[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

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Originally Posted by jimirynk

Also I don't see a reason why adding red means you have to include burning wish? The Red enables bombs like REB/Fire'n'ice/Ajani Vengeant.

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It's kind of hard to imagine that adding Burning Wish, if you were to splash red, wouldn't be an excellent move for a deck that is brilliant at drawing things out until enough mana has been built up to really abuse tutorable sorceries.

The main deck uses of Burning Wish would basically be to allow more flexibility in the build. If you were 4c (no green) you'd be able to put a Wrath of God and a Vindicate in the sideboard as an example, with Burning Wish being some flex for you at the cost of a turn sometimes. Add Banefire and Rolling Earthquake (fast token destruction) to the sideboard and you've probably helped the deck overall given that drawing Wrath of God when you want Vindicate and vice-versa can be tough to manage at times. If you went 4c (no black) then you've got Wrath of God and Life from the Loam in the sideboard alongside Banefire and either Rolling Earthquake or Firespout. It just seems like a win-win in a 4c deck.

In a 3c deck without black or green I'm not sure it's such a good play. Stashing a Wrath of God (or 2 if you wanted access to 4) without another narrow staple sorcery alongside it makes Burning Wish kind of narrow, although the ability to go get Rolling Earthquake against tokens or Banefire to finish would still be there.

Burning Wish is surprisingly good. It can grab a win condition (Telemin Performance, Decree, Banefire) or Removal (Pyroclasm, Wrath, Terashi's Grasp) or draw (Deep Anal, Compulsive Research). It is pretty damn good.

I agree with FoaT although I think Glittering Wish maybe a better option in 4c Landstill (UBGw) allowing you to wish for Vindicate/Pulse/Deeds for board answers. I still dislike sorcery-speed tutors. I like the element of surprise. Burning Wish's only application are in decks where they go Wish and play a spell on the same turn i.e. aggro loam, combo. Giving the opponent a turn to answer your threat isn't good and I much prefer to use Cunning Wish, since you can do it in response to a spell/ability on stack, whereas burning wish doesn't offer that.

Although if you do wish and play out your spell, that's fine, but it will cost a lot, and run into problems where you die to Daze due to wanting to play out everything in that turn. I think I have to test it though, and shouldn't dismiss it yet, but experience with Cunning Wish tells me the importance of instant-speed answers in Landstill (which is even more crucial after drawing cards off a Standstill and digging for an answer e.g. FOW).

I'm actually getting a minor rise out of the thought of an FoF into Burning Wish. That's like an instant draw 4 unless you turn up 2 of them in which case the opponent probably seizes and drops under the table.

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Also, the prevalence of SDT in the meta means it's easy for your opponent to float bombs on top (Counterbalance/FoF/FoW/etc.), wait until you whiff with your discard, then draw into what they were protecting. Think about counter battles, REB on FoW is straight up back-breaking: 2-for-1 for only

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Negate and Counterspell (if you don't have a full set of Counterspells preboard) also help win counter wars and don't push you into red. Also, they can counter other random bombs in the control matchups, like Crucible, and planeswalkers. Yes they cost 2, but counter wars rarely happen early in the mirror. Against Counterbalance thresh, I'd rather bring in something that has other functions than R: counter target Counterbalance or Force of Will, so the fact that Negate and Counterspell are easier to Daze wouldn't worry me if I were to play those out of the sideboard.

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Lastly, Engineered Plague is often not enough versus Merfolk.

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This is true, but if you manage to keep their Lord effects off the table with a Plague in play, they have to find an Echoing Truth to put you under any sort of pressure. Then, they either need to play a Lord/Reejery or have a Force of Will to counter it. I realize merfolk is a tough matchup, but UW or UWB have just as good or better maindeck and sideboard options for this matchup, and others across the board. Wog accomplishes the same thing as Firespout, is much less narrow, and doesn't force you to fetch off-color duals, which is important in mu's where they attack your manabase. Yes, it is a turn slower, but against any deck besides zoo/sligh it's irrelevant since you play other spells (FOW, CS/Snare, Swords, EE) to slow them down, and against those two decks I board out my Wraths and two Humility as well.

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Fire//Ice against Bobs and smaller Goyfs. In the late game, tapping out with Ice can mean a game or two as you beat in.

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Fire will almost never kill Goyf. Also, how many times is the tapping a permanent in a game as relevant as being able to kill a threat with a toughness greater than 2? A lot less. In this deck, being able to permanently answer any creature besides Nimble Mongoose (who is seeing less play recently) is much better than 1U Fog, draw. Path to Exile is fantastic, play it if you want more cheap spot removal.

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(Landstill does fine against moon, but this makes it much better than UWb for example, which causes many cards to be dead).

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If landstill does fine against Bloodmoon decks, why does the fact that the red splash is "better" matter? Path to Exile also kills Magus, (unless of course they have a Chalice set at 1) is in color, and doesn't suck against Tarmogoyf. Also, the only times I've lost against Dragon stompy with 3c landstill were when I've punted. If you run a good manabase with plenty of basic lands, you can cast your WW spells, which are fantastic against that deck.

@Misplayer
I don't consider those decks to be a bad matchup. Mostly because I am acclimated to an environment where the most popular decks tend to be aggro. But to say that Burning Wish for a Flamespout or Wrath of God is better than just running Flamespout or Wrath of God for these matchups is silly; obviously, Burning Wish will cost you speed due to its sorcery-speed nature, which is a drawback that Cunning Wish does not have.

I have no problem with Red Elemental Blast. I would go far as to say that it's better than Blue Elemental Blast.

I always felt that the splash should play only a supporting role. Building a deck around Burning Wish is not that.

I'm not talking about CounterTop... and how does Bolt remove Bridge From Below? Are we talking about killing your own token or Mishra's Factory? To be honest, I doubt they would care. You're paying 1-2 cards to remove a card that was probably just Dredged into the graveyard for free. I fail to see how Lightning Bolt being better than Swords effects figure into Dread Return.

I was kidding about the URw thing, talking mostly about how it sounds. I did not expect you to entertain it.

