[Primer] Eldrazi Stompy

@Darkgh0st: even with a deck that can power out a turn-2 new Thalia, I can't imagine it would be that good. I can't imagine that this deck loses b/c opponent's nonbasics and creatures ETB untapped. The issue with Matter Reshaper is that it's 3 mana for a 3/2; I imagine that a Metamorph is almost always going to be better at that same cost (and 2 life).

@Barook: Birthing Pod seems like adding more Eye of Ugin but losing non-land slots. The cmc chain is there, but the list would probably need between 6-8x slots for self 2-for-1'ing (Wastelands and Mox Diamond) so that it could run ~2-3 Riftstone Portal due to life concerns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cire

Completely fair - but using that tournaments white Eldrazi list as a base the following mana base apparently worked: 8 white sources, 4 of which were Caverns (and 1 of them was a black lotus :rolleyes:), for 3 Eldrazi Displacers and 9(!) non-Eldrazi cards (of which only 6 shared a creature type). Now obviously we don't have a black lotus - but it seems that even running around 8-10 white sources, including caverns, should be enough to support up to 12 white cards. Compare to your list where you run up to 18(!) white sources for 14 cards. Now obviously risk-aversion is a fair point, but I think that the vintage tournament shows that 18 sources may be past risk aversion and more paranoia. 2 extra cards shouldn't require 8-10 additional mana sources.

Taking your list and building off from it - I would go back to Smasher over SFM, as I think smasher is just a more powerful card and it further reduces the need for white mana. This also opens you up to running up to two metamorphs. Additionally, using the above theory of running less white sources - we can go back to running more Sol lands which only increases your chances of landing turn 2 TKS.

(/snip)

---

I think it at least is worth mentioning that the mana of Vintage Eldrazi is also really aggressive, and the TMD thread about it is chock full of people griping about how hard it is to cast everything. You very well may be right, but I don't think it's unreasonable or paranoid to want so many white sources!

Anyway, enough talk, I'll try to start testing this over the coming week or so and will report back with results when I have them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

I can't imagine that this deck loses b/c opponent's nonbasics and creatures ETB untapped.

---

Perhaps this is a good time to explain a little more why New Thalia is exciting, since my big post on the previous page took this for granted.

Almost every game you lose with Eldrazi is because you somehow fell behind on tempo. I can't emphasize this enough. Stompy decks are a pile of creatures and a few disruptive permanents and that's about it. If you fall behind on board, you are usually dead. You don't have anything like Terminus to bail you out of unfavorable board states. You don't have Deathrite Shaman or burn spells to provide reach in board stalls. Your cards don't get stronger with time like Young Pyromancer. All you have are dudes and spheres. You cannot grind well, and you lack the card selection to play the long game. If you've lost control of combat, you have lost the game.

Think about what Tangle Wire does for Vintage Workshops. Tangle Wire turns quick starts into easy victories, it lets you steal the initiative when you lose the die roll, and it gives you a turn or two to catch up on board if you've fallen behind. We can't run Tangle Wire because we don't have Workshop and we don't run good things to tap (e.g. 10+ sphere effects + low-value Moxen), so we just can't break the symmetry well enough. It is really bad if we have to tap a Sol Land to Tangle Wire - believe me, I really tried to make it work in this deck. But maybe New Thalia does a good impression!

Imagine you slam this on turn 1 or turn 2 on the play against a deck without basics - e.g. any Delver deck, certain Shardless builds. What would have been a turn 2 Tarmogoyf becomes a turn 3 Tarmogoyf because the second land comes into play tapped, and then the Goyf itself comes into play tapped, so it can't interact in combat until turn 4. Or against Death and Taxes, that Wasteland or Port they have on turn 2 might not be good enough anymore to stop TKS from dismantling their hand. And so on.

If you're not old enough to remember how hard it was to fight through a Kismet back in the day (either in the Stasis deck or otherwise), perhaps you might have played against Loxodon Gatekeeper in original Ravnica block draft or Imposing Sovereign in M14 draft; those cards were miserable to play against!

Man this topic is going in the wrong direction lelllllllllll

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iostream

I think it at least is worth mentioning that the mana of Vintage Eldrazi is also really aggressive, and the TMD thread about it is chock full of people griping about how hard it is to cast everything. You very well may be right, but I don't think it's unreasonable or paranoid to want so many white sources!

---

Ah, you're right - testing will show :), sorry I didn't mean to offend, 18 white sources just seemed like a lot.

Also - I don't think this is off topic at all. Really, we are talking about including only 7-11 cards that are largely replacing Matter Reshaper, Mimic and Endless One - all cards that this deck has tried cutting out before.

@Noloam_ you're most recent 5-0 league has been written up on Channel Fireball.

http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...zi-deck-guide/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://i.imgur.com/ZnNfHWS.png

This may have potential in eldrazi. Castable under blood moon, flier that is big enough to block serra avengers and delvers, provides mana for world breaker under bloodmoon. The only flip side is that while you will often get your opponent down to 10, your own life total may not reach 10 easily to flip. That and it dies to abrupt decay.

