures that are just plain devastating and must be answered when they hit the table. Rock also plays efficient trumps to other threats, commonly known as “answers.” Most of these include spell based answers to permanents, and discard for hand-based threats. Rock is very much a reactive deck, foiling your Plan A with its regular style of play, called “Plan A” by the Rock player. Should your Plan B happen to come online, Rock usually has some sort of answer for that too, also commonly called “Plan A” by the Rock player. What Rock lacks in specified answers it makes up for in cards that are generally good in most situations, rather than pinpoint reactions against pinpoint cards. Most choices cover an archetype of a strategy, such as Aggro or say, Control trumps. This is quite the opposite of many inclusions in many decks, in which X is an answer for Y, whereas in Rock, Z is an answer for M through Z.
Rock typically goes one of a few ways: either heavy control, disruption based aggro, or mid-range beats with a good amount of answers. Typically the middle-road is taken, as it takes on the very essence of Rock: being good against many things, but not overwhelmingly amazing against any particular archetype.
3. Evolution
Rock has changed as each passing block adds more card to the deck. As time passed from Urza’s block onward, changes didn’t occur rapidly to many lists. Many played the standby list of big fatties with discard and removal, all of which had very limited option until Invasion block hit. Invasion is probably the premiere influence in the evolution of modern Rock-based decks, and started turning Rock into the deck it’s known for post-2000. Invasion block focused on multicolour concoctions, and had been in production for years to showcase the similarities, strengths, and differences of the different colour schemes. This led to a very important evolution of the deck: the start, or the increase in the number of Rock decks running three colours. Pre-Apocalypse, Rock was primarily in Green-Black, with some people splashing for Swords to Plowshares. Apocalypse brought Pernicious Deed, Phyrexian Arena, Vindicate, Spiritmonger, and loads of other good stuff. The true Rock deck of the modern age was born.
Since then, sets have added cards here and there. Onslaught added Fetchlands for improved consistency, Fifth Dawn added Engineered Explosives and Eternal Witness (although EE was not used to its full potential until much later), Champions of Kamigawa added Top (again, not used until much later). Then came Ravnica, which added Loxodon Hierarch, and more importantly, Dark Confidant. Dark Confidant, and card draw in particular, gave the deck its ultimate strategy: use efficient answers, in combination with massive card advantage to overwhelm your opponent. Having more answers to fewer threats was paramount for the Rock deck. Later sets brought Tarmogoyf, Kitchen Finks, Maelstrom Pulse, Knight of the Reliquary and the use of utility lands, Thoughtseize, and other cards to name a few. The combination of powerful creatures at the cost of multiple colours/high cost, efficient removal and card advantage was finally hatched, creating Legacy Rock.
4. Card Choices
In Rock decks of modern day, many of the builds share similar cards. I’ll refer to the core cards used in a large percentage of Rock decks, followed by those used in some decks, but not all.
Creatures:
Tarmogoyf: The new staple creature of Legacy, Tarmogoyf provides a formidable beater early in the game and gets larger as Rock blows more crap up. An efficient creature is an auto-include in most aggro to midrange Rock decks.
Knight of the Reliquary: The new kid on the block, KotR is soon becoming a staple in Rock builds of all types, due to his ability to get bigger than most other creatures previously used in Rock, and for his land fetching capability. He prevents colour screw by tutoring for the lands you need and gets bigger by doing it. He can also find fetchlands, which can crack to find other lands, pumping himself up by 2. Some combat tricks used with him are: blocking, and before damage searching for lands to increase his P/T ratio; attacking then untapping after damage but before end of combat using Maze of Ith, which can also be tutored for by Knight; searching for specialty lands to hose the graveyard (Bojuka Bog), provide blockers (Nantucko Monastery), and provide recursion (Volrath’s Stronghold). All in all, Knight is proving his worth as a 5/5 to 10/10 and up creature for 3 mana.
Eternal Witness: Usually played in more controlling builds, Eternal Witness allows you to replay backbreaking spells over and over again. Most people running Aggro builds have dropped Witness in favour of faster answers. Coupled with Pernicious Deed blowing up for more than 3, Witness and Pernicious Deed can combo in loops, with Witness fetching Deed, playing Deed and blowing up for more than 3, and returning Witness with Volrath’s Stronghold.