The Silver Bullet argument is flawed. If a card like Telemin Performance is so good, why not maindeck it or sideboard it in? I can see the appeal of the versatility, but to say you are not sacrificing is untrue. Your performance against aggro will be slower by the two additional mana necessary to play Burning Wish. More when you throw in Cursecatchers and whatnot.

I don't think Burning Landstill will work. The sorcery-speed drawback is simply too much a sacrifice in speed for a pure control deck in Legacy.

@crz87
If your environment is aggro like mine, stick to white or black. I have 8 Sword effects and 4 Blue Elemental Blast, 7 sources of mass removal, and 2 Humility altogether in my maindeck and sideboard. If black, stick to Engineered Plague, Planar Void, and Extirpate.

I always liked Braid of Fire, but I wonder how it is going to work when mana burn is removed in the M2010 rules. I mean, it works right now thanks to Sensei's Divining Top. Will it be banned? Hmmm...

Against Zoo, remember, Blue Elemental Blast is your friend. Kills everything but Tarmogoyf pretty much. Then the Humility hits the board. xD

@Shawn
I agree. I find Swords much more effective against aggro than burn. A red splash is unnecessary. Black is perhaps the best option, followed by green.

But I disagree on REB. REB is an amazing card. It is even better than Spell Snare in some matchups.

@Misplayer
I disagree. Engineered Plague is enough, provided you make sure a Lord of Atlantis doesn't hit the board.

I think you should cut Counterspell. Your deck does not look geared to find early UU; I mean, at least cut the Wastelands instead of pretending like you have some mana fixers. And the sideboard needs a bit of work.

@crz87
NLU is Next Level Blue, right? I personally cannot readily identify a single stable variant of NLU. Everybody seems to run it as they wish.

But yeah, splashing a tiny bit of red for REB is interesting. I mean, I could try UWgr for kicks. xD

@Jak.
OR you can just play one of those cards in Burning Wish's place and not splash red, thus sparing you the drop in mana consistency and the sacrifice in speed. ^^

@crz87
Glittering Wish sort of suffers from the same problems. I tried that route once. Did not work out well for me.

Just to change subject, has anybody seen this?

Goblin Chieftain 1rr
Creature - Goblin
Haste
Other Goblin creatures you control get +1/+1 and have haste.

Elvish Archdruid 1gg
Creature - Elf Druid
Other Elf creatures you control get +1/+1.
{T}: Add {G} to your mana pool for each Elf you control.

Merfolk Sovereign 1uu
Creature - Merfolk
Other Merfolk creatures you control get +1/+1.
{T}: Target Merfolk creature is unblockable this turn.

While I don't bother too much on the archdruid, and I'm meh about the sovereign, the chieftain ihmo needs some attention... As far as I can see, no good cards for landstill in M10, excpet maybe for:

Planar Cleansing 3www
Sorcery
Destroy all nonland permanents.

(akroma's vengeance that destroys planeswalkers).

Akroma's Vengeance costs 4WW. But this deals with Planeswalkers.

@gustha
YOU FORGOT GLACIAL FORTRESS! =DDD

Okay, it's not THAT great, given Wasteland and all that, but the art is gorgeous.

BUT... YOU FORGOT SILENCE!!! =DDD

It is strictly better than Orim's Chant for spell-stopping in that it does not target and it stops all players in a multiplayer game! =D

And there's the 3/4 flying Stalking Stones.



Anyhow, is the entire list out yet? Somehow, I feel blue and white control are really getting the short end of the stick. White Weenie looks nice for Standard though. Elite Vanguard and Veteran Armorer AND White Knight AND Stormfront Pegasus AND Honor of the Pure AND Captain of the Watch (a Lord and Siege-Gang in one!), all in the same set??? =O

Oh, and whoever developed Great Sable Stag needs to die. It's the "Knight" that green needed for all these years, coming finally as one creature in an environment where it will not shine because its creature type is ELK.

AND LIGHTNING BOLT? ARE YOU SERIOUS? LIGHTNING FRIKKIN' BOLT?

Oh, and in other news, Grim Monolith is unrestricted in Vintage. Meaning buying my playset while their prices plummeted was worthwhile! =D


We've got plenty of threads on M10, guys. Don't waste your posts on a deck thread. ~NC

So I decieded to stick to UWb Landstill. Having thought about it, I should win the aggro matchups anyway without red, and control matchup has to be won via card advantage, and I don't want to lose to combo with UWr. This is my list that I'm possibly taking to my meta (ZooZooZoo, Deadguy, maybe merfolks/goyf sligh, aggro loam, Ichorid, ANT, Worb Thresh, Imperial Painter)

4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
2 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
2 Island
2 Plains
2 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins

1 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
2 Cunning Wish
1 Fact or Fiction

4 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will

3 Engineered Explosives
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vindicate
2 Wrath of God
1 Humility

2 Decree of Justice
2 Elspeth

SB:
1 Fact or Fiction (for useless wish scenarios)
1 Enlightened Tutor (against aggro, grabbing Still or Humility)
1 Pulse of the Fields (against aggro)
1 Return to Dust (against Painter/Stax/enchantress/random)
1 Path to Exile (against aggro/loam)
2 Extirpate (against combo/Ichorid)
2 Ethersworn Canonist (against combo/Enchantress)
2 Relic (against Goyfs/Tombstalkers/Ichorid)
1 Crucible (against Deadguy/mirror/dreadstill)
3 BEB (against Zoo). I might do a 2/2 BEB/Negate


So far, I've loved Mystical Tutor in Vindicate builds. I dislike the speedstill lists since I feel that it's too aggro-oriented i.e. Diabolic Edict is very narrow, especially since you can't target. Tutor grabs StP/Vindicate/Wrath/FoF/Wish/Decree/!!!!Brainstorm (which is surprisingly useful at times when you need to dig for a land).

I like MTutor more than ETutor in this build, i.e. This is a faster build, having answers with StP/Vindicate/Wrath, which is a hybrid with Wishstill and Speedstill. It's worked out good for me. I used to hate Decree, but with this build, I have a faster gold-fish rate. FoF is so damn broken. I would play with 2 but I really have no space. MTutor as the 2nd FoF is much better in my testing, being able to grab any answer I need.

