[Primer/Deck] Pox

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Originally Posted by jredelstein

Thanks for the well wishes guys!

I have been playing (and pimping out) this deck ever since Ari Lax and Adam Prozak built it 3 years ago. Unfortunate that I got paired against burn in top 8 but I was still excited to see Charlie Mitchell make top 4 of his 1st competitive legacy event. I felt like I matched up favorably to every other deck in the top 8 I find Belcher is a even more favorable match-up than burn. And the rest of the top 8 was creature decks which I'll take all day.

I have run Sinkhole and Nethervoid at different points in time. I have even gone as deep as Firemane Angel for the Burn Match-up.

Entomb is sweet tutoring for Loam, Bloodghast, Cabal Therapy, and Lands, I have never seen a deck that utilizes entomb this well. Therapy has been the Best addition to the deck, it is awesome against every one especially Sneak and Show where Griselbrand and Sneak Attack are the only cards I care about, and stoneforge mystic decks. And there are a ton of awesome plays involving Therapy, Bloodghast, Entomb, and Mishra's Factory. (T1 Inquisition, T2 Therapy, Activate Factory, Flashback Therapy is usually backbreaking)

Graveyard hate just takes practice playing around just like with dredge, I tend to trim a loam and an entomb against decks like miracles that are not as vulnerable to wasteland. And Abrupt Decay answers RiP. Also keeping up barren moor to save your Loams or fetchlands to save Bloodghasts is just a force of habit now.

I have recently been tossing around the idea of moving crop rotation maindeck in order to play Dark Depths, I don't actually like it in my build but it is becoming a necessity in order to not go to time (I started of SCG Providence 3-0-3, inexperienced Miracles players played a part, Sensei's Top is not for the uninitiated), I also assume that it will have to take up the "creature" slots of Bloodghast and Mishra's Factory, which are both awesome against Jace.

I would love any tips that would allow me to speed up my clock, I "lock" my opponent out but can still take 5-10 mins to win after that. If new cards are suggested, I'll have to find Japanese Foil Versions :) or if not available some other form of Pimp (my hymms and karakas are miscut) I'll try to update this thread as I make changes, I have friends that check "The Source" regularly so hopefully they will update me if anything pops up here.

Thanks again,
Josh Edelstein

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congrats on the strong finish man! awesome..and that is one beautiful deck too!

i'm in a quandary why you didn't have any form of life gain(spinning darkness, zuran orb, syphon life, etc) to shore up burn knowing its a terrible match up..

i'm no expert with loampox coz' i play the monoblack version but i agree that dark depths warrant some playtesting in your list..or you could always go for "wretched anurid", he he he he.. :wink:

question:does nethervoid work well in loampox? it seems awkward with all the loaming..its probably better to go for a quick kill than a lock component like void or sphere..just my 2-cents, again im no expert with pox w/ a green splash..

again, kudos dude!

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Originally Posted by jredelstein

Thanks for the well wishes guys!

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A big congratulations!

I know a lot of people have a special place in their heart for Pox, myself included, so your finish comes as a great morale boost.

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Originally Posted by jredelstein

I have recently been tossing around the idea of moving crop rotation maindeck in order to play Dark Depths

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I've played some Loam Pox Depths myself, the pretty all in kind with 3x Depths, 3x Stage and 4x Living Wish.
No Entomb or Crop Rotation though, because of Chalice of the Void (and Mox Diamond). It's pretty satisfactory to say the least, especially against Burn and the like, as you often combo off turn 4 or 5 and disrupt them on the way there.
1x Nether Spirit main and 1x Tombstalker in the wishboard as alt. kill cons.
And of course all the Pox staples such as Liliana, Hymn, Smallpox and so on.

Now that I've seen your build, I'm tempted to make a mixture of the decks, like removing the Chalices, Moxen et al., add a few lands, Entomb, Kozilek, Raven's Crime and Deed.
Chalice does, among a great deal of things, protect combo though, we shall see..!

Again, grats and looking forward to see where you will go with the deck in the future.

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Originally Posted by jredelstein

Thanks for the well wishes guys! I would love any tips that would allow me to speed up my clock

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Thanks for joining and giving us a quick run down. Do you think you will have any time for a more in-depth report of your day?
It is a shame your only on camera match was against Burn as I would have liked to see more of the deck. Have you tried out Nether Spirit in place of one of the Ghasts just to have something that can repeatedly block? Syphon Life and Zuran Orb are the only cards I have found that beat burn. Loam/Syphon can also help speed up slow matches.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jredelstein

Thanks for the well wishes guys!

I have been playing (and pimping out) this deck ever since Ari Lax and Adam Prozak built it 3 years ago. Unfortunate that I got paired against burn in top 8 but I was still excited to see Charlie Mitchell make top 4 of his 1st competitive legacy event. I felt like I matched up favorably to every other deck in the top 8 I find Belcher is a even more favorable match-up than burn. And the rest of the top 8 was creature decks which I'll take all day.

I have run Sinkhole and Nethervoid at different points in time. I have even gone as deep as Firemane Angel for the Burn Match-up.