Dark Confidant: Used in Rock builds with lower mana curves, Confidant provides serious card advantage that is used to crush your opponent. Although very fragile, he can also attack when you don’t have any other pressure on board. Coupled with Sensei’s Divining Top, Confidant can draw you cards while manipulating your library for minimal loss of life. Coupled with fetchlands, you rarely take huge damage from Confidant. He’s pretty much an auto-include in most builds today.
Stoneforge Mystic: Used in some Aggro builds, it allows you to fetch weapons tech to flesh out creature on creature battles. A very useful tool, but does have to be built around.
Loxodon Hierarch: Another creature used in slower builds, Hierach is a 4/4 beater than nets you life as a CiTP ability. Being able to regenerate your team can very, very crucial in certain times during certain games. Although deemed slow, he’s still an inclusion in many control builds to stay online late enough in the game to win.
Kitchen Finks: The quicker replacement for Loxodon is a 3/2 Persist that nets you 4 life total over its lifetime. It is used against other Aggro based strategies, as it provides you with two blockers and 4 life. It also combines very well with Deed, and gives you creatures after a Deed on 3 or more, and you get some life out of him too. Many rock builds play him in either the main or board, or both.
Tombstalker: Not as common as the other creatures listed, but a worthy inclusion in many builds needing a large beater with evasion. In some builds, he can come down very early to seal the game. In others, he beats for five when there’s nothing left to stop him after you’ve ground out your opponent. He’s not played very often due to the popularity of Dark confidant, and the possibility of blind revealing a Tombstalker and getting hit for 8 isn’t appealing to most players. When he is played, he’s played usually in control based builds, or those without Dark Confidant.
Qasali Pridemage: Used in tempo builds to combat the rising use of powerful artifacts and enchantments. It also gives all your singular attacks an extra boost, making your Goyf bigger than theirs. All in all, a very solid utility creatures, especially with recursion.
Doran, the Siege Tower: Although the mana cost isn’t the easiest to get on turn 3, Doran is a 5/5 beater for 3, which is great. He turns any walls you play (in Control builds) into 4/4 and 5/5’s, and lets your Birds attack for damage, and makes Goyf bigger. Many lists have dropped him for Knight of the Reliquary, as Doran’s 5/5 isn’t as good as a 10/10 down the road.
Nantucko Shade: Again, not another common choice now, but more relevant in the past. Nantucko swings for 5 on turn 3 if played on turn 2, and is a very efficient beater. As of late, he’s been outclassed by other creatures, and he does hog your mana base as you usually want to pump him up. Not a terrible choice in the slightest, but not as common as other creatures.
Shriekmaw: Again, not very common, but used in control builds usually coupled with recursion. It’s usually played for its Evoke cost and returned later in the game.
Lord of Extinction: Some play this in control builds. If this card had trample, it’d be epic. Unfortunately, it’s just a big dumb beater with no evasion. But, it’s very good after Deeding away the board, and then swinging in with impunity.
Spiritmonger: One of the main fatties used when Rock burst into its new era post-Apocalypse. Since then, cheaper creatures have made Spiritmonger largely irrelevant, but he still sees some play in older lists.
Spells:
Thoughtseize: Most Rock decks like to use hand disruption as card advantage, and Thoughtseize is the best of them all, allowing you to take any non-land card you want at a cost of two life. If a Rock deck is playing hand disruption, this is an auto-include.
Hymn to Tourach: Another piece of hand disruption that is too good not to play if you’re in hand disruption mode.
Gerrard’s Verdict: Usually played a supplement to Thoughtseize and Hymn, or played in place of Hymn if the deck has trouble getting double black on turn 2. It is somewhat worse because it allows your opponent to choose what they discard.
Duress: Usually played in conjunction with Thoughtseize to combat combo and control based strategies.
Inquisition of Kozilek: Played along with Thoughtseize, or as a replacement for Thoughtseize. As you have an upside for not losing life, you lose the ability to nab anything that costs 3 or more. Usually used as Thoughtseizes 5-6, or when on a budget.
Swords to Plowshares: One of the main reasons to splash white, removing any creature for an exchange of life for one white makes this an auto-include in every Rock deck I know. There’s no reason you can’t play 4.
Path to Exile: Usually played as Swords 5-8 in the main or board, Path exchanges creature removal for tempo advantage. It’s used in more agro builds where you don’t want to give your opponent life.