Just a question, do you usually cycle decree for 3-4 tokens or would you save it for a bigger cycle when your opponent has no board? My experience is to cycle it fast, get some dudes out and answer the rest with StP/EE/Vindicate. The only problem I have with the build is the same with any landstill build i.e. if you don't hit your landdrops consistently, you're really screwed.

That's my optimized list for tomorrow. Any comments help with regards to the meta would be appreciated :)

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Originally Posted by Taishaku

@Misplayer
I don't consider those decks to be a bad matchup. Mostly because I am acclimated to an environment where the most popular decks tend to be aggro. But to say that Burning Wish for a Flamespout or Wrath of God is better than just running Flamespout or Wrath of God for these matchups is silly; obviously, Burning Wish will cost you speed due to its sorcery-speed nature, which is a drawback that Cunning Wish does not have.

I have no problem with Red Elemental Blast. I would go far as to say that it's better than Blue Elemental Blast.

I always felt that the splash should play only a supporting role. Building a deck around Burning Wish is not that.

I'm not talking about CounterTop... and how does Bolt remove Bridge From Below? Are we talking about killing your own token or Mishra's Factory? To be honest, I doubt they would care. You're paying 1-2 cards to remove a card that was probably just Dredged into the graveyard for free. I fail to see how Lightning Bolt being better than Swords effects figure into Dread Return.

I was kidding about the URw thing, talking mostly about how it sounds. I did not expect you to entertain it.

The Silver Bullet argument is flawed. If a card like Telemin Performance is so good, why not maindeck it or sideboard it in? I can see the appeal of the versatility, but to say you are not sacrificing is untrue. Your performance against aggro will be slower by the two additional mana necessary to play Burning Wish. More when you throw in Cursecatchers and whatnot.

I don't think Burning Landstill will work. The sorcery-speed drawback is simply too much a sacrifice in speed for a pure control deck in Legacy.

@crz87
If your environment is aggro like mine, stick to white or black. I have 8 Sword effects and 4 Blue Elemental Blast, 7 sources of mass removal, and 2 Humility altogether in my maindeck and sideboard. If black, stick to Engineered Plague, Planar Void, and Extirpate.

I always liked Braid of Fire, but I wonder how it is going to work when mana burn is removed in the M2010 rules. I mean, it works right now thanks to Sensei's Divining Top. Will it be banned? Hmmm...

Against Zoo, remember, Blue Elemental Blast is your friend. Kills everything but Tarmogoyf pretty much. Then the Humility hits the board. xD

@Shawn
I agree. I find Swords much more effective against aggro than burn. A red splash is unnecessary. Black is perhaps the best option, followed by green.

But I disagree on REB. REB is an amazing card. It is even better than Spell Snare in some matchups.

@Misplayer
I disagree. Engineered Plague is enough, provided you make sure a Lord of Atlantis doesn't hit the board.

I think you should cut Counterspell. Your deck does not look geared to find early UU; I mean, at least cut the Wastelands instead of pretending like you have some mana fixers. And the sideboard needs a bit of work.

@crz87
NLU is Next Level Blue, right? I personally cannot readily identify a single stable variant of NLU. Everybody seems to run it as they wish.

But yeah, splashing a tiny bit of red for REB is interesting. I mean, I could try UWgr for kicks. xD

@Jak.
OR you can just play one of those cards in Burning Wish's place and not splash red, thus sparing you the drop in mana consistency and the sacrifice in speed. ^^

@crz87
Glittering Wish sort of suffers from the same problems. I tried that route once. Did not work out well for me.

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Okay, you seem to misunderstand he role of Burning Wish. The deck isn't built around it. As you can see from the list I threw together, Burning Wish acts as anything I want it to. Do I think it is slow? Yes. Do I think it is worth it? Yes. Going turn 3 Burning Wish--> turn 4 Firespout will win you the game against Merfolk, Elves, and Goblins. Sometimes a Turn 4 Wrath isn't possible because of Wasteland, Stifle, Daze, and Port so having cheap answers actually is faster. The versatility is amazing.

Now, Fire/Ice alongside Swords is amazing against Aggro. Burn is better most of the time because it can two for one and it is cheaper. In my list I was still running plenty of removal MD (4 Swords, 3 EE, 2 Wrath) alongside the Fire/Ice. Plus 3 Burning Wish for access to Wrath Vengeance, etc. The deck doesn't lose out on the removal.

The reason a Wish board is so good is because you can run narrow answers that win you the game. Holding off Tendrils or another Landstill variant long enough o B Wish for Performance will mill their whole library. The card would be terrible against Thresh, Eva Green , Goblins, or any other deck with more than 10 creatures. Even if you did cut the Burning Wishes in my list, you lose 3 Removal spells, 3 Draw spells, and 3 Win Conditions. It can act as all those cards.

Please think about what you are saying. Multiple times in you post you just keep saying, 'Why not run Firespout MD?' or 'If Telemin Performance is soo good, why don't you play it MD?'. It isn't possible without Burning Wish.

Regarding the post crz87 made, what's the general verdict on the 'speedstill' lists with the heavy black splash for additional removal? Is it even worthwhile since we have PtE now? Playing a zillion edicts seems inferior to just adding 4 more swords.

I think Vindicate is much more Flexible than Path, although I can see Edicts getting replaced by Path instead of Vindicate. It fits the 3cc slot nice in Speedstill lists.

I'll post results tomorrow if I decided to play this instead of Belcher. If someone plays DStompy, then I won't play Belcher. I think it's much worse for Belcher to fight 3Sphere.dec than for Landstill to fight 3Sphere/Moon.dec :P

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Originally Posted by Ectoplasm

Regarding the post crz87 made, what's the general verdict on the 'speedstill' lists with the heavy black splash for additional removal? Is it even worthwhile since we have PtE now? Playing a zillion edicts seems inferior to just adding 4 more swords.

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For reference, here's my current list (it's been working just fine for me):

4 Standstill
4 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Path to Exile
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
2 Jace Beleren
2 Elspeth, Knight’s Errant

4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Dust Bowl
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Island
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SB:
4 Engineered Plague
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Jace Beleren
1 Kitchen Finks
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As you see I've cut Smothers and Edicts. This move seemed logical due to a number of reasons: more emphasis on UW = consistency and stability, Spellsnare (Edict/Smother no likey) and the fact 7 Swords alongside 2 EE & 4 Vindicate is more than enough removal most of the time. I really only wish for more against Tribal.dec and that's where those 4 Plagues come in.

