too true! I'll fix that.Quote:
Originally Posted by 203995014
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too true! I'll fix that.Quote:
Originally Posted by 203995014
RockLee, I took your decklist for a spin tonight, here is my feedback after like 6 matches:
I changed the sb a bit because I don't own Mindbreak traps on MTGO.
Here is a screenshot of the list though: http://i.imgur.com/wkRo5ps.jpg
- vs BUG I really missed both Cavern of Souls and Khalni Garden
- vs Shardless BUG I got punished for having Phyrexian Revoker instead of Pithing needle when I needled Liliana on 7 and he top decked JTMS bounced Revoker and ultimated me
- There is not enough Storm and Food chain to warrant revokers over Pithing needle on MTGO
- Needle is better G1 vs Miracles by a wide margin
- I boarded Chain of vapor out a lot
- I really wanted to cast Memnarch, have not yet
- 2nd Candelabra is nice
2014-09-11 NEW videos are here:
- vs Burn (w/ my version) - http://youtu.be/8oP9yFUO92E (G1 only since opponent rage quit)
- vs Dredge (w/ RockLee's version) - http://youtu.be/vgi6FDEpQm4
- vs Goblins R/w (w/ RockLee's version) - http://youtu.be/9HCD3_FM53g
- vs Shardless BUG (w/ RockLee's version) - http://youtu.be/87nL-_CnH8o
- vs Esperblade (w/ RockLee's version) - http://youtu.be/RZEmknRZk38
- vs BUG Delver (w/ RockLee's version) - http://youtu.be/SAsp-MkshfU
- vs Belcher (w/ RockLee's version) - http://youtu.be/8B7rU2etBao
Overall I feel like you're much stronger vs combo with this list but somewhat weaker to creature removal since needle does not get bolted/plowed/jaced/lilianad/innocent blooded.
I also did not like Chain of vapor, I never wanted to cast it. I could see it being nice when they play their last card and plus Liliana as you triumphantly slam CoV on Liliana in response but beyond that I found the "best" use for it to cast on t1 DRS. Versus BUG it may just not be a great card, they either end up bouncing your Revoker or it basically is a healing salve+. I almost feel like 2 CoV and 1 Moment's peace is stronger in your version.
What do you like CoV vs, is it just another card vs Food chain for your meta?
Off the top of my head in Ponder vs. Dig Through Time:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
- During the opponent's End Step (Ponder is a sorcery, Dig Through Time is an Instant).
- Show and Tell and Primeval Titan are both in top 7.
- Force of Will and a blue card are in top 7.
- "I need more time against this Tarmogoyf," let's Delve and find the Moment's Peace and/or Crop Rotation.
- If you're in a game that's going to last past turn 5.
And that last one is why I'm wary but still interested to see how it works. Decks, including us, try to clinch a game around turn 3 and 4, and this card doesn't go live until after that, which means its use falls into two rolls:
- Recovery
- Insurance
What I think is that this card is legacy worthy, but probably more so in another strategy. However, the effect is powerful enough that I just don't want to just not bring it up.
CoV is there for top tricks. Pseudo crop rotationing by bouncing my tapped top then sac'ing the wasteland'd land and bouncing something of theirs. Hitting a Turn 1 DRS is perfectly fine. I do that regularly, thus enabling repeals on the drs and avoiding hymn/lilly's on turn 2. CoV with Lilly is really just to prevent her from ult'ing. I can regularly handle her + ability, its her -6 that kills me, especially if there is a goyf on the table, which you have the choice of making them discard. CoV isn't there for Food Chain at all. My meta is heavy U/R delver, Burn, and Food chain, all decks that are nightmare matchups for Turbo Eldrazi. Cov can be used in resp to Price of Progress to sacrifice lands ala zuran orb style and take lessened damage to Price.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
What is the reasoning for cutting down on Vesuvas? Aside from cloning Cloudposts, this seems like a necessary 4-of to copy ETB triggers on Glimmerposts and Bojuka Bogs. I can't count how many times Vesuva has saved my life by doing this.Quote:
Originally Posted by 203995014
Why aren't people running Ulamog anymore? I rarely tutor for him. But when I do, it's for something crucial, like blowing up a planeswalker about to ultimate, taking out a combo piece, or clearing away something like Humility or Ensnaring Bridge.