Vindicate: Permanent removal at its finest. For 1BW, kill any single permanent on the board. At 3 CMC, it usually dodges Counterbalance and can kill Jace, a land, any creature…anything. Most Rock decks play at least 2, if not 4.
Maelstrom Pulse: A Vindicate that doesn’t hit lands, but hits multiple non-land permanents. It’s very useful in all of Vindicate’s non-land destruction applications, with the added bonus of being able to kill one to however many things are on the board. Useful for killing tokens, planeswalkers, creatures, multiple enchantments and artifacts (Ghostly Prisons, Mox Diamonds). Also, it’s not usually the colour named against Rock by Iona (White), so it deals with Iona, too. Be careful of friendly fire, though. Usually used as Vindicate #5-6, or as a split.
Pernicious Deed: Blowing up the world X and under for X is good. Really good. Problem being is it kills your own stuff. It’s typically used in more control builds, as it kills your own stuff and is better with long game recursion engines. But, it clears away tokens, and kills everything, A very solid board control card used in many builds.
Engineered Explosives: Allows you to pinpoint Deed the board on the CMC that’s giving you trouble. It’s usually a turn faster than Deed, but doesn’t blow up everything on the board. Usually used in more Aggro builds. Remember you can dodge Counterbalance by paying more in one colour (ex. Pay 2 Green and 1 Black for Sunburst 2, but CMC 3 against Counterbalance/Spell Snare).
Phyrexian Arena: Card draw engine used in Rock builds with higher mana curves. Not as fast as Dark Confidant, but the life loss can be much less, and harder to remove. Use extensively before Dark Confidant, it’s now much less common due to sheer speed.
Sensei’s Divining Top: Over the past couple of years, Top has been used to abuse Dark Confidant, and to make the deck more consistent when in topdeck mode. It allows you to dig 3 per turn, or 4 with Confidant, allowing you to find the cards you need when you need them. Usually an auto-include in most builds for consistency purposes.
Elspeth, Knight Errant: Played in control builds or in Aggro builds as a 1-2 of, it allows you to create blockers and get attackers flying in the air against either Planeswalkers or the opposing player. It’s a bit slow, but doesn’t get hit by Deed and is hard to Explosives away. Once you go ultimate, you needn’t worry about opposing land destruction or Maelstrom Pulse friendly fire. Also helps against Moat, in case you needed any, but usually puts 10/10 KotR’s into flying mode.
Mana sources/accelerants:
Noble Hierarch: Doesn’t tap for black, but pumps your creatures, provides a blocker, and overall puts you ahead by one in mana. Basically, the best mana accelerant in most midrange builds.
Mox Diamond: Used in many tempo rock Builds, Mox Diamond pitches a land to pump Knight and gives you some mana. Some don’t like it due to mana instability (it’s easily killed, plus you have to pitch lands you can’t get back). In decks concerned about tempo, this isn’t an issue, and allows for many turn 2 plays on turn 1. Tied with Noble in terms of mana acceleration and overall usefulness.
Birds of Paradise: Used in control builds, usually alongside Doran. Produces all colours and blocks, but doesn’t do much else. Easily dies to Deed and EE’s like all mana acceleration.
Wall of Roots: Usually played with Doran, proves a good block against Aggro until you can get up and running.
Wall of Blossoms: Not really a mana producer, more of an accelerant. Played commonly with Doran, and help you fight Aggro and gives you some card advantage.
Sakura Tribe Elder: Another control Element, it allows you to block and sacrifice before damage, allowing you to search out basic lands and chump a dude for a turn.
Veteran Explorer: Gives both you and your opponent an advantage, but many Legacy decks play few or no basics. Used in Control Rock builds with many basics, and where you benefit from the acceleration more than they do. Not terribly common.
5. Basic Strategy
Rock has a few main strategies it uses to win and to interact (or not) with opponents.
Discard:
Discard provides card advantage by getting rid of stuff before it hits the table. It’s very useful for getting a peek at what your opponent it actually playing, and allows you to map out their plays for the next couple of turns. Most aggro builds run a suite of discard, as it allows you to get an early up on your opponent, and gives you game against combo. As the game progresses into the late game, discard can becomes less relevant. For that reason, many Control-Rock lists don’t run discard at all.