I could write several essays on Jace and Finks but they've been discussed at length and were mostly discarded. Talking Speedstill, Finks is still my #1 weapon of choice VS aggro, while Jace is my #1 bomb VS control.
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Anyway, I'm aware that the Speedstill approach is kind of misleading for the general discussion of topics in this thread since it's got a slightly different concept, which is why I'd suggest to continue the discussion via PM, if there's any interest.

As promised, here's a report. I decided to play Landstill instead of Belcher and not betray Brainstorm and FOW. So here goes my report. Note the 1MD Mystical Tutor (MTutor). It was golden MVP all day.

(for more information for Houston Legacy, go to http://www.asgardgames.net/forums/in...27.msg2989#new)

Tournament 16: 06/28/09
Top 4:
1st/2nd split: Brian with UBr ANT, Chris Z with UBw Wishstill
3rd: Reed with Burn
4th: Andrew with Dragonstompy

Participants
Jeff - Team America
Brian - UBr ANT
Chris Zhou - UWb Wish-still
Dan - RGw Zoo
Patrick - Tokens bombardment?
Michael - LED Dredge
Reed - Burn
Joey - RGw Zoo
Andrew - Dragonstompy
????? - Red Death???

Who was the last guy?

Landstill is THE deck that I love. I felt so much smoother playing it. Man, it seriously hates out Zoo.

Here's my report for those interested:

DECKLIST:
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
2 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
2 Island
2 Plains
2 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins

1 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
2 Cunning Wish
1 Fact or Fiction

4 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will

3 Engineered Explosives
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vindicate
2 Wrath of God
1 Humility

2 Decree of Justice
2 Elspeth

SB:
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Return to Dust
2 Path to Exile
2 Extirpate
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Crucible
3 BEB



MATCH 1: Dan with RGw Zoo

Game 1:
He wins the die roll and bolts, drop Nacatl and Goyf which I snared. He swings and Helix me bringing my life total down to 11. I swords Nacatl and he dropped Jitte followed by Helix bringing my life to 8. EOT I MTutor for Wish and proceed to stabilize with Pulse. He drops and equips Pridemage and I wrath the lonely cat. He draws land pass go, EOTFOF:
A) Elspeth
B) Vindicate
B) Standstill
B) Factory
B) Land
I take pile B. He was afraid of Elspeth beats but I think B was the stronger pile since it was card advantage and a beater with Vindicate against his next creature drop (I still have pulse).

Funnily, I topdeck Elspeth and dropped Elspeth and Standstill. He scoops.


Game 2: -1 Snare, -3 Vindicate, +2 Path, +3 BEB
I open with Wasteland, FoF, Standstill, Decree, 2 Plains, Tundra. Very weak hand but I kept it for some stupid reason. I guess I was afraid of missing Landdrops and losing because of it, and I figured that with all the newly boarded hate, I'll have a high chance of drawing them.

Game turned out to be alright as I expected. He plays Lavamancer and I path it, having bad experience with the Red mage. He lands pridemage and I waste Taiga since he didn't drop a land after my path. He gets stuck on no mana and my life went from 18/15/12/8 as 1/1 Ape gets in there with 2/2 cat. I play Elspeth and he plays Lavamancer. I made the mistake by FOF hoping to draw a path/swords/BEB where I should have cycled decree to chump and bought time since I had wish in hand. I wished for pulse next turn but he had Fireblast + REB to protect it.

Game 3: no changes to board
I open with StP, EE, Tundra, Factory, Humility, Standstill, Wish. Strong hand. He plays Nacatl and I StP EOT and drop Standstill. He cracks the still with Teeg (damn!) and I drew into StP which sends Mr T. to the farms. I land Humility not missing a land drop and the game ends there after he overextends and I wrath.


2-1



MATCH 2: Patrick with Tokens bombardment

Game 1:
I had no idea what he was playing as he opened with T1 birds. I guessed Survival/Rock. He lands Goyf while I play out my land drops against a 0/1 Goyf and 0/1 Bird. He plays Fecundity. I was lost. I played Elspeth and he swings in with 1/2 Goyf which I blocked and drew a card off Fecundity. I decided to Vindicate Fecundity before he had some card-draw shenanigan. I make him overextend and get 2 counters on a resolved Jitte before I wrath with him hellbent. I snared Goyfs and proceed to beat with factories, and land Elspeth drawing 2 FOWs as I swing in with 6 damage a turn.


Game 2: -1 Vindicate, -1 Humility, + 2 Path (no idea what he played but extra StP against Goyf is good.)
I kept an iffy hand of 2 Factories, Vindicate, EE, Path, Island, FOW. Topdecked a SS and things get better as he didn't play out anything for 2 turns. I beat with Factory and resolved Elspeth, Decreed and Standstill. His life went from 20/18/12/4.

I played him a couple of games later and realized his deck. It's really interesting. Garruk+Bitterblossom+Thrinax+Fecundity+Jitte+Goblin Bombardment. It made me want to make a deck with Fecundity. That was the one card that I was scared all day long. Card advantage!


4-1





MATCH 3: Draw into Top 4 with Andrew (Dragonstompy)

Playtested a game. It involves me playing against turns 1-2, floating white to StP Magus, letting Bloodmoon resolve after fetchin basic Plains and Island, and blowing up Mauler + Bloodmoon with EE, and Wrathing, StPing all his creatures, and landing Factories to win.

This matchup is not as unfavorable if you can fetch 2 basics. It's just a more troublesome aggro deck, but EE does a lot for the deck. Wish goes for Return to Dust, which is helpful.

5-1-1



MATCH 4: Reed with Burn

Game 1:
I hit myself in the face since I wasn't expecting burn. Worst matchup for Landstill but winnable with Wish-builds. MTutor was MVP all day.

