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Thank you for posting this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
While I play and enjoy PSI, often feel that other builds are too often overlooked because their headline t1 win rate is ever so slightly lower. Both mono B and BR versions are very solid decks with their own strengths and weaknesses, and having seen BR SI played well, I can say that it is an absolute joy to watch for anyone who appreciates storm decks.
I win a lot of fizzled hands on T2/3 because I fizzled into a hand full of mana and I need business, so I'm just waiting for a business spell.
Question against unknown opponent: better to go for ToA for 16 on T1 or slithermuse D5+? I d6 and d7 turn 1 a lot g1 but when I know they're on blue I don't go for it - should I just spray n pray?
Further question, what are the advantages to playing SI over ANT?
To be clear, ANT is a 'better' deck than SI. But in answer to your question, the primary advantage of SI is speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodieyost
SI is fast. So fast that in many cases the hate that ANT has to take 3-5 turns playing around never has a chance to become relevant. This makes your sideboarding strategy fairly straightforward - use 15 cards to fight blue, and be faster than everyone else.
If you hop over to the Belcher thread, you'll see that Belcher can and does place/win tournaments semi-regularly. SI is actually a better (ie, faster) deck than Belcher, but because it is far, far more diffcult to play, pros who feel the meta is right for a super fast deck pick up Belcher instead, because Belcher won't punish them for 'dabbling' the way SI does.
Outside of speed, though, there really is no reason to play SI. The D4 combo engine means that sometimes you will just lose. This is the price of playing a high variance deck.
My point in asking the question, knowing ANT is extremely consistent and a turn 3-4 deck, is why play SI if you're just a less-consistent, less-resilient ANT deck when you tune everything down.
By playing the "land" plan, you open yourself up to Wasteland and Rishadan port plans of attack. You're inherently playing a slower deck, which means opponents have time to a) put their own gameplan into action, or b) fumble your game plan.
Play the deck you want to play. ANT is the most refined for tournament play. If your only goal is to win, then understand your meta.
I'd consider Spanish Inquisition in a high combo meta with fewer FoW.
I played doomsday for years as my storm deck of choice. I did that because I was continuously interested in playing with the deck, not because it was better than deck X/Y/Z.
Seconded. In a meta with a bunch of Dredge, Reanimator, Belcher, Elves, D&T, Monored Stompy, Imperial Painter and slow nonblue decks (Loam, Lands, Nic Fit) this deck is a great fit. My local meta is exactly like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
In my experience, a high FoW meta isn't that bad for SI. It's decks that put a lot of pressure plus Force of Will or Force + spot discard that are problematic. At least if you build with Fetches/basics over Land Grants. Land Grant makes Force a lot better against you since they can cut you off from gaining an advantage with your business density. With fetches or a bunch of basics, you can actually cast and flashback Therapy, which goes a long way towards parity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karhumies
Played a 4-round 16-man tonight.
R1 Young Frankenstein 1-2
G1 On the draw, Mull to 4, try to go off T1 -> FoW. Don't rebuild fast enough before he puts Iona into play.
G2 T1 win on the play
G3 he has t1 daze, T2 daze, t3 FoW. Resources are exhausted for the most part, durdle 5-6 turns before he reanimated Iona
R2 Esper Blade 1-2
G1 T1 on the play
G2 FoW checked all the way through to a Slithermuse for +6 and fizzled. Lose to a Pact trigger
G3 Flusterstorm x2, 1 FoW and a T2 stoneforge. /game
R3 4C Control 1-2
G1 T1 on the draw through 1 FoW
G2 T1 carpet of flowers, T2 D4 three times and get nothing. Get beat down by a baleful Strix
G3 Flusterstorm, 2x FoW - got him to 12 with dryad arbor before he landed JTMS
R4 R/G Lands 1-2
G1 T1 on the play
G2 he lands T1 sphere of resistance + chalice = 0. T2 2nd sphere. 8 turns later I eat a 20/20
G3 T2 go off, end into belcher, Glacial Chasm shoots me down, EOT 20/20 untap attack for game
Loved how the deck played R3 and 4, first two rounds I just had shitty hands and had to mull heavily into subpar hands. My SB also didn't show up until R3, buddy had the deckbox which kind of hurt a lot Lol
List?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodieyost
Four round swiss tournament this week. This was my list:
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Dark Petition
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Infernal Contract
4 Cruel Bargain
1 Slithermuse
1 Skullwinder
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Wild Cantor
2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Culling the Weak
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Swamp
1 Dryad Arbor
Sideboard
4 Swamp
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Past in Flames
2 Abrupt Decay
Round 1 - Bye
Round 2 - Merfolk
Game 1 (play): I don't know what he's playing, so I keep an Infernal Tutor/LED hand that eats FoW on turn 1. However, my opponent has a one land hand with a bunch of two land fish. Having played out two recurring mana sources from my opening hand, I'm able to rebuild and go off again before he is able to find the second land and get enough threats into play.