Entomb is sweet tutoring for Loam, Bloodghast, Cabal Therapy, and Lands, I have never seen a deck that utilizes entomb this well. Therapy has been the Best addition to the deck, it is awesome against every one especially Sneak and Show where Griselbrand and Sneak Attack are the only cards I care about, and stoneforge mystic decks. And there are a ton of awesome plays involving Therapy, Bloodghast, Entomb, and Mishra's Factory. (T1 Inquisition, T2 Therapy, Activate Factory, Flashback Therapy is usually backbreaking)

Graveyard hate just takes practice playing around just like with dredge, I tend to trim a loam and an entomb against decks like miracles that are not as vulnerable to wasteland. And Abrupt Decay answers RiP. Also keeping up barren moor to save your Loams or fetchlands to save Bloodghasts is just a force of habit now.

I have recently been tossing around the idea of moving crop rotation maindeck in order to play Dark Depths, I don't actually like it in my build but it is becoming a necessity in order to not go to time (I started of SCG Providence 3-0-3, inexperienced Miracles players played a part, Sensei's Top is not for the uninitiated), I also assume that it will have to take up the "creature" slots of Bloodghast and Mishra's Factory, which are both awesome against Jace.

I would love any tips that would allow me to speed up my clock, I "lock" my opponent out but can still take 5-10 mins to win after that. If new cards are suggested, I'll have to find Japanese Foil Versions :) or if not available some other form of Pimp (my hymms and karakas are miscut) I'll try to update this thread as I make changes, I have friends that check "The Source" regularly so hopefully they will update me if anything pops up here.

Thanks again,
Josh Edelstein

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Josh,

I took your list to a small legacy event last night. I didn't think the lock mechanisms of loam pox were as strong as mono black or BW. I REALLY missed cursed scroll...and I'm used to having nether void, but I could get used to not having it. At times I found it confusing whether I want to loam or draw, though that isn't necessarily a critique of the deck, rather of me being new to it. I seem to favor scroll because once Bloodghast starts attacking, and we are in top deck mode, unless cabal pit was milled in the yard, I was losing to my opponents top decks and my bloodghast was out classed (our deck is nearly 50% land, whereas its more like 33% in most legacy decks). And in the same situation with Nether Void, the opponent needs 4 lands before they can do anything. I would like your thoughts on how to play the deck properly in those situations.

hi, my list with some changes:

//Lands (29)
2 Barren Moor
4 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
1 Dark Depths--------
1 Thespian's Stage----------
1 Forest
3 Dryad Arbor--------
1 Windswept Heath
2 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

//Spells (29)
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Entomb-----
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Life from the Loam
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Raven's Crime
4 Smallpox

//Creatures (3)
1 Nether Spirit-------
2 Bloodghast

total: 61 cards

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 1 Glacial Chasm--------
SB: 3 Crop Rotation
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 3 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
SB: 2 Thoughtseize------
SB: 1 Karakas

I''m trying a BW list but it's hard.
my actual monoblack list:

2 Cabal Pit
3 Mishra's Factory
9 Swamp
4 Wasteland
1 Tomb of Urami
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmo..

1 Nether Spirit
2 Tombstalker
4 Bloodghast

2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Pox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Innocent Blood
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox

Hey guys. I've been following this thread lately and want to give a smal tournament report along wiht the deck I am trying out. Constructive Criticism is appreciated as I would like to take the deck to SCG Baltimore. I had a normal pox list for a while(mono black prison without Nether Void/The Abyss, etc.) but felt not having the legends staples really hurt the deck. When I first built Pox, I started with a deck that was similar to the list i played tonight but was less all in on the rack effects. I wanted to test out Waste Not so I upped the discard spells and felt the Rack Effects would work. Anyway here is the list i played tonight and went 3-1 with.

4 The Rack
4 Shrieking Affliction
3 Waste Not
1 Cursed Scroll
4 Innocent Blood
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inqusition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtsieze
4 Smallpox
3 Pox

12 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard
2 Massacre
2 Perish
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Null Rod
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Grafdigger's Cage

Round 1-Meathooks(Slivers)
Game 1- Rip apart his hand so all he has out is a few 2/2's. Then land a couple of rack effects and close out the game fast.
Game 2- Get overrun with slivers and a few lords while not doing much to stop him.
Game 3- First game where i saw waste not. was able to control the board with some innocent bloods but they were still growing too fast. Found out the massacre i boarded in was useless against his lord. Land Waste Not. He attacks me to seven. I hymn him with 1 mana up and he uses Aether Vial to flash in a sliver. He discards a Force and a Land I think. I use the two mana and the one land to drop a bridge with two cards in HAnds and he can't find his Harmonic Sliver to blow up my bridge/rack effects and I close out game.

Round 2-G/U Infect(JD Nir)
Game 1- Mull to 6 but am able to keep him down on land and no creatures but he lands an Inkmoth and stifles my Wasteland. He hits me for 9 infect after two Invigorates and I can't find the Wasteland to finisih of the Inkmoth.
Game 2- Realize that I have nothing to stop inkmoth except Night of Soul's Betrayal which I Couldnt find in time for the tournament for sideboard. Bassically same as game 1 where he eot Crop Rotation for the inkmoth and hits me for 9 Poison and drops a second Inkmoth. Only have one Wasteland and die next turn.