He wins the die roll and goes with Spike + Marauder. My life total drops 20/17/16/13 before I land Standstill. Reed is inexperienced so I had to explain Standstill to him. He seemed not to understand that drawing 3 cards is a good thing as he's cool with Standstill. It was cute. I commented drawing 3 cards is huge. He cracks it with PoP for 4 damage, I'm at 9, then 5, and I wish and pulsed. For the rest of the game, he burned while I pulsed carefully. My life jumped like this:
5/9/6/10/7/3/2/6/14/11/8 and Standstill and his life was going liek 20/17/15/13/11/9/7/5. I'll let you figure what killed him. I believe Factory was involved while Pulsing away.


Game 2: -2 Wrath, -1 Humility, -3 EE, +3 BEB, +2 Extirpate, + 1 Fact (probably should have kept EE against Vortex, forgot about it, but BEB does it)

I open with super strong hate-hand against burn:
FOW, snare, 2 Standstill, MTutor (again, MTutor means Pulse is coming if I can protect it from REB, but apparently he didn't side them in).

He opens with Chain, Lava Spike, Fanatic. I hated but I FOWed fanatic because I needed to land Standstill not risking Fanatic coming in under Standstill and putting my life on danger. So my life went from 20/17/14/13/12/9/8 while I drew 3 off Standstill and laid another Standstill. He had another Fanatic under my Standstill but I played the Standstill since I had decree to cycle and chump. He cracks Standstill with PoP and I snare it, wished for Pulse and did the life dance from 12/9/13/12/9/8/5/9. He tried his best but it wasn't going anywhere as his life went from 20/18/15/10/5/0 (Elspeth was involved).


Comments:
MTutor is enormous. 1 MD felt right. I think 2 might be too much in theory but testing 1MD is golden. I was able to tutor for Cunning Wish for Pulse for the aggro matchups, and tutor for Vindicate for pin-point removal, or Wrath against swarm, or FoF when I needed cards. I really need to play 2 FoF, but the list is very tight at the moment. EE was amazing, and there were no dead cards at all in this build. Humility came down once and was amazing since my Zoo opponent (Dan) didn't expect artifacts/enchantments so didn't board in grips. Honestly, I might take the Humility out and play 2 FoF, and take Enlightened Tutor out in the SB for a free slot.

Pulse is stupidly good against aggro/burn. Against Zoo, they can't counter it, so it's golden. I think UWb does really well against Zoo, Goblins, Red tribal, combo to some extent if you have Negates in the board, and resilient to DStompy. It probably has bad matchups with Merfolks and Vial.deck, but Speedstill list is really strong against aggro. 6 StP effects was good. 8 is overboard since we have 16 ways of dealing with them (2 Wrath, 4 StP, 2 Path, 3 EE, 1 Humility, 3 Vindicate).

I love playing with huge card advantage, and recovering from card loss after removal. I love it when my opponents are hellbent and I have a full 7 card in hand with counter magic and a clear board. I love landstill and I love FoF <3

My list is a hybrid of Speedstill and wish-still so I hope you guys enjoyed the read. Cunning Wish is too valuable in the deck. Pulse saves lives and Return to dust is really strong against Stompy.dec or Stax. I tested a few games against Dredge and surprisingly it wasn't that bad Game 1. You need to FOW the discard, StP the first Ichorid if possible, and wasteland/Vindicate their mana hoping they never get a land, and wait until Cunning Wish for Extirpate on ichorid if you have EE@0 or Extirpate on Bridge if you don't have EE.



@Klaus: I like the new list, looks interesting and I like Kitchen Finks, but maybe it's you but I think there's too much aggro-hate. I would cut to zero paths in the MD, and run 2 Wish. You have 4 Vindicates, 4 StP, 2 EE to deal with aggro. Maybe a Wrathless Landstill is good. Wrath did help clear messy boards for me today, so depending on the meta, if there's tribal/zoo, wrath is better, and i would drop 1 Vindicate and play 2 Wraths, but 3 Path MD is good against aggro (which I boarded in today, total 6 StP effect) but I think dropping them for Game 2/3 is better since you can play better against combo/other non-aggro decks. Landstill can win the aggro matchups easily anyway.

I like 2 Jace. I really want to play them, and they're golden against the mirror or control.

2 plains 1 island is the key to dragon stompy. You achieve this you win, if you don't you need to be able to win through their attrition which can be nearly impossible sometimes.

Team Awesome tried wish vindicate. In all of my testing I found both together to be too clunky. In my testing I found that either path was more playable in the vindicate slot because of efficiency; or that relic was simply better at doing what relic does best; hoze asshats for using their ass-hattery to ass-hat themselves into a better ass-hatting position. This was usually achieved with the power of blue cards like brainstorm and ponder, but sometimes LFTL was used behind this asshatting nonsense.

p.s. Ass-Hat...

Hi there, I played this list in two tournaments this week and went 3-0 and 3-1-1.
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [A] Underground Sea
1 [U] Scrubland
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
4 [B] Tundra
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
3 [A] Island (2)
3 [5E] Plains (1)
1 [MM] Dust Bowl

// Spells
3 [OD] Standstill
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [B] Counterspell
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
2 [TE] Humility
4 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [JU] Cunning Wish
2 [A] Wrath of God

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 3 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [TSP] Return to Dust
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 2 [LRW] Ajani Goldmane
SB: 2 [FNM] Engineered Plague
SB: 1 [4E] Blue Elemental Blast

The list is really good atm and the SB can be changed to whatever you expect. I turned away from Vindicates now because of the low blue count it acquires.(Does anyone need a Playset simchin Vindis?^^)

I lost to Goblins because he got nuts with me don´t playing a spell. The Draw was against Zoo because he killed my Elspeth before the turns were called but I already had Pulse so it was actually a Win for me :/

B2Topic: I like Ajani Vengeant and therefor like the Idea of an Uwrx LS version but I still don´t see why it should be better :/ We make ourselve more vulnerable against CB and Spell Snare and loose the Power of Pulse. Seems meh to me.

nqn


PS: I think I´ll cut TOlaria West. It always sucked in my openers and was never really useful in the past ~5 tournaments. Maybe I go for more basics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by klaus

For reference, here's my current list (it's been working just fine for me):

<llist>

---

I find the list very interesting. Only 1 thing bothers me. The blue count has this been a issue for you in the past?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waikiki

I find the list very interesting. Only 1 thing bothers me. The blue count has this been a issue for you in the past?