Removal/board control:
If and when something does hit the board, Rock packs a powerful removal suite in either pinpointed destruction or mass sweepers. This allows Rock to handle most things that the opponent can throw at us, from Enchantments to Planeswalkers to creatures. Rock is particularly good out either outclassing or straight up destroying opposing creatures. When the number of creatures becomes too great, this is where Rock can have some trouble.
Card Advantage:
Most Rock decks play some form of card advantage or manipulation to allow them to play more responses than you have threats. This is usually in the form of Dark Confidant, sweeper effects (virtual card advantage) or Phyrexian Arena. Clearing away multiple threats allows you to get the most out of your spells, and can put you ahead of your opponent very quickly. Most, if not all, Rock decks play some form of card advantage, either through drawing extra cards or blowing crap up.
Fatties:
Rock plays a suite of beefy creatures that usually roll over your opponent’s creatures, or are hard to remove, or have an ability attached. Your creatures outclass your opponents most of the time, making your opponent go on the defensive against a player who has big attackers and answers to any creatures used to counter your creatures.
6. Aggro vs. Control
There is a large divide in the Rock community about which is better: Aggro builds of the Rock or Control builds? The answer is neither; both decks have advantages to their strategies and disadvantages.
Aggro will usually run a large suite of discard with less removal and more creatures to put your opponent on the defensive early. This strategy is very good against most decks, which can’t compete with some removal and discard backed up by creatures early on. Most games played with Aggro Rock don’t run out the clock as much as Control matches do, but are worse against decks that do just that. Aggro-Rock does very well even into the mid to late game, but after that, it has no real recursion engines to keep fighting once the initial onslaught has been fended off.
Control usually scraps the Discard plan and some creatures for more removal. Discard is deader late in the game, so Control focuses on staying alive in the early game using removal, then plays board control pieces and large creatures to seal the deal. Control usually plays a recursion engine for its dead creatures to bring them back for further use later on. Control Rock has a tough time winning against super-aggro, as it plays little early game disruption. If the game can go past turn 4-6, then Rock does usually grind out a win. The problem with playing a deck that goes to time in a large tournament is the stress of reporting, de-sideboarding, and the possibility of tying a game from an opponent purposefully running out the clock. Be wary of the stress and play mistakes that come with going to time in an 8-hour tournament. Four rounds aren’t bad, doing eight is horrendous.
Mid-range is a mix of the two: usually playing more board control than Aggro, but more creatures and discard than Control. Most competitive Rock decks nowadays are midrange, and do well over the course of the entire game, but do suffer slightly in the early and very late games. It’s best to weight the advantages and disadvantages of playing any one of the major types in your particular metagame.
7. Decklists
8. Sideboard choices
Sideboard choices really depend on your build, as it’s really just a BGW removal + fatties deck. It’s highly customizable, as you can see from the decklists. I’ll go over the major archetypes, and what cards we can use to deal with broad strategies. I’ll cover some narrow use cards as well, but ideally cards in your sideboard cover multiple matchups so you have as much coverage of the metagame as possible.
Creature based Aggro: Tribal, Zoo, Burn, Dredge
Most of the above listed decks play large amounts of creatures that swing many at a time. Mass removal is always a good choice, but with aggro, you don’t always have the time. So, you can shut off their ground attacks, destroy all their creatures, or allow fewer creatures to attack at once. With burn, you need to stop them from burning you, or gain enough life to withstand their direct damage.
Ghostly Prison: Makes all their creatures cost more to attack you. A very solid card against decks with mana creatures and light manabases. After ripping apart their hand and popping some of their lands, Ghostly Prison becomes an effective counter to tokens of any kind, Elf swarms, Goblins, and Merfolk. Doesn’t apply for attacking Elspeth, so be wary.
Engineered Plague: Makes tribal decks cry. This isn’t good against Merfolk anymore, they play 16 Lords. Unless you have 4 in play at the same time, it isn’t doing any good here. But, it’s VERY good against Goblins, Elves, Thopter tokens, Goblin tokens, Horror or Illusion against Dredge, etc.
Moat: You could play this as a sideboard card if you were running Elspeth, since you could boost creatures over your Moat. Goblins can’t deal with it, Dredge can’t deal with it, and Merfolk barely deals with it. Good, but you have to build around it.