Basics>Cloudpost post board... or more accurately, colored sources that come into play untapped and are Wasteland/Blood Moon proof are more important than pushing out the full 12-Post count. Mono-G doesn't have that some concern, but I will say I've learned just how few copy effects this deck actually needs because blue spells carry this deck a long way.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
I still run all three, but basically, deck space is tightening up in the UG version, so tight that people are choosing only two slots for Eldrazi and not three. In the Ulamog vs. Kozilek debate, neither one is actually a clear winner. People just go back and forth based on what they feel they need for the meta, and even personal preference plays a role. As for Rock Lee specifically, he has three Chain of Vapors and four Repeals, Ulamog becomes redundant there.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
Also Rock, what happened to Ensnaring Bridge+Karn Liberated?
That makes a lot more sense now. Resistance to Wasteland/Blood Moon is one of the main reasons I've quickly gone back to monogreen every time I try a blue splash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mockingbird
Every time I try to modify this deck I literally have nothing I want to take out of it... So I just copy the latest list.
Man I'd die without this thread. I'll get there one day.
Went 1 - 2 - 0 last night. Won 2 0 vs merfolk, lost 0 2 vs shardless bug (my best friend, knows me and the deck inside and out) and then 0 2 vs mud post. Literally the most grindy match of my life. I have all my post lands out, all of them, and I couldn't find an eldrazi. My eye of ugin got wasteland.
vs Solidarity (out of all decks?!) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gbl...ature=youtu.be
Testing a theoretical variant of the CoV list:
// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
3 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [ON] Chain of Vapor
2 [US] Show and Tell
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [US] Show and Tell
SB: 3 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 2 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [DS] Memnarch
The theory here is overload on board control and devote the sideboard to heavy stack control. A bit of a different tact from the previous concepts of combo versus control. But with current decks muddying the waters of those definitions, this provides a clearer picture of the intent of the maindeck/sideboard.
So what does Memnarch come in against? It seems like it could be relevant against any sort of "midrange" strategy.
I'm assuming that you are at triple island to help support casting his abilities?
I was about to ask that myself.
I have trouble answering the question "when would he be better than Karn" , granted I have not playtested either
Also, sauce I love your videos! So much help keep em coming!
Triple island is more for 15 of your sideboard cards being blue.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Memnarch comes in against anything midrange, permanent based combo (especially those that use blood moon), or control.Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotChick
Doesn't come in vs aggressive combo ie kills before turn 4 (infect/elves/storm/ichorid), aggro, or mana denial control (Dragon Stompy/DnT)
Just a quick additional point for Memnarch vs Karn is that you can tutor Memnarch w/ Eye of Ugin.
Which I have done several times. But importantly, you can take control of losing board states easier with memnarch. Against bug or food chain I will wait until their precombat and steal a strix/shardless agent, chump their goyf with it, and block their 2/2's. It is a complete board stall into win con. As opposed to Karn, that simply eats the goyf and you hope for another answer when the 2/2's kill karn.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
Sigh.
*orders a memnarch*
Maybe I missed it in the thread but is there a reason this deck doesn't play Blightsteel?
Doesn't have Protection from Farms.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkFindItThisWay
Makes sense. I feel kinda dumb. I play Show and Tell and have been using Blightsteel for a little while with decent enough success. I was looking into trying this deck though. Seems like a ton of fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenslight
There's nothing like playing the mirror match against someone whose Trops are Beta and whose other cards are foil to make you feel inadequate. I don't know if he posts here or not, but my hat is off to that guy.
I know of multiple people with full foil decks, a few with beta trops, and one with summer trops. The enthusiasm is quite exciting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
I am currently working toward foiling this deck. It's actually quite cheap with the exception of Misty Rainforest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Going to test Kozilek's Predator. Could fit my playstyle, seems to fit the curve and provides chump blockers / ramp... Did anyone do some testing already?
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...bf1ebe4dfa.jpg
Edit: sorry for the iPhone quality photo...
Showoff :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
I forgot about Brainstorm, that's a fun one too. I'm going for the Conspiracy ones, since it's my favorite art.
German FBBs, that op. Mine are all also language coz German >>>>all other fbb laguanges! good job!
Sauce will like this: I've reluctantly revisited cavern of souls. While I don't believe it's required, there's a growing amount of aggressive FOW decks (food chain, infect, UR, sometimes BUG) and many sticky situations can be saved by cavern when you're down on card advantage. There is a very key moment in those MUs where they are going all in with 1 force of will to hold it together. Having it in a spell slot, that is, NOT replacing a colored source is the real key to me. 3 Basics is SO important today. This also turns your maps, which often fly under the radar, into absolute daggers. When I was playing more dudes like trinket, and oracle it was even more relevant. This also shored up those FOW MUs enough to where I can keep upping the BEB count - which is becoming crucial these days.
