[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

Haven't had too much time to play lately, but made it out to a 30ish person local with a build similar to Slosh's. No Ad Naus main, 2 PiF, 1 Empty, 1 Grapeshot, 1 Tendrils, 6 discard, no Preordain, Tops, 2 Grim Tutor.

I did play some very grindy games, so the name Grinding Station is certainly fitting. R1 I lost to UG Infect who ripped insanely well - drawing a second Force for my attempt to off, then a Daze (out of Daze and Pierce as outs) for my re-attempt the next turn is an example. R2 played against Esperblade, had some very interesting games that all went long. Lost to not playing my LED t1 and then stumbling while he drew interaction. R3 lost to Maverick 0-2 who had several opportunities to GSZ for Teeg g1, declined, and still killed me. Dropped at a miserable 0-3. I didn't play particularly well, but did get a good feel for the list.

Overall I'd say I didn't like the second Grim Tutor and I boarded out the second Past in Flames pretty often to be more resilient to graveyard hate. There were several times when I drew a Grim Tutor or a redundant business spell and wished it were a Preordain or Top. Grapeshot was very good. It was awkward only once g2 against infect where he had an Inkmoth and I had to dump it for no value to get hellbent. Otherwise excellent. G1 against Esperblade I had a very weak hand, but I knew his hand didn't have much pressure. So I hid Grapeshot on top with a Brainstorm, he Snapcastered Thoughtseize, and I was able to Probe into Grapeshot to kill his Strix and Snapcaster, leaving him with nothing. That gave me enough time to grind through double Force, Spell Pierce, and double Thoughtseize, ending with flashing back Past in Flames and Grapeshot for 11. I didn't have enough mana to tutor for Tendrils, so Grapeshot was good - bought like 6 turns and killed him. Against Maverick I nuked his board of Mom, Deathrite, Thalia, and Dryad Arbor that was lethal in 2 turns, but had to blow my hand to do it. He killed me before I drew Past in Flames.

I'd be interested to see your 75. I'm also testing Slosh's list, I have 2 PiF, 2 Tendrils, 1 Top/Grim, 6 discard, no preordain, no grapeshot. i've been enjoying it a lot, but i've been tinkering with trying to fit a 2nd top and maybe some sort of removal ability. like bolt or grapeshot. how do you like to board with your list? i find it pretty hard beyond the occasional removal of 2nd Tendrils/PiF/EtW or 4th petal/cabal/ponder

Which is the best number of discard spells in the deck? 6 or 7? which is the best combination? I want your opinion!

There obviously is no world in which 6 is clearly correct and 7 clearly incorrect or vice versa.

I've always felt better with 7. And my combination is 4/3 Therapy/Duress. As long as I'm running 4 probes I prefer it this way.

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

There obviously is no world in which 6 is clearly correct and 7 clearly incorrect or vice versa.

I've always felt better with 7. And my combination is 4/3 Therapy/Duress. As long as I'm running 4 probes I prefer it this way.

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+1
Cabal Therapy is too much of a beast to miss even a single copy of it.

WHy do you prefer cabal therapy over duress? sometimes it's great, but i've lost some matches for having blind therapies instead of duress...

therapy can hit multiple cards, it can hit creatures, it can be flashed back off of EtW tokens/Confidants etc. while it can miss, the general idea is that if you did miss, it's because they don't have whatever it is you were worried over. I feel Cabal Therapy suffers in a meta full of diverse threats/disruption, though. For example, RUG Delver and Merfolk that might pack cards like Spell Snare or Envelop that are hard to predict (Adamant Negation might be relevant on the horizon too). I also feel Duress is debatably better against Miracles because they could keep their most threatening cards protected by Brainstorm/Top and Duress at least let's you strip them of secondary threatening cards that you have to work through anyway.

I'm not liking Cabal Therapy as much recently. The advantages of the card are quite evident, and it has great synergy with Probe, but sometimes "naming the card that wrecks you" doesn't get there. Sometimes, you're forced to go off with only a Therapy as protection, and I've gotten wrecked quite a few times when I cast Force of Will when they are holding Flusterstorm or name Force of Will when they have Brainstorm and manage to Brainstorm into Force on my attempt to go off.