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Sometimes, yes.
I'm not sure whether upping the blue count would be beneficial, since I'd have to add suboptimial cards. I think 17 U cards is the bare minimum to run with FOW. The list above has 18, which, considering Jace and Standstill provide you with enough CA, are sufficient most of the time.

The only choice that I'd reconsider atm is that 4th Vindicate, which could easily be replaced by CS. But I'm hesitant to do so, since Vindicate is a crucial out against a resolved CB, whereas CS is not really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NQN

Hi there, I played this list in two tournaments this week and went 3-0 and 3-1-1.
<snip>

The list is really good atm and the SB can be changed to whatever you expect. I turned away from Vindicates now because of the low blue count it acquires.(Does anyone need a Playset simchin Vindis?^^)

I lost to Goblins because he got nuts with me don´t playing a spell. The Draw was against Zoo because he killed my Elspeth before the turns were called but I already had Pulse so it was actually a Win for me :/

B2Topic: I like Ajani Vengeant and therefor like the Idea of an Uwrx LS version but I still don´t see why it should be better :/ We make ourselve more vulnerable against CB and Spell Snare and loose the Power of Pulse. Seems meh to me.

nqn


PS: I think I´ll cut TOlaria West. It always sucked in my openers and was never really useful in the past ~5 tournaments. Maybe I go for more basics.

---

If you're serious about selling the Vindicates, shoot me a PM. I wouldn't mind getting a playset for future use somewhere, probably even add in a Watery Grave (I'm a cheap ass), Smother/Diabolic Edict mixture for a Speedstill variant.

For the deck that I have now (mossivo's shell with my SB), I'm also considering cutting Tolaria West/Dust Bowl for 2x Wasteland. Something about me, or my playstyle where I'm just not gelling with it (I get the same issue with TW in my opener as well). That can't really be fixed :P

I don't see the merit in UWrx Landstill either, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

@NQN - black splash and no Vindicate? What's the plan against Planeswalkers?

The black splash expresses its power in 3 ways, first it gives you access to Vindicate which is the strongest single card removal in the game, second it gives you access to EE@3, and finally it gives you access to Extirpate and maybe Diabolic Edict in the wish board. I just don't see opening yourself up to extra non-basic hate unless you are getting the best bang out of the transaction.

I splash black for EE@3, Extirpate and sometimes E.Plagues.
My "plan" against Planeswalker is that since nobody except us plays them,
the legendary rule is helpful sometimes ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NQN

I splash black for EE@3, Extirpate and sometimes E.Plagues.
My "plan" against Planeswalker is that since nobody except us plays them,
the legendary rule is helpful sometimes ;)

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That works for Elspeth and maybe Jace. The Planeswalkers that I fear at the moment are Garruk and the Ajani's. Garruk because he over-rides Humility when he alpha-strikes and the Ajani's because they mess with a control concept's inevitability.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

That works for Elspeth and maybe Jace. The Planeswalkers that I fear at the moment are Garruk and the Ajani's. Garruk because he over-rides Humility when he alpha-strikes and the Ajani's because they mess with a control concept's inevitability.

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I haven't had much issue honestly. They're rarely played as it is and IF they hit the table I've never been unable to kill them off within a few turns with factories and decree tokens.

That being said, if they do become more prevalent, I bet that my "kill them" strategy won't be quite enough. Is there any good wishable answer to 'em?
Other than something like wipe away I suppose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rsaunder

I haven't had much issue honestly. They're rarely played as it is and IF they hit the table I've never been unable to kill them off within a few turns with factories and decree tokens.

That being said, if they do become more prevalent, I bet that my "kill them" strategy won't be quite enough. Is there any good wishable answer to 'em?
Other than something like wipe away I suppose.

---

Garruk is played enough at this point to be a problem and the Ajani's are both on the rise. The problem I have with Garruk is that the untap lands ability leads to continual acceleration once he hits the board and allows for much easier plays to bait out counters. Then the tokens that he creates become either chump blockers that can kill a Mishra's or build up over time under a Humility until the alpha-strike.

I've played against a random Token deck with bitterblossom and Garruk AND Fecundity. You have no idea how happy I had Vindicate. It saved my ass against Garruk. wrath did nothing and my factories were worthless.

Bitterblossom is easier to deal with with EE, but Garruk/Fecundity/CB/random shit is solved by Vindicate. 3 Vindicate has been good for me. I'm not sure about 4. I will probably want to play the 2nd Fact instead of the 4th Vindicate.

To be honest, if your meta isn't filled with non-basic hate (wastes/moons/B2B), 4c Landstill is easily the superior version (but that's the other thread for discussion :)) since Deeds does everything Vindicate does but better (except killing Planeswalker, which you have to counter). Garruk seems pretty good in UWg Landstill, but green doesn't offer much other than Grips and Loam. It's also another build worth exploring, but the black builds are definitely stronger with better wish targets and Vindicate.

I´ve once played against a random deck with Darksteel Forge and Nev.Disk and Darksteel Reactor and when he´s able to play them all I don´t stand a chance OMG where fucked up since we need solutions for all those nasty cards coming upon us :( [Cunning Wish -> Return to Dust still works. - Nihil]
Srsly, I´ve never saw a Garruk in front of me in an eternal tourney and the same goes for Ajani...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NQN

I´ve once played against a random deck with Darksteel Forge and Nev.Disk and Darksteel Reactor and when he´s able to play them all I don´t stand a chance OMG where fucked up since we need solutions for all those nasty cards coming upon us :( [Cunning Wish -> Return to Dust still works. - Nihil]
Srsly, I´ve never saw a Garruk in front of me in an eternal tourney and the same goes for Ajani...

---

You could splash for a 4th color and just cast EE for 4. The requirements of doing this is almost minimal, really. Also, this let's you run other cards from the SB, like REB/Pyroblast, Krosan Grips, Pernicious Deeds, and other goodies. But I've also learned that the best ways to beat decks with Planeswalkers is to... you know... run Counterspell. Really. Once you start chaining card advantage of BS, Standstills, FoF and/or SDTs, you should be winning.

