[Deck] Vial Goblins

Chainwhirler is really interesting for sure, though that mana cost....

If it has a place, it's almost certainly in mono R winstigator builds, where the only colorless sources are wasteland and maybe a pendelhaven.

Squee is really cute, having a literally infinite creature is really nice. I imagine a deck like Czech Pile would really struggle against him. Quite a good hymn insulator. Wish he wasn't RR though. Food chain is really funny idea though, doubt it'd be any good though.

Honestly the biggest card for us HAS to be Stabilization Orb. This card is the real deal.

2

Artifact

If a land would produce 2 or more mana, it produces 1 colorless instead.

Each spell a player casts cost 1 more to cast for each other spell they cast this turn.

So....annihilates Storm and Elves, since storming/glimpse chains are now impossible to do, and Cradle is now a Wastes. Strong against S&S, keeps them from cantripping into the show/sneak without a ton of mana, and also weakens ancient tomb/city. Completely blanks both Food Chain and Aluren's combo. Better than blood moon against any Post/Metalworker deck. The only combo decks this doesn't mess with significantly are Reanimator (slows it, but probably only 1 turn max) and Turbo Depths.

This kinda solves the "what is the best splash" debate in my mind. This card is almost certainly way better than Thalia, I don't see a reason to splash white anymore. Monored might have the best shot, though this is kinda nice with the black discard spells, since you can start picking out the cards stuck in their hand from the accumulating tax. Will be very excited to test! Once this comes out, I'm probably gonna jam this for mono red:


4 Stabilization Orb
3 Surgical
2 Blood Moon
2 Relic
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyrokinesis

And this for RB:
4 Stabilization Orb
3 Therapy
1 Thoughtseize
2 Relic
2 Surgical
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Silver Bullet Gob

I think this card really does make our Combo matchups substantially better, it's a big deal.

EDIT: Apparently it's called Stabilization Orb, my bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1GoblinLackey

Chainwhirler is really interesting for sure, though that mana cost....

If it has a place, it's almost certainly in mono R winstigator builds, where the only colorless sources are wasteland and maybe a pendelhaven.

Squee is really cute, having a literally infinite creature is really nice. I imagine a deck like Czech Pile would really struggle against him. Quite a good hymn insulator. Wish he wasn't RR though. Food chain is really funny idea though, doubt it'd be any good though.

Honestly the biggest card for us HAS to be Damping Sphere. This card is the real deal.

2

Artifact

If a land would produce 2 or more mana, it produces 1 colorless instead.

Each spell a player casts cost 1 more to cast for each other spell they cast this turn.

So....annihilates Storm and Elves, since storming/glimpse chains are now impossible to do, and Cradle is now a Wastes. Strong against S&S, keeps them from cantripping into the show/sneak without a ton of mana, and also weakens ancient tomb/city. Completely blanks both Food Chain and Aluren's combo. Better than blood moon against any Post/Metalworker deck. The only combo decks this doesn't mess with significantly are Reanimator (slows it, but probably only 1 turn max) and Turbo Depths.

This kinda solves the "what is the best splash" debate in my mind. This card is almost certainly way better than Thalia, I don't see a reason to splash white anymore. Monored might have the best shot, though this is kinda nice with the black discard spells, since you can start picking out the cards stuck in their hand from the accumulating tax. Will be very excited to test! Once this comes out, I'm probably gonna jam this for mono red:


4 Damping Sphere
3 Surgical
2 Blood Moon
2 Relic
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyrokinesis

And this for RB:
4 Damping Sphere
3 Therapy
1 Thoughtseize
2 Relic
2 Surgical
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Silver Bullet Gob

I think this card really does make our Combo matchups substantially better, it's a big deal.

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Couldn't monored just run Thorn of Amethyst for the Thalia effect? Probably safer from removal, too.

But I'm loving damping sphere, hell I may even think it's maindeckable?! Not sure as it looks like the only thing it's not amazing against is Delver and to a lesser extent other vial decks, namely DnT. Lands I guess is in there too, really any deck that isn't trying to do super unfair stuff with mana bases and combo elements. Eldrazi sol lands? Nah son, no more turn two thought knots. Elves will prob be packing more reclamation sages.