I miss the old builds that managed to run both Duress and Thoughtseize. Gitaxian Probe is probably powerful enough as a new inclusion to make the lifeloss from Thoughtseize prohibitively painful, but I noticed my ability to beat hatebears has been significantly worse since switching to the post-NPH version.

i don't usually read ANT opinions, I am TES player! but looking at this discussion for curiosity and with the aim to throw some light...
I for example in TES still don't understand why since the out of gitaxian we imediatly switched to 4 c.t. and EtW main. In TNT and as Timo said was brylliant, it's a card that challenges oneself and sure has no Price its reward, you can beat a hand with multiple FoW and Fluster with multiple Therapy, not with multiple duress... I've seen several blow ups 2 or even 3 Of with Therapys (Canonists, Hymns Delvers, etc).... much of us think that apart of AN and PiF, C.T. is the unique other card that provide us card avantage even in a Storm Deck!. and so many arguments I could say...

I believe Therapy is one of the bests cards in legacy.

Just a Storm Player opinion.

EDIT I was reading a few and really laughed at reading how you discuss the Burn archetype Ha ha ha! Joke.

I've seen some people playing with a single burning wish in their maindeck (and some others with 2), what do you think about it? Do you think it is a good idea as a fifth tutor?

In a configuration with 1 BW I'd run this sideboard:

3 Xantid Swarm
2 Chain of vapor
2 Dread of night
3 Abrupt decay
2 Massacre
1 Empty the warrens
1 Past in flames
1 Tendrils of agony

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Originally Posted by lordofthepit

I'm not liking Cabal Therapy as much recently. The advantages of the card are quite evident, and it has great synergy with Probe, but sometimes "naming the card that wrecks you" doesn't get there. Sometimes, you're forced to go off with only a Therapy as protection, and I've gotten wrecked quite a few times when I cast Force of Will when they are holding Flusterstorm or name Force of Will when they have Brainstorm and manage to Brainstorm into Force on my attempt to go off.

I miss the old builds that managed to run both Duress and Thoughtseize. Gitaxian Probe is probably powerful enough as a new inclusion to make the lifeloss from Thoughtseize prohibitively painful, but I noticed my ability to beat hatebears has been significantly worse since switching to the post-NPH version.

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I just want to note that it's not completely random when you cast a blind Therapy. Any deck playing Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce is also playing Force of Will. If you notice them leaving an island untapped instead of playing a cantrip or a delver, you should be naming Flusterstorm. If they're tapping out to play Tarmogoyf or Jace, be ready to name Force of Will in addition to playing around a Daze. If they've been leaving islands untapped but you're not sure, weigh the amount of Flusterstorms you think they board in vs. the odds they have Force AND a blue card.

I probably call Flusterstorm 15% of the time, but I'm almost always right when I do.

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Originally Posted by saur

I just want to note that it's not completely random when you cast a blind Therapy. Any deck playing Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce is also playing Force of Will. If you notice them leaving an island untapped instead of playing a cantrip or a delver, you should be naming Flusterstorm. If they're tapping out to play Tarmogoyf or Jace, be ready to name Force of Will in addition to playing around a Daze. If they've been leaving islands untapped but you're not sure, weigh the amount of Flusterstorms you think they board in vs. the odds they have Force AND a blue card.

I probably call Flusterstorm 15% of the time, but I'm almost always right when I do.

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tl;dr: Play better.

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Originally Posted by wonderPreaux

I'd be interested to see your 75. I'm also testing Slosh's list, I have 2 PiF, 2 Tendrils, 1 Top/Grim, 6 discard, no preordain, no grapeshot. i've been enjoying it a lot, but i've been tinkering with trying to fit a 2nd top and maybe some sort of removal ability. like bolt or grapeshot. how do you like to board with your list? i find it pretty hard beyond the occasional removal of 2nd Tendrils/PiF/EtW or 4th petal/cabal/ponder

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Hey sorry about not replying sooner. Here was the 75 I played, but I'm not advocating it.

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe

3 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress

4 Infernal Tutor
2 Grim Tutor
2 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual

4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp

// Sideboard
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Flusterstorm
1 Massacre
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Lightning Bolt
3 Xantid Swarm
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Sensei's Divining Top

After playing with the list, I'm not totally sold on the Grinding Station parts of the deck. I really did like drawing exactly one Past in Flames (most times), but getting flooded on 4-drops is real. I think I might just cut the 2nd Grim Tutor and a PiF for a Preordain and a Top (or another Preordain). The board seems pretty solid so far.

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Originally Posted by Surfinbird

I've seen some people playing with a single burning wish in their maindeck (and some others with 2), what do you think about it? Do you think it is a good idea as a fifth tutor?