Round 3- Merfolk
Game 1- He mulls to five but is still able to counter my hymn and drop two lords into play. But I draw 3 Shrieking Affliction and a Liliana and finish him quick.
Game 2- He counters two of my spells but it was all part of the master plan. I was able to hymn his hand away including an echoing truth then go to 2 from double True- Name but was able to resolve a Ensnaring Bridge and quickly close the game out with Racks and Liliana.

Round 4-Bant Shardless ThopterSword deck
Game 1- Land a turn 2 Waste Not into a Hymn discarding a land and another card into another hymn hitting a land and another card into The Rack and attack with Mishra's Factory. He gets double Thopter Foundry out with sword in GY but I destroy his lands with small pox and wasteland until he doesn't have a land out to activate the thopter combo and kill him with racks.
Game 2- Keep a shaky hand with 1 swamp and a couple wastes and a factory. He gets turn 1 Ancestral Vision but I never hit a second black for the Liliana and smallpox in my hand and he SFM up a Batterskull and beats me down.
Game 3- Long Drawn out game where I make a few play mistakes but it comes down to him being able to stay at two cards in hand by spinning and drawing with top every turn to match my Liliana so he doesnt trigger my Afflcitions but still getting pinged by The Rack. Finally draw a Null Rod and he starts losing cards. He has a ancestral visions coming off suspend when it is in turns and it would go off on turn 5 of turns. HE drops agent hoping to cascade into something to draw into cards to save him from the Racks and Afflcitions but hits the last Sword to Plowshares left in his deck and passes with no cards in hand. Pas back and it is turn five. Ancestral Visions last suspend triggers but my three rack effects go on top of his suspend trigger and he dies to damage.

Overall, in games where I drew waste Not, it performed well except the second game of round 4 because I never drew the black source for my discard spells. Think I am going to trim a Massacre and Perish to make room for a Night of Soul's Betrayal and an Engineered Plague. Comments and critiques are appreciated.

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Originally Posted by lyracian

Thanks for joining and giving us a quick run down. Do you think you will have any time for a more in-depth report of your day?

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Unfortunately I do not remember enough to give a quality tournament report. But I can give some highlights:

Round 1 I played against RW painter, my opponent was very friendly and turned out to be a friend of a friend. He was new to the deck which slowed the game down and we ended up drawing, game 2 took a long time where I didn't scoop bc all I needed was to top deck my forest for pernicious deed but I killed all his guys with innocent blood and smallpox so he could win fast either. (0-0-1)

Round 2 was against grixis counter-top (Jared Boetcher's invitational list) game 1 and 3 I won by wasting all his duals and smallpoxing his 3 basics. I lost game 2 to pithing needle on lily and deed, ensnaring bridge, and jace. (1-0-1)

Round 3 was a weird one, my opponent was an awesome guy playing elves, like round 1 he was also new to the deck. the first 2 games took a long time with me finding tabernacle early in both but him able to grind out the first and me the second. we didn't even have time to shuffle up for game 3. He was a good guy and I didn't feel like getting more draws (I went 3-0-3 to start SCG Providence a few weeks before) so I conceded, he thanks me, filled out the slip, I scribbled my name, and he handed to a judge. (He ended up filling it out that I won which I didn't find out about til 3 rounds later)(I thought 1-1-1, actually 2-0-1)

Round 4 involved a quick game 1 against miracles where he had no hand, one land, and a top at the end of turn 3 bc of inquisition, cabal therapy and Mishra factory to flash back therapy. I won with a quick bloodghast beatdown. Game 2 we had a similar start but with him on the play he was better off but was still land light (he kept bc of a enlighten tutor for RiP but I had abrupt decay) he still had top and looked at the top 3 in his upkeep, he picked up the first 3 and brought his hands together like he was brainstorming, I had my head down looking at my graveyard. He called himself out and we consulted a judge, unfortunately the rules do not allow the judges any room for leniency even though he did everything right, called a judge, did the honest thing, they where still forced to issue a game loss. I still felt like I was in a very good position and up a game but I never want to win like that.(I thought 2-1-1, actually 3-0-1)



Round 5 was another miracles match where small pox and wasteland ate away at my opponents lands and he scooped both games after counting the lands in his graveyard and realizing he didn't have enough left in his deck to win.(I thought 3-1-1, actually 4-0-1)


Round 6 was a more typical elves match where innocent blood, smallpox, lily, cabal pit, and tabernacle take over. 2 quick games. After this round I ran into my opponent round 3 and told him I went on a run with 3 straight wins and he informed me he had filled out the slip wrong (and also lost 3 straight). At this point I got really excited bc I went from being in a good position to cash to being in a great position to top 8. (5-0-1 which I now know)