Meh, that should be an example of how stupid it is to try to have an answer for everything. It´s obvious that PWs are nuts against us, but since actually only a few players have noticed how awesome they are it´s not an issue at all.

grtz,
nqn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Citrus-God

You could splash for a 4th color and just cast EE for 4. The requirements of doing this is almost minimal, really. Also, this let's you run other cards from the SB, like REB/Pyroblast, Krosan Grips, Pernicious Deeds, and other goodies. But I've also learned that the best ways to beat decks with Planeswalkers is to... you know... run Counterspell. Really. Once you start chaining card advantage of BS, Standstills, FoF and/or SDTs, you should be winning.

---

Splashing a 4th color for EE@4 creates another layer of vulnerability in the deck, this time to Moon effects and increased susceptibility to Back to Basics, Wasteland/Crucible, etc. 4c Landstill is much tougher to play at the moment than it was before the Stifle/Wasteland phenomenon began finding it's way into so many leading aggro-control competitors.

One of the huge benefits of playing Landstill is that it's such a resilient deck. UWb Landstill is maybe the most resilient build in the archetype because it has access to so many non-specific removal cards and sweepers, and has easily available graveyard hate.

Don't forget you can actually go for the throat and vindicate lands, along with throwing some wastelands around like a pro.
One time I was playing ANT and in the end all he had left was a snow-covered item, I played EOT brainstorm, ripped a vindicate and made him cry on his (completely empty) side of the table.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ectoplasm

Don't forget you can actually go for the throat and vindicate lands, along with throwing some wastelands around like a pro.
One time I was playing ANT and in the end all he had left was a snow-covered item, I played EOT brainstorm, ripped a vindicate and made him cry on his (completely empty) side of the table.

---

I did not cry:wink:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ectoplasm

Don't forget you can actually go for the throat and vindicate lands, along with throwing some wastelands around like a pro.
One time I was playing ANT and in the end all he had left was a snow-covered item, I played EOT brainstorm, ripped a vindicate and made him cry on his (completely empty) side of the table.

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I've found this to be especially true with speedstill varients where you can actually have a chance at capitalizing on the tempo especially post board. Landstill may not be a tempo deck but if you can keep their lands off for long enough it does benefit from that "tempo".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

One of the huge benefits of playing Landstill is that it's such a resilient deck. UWb Landstill is maybe the most resilient build in the archetype because it has access to so many non-specific removal cards and sweepers, and has easily available graveyard hate.

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I agree.

However, the non-specific nature of UWb Landstill can be dangerous. For instance, although Vindicate is an excellent Swiss Army Knife, it is not nearly as useful as more Sword effects in an aggro matchup; you can't hope they'll be color screwed every game.

@Jak.
Then don't name your deck after it. Unless you're a fan of naming decks like "Solidarity" or "Rabid Wombat." When you say Burning Landstill, I assume your deck revolves around Burning Wish, much like how Cunning Landstill makes a big deal about Cunning Wish.

"Going turn 3 Burning Wish--> turn 4 Firespout will win you the game against Merfolk, Elves, and Goblins..."

You do realize of course that you're pretty much announcing to your opponent that you intend to play Firespout, and that you are willing to sacrifice a turn where 1cc Engineered Explosives can safely clear Cursecatcher and Aether Vial? Also, if you're waiting until turn four to kill off the opponent's creatures, you might as well quit early. The key to stopping Merfolk and whatnot is to contain them early, killing their lords, shutting down their engines, etc.

Fire/Ice is the only burn card that can two for one in the manner described, unless we are talking about "AoE" type burn like Pyroclasm. And then, these only kill off weenie creatures. Your Flamespout and Fire/Ice are worthless against Tarmogoyf, which is in virtually every deck that plays green these days; Swords, Path, Wrath, and Vindicate are not. White/black is clearly superior to red in terms of removal because of creatures like Tarmogoyf, Mystic Enforcer, and heck, even Werebear. (On a sidenote, I typically run 4 Swords, 2 Path, 3 Wrath, 3 EE, with 2 Path, 4 BEB, and 1 Wrath in the sideboard; my metagame is very aggro.)

Quite honestly, you will be hard-pressed to find situations where you can announce to another control deck what you plan on doing the next turn at sorcery speed and actually do it. Doing a turn four Burning Wish for Telemin Performance generates a dead card unless you necessarily have more Force of Wills than they do Counterspell/Mana Leak/Negate and Force of Wills. Losing the counter war gambles away an open turn in a control matchup, and a control deck that has no options to react is a dead control deck.

All I see Burning Wish do is to provide options for game one silver bullets. Game two, it is simple to sideboard out Burning Wish for whatever silver bullet you want. But in the meanwhile, you are sacrificing speed for what looks on paper to be an easy win; perhaps you can read the flavor text of Mana Leak for my opinion on this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taishaku

Your Flamespout and Fire/Ice are worthless against Tarmogoyf, which is in virtually every deck that plays green these days; Swords, Path, Wrath, and Vindicate are not. White/black is clearly superior to red in terms of removal because of creatures like Tarmogoyf, Mystic Enforcer, and heck, even Werebear.

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He's got a point guys. Clearly we can't play white removal alongside Fire/Ice in our UWr control decks. Blasphemous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taishaku

@Jak.
Then don't name your deck after it. Unless you're a fan of naming decks like "Solidarity" or "Rabid Wombat." When you say Burning Landstill, I assume your deck revolves around Burning Wish, much like how Cunning Landstill makes a big deal about Cunning Wish.

"Going turn 3 Burning Wish--> turn 4 Firespout will win you the game against Merfolk, Elves, and Goblins..."

You do realize of course that you're pretty much announcing to your opponent that you intend to play Firespout, and that you are willing to sacrifice a turn where 1cc Engineered Explosives can safely clear Cursecatcher and Aether Vial? Also, if you're waiting until turn four to kill off the opponent's creatures, you might as well quit early. The key to stopping Merfolk and whatnot is to contain them early, killing their lords, shutting down their engines, etc.

Fire/Ice is the only burn card that can two for one in the manner described, unless we are talking about "AoE" type burn like Pyroclasm. And then, these only kill off weenie creatures. Your Flamespout and Fire/Ice are worthless against Tarmogoyf, which is in virtually every deck that plays green these days; Swords, Path, Wrath, and Vindicate are not. White/black is clearly superior to red in terms of removal because of creatures like Tarmogoyf, Mystic Enforcer, and heck, even Werebear. (On a sidenote, I typically run 4 Swords, 2 Path, 3 Wrath, 3 EE, with 2 Path, 4 BEB, and 1 Wrath in the sideboard; my metagame is very aggro.)