Welcome back to our home Dominaria fellow goblins

New Squee looks very interesting

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bichon_Blitz

Couldn't monored just run Thorn of Amethyst for the Thalia effect? Probably safer from removal, too.

But I'm loving damping sphere, hell I may even think it's maindeckable?! Not sure as it looks like the only thing it's not amazing against is Delver and to a lesser extent other vial decks, namely DnT. Lands I guess is in there too, really any deck that isn't trying to do super unfair stuff with mana bases and combo elements. Eldrazi sol lands? Nah son, no more turn two thought knots. Elves will prob be packing more reclamation sages.

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it is actually pretty good vs delver decks. if they want to brainstorm into something, it will cost extra for the 2nd spell. if they want to probe into something, the 2nd spell costs more. if they want to chain cantrips, this is taxed as well.

Thinking about new squee + Chrome mox hyper value!!

EDIT:

Quote:

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"If all cards exiled by an imprint ability somehow leave the exile zone, or if a card isn't exiled by an optional imprint ability, or if the ability failed to exile a card because it was countered, then it is possible for an imprint ability to have no exiled card to refer to. In this case, the linked ability associated with the imprint ability has no card values to refer to and will only do as much as possible. It may do nothing at all."

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sadly it couldn't work :frown:
anyway could be imprinted early game and then casted later when we establish a good landbase. the grind value of the card is very promising without mox too anyway

Quote:

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Originally Posted by menph

Thinking about new squee + Chrome mox hyper value!!

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Or new Squee + Pyrokinesis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hanni

Or new Squee + Pyrokinesis.

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Awesome :-)

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sexy!!

Damping Sphere is also strong against the Jim Davis Durdle Miracles. Crushes their lines of Ponder into Portent into Brainstorm into Snapcaster, Ponder, go, during your upkeep, Terminus, Brainstorm in response, Clique.

So we found the videos for the tournament run that I went undefeated with the Winstigator list.

Here are the links of my feature matches.

R2 vs Elves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R6QMMdarak

R4 vs UR Delver:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sIgqHMHP48

Semi-Finals vs Grixis Delver plus some embarrassing interview about the deck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TlVcO5QjSg

Finals vs Miracles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OkUpdbMlp8

Question:

any reason for the 3 ports, 3 cavern of souls?

Better chances of casting a tarfire? (I'm lacking the 3rd port for the moment, so I guess replacing it by the 4th cavern won't hurt) but why not play 4 caverns, other than casting tarfire, bloodmoon and sudden demise, I don't really see a reason. And I guess for bloodmoon and sudden demise, 99,9% of the time you have that red source. So mainly for tarfire?

Thanks for the videos, Quackers. I'm always looking for more Goblins-related content to get better with the deck, and congrats on the wins too!

I came in 3rd last night at FNM, finishing 3-1. It was my first event with the deck, and my first Legacy event not playing Belcher, so I probably made several misplays that I didn't even notice. I'm also terrible at taking notes, so I unfortunately don't have much detail on the matches. The decklist was the following:

Main Deck

Lands (23)

7 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Pendelhaven

Creatures (29)

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Goblin Warchief
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Piledriver
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Stingscourger
1 Siege-Gang Commander

Spells (8)

4 Aether Vial
4 Tarfire

Sideboard
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtseize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tin Street Hooligan

Round 1 vs. Infect (2-1)

This match was against a friend of mine--we've been practicing Legacy once a week for a few months, me on Goblins and TES and him on Death and Taxes and Infect. This was his last night on Infect as he traded in most of the deck towards DnT, so I'd expect him to be on DnT for the next FNM. Anyway, game 1 went almost perfectly, with me having enough removal for his threats and slowly beating him down to zero. I never took any Infect damage this game.

Sideboard: +3 Pyrokinesis, +2 Surgical Extraction (this was an experiment over the discard spells), -1 Tin Street Hooligan, -1 Chieftain, -1 Stingscourger, -2 Ringleader

Game 2 was very long and grindy, with me having a Surgical Extraction to take out his copies of Inkmoth Nexus (I had intended to either take an Infect threat or his Tropical Islands). Unfortunately I didn't see as much removal as game 1, even with Pyrokinesis boarded in, and he eventually killed me with an Invigorated Blighted Agent off of a Jace. Good play. Game 3 I managed an early Lackey into a Siege-Gang Commander with multiple Tarfires and a Gempalm Incinerator, so he really didn't have a chance after my nuts draw.