Round 7 my opponent was playing Lands. His deck was very pimped out Beta duals and foil everything else with some Japanese and Russian foils mixed in. Game 1 he double crop rotationed very early for dark depths thespian stage, game 2 I wasteland lock him very early and win with bloodghast while he has no green mana sources. Game 3 was a great match, he led with wasteland, I played a fetch, he played exploration on turn 2 which I find to be the hardest card to beat in the match-up (their mana base is more fragile, as long as we can play the same number of lands as them we can wasteland them out). Luckily I had the abrupt decay on my turn so he only got one extra land drop. I found loam, wasteland and bloodghasts, while he crop rotationed for dark depths and found a loam and wasteland of his own. I wasteland and extirpate the dark depths. It was looking good for me as we traded land drops but I had basics and he didn't while I attacked with bloodghasts. Then he surgicals my loams and finds a maze of ith for one of my bloodghasts but the other is chipping away. It is looking good for him till I draw for the turn. . . the third bloodghast! He is at 8 life when I draw a wasteland for the turn and waste the maze, he has the option to copy maze of ith or grove of the burnwillows with thespian stage before I swing for 6 putting him to 2, he choses grove knowing he needs green mana. He needs to be able to dredge loam, hit punishing fire, cast loam and play maze, and punishing fire the other two bloodghast fortunately he was one mana short after flipping punishing fire for his dredge. (6-0-1)

Round 8 was UWR delver, if I could play this match-up all day I would. I am probably something like 10-0 in competitive matches against UWR since it became popular at GP DC. Between hand hate, smallpox, wasteland lock since then run little or no basics, and cabal therapy for batterskull this should be close to a bye. (7-0-1)

Round 9 (off camera feature match) My opponent was playing miracles in his first ever competitive legacy event. I had two great starts with hand hate into liliana of the veil and was able to keep him off jace. He did play a jace in game 1 but it only lasted a turn thanks to bloodghast and factory.

Round 10 ID (8-0-2)

Top 8 was on video, a nearly unwinnable match-up. I have looked into syphon life but haven't been able to fit it in. I have run Nethervoid but I don't really like it in this match-up it obviously comes in but I don't like counting on a 4 mana spell against a deck that should win on turn 3 or 4.



rlesko: Dredgeing vs drawing is one of the hardest things I have had to learn, it is half odds and half gut. I tend to dredge a couple time early to find a threat (factory or bloodghast) then I like to draw to have answers to their potential topdecks. This is also match dependent bc sometimes wasteland locks win the game. It is also nice when you hit a barren moor bc you can dredge and draw every turn.

sarahiscute: I like the additional green sources to help support crop rotation but Dryad Arbor is so bad with smallpox the I don't think I could play it. As I understand the ruling on smallpox is that bc there is a comma between each thing they happen in order so you are basically sacrificing 2 lands dryad arbor as a creature then a land. The order is also sometimes relevant bc a dredge player can discard a Bridge from Below then sacrifice a creature to get a zombie.

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Originally Posted by buckinbroncos69

Think I am going to trim a Massacre and Perish to make room for a Night of Soul's Betrayal and an Engineered Plague. Comments and critiques are appreciated.

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I look forward to the day that metas have to stop running 1 toughness dorks due to all the Pox players rofl-stomping them with this configuration... :cool:

Is there a possibility for the Dark Depths combo in Loam Pox?

Also, how should I start buying cards? I have many of the mono-black cards (e.g. Hymn, Smallpox, Innocent Blood)

Decklist I want to buy (wahh for thousands of dollars)

//Creature (4)
4 Bloodghast

//Enchantment (2)
2 Pernicious Deed

//Instant (6)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Entomb

//Planeswalker (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil

//Sorcery (18)
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Life from the Loam
4 Smallpox

//Land (27)
3 Barren Moor
4 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Cabal Pit
2 Forest
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland


Lastly, are one or two Explorations okay? Just so you can play 2-3 Wastelands after a Loam.

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Originally Posted by PhyrexianPossum

Is there a possibility for the Dark Depths combo in Loam Pox?

Also, how should I start buying cards? I have many of the mono-black cards (e.g. Hymn, Smallpox, Innocent Blood)

Decklist I want to buy (wahh for thousands of dollars)

//Creature (4)
4 Bloodghast

//Enchantment (2)
2 Pernicious Deed

//Instant (6)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Entomb

//Planeswalker (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil

//Sorcery (18)
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Life from the Loam
4 Smallpox

//Land (27)
3 Barren Moor
4 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Cabal Pit
2 Forest
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland


Lastly, are one or two Explorations okay? Just so you can play 2-3 Wastelands after a Loam.

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Its hard to say what order you should buy cards in because you can build rack pox, land destruction pox (both mono black), or BG pox. If I were investing in Legacy I'd be sure to pick up Wastelands first since its the most useful card outside of a pox shell, followed by Liliana. from there, save for something like Bayou, everything should be pretty affordable. If you love playing Pox after building it, I would invest in some old Legends cards :laugh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhyrexianPossum

Is there a possibility for the Dark Depths combo in Loam Pox? (...)

Lastly, are one or two Explorations okay? Just so you can play 2-3 Wastelands after a Loam.