(&, I am at 100% shiny too lol)
I really can't imagine playing w/o Cavern anymore, I tried it for a bit while testing latest RockLee build, but I missed it too much. It's too good to ignore. I do only play 1 of each basic because of my last slot being used by Khalni Garden instead. I think it's not incorrect to play a 2nd island or 2nd forest instead but I like the versatility vs BUG, titan into liliana, get khalni garden. If they don't have decay, it's often just GG.Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHarding
P.S: post your deck photo/scan
BTW : foiled the deck, too :-D Brainstorms from conspiracy, because IA artwork is not avaible in foil ;-( (like it old school). But Trops remain white bordered. Even exchanged the one german bb :-p
This could probably work if you're facing a lot of BUG or something. Otherwise, I think I'd rather have Oracle of Mul Daya in that slot. I used to run Oracle when I was using Tim's list...especially when you have a Top out, she's amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
Also, thanks to everyone else for making me feel inadequate. I guess I'll take my alters and cry in the corner :P
It's motivation to step your game up :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
Don't feel bad zot. I'm currently at 62% of the deck altered. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
We have our own niche swag.
Don't worry mines not foiled yet. At least it doesn't play Goyfs! I have to full believe/winning with the archetype to start foiling. I've been getting better, but always seem to have trouble closing out game 3 a lot of times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
But that said, I don't have completely foiled RG tron and UG edh. (Most of which cards are the same.) This may be the next foil excursion!
Also Zot, while I don't play Post, your alters are really nice.
No foils for me, but I am working on getting Beta Tropical Islands. Two down, two to go.
I recently won our AZMagicPlayers Legacy Championship series with a UG build. A report with some of my thoughts, match details and sideboarding changes was posted:
http://www.azmagicplayers.com/articl...ort-1st-place/
BTW sauce, thanks for posting all of the videos, it's good to hear some insight into your decisions and plays. Keep it up, would like to see more!
Great to hear from you again, Tony! Congrats on the wins!Quote:
Originally Posted by into_play
tony, grats on your win.Quote:
Originally Posted by into_play
I do not play Kozilek because I rarely would want to fetch it up. Usually you need Ulamog to kill a JTMS/Delver/Liliana to stabilize where a draw 4 cards would not do anything.
I cut him because both of the other targets are just superior. Now if you got nothing going on and you just get to cast him and the board is clear otherwise, then yeah, you will draw 4 and win the game. Ulamog would most likely do the same thing (win) in that situation for 1 more mana. The 1 mana difference is important, but I don't find Kozilek's effect necessary in the way most games play out. Maybe it's just based on how I play.
Thanks for watching my vids, I will upload more when I record them :)
Went 3 and 1 last night at a local shop. Beat out janky death and taxes 2 - 0, dredge 2 - 1 (made a HORRIBLE play the first game; tapped a turn 1 trop for a divining top with a crop rotate in hand.) and lastly I beat gobblins 2 - 0.
Then I lost to some dark maverick deck. I don't even know what to call it; it's like aggro loam maverick something. It's bug, runs Knight of the relequary, wasteland, lilly, Jace, goyfs, deathrite shaman, and a bunch of other stuff that was a nightmare. Then he sided in choke against me on game 2 too.
I apologize if it's been discussed before but what do you guys make of this match-up? Any tips? Besides what's in the first post...
Since they can't counter your titan or S&T, that should be your plan (as is vs all other midrange decks.) I would not S&T an Eldrazi vs them since they got Liliana/KoTR (for Karakas most likely.)Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotChick
You should be easily able to navigate around wastelands w/ pithing needle, crop rotation.
Congrats on the victory. I've seen your lists on MTGGoldfish as well! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by into_play
I'm curious about obstinate baloth. He's obviously good against Lilliana & Burn. Do you think it's really worth it? I was playing it, got it in for free off of a Hymn. It killed a lilliana and then did 12 points of damage before getting outclassed by a tarmogoyf. At that point in that particular match, we were in the topdeck war and Mono-green post failed to close out the game. For that particular event, baloth was a 1 of, so yeah...we were in magical Christmas land!