Sphere of Law: Makes red decks cry, as most of their Burn now only does 1 or no damage to you. Siege Gang Commander is useless, Lackey doesn’t do damage, etc. Very solid, but at 4 CMC, it’s hard to pull off.
Leyline of Sanctity: Shuts off Burn and Discard, period. A must-include nowadays.
Path to Exile: Targeted removal is good against decks with many lords. Allows you to also pinpoint your removal, allowing your creatures to block less intimidating targets, or gives you time to get creatures out.
Kitchen Finks: Blocks, persists, gives you life. Very good in creature on creature based matchups, especially Zoo.
Peacekeeper: Stops an opposing army, and your own, from attacking at the cost of tying up two mana. Allows you to stabilize and ready your troops before they can slaughter you with theirs. Although fragile, if you can keep it alive you’re usually set.
Dueling Grounds: Last but not least, the Grounds. Takes all decks that attack with multiple creatures and puts them at a standstill. Allows you to block with large fatties, and they can only block with one guy. Pretty rough beats against Dredge, Zoo, Goblins, Merfolk, Vengevine, Elves, Thopters, etc. I see this as a must-include nowadays. Side at least 2, if not 3-4.
Combo: ANT, TEPS, Dredge,etc.
To properly deal with combo based decks, you need to limit the spells they play in a turn to stop them from building a storm count, counter key spells, or use discard. Since we can’t counter anything, discard and spell-limitation is basically the only way to go.
Leyline of Sanctity: Prevents you from being targeted with the Combo player’s discard and their Storm Spells. Very useful as it buys you time to play your own discard and threats before they find answers. To me, this card is an absolute must. Gives you a turn 0 answer before they can combo off.
Extirpate: Allows you to break Ill-Gotten Gains loops if key pieces are in the graveyard already.
Engineered Explosives: Destroys tokens created from Empty the Warrens.
Ethersworn Cannonist: Limits the number of spells they can play, limiting their storm count. A very popular choice as of late.
Aven Mindcensor: Prevents them from using their tutors and fetchlands effectively. Another popular choice against Survival based decks. Fragile, but also has flash.
Pithing Needle: Prevents the use of Goblin Charbelcher, and other activated abilities many combo decks play.
Rule of Law: Same thing as Cannonist, limit their spells to slow their search of answers and to prevent them from building Storm.
Duress: Another key card in this matchup. Taking away their search abilities for answers allows you to keep other answers online, and stalls them from pulling off their combo. I suggest running at approximately 12 pieces of discard, along with another piece of hate (Leyline of Sanctity) to give yourself a better chance.
Runed Halo: Usually naming Tendrils is the way to go, or goblin Charbelcher. It’s an easily castable spell so long as you can actually get it down before they combo.
Chalice of the Void: Allows the countering of key bounce spells, mana acceleration, tutors, etc. Chalice on 2 shuts off their tutors (Infernal tutor and Burning Wish) and Cabal Ritual; 1 shuts off Brainstorm, Ponder, Chain of Vapour, Duress, Orim’s Chant, Silence, Xantid Swarm, Dark Ritual, etc. ; Chalice at 0 shuts off Lotus Petal, Lion’s Eye diamond and Chrome Mox. Remember though: Storm counts spells cast, not resolved. They can still run 0 drops through a Chalice at 0, having them all get countered but still building up Storm. If on the play, Chalice at 0 followed by Duress/Thoughtseize is good, but Chalice at 1 stops a lot of their spells. I prefer to Chalice at 1, as it stops their search and bounce, and really slows them down.
Gaddock Teeg: Stops them from playing Ad Nauseum and Tendrils of Agony and Empty the Warren, key components in getting the combo off. Mind you, he’s easily killed.
Leyline of the Void: Nullifies the possibility of Ill-Gotten Gains Loop while on the board, and decimates Dredge decks so long as it stays on board. More relevant in the grave-based matchups (Lands, Aggro Loam, Dredge, etc.)
Graveyard Based Strategies: Dredge, Lands, Life from the Loam, Vengevine, Reanimator, New Horizons
These strategies utilize the graveyard to their advantage, so get rid of it.
Leyline of the Void: Stops them from having a graveyard, and comes into play on turn 0. Try not to keep a crap hand containing only Leyline as its good card. All in all, a very solid card and if played, play 4 in the board to increase your chances of opening with one on turn 0. Susceptible to counterhate via Grip, Trygon Predator, Nature’s Claim, etc.