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- First, do some proxy-ing or borrow some cards of friends, it will give you an idea of what you really want.
- Also, play four Lily's.
- Playing Entomb means less LftL.
- I would also play something like Crop Rotation if I were you: entomb can net your combo as well, but I would rather not be too gy-depended and the drawback isn't that bad with LftL.

Exploration is a really cool card, I'm currently trying to make it work in a Dark Depths combo deck. I'm also trying to fit it in Loam Pox, but I don't know yet: I haven't figured it out how. One thing: in my opinion you don't want to play it while maindecking Deed...

Just my two cents

went to a 49-man tourney last sunday with this list:

4 inquisition of kozilek
4 hymn to tourach
4 sinkhole
4 smallpox
1 pox
4 liliana of the veil

3 cursed scroll
1 nether spirit

2 night of soul's betrayal
4 innocent blood

4 dark ritual
4 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 mishra's factory
4 wasteland
13 swamps


SIDEBOARD:
2 spinning darkness
4 engineered plague
2 duress
1 surgical extraction
2 extirpate
1 nether void
1 ratchet bomb
2 pithing needle

* i apologize for the not-so-detailed report, i wasn't taking notes during the tourney and i'm writing from memory..

ROUND 1: BUG
game 1- i drew 2 innocent bloods, a cursed scroll, a lili and 3 swamps..he won the die roll and goes first and opens with a delver, on my turn i IOK'ed him, he revealed 2 goyfs, a ponder, a FoW and a fetch; i made him discard one of the goyfs..he hymned me on his turn making me discard the scroll and a blood..we exchanged discard spells until he beat me down with a counterspell protected tombstalker..
game 2- i boarded out the rituals and the sinkholes for 4 engineered plagues(they actually felt weak against bug), 2 extirpates, a ratchet bomb and duress..but almost the exact same thing happened, i traded removal and discard spells with him but in the end he succeeded in beating me down with a goyf this time....i think their threat-density is just overwhelming..i've always had problems with BUG..(lost)
0-1

ROUND 2: bye
1-1

ROUND 3: Maverick
game 1- i mulled down to 5 with 1 swamp, its not the best hand but i don't want to mull down to less than 5, my first 2 opening draws were unkeepable because they were "landless"..this made thalia much more effective on me..he then proceeded and beat me down with KoTR, etc..i know that maverick is a favorable match up but sometimes, luck is just not on our side, i forced myself not to entertain any negative thoughts and just keep on playing, i know that my deck is supposed to be good against this archtype..
game 2: i boarded out 4 sinkholes(i wonder if boarding out the hymns would've been a better idea), 1 pox, i dark ritual..i sided in 4 engineered plagues and 2 spinning darkness..i went first with a dark ritual into engineered plague than i pass..on my second turn, i ritualed into a NoSB..he conceeded..
game is 3: this was a long drawn out game..we started out normally, in the end i had 3 engineered plagues and a night of soul's betrayal in play..he PTE'd my lone nether spirit and has pithing needle on my cursed scroll and factory..we reached a state where we both ran out of resources..this was a friendly dude i played against and we both ended up laughing..game ended in a draw..i really missed tombstalker in this matchup..(draw)

ROUND 4: MUD
game 1: i won the die roll and opened with a liliana, from there she just started ticking up and ultimated twice, while factory beats..
game 2: he started his turn with a chalice of the void set at 1, that would've hurt, luckily my hand was full of 2 and 3 cmc cards..again liliana carried me all the way to victory, with the help of factories and scrolls of course..i just realized how difficult it is for them to handle an early liliana..
this has got to be the oddest match of the day for me..MUD is normally a difficult match up for me but my games with mud today seemed really one-sided, in my favor..(won)



ROUND 5: RDW
these games reminds me so much of edelstein's game against that burn kid where he can easily control the game and put it on on top deck mode but didn't have the tools to lock the opponent out or end it early..i had him down to 5 in both games but failed to kill him quickly enough before he recovers..again, i missed tombstalker in this match..(lost)


ROUND 6: Dredge
game 1: he went first and it quickly turned scary..dredge can be very degenerate sometimes..
game 2: i went first and duressed him, discarding bridge from below..on his turn, i surgicalled the bridge..that only delayed the inevitable, soon, ichorid's come breathing down my neck..if i drew a night of soul's betrayal or an engineered plague, it wouldve been great..but i did not..(lost)


thoughts:
i think i need to incorporate a clock in my build again..i really missed tombstalker in many games..i think it will improve my game against burn and give me a good clock on decks that can't deal with him once he hits the field, like BUG..
and maybe a singleton trinisphere in the board next time..
i'm giving it another go next time..

