Printable View
I'm still on magic vacation, but if I were running a white-based build, I would be running 3 Rhinos. The card is really, really strong -- but I do like having a couple other options at the 4-5 spot than other people do, and those cmcs choke very easily. I would definitely not run fewer than 3, though. Some percent of the time it'll lose to Goyf, sure....but then the rest of your deck is literally built from the ground up to beat Goyf, so why exactly do you care?
Yep, pretty much this.
At times, I've also wanted a token generator just to beat Liliana. It's not like it's a problem, but tokens are a nice out to Jace as well, although Sigarda tends to beat both Jace and Liliana. Thoughts?
-Matt
Planeswalker that poop tokens are always good, also vs Miracles or just to drop chumpblockers while you keep beating with Siege Rhino. Playable options are in my oppinion:Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Garruk, Primal Hunter
Garruk Relentless
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Garruk, PH: Poops out 3/3 tokens until he ultimates in a bunch of 6/6 tokens. For NicFit his casting cost is doable. Not always the right card in cases (which counts for all i guess), but his tokens are big and juice.
Garruk Relentless: While "just" makes 2/2's tokens, these can still put some decend amount of pressure on the board. Also his other ability can solve problem NOW, which is a big plus. Possibly trading him for it kinda sux. His transformed self has 1/1 Deathouch which make excelent blockers. Also has a good search ability and he has an ok ultimate.
Sorin: Has the least tokens, but can make Siege Rhino grow. Also his ultimate looks very juice, but i think can be to narrow.
Edit: Elspeth, Knight-Errant is also a solid possibility. I think that the deck can get away with 2 white mana in its casting cost. Both its +1 ability has their uses, either on defense or offense. I mean Siege Rhino with +3 and flying until eot.
Speaking of planeswalkers that poop out tokens, I've wanted to try Elspeth, Knight-Errant in a Nic Fit list. Two +1 abilities; one makes a 1/1 dude and the other makes one of your dudes +3/+3 and flying. I've been itching to make flying rhinos for some reason. :P
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I also wonder if Garruk, Apex Predator isn't a reasonable choice for a walker in this deck. Not only does he +1 for a 3/3 beast but he also can +1 to snipe another walker or -3 to snipe another creature. The fourth ability seems like win-more, but its there if you ever reach it (how often do you ever ultimate a walker in comp play anyway?)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
7 mana is a lot. Even for NicFit. Lategame it is a bomb i must admit. But currently i am still running Vraska the Unseen in my Jund NicFit list. She fits perfectly in the control the board plan. Removing Batterskulls or Jaces (even Ugin or Emrakul). Besides that, she is a timebomb. If left unchecked her Ultimate wins the game. But i see more appeal in a combat walker creating tokens in a Junk list.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave78pdx
Edit: Elspeth looks good indeed. Even a 4/4 flying Veteran Explorer just for value.
I'm new to the deck (I was building Pox and Maverick at one point and I finally decided to go for Nic-Fit instead) and reading the last few posts, I'm wondering why this deck doesn't normally play Garruk Primal Hunter. 5 mana draw 4-5 seems pretty good for the deck and 3/3 beasts out classes a lot of legacy utility creatures.
I'm playing a Primal Hunter in my PFire Nic Fit list. He's great against Miracles and is also good in a lot of fair matchups, especially against midrange or Stoneblade decks, but he sadly can't be tutored (except with Diabolic Intent, which I'm considering atm) and can be quite clunky against combo or tempo decks. I think he's absolutely playable, but not a must.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galentyn
Relentless is amazing and I have become a huge fan, although be careful about flipping him vs GBx decks because getting him Decayed is the nut low. The other various Garruks are not good enough, in my opinion. Primal Hunter is close but strains the mana too much and his -: draw cards ability is rarely as useful as you want it to be. Apex Predator is a sick joke. If you want to run some huge endgame walker, run Karn or Ugin instead. I won't blame you for running either of those cards. I will blame you for Apex.
Elspeth has always been a staple of Nic Fit back to the original white lists. Sometimes she's been main, sometimes she's been side, but she's always been around / up for debate.
As for the Sorin family, Solemn Visitor is probably worth considering alongside Lord of Innistrad. Solemn Visitor goes well with Rhinos and huge things, his ultimate is achievable and a nightmare for a lot of legacy decks, and he DOES have a token gen when you need it, although it does hurt. But, the tokens have evasion...so...eh?
In what list you like running (fits best for) Relentless?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Also wondering about a solid list to support Ugin with his cmc 8...
In junk list I always want to have 1-2 Elspeth knight errant. As other said she makes us more aggro and +3/+3 fly makes beater with ANY creature in the deck.
Been playing the last few hours on Cockatrice with this list, going X-0 against Mono Black Pox, Meathooks (I know, it's cockatrice), BUG Delver:
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda
1 Thrun
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scooze
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Top
3 Deed
1 Pulse
4 Decay
3 Path
1 Diabolic Intent
4 GSZ
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
2 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Tower
1 Stronghold
1 Karakas
2 Slaughter Games
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
3 Carpet of Flowers
4 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction (might turn these into Extirpate, we'll see, seeing a bunch of 43 lands coming up)
2 Gaddock Teeg
The Taiga came from a Marsh Flats, and so far, hasn't hurt the manabase. The loss of Grip from the board remains to be seen, but Slaughter is useful in many of the same matchups; you only lose a bit of ground against OmniTell but Games is pretty good as well.