Quite honestly, you will be hard-pressed to find situations where you can announce to another control deck what you plan on doing the next turn at sorcery speed and actually do it. Doing a turn four Burning Wish for Telemin Performance generates a dead card unless you necessarily have more Force of Wills than they do Counterspell/Mana Leak/Negate and Force of Wills. Losing the counter war gambles away an open turn in a control matchup, and a control deck that has no options to react is a dead control deck.

All I see Burning Wish do is to provide options for game one silver bullets. Game two, it is simple to sideboard out Burning Wish for whatever silver bullet you want. But in the meanwhile, you are sacrificing speed for what looks on paper to be an easy win; perhaps you can read the flavor text of Mana Leak for my opinion on this.

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Wow, I can tell you didn't look at the decklist too hard. And wtf is up with you caring about the name. I don't even think I was the one that called it "Burning Landstill".

You do realize I had Wrath, Swords, EE, and Fire/Ice alongside those Burning Wish, right? I run just as much removal as most Landstill players. In place of 2 Decrees, I run Burning Wish. I actually have a stronger aggro MU than UWb because I run more efficient answers (ie Fire/Ice over Vindicate).

In your next paragraph, I don't even know what you are saying. I run Wrath, Swords, and EE. Wtf are you trying to get at? I could nitpick the UWb lists and say how Vindicate is horribly slow against Merfolk but would that be right? Every deck has weaker cards for some decks in their Maindeck.

You know what you could also do? Wait two turns, then cast Wish for Telemin. You have time against control. My list also more counters than the 4 Force and 4 Spell Snare lists I am seeing. I don't see why when you are going for the win that you would not wait.

Don't Burning Wish and Cunning Wish essentially have the same roles in the deck? They are those utility spells. You don't even need to SB them out since they still work well postboard.

@Roman Candle
Why run spells that cannot deal with one of the most common creature threats out there? Why not run all white/black removal? I mean heck, SMOTHER would work better than Fire/Ice when you need to handle Tarmogoyf or Kird Ape.

@Jak.
If you didn't call it Burning Landstill, then why did you answer me as if you did? Do you normally answer questions on the behalf of others? It would simplify things if you did not, as I typically do not dedicate time to memorizing who said what in this thread.

Where did I say you didn't run white removal? I simply said white is better to the point where red is an unnecessary splash, which is the crux of my argument. Yes, Fire/Ice is better than Vindicate and red equivalent to white/black in matchups against "weenie" aggro, like Merfolk or Goblins. But Fire/Ice or Flamespout is pretty dead when you need to stop a Tarmogoyf or Threshold Werebear (or pretty much anything with more than 3 toughness).

But don't get me wrong, I think Fire/Ice is an excellent card; even if it is useless, you can at least tap the Tarmogoyf and dig for another answer. However, I do not think Fire/Ice and Burning Wish justify splashing red over black or even green.

And on yet another sidenote, I don't play UWb, but I do believe that UWb is the strongest traditional Standstill variant out there.

The more time you wait, the more time they have to prepare to stop a sorcery speed card. I mean, it is really easy to play around such a limited timeframe; it's not like Solidarity, where you have to keep on your toes. Anyway, you deserve to kill control decks with Performance if they're only running 4 Spell Snare and 4 Force of Will. But when they have Counterspells, having a 5 mana disadvantage is problematic. And if they run Vendillion Clique, you may never see that Performance again.

No. Cunning Wish is instant speed. It's like me saying: "Isn't Assault the same thing as Shock?" Control needs to keep options open whenever possible. Cunning Wish can find answers to threats during an opponent's turn and use them right away, all the while keeping their mana open during the main phase. Burning Wish cannot do this. It has to be played during your turn and leaves you rather vulnerable early on; its slot might be better used for additional removal or permission.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NQN

Meh, that should be an example of how stupid it is to try to have an answer for everything. It´s obvious that PWs are nuts against us, but since actually only a few players have noticed how awesome they are it´s not an issue at all.

grtz,
nqn

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Not really. It really is almost minimal. Look at this mana base

3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
2 Island

2 Eternal Dragon

And in addition to that, running Counterspells. It's basically minimal effort when it comes to just having more diverse colors to cast EE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

Splashing a 4th color for EE@4 creates another layer of vulnerability in the deck, this time to Moon effects and increased susceptibility to Back to Basics, Wasteland/Crucible, etc. 4c Landstill is much tougher to play at the moment than it was before the Stifle/Wasteland phenomenon began finding it's way into so many leading aggro-control competitors.

One of the huge benefits of playing Landstill is that it's such a resilient deck. UWb Landstill is maybe the most resilient build in the archetype because it has access to so many non-specific removal cards and sweepers, and has easily available graveyard hate.

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If anything, you are vulnerable to those cards not because you run 4 Basic lands, 6 fetchlands and 14 non basics, you're vulnerable to those cards because you're playing Landstill.

Wow Taishaku, you really have quite the crusade going against UWr builds. I think Burning Wish is viable, so does Jak. It sounds like he's tested it with success, whereas you continue to run out hypotheticals where it sucks, which as Jak pointed out, is pretty easy to do (and Vindicate is too slow in the Merfolk matchup).

Also, I think you're overvaluing instant speed. Wrath of God is sorcery speed and is worth it. Vindicate is sorcery speed. Permanents (EE, Elspeth, Disk) are sorcery speed and these cards all make the cut. Now I'll admit that Burning Wish is a mid-to-late game flex card and it's relatively weak early (mostly because the B.Wish targets I run are weak early). There are situations where you're put into topdeck mode late game because you've just spent your resources on creating a neutral board...err..Battlefield. You topdeck Vindicate and pass, or you topdeck Burning Wish -> Banefire/Performance and win.

The larger point is games 2/3 I'm packing 4 Spell Snare, 4 FoW, 2 Counterspell PLUS 3 REB, so yeah, Performance will probably get there in the control mirror. I think access to REB alone makes the splash worthwhile in the current metagame, Burning Wish is just a potentially flexible answer/finisher.