With the release of Waste Not, I built this deck and played it to a 3-1 finish at my local Legacy event this week. Here's my list followed by a brief event report:

Spells: (23)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Thoughtseize
3x Hymn to Tourach
1x Raven's Crime
4x Dark Ritual
4x Smallpox
2x Toxic Deluge
4x Innocent Blood

Artifacts: (5)
4x The Rack
1x Crucible of Worlds

Planeswalkers: (4)
4x Liliana of the Veil

Enchantments: (4)
4x Waste Not

Lands: (24)
4x Wasteland
3x Mishra's Factory
1x Mutavault
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Bojuka Bog
13x Swamp

Sideboard: (15)
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Engineered Plague
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Ensnaring Bridge

Note: My metagame has a lot of combo in it, which impacted some of my deckbuilding choices. The 3x Hymn, lack of Sinkholes, and 3/1 split on Mishra's Factories and Mutavaults were due to card availability, although after playing the deck I'm not sure I want 4 Hymns.

Round 1: Vs Tombstalker Pox
This player has been playing Pox for a while in my metagame, to mixed success. I saw a Sinkhole in his deck while he was shuffling to remind me what he was playing.

Sideboard:
In: 2x Ensnaring Bridge
Out: 2x Toxic Deluge

I woiuld have sideboarded out more removal and perhaps brought in Leylines, but he showed me Tombstalker in game 1 (I knew it was in his deck already without seeing it, but I did see it), so I needed to keep in removal for that.

Game 1: I opened a 7 with only 3 discard spells and no Waste Not, Rack, or Liliana to put a clock on him, and mulliganed (note this was my first game ever with Pox, so it may have been a keep but I was inexperienced). I subsequently mulled to 4 eventually and died in short order.

Game 2: My opponent cast turn 2 Waste Not (the only copy in his 75, as I later found out) and I cast turn 3 Liliana. Then turn 5 Liliana, to avoid giving him a free card by discarding it to my Liliana's +1 into his Waste Not. And then turn 6 Liliana. And turn 7 Liliana. And then my opponent played turn 8 Mishra's Factory. And turn 9 Mishra's Factory. And turn 10 Mutavault. And then I died.

Variance, I learned, is a thing.

0-1

Round 2: Vs. Dredge

This player was playing next to me in round 1, so I knew what he was on as well.

Game 1: On the draw I choose to cast turn 1 Liliana rather than turn 1 Waste Not (with no followup) after he casts turn 1 Faithless Looting, intending on valuing him out with Waste Not on turn 2. I cast Waste Not on turn 2 and the subsequently die to infinite zombies + Flayer of the Hatebound on my opponent's turn 3.

Sideboard:
In: 2x Grafdigger's Cage, 3x Thorn of Amethyst, 2x Surgical Extraction
Out: 2x Toxic Deluge, 4x Innocent Blood, 1x Crucible of Worlds

Game 2: Opponent mulligans to 5 and apparently draws all his Narcomebas while I grind him out with The Rack. I also had Bojuka Bog in my opening hand, which my opponent was none too thrilled to see.

Game 3: I cast turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage. He reads the card and asks me a bunch of rules questions about it, all of which are essentially answered by "Sorry, you don't get to cast spells this game". Opponent didn't board in his anti-hate and loses by intentionally decking himself.

1-1

Round 3: Vs. Monogreen Turbofog

This matchup was actually in a pair-down; I was 1-1, opponent was 0-2. Opponent's plan was to play Constant Mists (optimally, but also other Fog effects) until it decked you with Otherworldly Atlas, Howling Mine, and Rites of Flourishing.

Game 1: I cast turn 2 Waste Not, followed by turn 4 Waste Not and turn 5 Waste Not. It's at this point that I notice that the 3rd ability on Waste Not is not a "may". Oops. Luckily my game plan and my opponent's game plan don't really interact at all, except that his Howling Mines make him draw cards to get out of Rack range, so I just put the brakes on the discard plan until I drop Liliana and ult her to wipe his Otherworldly Atlases, which were preventing The Rack from hitting him, and then The Rack burned him out in short order thereafter.

Sideboard:
In: 3x Thorn of Amethyst, 2x Surgical Extraction
Out: 2x Toxic Deluge, 3x Innocent Blood

I left in 1 Innocent Blood in case my opponent had a transformative sideboard. The Thorns were to make his Constant Mists cost more so he couldn't play them as much (I do have manlands, after all), and the Surgicals were to remove them if I could get them (or Otherworldly Atlas) into his bin.

Game 2: I keep a no-land 7 with a Dark Ritual and a Liliana. I hit my first land on turn 2 while my opponent spends his first couple turns durdling and playing a Howling Mine, and I promptly cast Liliana. I pitch my second Waste Not to Liliana to avoid a similar situation as game 1, and then game 2 proceeds much like Game 1, except without the awkwardness of almost decking myself. I cast a Thorn eventually but we both have infinite lands out so it does nothing, but was still better than the cards I brought out which were literal bricks.

2-1

Round 3: Vs. Tinfins

Opponent was borrowing the deck from someone else, and had never played it before today.

Game 1: I cast turn 1 Thoughtseize -> turn 2 Waste Not + Hymn. He gets Griselbrand into his bin, and I figure I probably have 2 more turns (based on his hand, which I knew due to discard spells) to stop him from going off and play towards a 2-turn clock. Then he untaps and kills me.