Round 2 vs. BUG Delver (2-0)

I was a little tilted at the beginning of this match as my opponent had a fully-foiled out deck with a couple of Beta Underground Sea. He also made decisions and plays very quickly, which was intimidating at first since I'm still very much learning how to play Legacy (I've followed for a while but don't get to play often). I pegged him on Grixis at first, until I saw the turn 2 Tarmogoyf. Chump blocks held him off though as I slowly grinded him out. I was surprised at how well I was able to recover from Hymn to Tourach.

Sideboard: +2 Relic of Progenitus, +2 Surgical Extraction (this was a mistake and I wouldn't have done this again), -1 TSH, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Chieftain, -1 Piledriver

I really didn't know how to sideboard against this deck but it didn't really wind up mattering as it seems our maindeck is really strong in this matchup. He got me down to 10 with DRS beats and activations, and I did manage to get off one Relic. I got two Ringleaders off of casting one, though, so I just buried him in card advantage and Goblins.

Round 3 vs. UB Death's Shadow (0-2)

Another deck that I pegged as Grixis Delver as he lead off Sea->Delver, and eventually a Gurmag Angler. I realized what was going on when he fetched a Watery Grave, however. He played two Death's Shadows as 2/2s but I didn't have removal and his two Hymn to Tourach hurt on my mulligan to 6. He used Dismember on my blocker and I died in spectacular fashion.

Sideboard: +2 Relic of Progenitus (for Gurmag Angler), +3 Cabal Therapy, +1 Thoughtseize, -1 TSH, -1 Stingscourger (this was a mistake), -1 Chieftain, -1 Sharpshooter, -1 Prospector, -1 ??? (I forget)

I had no clue what to sideboard against this deck as it seemed most of my sideboard wasn't that great against him, but I figured the discard spells would be good against a combo-y deck. I had to mull to 6 again (both games 4 land, 1 Vial, 1 Goblin but would 5 have been better?). Another Hymn to Tourach, but he couldn't find a finisher. We both drew tons of lands but he found Death's Shadow before I could find enough removal. I held back a Tarfire as his Death's Shadow was way too big but he was at 3 life. The next card would have been Tarfire #2 and the win. So it goes.

Round 4 vs. Czech Pile (2-1)

I'd never actually seen this deck play, just read about it, but man it's insane. The value off of Strix, BBE, Kolagahn's Command, and Snapcaster is nuts, and Leovold is so powerful. My inexperience cost me game one as he built a huge board and eventually overwhelmed me with card advantage.

Sideboard: +2 Relic of Progenitus, -1 TSH, -1 Stingscourger (should I have brought in Pyrokinesis?)

Game 2 was similar to game 1 as it was super grindy and we went back and forth a lot, but I was able to finish the game with triple Tarfire. Game 2 again was really really grindy and went on for a while with me casting multiple Ringleaders, but an 11/2 Goblin Piledriver against a bunch of Strixes and Leovold was a great way to end the night.

Closing thoughts: I know people here talk about grinding out games, but I never really understood how well this deck plays the long game until I faced BUG Delver and Czech Pile. Chump block with Matrons, who cares? It's all about dealing with their threats and getting to your card advantage engines like Ringleader, which is an insane card. I changed from White splash to Black splash shortly before the event because I was expecting to face Storm a lot (Thorn instead of Thalia plus discard), but from my experiences I never actually got to use the splash regardless, all of my games were mono-red. I definitely need more experience sideboarding, and I'd probably like to tweak it a little for next time to try more things out. I'm waiting a couple weeks to get Rishadan Ports, but I'm not really sure how many to fit in and how that will change the deck, as it seemed really consistent and strong as-is. I'd still like to try them out, though. It was really fun to have my last three opponents constantly having to read my cards because of their unfamiliarity with the deck, and by the end of Round 2 everyone knew what I was on based on the kudos I was getting for bringing Goblins, so that was a nice feeling too. I had a blast, some of the most fun I've had playing Magic in a while, and I can't wait to play the deck again. I'm kinda left in an awkward position now, though, because I have TES built with all those duals and LEDs and I just want to play this deck instead!