In a configuration with 1 BW I'd run this sideboard:

3 Xantid Swarm
2 Chain of vapor
2 Dread of night
3 Abrupt decay
2 Massacre
1 Empty the warrens
1 Past in flames
1 Tendrils of agony

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I don't like it although I played with 3 Burning Wish some time ago. But in my opinion, Burning Wish does not provide another line of attack, but rather makes some draws cluncy in contrast to Preordain for example. Also, the pre-combo Wish targeting Past in Flames or a discard spell (which is probably the most frequent target; Thoughtseize) does not feel good at all because you literally tell your opponent that you want to combo off next turn with a certain route, thus he knows which cards are missing in your hand right now. You have to waste some sideboard slots eventually in order to support the Wish. (Tendrils/PiF/EtW/discard) something like that would be a BW configuration (Massacre is already a SB card). I know that it may work for some people and it certainly depends on the meta game. If you are searching for a 5th tutor just play SDT or invest in Grim Tutor.

Someone tested and got results of Talrand and divert vs bug delver?

Some conclusions?

I haven't tested Talrand:( but i've been thinking about running 3 meekstone in the sideboard to beat canadian and bug delver... what do you think?

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Originally Posted by Surfinbird

I haven't tested Talrand:( but i've been thinking about running 3 meekstone in the sideboard to beat canadian and bug delver... what do you think?

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You don't need additional cards against Canadian.
Deathrite Shaman still untaps under Meekstone and stuff like Liliana is not influenced at all. 100% wasted slots.

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Originally Posted by CabalTherapy

You don't need additional cards against Canadian.

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About that, I sometimes feel that need some extra diacard or maybe xantids to deal with their amount of counters

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Originally Posted by Surfinbird

About that, I sometimes feel that need some extra diacard or maybe xantids to deal with their amount of counters

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7 discard spells should be enough. Flusterstorm is a decent card here, whereas Swarm may be hit by a Lightning Bolt but of course also can provide enough protection for the kill.
Empty the Warrens is a solid option here, too.
With the phrase "additional cards" I meant that you don't have to have special cards against the Canadian MU in the SB.

So, about one month ago I set out to start recording every match I played with ANT on mtgo. Even though these records are mostly interesting for myself, I decided to share my findings with you guys.

The time frame for this data collecting was one month. During that time I recorded the deck my opponent was playing and whether I lost or won. Note that these are matches, not games. I only played competitative matches, meaning either in 2-mans for tickets or in dailies.

I recorded 145 matches during this month.

Also note that you must accept some leeway when it comes to my categorizing of matchups. Esperblade decks, for instance, are called Esperblade regardless of whether they were deathblade variants or 'normal' esperblade variants.

Also note, that I am aware of the somewhat limiting aspect of 145 matches. Not too much - if anything at all - should be concluded merely on the basis of these data. Still, I thought it would at least give some indication of a) what the meta looks like for legacy on mtgo and b) roughly how ANT is situated against the different decks.

A final note on the deck I played: I frequently tried out new cards in the sideboard. Also the maindeck constellation changed from time to time. Sometimes running Ad Nauseam in the main, other times in the sideboard, etc. But by and large these were smaller changes.

So, first things first. Out of the 145 matches I managed to win 94 and lose 51, giving me a win percentage of 65 rounded up (64.82).

The four decks I faced the most were: Burn, 15 (11 wins, 4 losses), Miracles, 13 (5 wins, 8 losses), Esperblade, 11 (7 wins, 4 losses) and Elves, 10 (9 wins, 1 loss).

As you can see, I predicatbly fared well against Elves and Burn but did relatively poorly against Miracles... a matchup where I was hoping to at least be closer to 50/50 than what I ended up being. Esperblade at 7/4 feels about right.

You may be noticing that we are missing the delver decks. I decided to split them up into 4 sub Groups (BUG, RUG, UWR and BURG). When combined I faced one of these variants a whopping 18 times averaging a win percentage of roughly 55 % (10 wins 8 losses) which also feels about where I'd expect to be.

One curiosity was how well I managed to do in the mirror winning all 9 matches. I think this speaks more to how relatively unrealiable this type of data is so we probably shouldn't read too much into it :smile:

http://i.imgur.com/UN1xNGd.png


I can't be bothered but it would probably make sense to clean the data of the matchups I only faced once or twice.

Anyway, hope someone finds it interesting enough to look at :smile:

wow, thank you Martin for your conclusion and ton of testings, i really appreciate it !

I believe in your storm skills (you finished well at BoM9)

so these results are perfect for analyzing all the matchups we can face in future tournaments.

what i would like to pick up from the diagram are miracles bug delver and stoneblade decks.
unfortunately these decks are popular so we need a way to somehow beat them constantly,we should aim a matchup percentage around 55:45,that would be ideal so i'm looking for a way to achieve it.
i'm also going to make a matchup analysis on my own in the next 2-3 weeks with a lot of experiments in the sideboard,hope that we get the perfect list until Ovino/ Danish Legacy Championship or Prague Eternal this Fall.