Sideboard:
In: Everything but Leylines and Plagues
Out: 2x Toxic Deluge, 4x Innocent Blood, 1x Crucible of Worlds, 1x Thoughtseize, 1x The Rack

Game 2: I cast turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage and notify my opponent that he is now on the Hardcast Griselbrand plan. Which he manages to do, and I answer with a Liliana -2 (from 7). Then he casts another Griselbrand into another Liliana -2 (from 7 again). Eventually he stops drawing Griselbrands and I tick Liliana to 7 again, and when I go to ult my opponent scoops.

Game 3: I cast turn 1 Ensnaring Bridge (off a Dark Ritual), followed by turn 2 Grafdigger's Cage and turn 3 Liliana, holding up Surgical Extraction. We both durdle for a while, but my opponent couldn't realistically win from there.

3-1

Overall, the deck seems quite powerful and I like it a lot. I managed to get Waste Not into play in probably 4 or 5 of my games, and I think it was very good each time, except in game 1 against Turbofog which was player error. I only made 1 or 2 zombies over the course of the day, so, at least in my metagame Waste Not is not a realistic win condition, but as a way to smooth your draws by drawing you into land to cast spells and spells to keep pressure it was very good. I managed to live both dreams of Waste Not -> Thoughtseize and Waste Not -> Hymn, and in both cases I managed to cantrip but didn't do anything broken.

The Rack was very good for me as well. I thought it was just a Modern thing, but it was quite good in Legacy as well. I liked that it wasn't a creature and thus could attack through Ensnaring Bridge and Fog, and multiples of them ends the game in very short order.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ertai87

With the release of Waste Not, I built this deck and played it to a 3-1 finish at my local Legacy event this week. Here's my list followed by a brief event report:

Spells: (23)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Thoughtseize
3x Hymn to Tourach
1x Raven's Crime
4x Dark Ritual
4x Smallpox
2x Toxic Deluge
4x Innocent Blood

Artifacts: (5)
4x The Rack
1x Crucible of Worlds

Planeswalkers: (4)
4x Liliana of the Veil

Enchantments: (4)
4x Waste Not

Lands: (24)
4x Wasteland
3x Mishra's Factory
1x Mutavault
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Bojuka Bog
13x Swamp

Sideboard: (15)
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Engineered Plague
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Ensnaring Bridge

Note: My metagame has a lot of combo in it, which impacted some of my deckbuilding choices. The 3x Hymn, lack of Sinkholes, and 3/1 split on Mishra's Factories and Mutavaults were due to card availability, although after playing the deck I'm not sure I want 4 Hymns.

Round 1: Vs Tombstalker Pox
This player has been playing Pox for a while in my metagame, to mixed success. I saw a Sinkhole in his deck while he was shuffling to remind me what he was playing.

Sideboard:
In: 2x Ensnaring Bridge
Out: 2x Toxic Deluge

I woiuld have sideboarded out more removal and perhaps brought in Leylines, but he showed me Tombstalker in game 1 (I knew it was in his deck already without seeing it, but I did see it), so I needed to keep in removal for that.

Game 1: I opened a 7 with only 3 discard spells and no Waste Not, Rack, or Liliana to put a clock on him, and mulliganed (note this was my first game ever with Pox, so it may have been a keep but I was inexperienced). I subsequently mulled to 4 eventually and died in short order.

Game 2: My opponent cast turn 2 Waste Not (the only copy in his 75, as I later found out) and I cast turn 3 Liliana. Then turn 5 Liliana, to avoid giving him a free card by discarding it to my Liliana's +1 into his Waste Not. And then turn 6 Liliana. And turn 7 Liliana. And then my opponent played turn 8 Mishra's Factory. And turn 9 Mishra's Factory. And turn 10 Mutavault. And then I died.

Variance, I learned, is a thing.

0-1

Round 2: Vs. Dredge

This player was playing next to me in round 1, so I knew what he was on as well.

Game 1: On the draw I choose to cast turn 1 Liliana rather than turn 1 Waste Not (with no followup) after he casts turn 1 Faithless Looting, intending on valuing him out with Waste Not on turn 2. I cast Waste Not on turn 2 and the subsequently die to infinite zombies + Flayer of the Hatebound on my opponent's turn 3.

Sideboard:
In: 2x Grafdigger's Cage, 3x Thorn of Amethyst, 2x Surgical Extraction
Out: 2x Toxic Deluge, 4x Innocent Blood, 1x Crucible of Worlds

Game 2: Opponent mulligans to 5 and apparently draws all his Narcomebas while I grind him out with The Rack. I also had Bojuka Bog in my opening hand, which my opponent was none too thrilled to see.

Game 3: I cast turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage. He reads the card and asks me a bunch of rules questions about it, all of which are essentially answered by "Sorry, you don't get to cast spells this game". Opponent didn't board in his anti-hate and loses by intentionally decking himself.

1-1

Round 3: Vs. Monogreen Turbofog

This matchup was actually in a pair-down; I was 1-1, opponent was 0-2. Opponent's plan was to play Constant Mists (optimally, but also other Fog effects) until it decked you with Otherworldly Atlas, Howling Mine, and Rites of Flourishing.