EDIT: Also won $18 store credit, which was pretty cool. Other than a 3-1 with Ad Nauseam in Modern a couple of years ago, this was my best finish at an FNM.

Quackers,

I just watched your G1 and G2. You played really well and made no mistake, chose every turn the right lines and keep cool even at 1 life.

This is the best plays I saw on video since a long time. Starters with the deck should quite learn a lot.

Tight plays man, well done ;-)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xod

Question:

any reason for the 3 ports, 3 cavern of souls?

Better chances of casting a tarfire? (I'm lacking the 3rd port for the moment, so I guess replacing it by the 4th cavern won't hurt) but why not play 4 caverns, other than casting tarfire, bloodmoon and sudden demise, I don't really see a reason. And I guess for bloodmoon and sudden demise, 99,9% of the time you have that red source. So mainly for tarfire?

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It really comes down to being less susceptible to wasteland and to make sure you have red for Tarfires and gempalm cycles. Also there is more double red in this version than the classic build. It really came down to what you cut put of 22 lands for 2 chrome mox. Port gets cut to make t1 double red more likely and it functions on a similar axis as port. Cavern is next because of how people sideboard out counter magic against us so there isn't as high of a need as before. Also winstigator has more ways to put things into play in an uncounterable way than classic. I'm sure you'll get fine results with 4 cavern 2 ports, but I think 3 ports 3 cavern is better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fourbirr

Quackers,

I just watched your G1 and G2. You played really well and made no mistake, chose every turn the right lines and keep cool even at 1 life.

This is the best plays I saw on video since a long time. Starters with the deck should quite learn a lot.

Tight plays man, well done ;-)

Envoyé de mon FP2 en utilisant Tapatalk

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Thanks a lot! It wasn't at all perfect but I am very happy with the way I played that day. Rewatching it both the elves match and grixis delver match looked pretty grim at the start.

Hi Anubis,

Congrats for representing Goblins and for the good results at your 1st FNM. Here are some thoughts and advices about sideboarding.

Against Infect:
Surgical is unnecessary and you probably noted that. They have several 10-11 pump spells, so taking 3 are not enough and mostly too late once they have resolved. Instead, you could try to discard his creatures. They only have 12. We can kill most with our 7+ removals or they must block our Lackey/Instigator. That leaves only a 4-5 creatures to pump. Take them from their hand.


With your list, maybe you could try this:


INFECT
Tips: Port or Waste Inkmoth Nexus IN RESPONSE to the activation.
Tips: Use removal at my main phase, so they can’t pump their creature at their turn while attacking.
Tips: Don’t Side out MWM to enable Gempalm.
+3 Pyrokinesis, +3 Cabal Therapy (Blighted Agent, Glistener Elf, Noble Hierarch, in this order), (maybe +1 Toughtseize)
-3 Ringleader (we don't have time to vial him, too slow), -1 TSH, -1 Stingscourger, -1 tarfire (that's a compromise to bring enough discard and Pyrokinesis)


Against BUG Delver, just bring Relics in. That's more than enough. Please, never side out Stingscourger, he bounces Goyf, and let Piledriver hit Tarmogoyf face. It's still a good trade. That would give this:

BUG Delver
Tips:
Don’t side out Lackey, because it trades against Dark Confidant
Don’t crack Relic of Progenitus too soon and keep it to lower Tarmogoyf.
(On the play): -1 Sharpshooter, -1 Prospector; +2 Relic of Progenitus
(On the draw): -1 Goblin Lackey, -1 Sharpshooter; +2 Relic of Progenitus


Against Death Shadow, overboarding is not good. They are slow at the beginning, but once they go below 10 life, it's really hard for us to catch the train back. We must build a board soon, to be able to block late game, if opponent is not dead, yet. Stingscourger and Gempalm are MVP here.