Switched a Deluge for a Charm so I'm a bit faster against Elves. Might change the 4th Decay back to a Charm, we shall see.
-Matt
Don't Thrun and Sigarda fill the same roll? I imagine you would be better off with a singleton that comes from a different angle. Specifically Gaddock Teeg or Titania. Thoughts?Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Being able to hardcast Thrun against Miracles isn't irrelevant, though. Hardcasting Sigarda is easily met with Force/Counterspell, and GSZ'ing for 5 is decently suspect against players who have played against Nic Fit before. GSZ can be an innocuous Siege Rhino, until it turns out to be Thrun, the Shotgun.
You're right, they do fill extremely similar roles, though. It's a bit of a carry over from the initial design of the deck (take the Jund list, rip out the red, build it back up) but I've liked it thus far. If you weren't a fan of having both, I'd suggest run Sigarda and, say, Elspeth or something else in the 4-drop slot.
-Matt
After being on PFit for a while, I'm running a very similar list. Siege Rhino is so fucking cool! It's funny you should mention 43 lands; a buddy of mine plays lands and I had the damnedest time beating him with PFire. Game 1 was basically an autoloss as I had no way to kill the token. PtE greatly tips the table in our favor, though I've noticed other decks in my meta stocking more basics. Regardless, I don't want to be STPing their dudes while trying to drain them out with Rhinos. I haven't played with Recurring Nightmare, is it basically a repeat Two Towers effect? Do you think it's good enough to be part of the core?Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
I'm also playing with 8 fetches which I feel is off the mark. Maybe if I ran more than 1 DRS it'd be worth it? I'm also playing 3 Liliana , wondering why you've eschewed it. I still have Primeval Titan in my deck to get the Towers out, but it's kinda lackluster. Is there a more powerful 6 drop in these colors? Or do I just cut it for a 4th Rhino? I may also try out Titania as a de facto Titan, it's easier to cast and allows me to get some damage in regardless of not having trample. In that regard, I may keep the 8 fetches.
edit: I also cut Thrun since we don't have Wolf Run anymore. I could see it being SB in a Miracles heavy meta, but isn't Thragtusk/Sigarda good enough?
The Nightmare is there to bring back Rhinos if they die in combat, or if you have to discard them. You play a Vet/other creature, then loop Rhino. Usually, the play is attack with active Rhino, Recurring Nightmare for pseudo vigilance plus Lightning Helix.Quote:
Originally Posted by thotcrime
The Titans are good, especially say Sun Titan, since recurring Deeds and other stuff is super boss, but they're win more. I think Titania is just fine. I've liked 4 Rhinos. Thragtusk doesn't do anything against Miracles. Sure you leave a token, but it still dies to STP. Thrun and Sigarda do super work against Maze of Ith and Miracles.
Wolf Run is one of the reasons to be in Jund, the others are P. Fires, Slaughter Games, and REB. With Slaughter Games now splashable enough, Wolf Run is the reason I'd ever want to go back (again, along with Fires). I also like having Path, since Path is generally a free removal spell. I've liked it much better than STP.
I don't think 8 fetches is off the mark, I'm just running 8 basics instead of the normal 6. I like to fetch basics early even without Vet, and generally, I activate Vet twice per game. I want to make sure I always have lands to fetch off Vet and fetchlands. So far, I've liked the mix of 3/3/2.
-Matt
With Nightmare present in your list, I'd consider running Wolf Run over Stronghold. Wolf Run plays very, very nicely with Thrun and Sigarda, and it's not horrible on something like a rhino. It might be too greedy, but I'd probably at least test it and see how punished you get.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
I also hover between 7-8 basics, usually, so we are agreed there.
Wolf Run is worth trying. I think the more you start to drift over to 4 colours, the more Deathrites you may want.
As for the comment before, I forgot to address the point of Liliana in Junk. I think in Junk Fit, you don't need Liliana and here's why.
1) You have nothing profitable to discard from her +1 unless you have Recurring Nightmare. In Jund, you can easily discard P. Fire to feed her +1.
2) There are times when you can't kill stuff like TNN, 20/20 token, etc. in the Jund build. In Junk, you roll over TNN with Rhino or PTE other stuff; there's currently few creatures you would need the sac ability for.PTE plays very nicely against Grizzeljizzle.
-Matt
Blech. Did horrible today. Tried Titania instead of Tasigur. Seemed better.
Beat Sneak/Show in 2. Helps when they mull 4 times in 2 games.
Lost to BUG delver in 3 close ones.
Lost to Omni-tell in 3.
Lost to Mono-green Post in 3.
Bye.
Lost to Miracles in 2.
Now this...this is a playable creature. My loins are exceptionally moist:
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...8287872490.png
I think literally the only way this could be better for us is if she was 3GB instead of 3BB for Zenith purposes. Even the wording on the trigger is as perfect as we could reasonably hope for.