The rest of the spoiled cards so far don't seem like it'll fit legacy eldrazi, esp that god awful 7 mana 3/4 flier with the blue emerge cost.

Well as far as I'm informed, you should be able to pay the blue of the Emerge cost with Cavern. Also, sacrificing Matter Reshaper to it sounds fun!

Thought you guys might be interested: Romario Neto is playing Eldrazi in Season#1 of the Legacy Mediocre League.

You can find his decklist over at the website. This is his Week#3 match vs Tin Fins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nySTVdGy5ak

All other VODs of the League are on our YouTube.

I initially dismissed it, but if there's a build that can support enough white, it seems like a pretty interesting board card:

http://mythicspoiler.com/emn/cards/blessedalliance.jpg

Get around Chalice @1, can gain back life, kill an annoying attacker and even set-up blow-outs when you have to race.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barook

I initially dismissed it, but if there's a build that can support enough white, it seems like a pretty interesting board card:

http://mythicspoiler.com/emn/cards/blessedalliance.jpg

Get around Chalice @1, can gain back life, kill an annoying attacker and even set-up blow-outs when you have to race.

---

Yes, a card we should keep in mind in a heavy White Build. This deck can "Kicker" it easy enough. What i like is, that you can kill a lot of troublesome dudes (Gofy, TNN, Marit, Angler, Knights, Delver, Smasher etc.) and untap our 4/4er, 5/5er as blockers can also be a blow out.

---------------

I am currently tinker with Thalia 2.0 build and different Splashes etc.

Currently i brew with:

//Lands (25)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x City of Traitors
2x Karakas
4x Brushland
2x Savannah // Horizon Canopy (or 3rd Waste?)
2x Wasteland

//Creatures (22)
3x Stoneforge
3x Thalia 1.0
3x Thalia 2.0
3x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Eldrazi Displacer
2x Containment Priest // Flex Slot can also be Removal or other Stuff

//Other Spells (13)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond // maybe 3 are enough
2x Sylvan Library
1x Batterskull
1x Jitte
1x Crucible of Worlds

Compared to common Eldrazi Builds you are less explosives, but have (besides Mox) a lot of better Topdecks and card quality. What i like is, that you don't need much mana to play your game, so manadenial isn't a problem for this build. Thalia Duo improves Combo and Creature Matchups and with White and Green you can tinker with a lot of sideboard cards. But it is still only an idea in my mind with minimal playtesting.

-----------------

Hope we get 1-2 more Eldrazi(Spells) for all builds, because otherwise this deck maybe see no updates for the next couple of sets. I mean Wretched Gryff is the right direction (3/4 Flyer, dodges Moon, Moat, deals with Delver, fly over Gofy etc), sadly it is a common so it lacks power (or simply a lower mana cost). So maybe Emerge give us some new options and like Gryff it can be good for colorless too if its printed as a rare/mythic power creep. :tongue:

I'm hoping for a Naturalize Emerge Eldrazi. Maybe we're lucky and it isn't too expensive.

@Wretched Gryff: on an uncommon situation, the Gryff is a 2 to cast through Eye. Matter Reshaper becomes 1cc, then Gryff Emerge being 6, is reduced to 3 by saccing reshaper, then another 2 by Eye, costing only 1 blue.

@Eldrazi core: this was defined by CFB (i think, a popular source at that) which is:
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkgh0st

@Eldrazi core: this was defined by CFB (i think, a popular source at that) which is:
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic

---

Except said articles are mainly "paycheck articles" without soul or actual content. E.g. they grabbed noloam's list in the article above and made some generic "Captain Obvious" statements about it.

Now if somebody did an in-depth article with match-ups, sideboard guide, mulligan decisions, etc. - then that would be something worth talking about and refering to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barook

Except said articles are mainly "paycheck articles" without soul or actual content. E.g. they grabbed noloam's list in the article above and made some generic "Captain Obvious" statements about it.

Now if somebody did an in-depth article with match-ups, sideboard guide, mulligan decisions, etc. - then that would be something worth talking about and refering to.

---

Yup. I pretty much just skimmed through that article.

Noloam has had a lot of success with his list, and consistently too. Someone mentioned here that they played Noloam's list but didn't have good success. But no one will be able to pilot any list the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcoutlander

@Noloam_ you're most recent 5-0 league has been written up on Channel Fireball.

http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...zi-deck-guide/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

yes i know. there have been 3 channel fireball articles about my eldrazi stuff now

I've been play testing this list a little lately and I'm liking it. The Petals and the Thorns can sometimes be awkward but I don't really have a good solution to that unfortunately... I'd do anything for a "white" Spirit Guide /shrugs

Any feedback? I haven't taken it to a major tournament yet, so my playtesting has just been internal. So far though, it's been solid. Displacer is so much better than Reshaper and generally fairly easy to cast on turn 2 as well.