Extirpate: Targeted graveyard removal. Get rid of their Life from the Loam, Vengevine, Iona, Wasteland, or whatever you feel like. It’s uncounterable except for a Counterbalance reveal trigger, so be wary. I think this is the best removal right now due to its ability to get rid of Vengevine and not be countered. Always do so in response to the return trigger.
Planar Void: A turn 1 answer to graveyard strategies, but basically means your Tarmogoyfs amd KotRs are useless. I’m not a huge fan, but if you need more cheap answers to totally shut out their strategy in a grave-based meta, it’s VERY good.
Wheel of Sun and Moon: Doesn’t let stuff get put in their graveyard for them to use. Somewhat useful for Dredge and the like, and also good against opposing Knight of the Reliquary. Be careful though, it allows them to reuse everything, though. If they run a tutor-based deck, this might not be the best idea.
Tormod’s Crypt: Not as good as it used to be before Vengevine. Most of the time you’ll be forced to crack it for the bare minimum just to keep yourself alive. Again, another solid card against Dredge, but not so much against Veggies.
Relic of Progenitus: Better against slower graveyard strategies, but the same problems as Crypt, with a cantrip attached.
Morningtide: Removes all graveyards, including yours. A kick in the pants to you, but a possible choice if it’s all you have.
Control Strategies: The Rock, Landstill, Stax, Thopters, Enchantress
The trick here is to either out aggro the control deck, and put them in a bad position and make them make bad decisions (ie. Using sweepers on one creature) or do better than them at control. Early discard hurts them very much, as does targeted removal.
Maelstrom Pulse: If you’re not packing Pulse in the main and need more targeted removal, Pulse is right for you. Takes out multiple Thopters, Planeswalkers, Stax pieces, and Enchantress pieces when not under the shroud umbrella.
Pernicious Deed: The end-all-be-all against control. It’s devastating against Enchantress, Stax, Thopters and many control variants. It’s hard to Counterbalance against, and blows up everything. You might lose a few creatures, but Stax loses Crucibles, Smokestacks, Ghostly Prisons, Trinisphere, Chalices, etc. Thopters loses Thopter combo and Counterbalance lock, along with Ensnaring Bridges, Crucible, Back to Basics, etc. It’s a hard counter to Enchantress, but be wary of Replenish bringing it all back. Try to also remove their graveyard with Bog or Relic as well, or makes them discard Replenish.
Duress: Comes up again as it’s very good against a Control matchup. If you can mash up their hand before they can lay big threats or hard counters, you can have the game in your grasp by playing threats soon afterwards. You can take out a Trinisphere before it gets played, the shroud giving Enchantress enchantment, and other discard on the part of the Rock player.
Leyline of Sanctity: Protects you against many control decks counter cards, such as other discard, Wheel of Sun and Moon, and Words of War. It’s a hard threat for many decks to answer early on, so it buys you time, and possibly even permanents to sacrifice to Smokestack.
Leyline of the Void: Even though these are control matchups, many do so well because of playing out of the graveyard. Stax loses its edge with no land recursion, Enchantress can’t replenish, Thopters can’t Academy Ruins + EE lock you or bring back broken combo pieces/combo off at all, and most Rock decks like their graveyard for either recursion or pump.
Vampire Hexmage: If you had a meta with a large amount of Planeswalkers floating around, this is a good card. Kills Jace and Elspeth, the two main planeswalkers you’ll see in Legacy, and is a decent creature at a 2/1 First strike for BB.
Kitchen Finks: Creatures with recursion use up the control elements control decks have to play. Recurring creatures of any kind, be it Kitchen Finks, Nether Spirit, Bloodghast, etc. all have game against these types of decks unless they’re RFG’d by Swords. Multiple sacrifices to Smokestack makes Stax players (including myself) cry, and it gives you breathing space against their eventual threats.
Gaddock Teeg: Takes Control to town. They can’t play many Stax pieces, EE, relevant Planeswalker, Replenish, hard core Enchantments (Humility/Moat), and even Leyline not on Turn 0 (which does tend to happen). Especially good since most decks run EE as removal for your threats, and this really makes this disadvantageous to them.
Has anyone tried Putrid Leech in an aggro build? That card has been very successful in my peasant rock list so I wonder if there's a place for him in Legacy Rock.