Game 1: I cast turn 2 Waste Not, followed by turn 4 Waste Not and turn 5 Waste Not. It's at this point that I notice that the 3rd ability on Waste Not is not a "may". Oops. Luckily my game plan and my opponent's game plan don't really interact at all, except that his Howling Mines make him draw cards to get out of Rack range, so I just put the brakes on the discard plan until I drop Liliana and ult her to wipe his Otherworldly Atlases, which were preventing The Rack from hitting him, and then The Rack burned him out in short order thereafter.

Sideboard:
In: 3x Thorn of Amethyst, 2x Surgical Extraction
Out: 2x Toxic Deluge, 3x Innocent Blood

I left in 1 Innocent Blood in case my opponent had a transformative sideboard. The Thorns were to make his Constant Mists cost more so he couldn't play them as much (I do have manlands, after all), and the Surgicals were to remove them if I could get them (or Otherworldly Atlas) into his bin.

Game 2: I keep a no-land 7 with a Dark Ritual and a Liliana. I hit my first land on turn 2 while my opponent spends his first couple turns durdling and playing a Howling Mine, and I promptly cast Liliana. I pitch my second Waste Not to Liliana to avoid a similar situation as game 1, and then game 2 proceeds much like Game 1, except without the awkwardness of almost decking myself. I cast a Thorn eventually but we both have infinite lands out so it does nothing, but was still better than the cards I brought out which were literal bricks.

2-1

Round 3: Vs. Tinfins

Opponent was borrowing the deck from someone else, and had never played it before today.

Game 1: I cast turn 1 Thoughtseize -> turn 2 Waste Not + Hymn. He gets Griselbrand into his bin, and I figure I probably have 2 more turns (based on his hand, which I knew due to discard spells) to stop him from going off and play towards a 2-turn clock. Then he untaps and kills me.

Sideboard:
In: Everything but Leylines and Plagues
Out: 2x Toxic Deluge, 4x Innocent Blood, 1x Crucible of Worlds, 1x Thoughtseize, 1x The Rack

Game 2: I cast turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage and notify my opponent that he is now on the Hardcast Griselbrand plan. Which he manages to do, and I answer with a Liliana -2 (from 7). Then he casts another Griselbrand into another Liliana -2 (from 7 again). Eventually he stops drawing Griselbrands and I tick Liliana to 7 again, and when I go to ult my opponent scoops.

Game 3: I cast turn 1 Ensnaring Bridge (off a Dark Ritual), followed by turn 2 Grafdigger's Cage and turn 3 Liliana, holding up Surgical Extraction. We both durdle for a while, but my opponent couldn't realistically win from there.

3-1

Overall, the deck seems quite powerful and I like it a lot. I managed to get Waste Not into play in probably 4 or 5 of my games, and I think it was very good each time, except in game 1 against Turbofog which was player error. I only made 1 or 2 zombies over the course of the day, so, at least in my metagame Waste Not is not a realistic win condition, but as a way to smooth your draws by drawing you into land to cast spells and spells to keep pressure it was very good. I managed to live both dreams of Waste Not -> Thoughtseize and Waste Not -> Hymn, and in both cases I managed to cantrip but didn't do anything broken.

The Rack was very good for me as well. I thought it was just a Modern thing, but it was quite good in Legacy as well. I liked that it wasn't a creature and thus could attack through Ensnaring Bridge and Fog, and multiples of them ends the game in very short order.

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congrats man, its always great to see pox finish good!
i'm a bit confused with the thorn of amethysts in the SB though..

edit: after looking at the report again..i'm surprised your turbo fog opponent was running other world atlas instead of font of mythos..

Thorns are amazing vs fast combo like PiF.

Honestly, people should be really looking hard at Pox-like strategies. I know it doesn't appeal to all players, but when you've got Top 8s week in and week out where it's Delver, Stoneforge and True-Name Nemesis, decks like Pox should roll.

I think it's a great deck and incredibly well-positioned for the current metagame.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Michael Keller

Honestly, people should be really looking hard at Pox-like strategies. I know it doesn't appeal to all players, but when you've got Top 8s week in and week out where it's Delver, Stoneforge and True-Name Nemesis, decks like Pox should roll.

I think it's a great deck and incredibly well-positioned for the current metagame.

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ditto to that..

what build would you run in a meta with a lot of "fair" decks? would you go for a green splash(loampox) or a white splash(holy pox)..or would you go monoblack?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

Thorns are amazing vs fast combo like PiF.

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for a 2 cmc card to combat combo, wouldn't sphere of resistance be better for that purpose because it also affects creatures and uhm, he's not running any creatures?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag

for a 2 cmc card to combat combo, wouldn't sphere of resistance be better for that purpose because it also affects creatures and uhm, he's not running any creatures?

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One of my older deny builds I didn't run Hymn and used Sphere of Resistance in its place. Try to think of it as a symmetrical sinkhole. :cool: right out of the gate, combo decks get stuffed and since you're going to have 24+ permanent mana sources, it may work. I couldn't get it to work cause I love Hymn and my meta is slower. In a fast low cmc meta, Sphere is devastating.