SB plan could be like this:

DEATH SHADOW
+2 Relic, +3 Cabal Therapy; -1 Sharpshooter, -1 Prospector, -1 TSH, -1 Chieftain, -1 Tarfire


You did well against Czech Pile. It's a tough MU, but with tight plays, we are still favored. Never bring Pyrokinesis, it's horrible against Leovold and a huge card disadvantage against Hymn and K Command decks. We don't want to shoot us in the feet We could also side Sharpshooter out, but he is useful against Strix and Snap, when Leo is not there, yet. Again, like in BUG/RUG/BURG decks, Relic or Blood Moon are MVPs. Stingscourger can be useful for Gurmag. I would adapt it like this, see below:

CZECH PILE
Tips: don’t try to mana denial, cast goblins instead and kill DRS ASAP
(On the play): -1 TSH, -1 Stingscourger; +2 Relic of Progenitus
(On the draw): -2 Goblin Lackey; +2 Relic of Progenitus

People like goblins. Our guys are so sexy :-)

Hi there hasty goblin

Went second again with gobbos with a solid 4-1.
I have to be honest about one thing: opponents skills really matters, even if i played decently (no misplay, just one sub-optimal line that lead me to a loss), I think I'd performed different against very experienced players.

exactly like the last time, i lost just vs jund, even if i increased thE GY-hate slots in SB to 2x RiP + 1x Relic. I'm curious to know how you play this MU and what is your SB strategy. the bad thing about jund is Turach. if they hit us once or twice, we enter the "topdeck mode" and from there is usually hard to recover, considering they play some toxic deluge, golgari charm, plague etc.. if we play around wraths keeping ringleader in hand, we will be punished by discards, while if we play around discard going all-in, we risk to be punished by wraths.


Anyway the list was a variation of the one I posted above. Main differences are:
-61 MD cards
-trimmed the 5th lord (2+2 split warchief chieftain) so I found room for:
-2x winstigator. the card is busted so I tried an hybrid version between classic and winsti list since I'm not experienced enough with the second one and don't feel 100% comfortable with it
-more triggers more party! so 2 finisher 1 kiki and 1 sgc
-trimmed the green splash for a more stable mana base, put tuk tuk instead of tin-street and goes up to 4 mountains
-added the 3rd gy-hate piece
-added the 3rd wear//tear. plague is always present in black decks here and a friend of mine play food chain every time. thanks to this i have acces to 5 artifact hate (1 main tuktuk, 1 sb tuktuk+ 3 wear tear)

Hi menph,

Congrats for your victories, but don't be sad for your loss to Jund. It's quasi unwinnable for classic goblins. You noted that keeping our gobs until the right moment expose us to Hymn and going all in exposes them to wrath. I think Winstigator is favored, because of Chieftain that prevent Golgari Charm. Instigator punches Dark Confidant, DRS and Bloodbraid Elf and even an early Tarmo with Pendelhaven back-up post block. They don't have counters, only discard, so all 4 Tarfires should hit something, Liliana of the Veil being target number one. Three GY hate should be enough, but if you can, try to bring Pithing Needle for Liliana, she is so annoying. Krenko should help resist for a few turns, at least until a wrath comes.

I always have been punished to wasteland their black sources, because Hymn is so scary, but that's wrong. They also have Wastelands and enough black sources to cast any discard. That means that keeping our mana is essential. We don't want to stack mana in our hand and meet a discard spell. We want to cast Matron/Ringleaders as soon as possible, as fast as possible to recover from discards. Removals are less of a problem, we are used to live with it from other decks. Decay, Bolts, FP, that's everyday business for goblins, we can overcome that. I don't know how others gob players see it, but I find this match-up unfavorable. Maybe the strongest Legacy Midrange deck against us.

what is everyone's thoughts on running liliana, the last hope in an instigator build? would need to go BR, but i think the 1st ability is extremely relevant for lack/instigator. 2nd ability is great for recurring matron/ringleader etc.

you also get some access to earwig squad if you're in black, which helps improve some of the combo matchups. (primarily ANT).

i hadn't really thought about it before now. has anyone else tested?

I think jund is our absolute worst matchup. I consistently get crushed by it on both lists. Luckily I don't see it all that much, but between discard, goyfs, pfires and liliana it gets real tough.