Game 2 (draw): We play draw-go for a while, with him countering D4s and me trying to discard his counters. After wearing him down, I'm able to Past In Flames for the win.
Round 3 - Burn
Game 1 (draw): I go off on my first turn after eating the expected turn 1 Lightning Bolt. IGG got me there.
Game 2 (draw): I know that turn 2 is going to see a Great Revel or Pyrostatic Pillar, so I side in Abrupt Decay. I'm able to go off on my first turn, though, and barely manage to drag myself across the finish line, having D4'd down to 1 life.
Round 4 - Combo Elves
Game 1 (play): I'm not sure what I'm facing, but I don't think it's blue, so I play Catacomb > Swamp > Deathrite. Next turn I use Deathrite to generate the mana needed to Cull Deathrite. With mana coming out of my ears, I IGG into a win.
Game 2 (draw): I have to mull to five cards to find an initial mana source, and keep a hand that plays out a D4 to refill. I don't draw any new business, though, so I'm in topdeck mode. Elves go off on turn 3, but a series of unlucky draws off Glimpse mean they wiff. They have enough Elves to simply turn sideways and win the game next turn, though. With some creative use of Summoner's Pact and Skullwinder, I'm able to generate enough storm win with the ToA that I had in hand.
Fun stuff. 4-0 finish, but with one of those being a bye, take it with a grain of salt.
I finally decided to pull the trigger on some Mox Opals so that I can play SAINT and mono black SI. I've been testing proxy versions, and one of the things I've noticed is just how many more keepable starting hands you have. With PSI, any Culling hand needs two mana sources to go on turn 1; using tallmen means that only one mana is required to start going off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinda
I'm playing the exact list posted 5-0 on mtggoldfish a page or two back. Haven't changed anything yet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Requiem
How frequently does SSG help out your opening hand? And do you ever find a fetch dead in hand when you've already played a land that turn and need to be hellbent for Infernal tutor?
Good questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodieyost
SSG isn't brilliant, but I prefer it to Manamorphose. Tracking my goldfishing, I found that lack of mana was the number 1 reason for fizzling mid combo, and SSG helps with that. Part of wanting to try SAINT is being able to play Mox Opal in some of those spots.
As to not getting Hellbent, it happens occasionally. And, yes, it is very painful when it does happen. It's very much a meta call, and I certainly don't hold it out as correct in all circumstances.
I gotcha. I like Land Grant in gold fish but I hated it against FoW decks when I finally played them. Testing Verdants this week, although I am not sure if SSG is what I want in that slot.
I'm glad I started with LG-PSI to learn the deck so far, but I think I'm going to play the tallmen or the robots. Most of my mulligans are because I have CtW with no target - unless I find a Dryad Arbor or ESG w/ Pact/1cmc dude
Anyone have an updated list with the tallmen/robots?
I think the first question an updated list has to answer is how fast it is trying to be. Simply swapping out Cabal Therapy for Mox Opal, and dropping down to two wincons for some extra tallmen, makes the deck feel nearly as fast as PSI. However, you are losing the maindeck protection, which is relevant when playing actual games rather than goldfishing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodieyost
Would you mind sharing your list?
My meta is 7-8 FoW decks (4 are tempo), 1 lands deck, 1 BR reanimator, and a smattering of randoms. There's only 1 problem I've faced against FoW decks and it's having 2+ counter spells, I've been considering heavier on the disruption SB plan because the 4 carpet 4 lotus bloom 3 autumns veil just hasn't been that great for me. In general that is, there were the odd games that did very awesome but I think I'd rather just slam therapy and name a few cards with some tallmen in play.
ALSO: the lands player brings in sphere of resistance like a MOFO, really shoots me down. Should I just be trying to race that card?
I've very much gone down the discard route vs blue. As for Sphere, racing is my current strategy for anything that won't see play until turn two. If he's dropping it turn 1 I'd probably board in a mix of discard and artifact bounce/destruction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodieyost
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Requiem
What's your list look like?