Creatures
4 x Eldrazi Mimic
1 x Endbringer
4 x Endless One
4 x Eldrazi Displacer
4 x Reality Smasher
4 x Thought-Knot Seer

Spells
4 x Chalice of the Void
3 x Lotus Petal
2 x Thorn of Amethyst
2 x Umezawa's Jitte
2 x Dismember
2 x Warping Wail

Lands
4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x Cavern of Souls
3 x City of Traitors
4 x Eldrazi Temple
3 x Eye of Ugin
2 x Mishra's Factory
2 x Karakas
2 x Corrupted Crossroads

Sideboard
1 x Endbringer
2 x Thorn of Amethyst
3 x All Is Dust
4 x Leyline of the Void
2 x World Breaker
2 x Ratchet Bomb
1 x Trinisphere

Latest Emerge card:

Elder Deep-Fiend 8
Creature - Eldrazi Octopus
Flash
Emerge 5UU (you may cast this spell by sacrificing a creature and paying the emerge cost, reduced by that creature's converted mana cost.)
When you cast Elder Deep-Fiend, tap up to four target permanents
5/6

Thoughts: Let's say you go Turn 1 Sol land, Accel into Matter Reshaper . . . the double blue of the Emerge costs prevents you from going turn 2 sac reshaper into EDF. So initial thoughts are that it's pretty bad. I guess if you go turn 1 Sol land --> Chalice whatever, turn 2 Caverns --> Matter Reshaper and then turn 3 --> land that produces U, sac reshaper plus accel --> you can play this at the beginning of opponents step. Then it basically gives you a free turn since you shut off all their lands. In that scenario, it is pretty good! However, that scenario requires that you sac a 3 mana eldrazi or higher . . .


Edit:

okay jsut for fun thinking of how to include this card. Eldrazi Base plus To run the double UU of the Octopus cost we need around 14 sources of Blue mana . . . we have 4 Caverns, we can run 4 Lotus - so that means 6 lands that produce blue. Then additionally we need eldrazi to sac we need at least 8 eldrazi of 3 CMC . . . so matter reshaper and Displacer?

//23 lands
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Corrupted Crossroads
3x City of Traitors
2x Eye of Ugin
2x Adarkar Wastes

//23 creatures
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4X Eldrazi Displacer
4X Matter Reshaper
4X Eldrazi Mimic
3X Elder Deep-Fiend

//14 Spells
4x Chalice of the Void
4X Lotus Petal
2 x Umezawa's Jitte
2 x Dismember
2 x Warping Wail

Like every change to this deck that isn't colorless what you're sacrificing is consistency and a landbase with powerful effects. This version gives you access to what could effectively be a time skip on a 5/6 body, for the price of a reshaper/mimic/ displacer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cire

Latest Emerge card:

Elder Deep-Fiend 8
Creature - Eldrazi Octopus
Flash
Emerge 5UU (you may cast this spell by sacrificing a creature and paying the emerge cost, reduced by that creature's converted mana cost.)
When you cast Elder Deep-Fiend, tap up to four target permanents
5/6

Thoughts: Let's say you go Turn 1 Sol land, Accel into Matter Reshaper . . . the double blue of the Emerge costs prevents you from going turn 2 sac reshaper into EDF. So initial thoughts are that it's pretty bad. I guess if you go turn 1 Sol land --> Chalice whatever, turn 2 Caverns --> Matter Reshaper and then turn 3 --> land that produces U, sac reshaper plus accel --> you can play this at the beginning of opponents step. Then it basically gives you a free turn since you shut off all their lands. In that scenario, it is pretty good! However, that scenario requires that you sac a 3 mana eldrazi or higher . . .

---

Getting to UU reliably seems to be a dealbreaker on this card - but it's still playable as a lategame mirror breaker at 8. It gets through Blood Moon and having a 5/6 body is also a plus. I would consider playing as a 1-of to tutor with Eye.

Edit: It also taps down Merit Lage and Emrakul, buying us a turn. Expensive way to do it, but not irrelevant.

EDF with Grim Monolith and Oblivion Sower?

Best way for Emerge + Flash is to profit from removal or bad blocks/attacks but UU is the deal breaker here. Since Eldrazi are playable as a Legacy deck i brewed with different builds including 1-2 color splashes. I think double UU is to hard in most cases, unless you are flooded which means you reached "Endgame" where you can also activate Eye of Ugin or cast All is Dust (and afterall it is not a Maindeck card). In this case you can also hardcast Elder Deep-Fiend but i feel, that World Breaker is a better bomb if we talk about Eldrazi creatures with cc7+ that need a Splash.

If you go UW Eldrazi, i think it would be stronger to talk at least about Drowner of Hope (cc6, 7 Power on the field, "haste"ability and works well with Displacer) before we discuss X-Mas wonderland with a perfect curve like T2 Matter Reshaper into T3 Elder Deep-Fiend (including the right Lands for UU) without any disruption etc. The more common alternative is T2 Reshaper into T3 Smasher which should be powerfull enough and is easier to achieve.

I still hope we get a powerfull Emerge card with only one color.