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A single blue is all you need to effectively cast everything but counterspell. Basic swamp is good under moon effect, b2b, recurring waste. When your black source gets wasted and you are trying to cast EE @ 3 or Vindicate it's a real pain.Quote:
Originally Posted by b4r0n
I play 23 lands total
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
2 Islands
1 Swamp
4 Mishra
1 Dust Bowl
4 Flooded
2 Delta
And I´m having quiet success with it.
@NQN: Are you running any Eternal Dragon's in your build?
No, they were always like "tap two, search land noxXx" and never won me a match. This is the current list I run:
// Lands
1 [R] Scrubland
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
1 [MM] Dust Bowl
2 [OV] Plains
2 [U] Underground Sea
4 [A] Tundra
2 [6E] Island (3)
1 [10E] Swamp (2)
// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 [AP] Vindicate
2 [7E] Counterspell
2 [TE] Diabolic Edict
2 [ON] Smother
2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
I haven't had time to test Path to Exile so far but as a 2of, I could see them replacing those 2 Edicts easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by NQN
Also, glad that you seem to fancy my -WoG +SpotRemoval approach.:wink:
I see you're running -1 Edict, -1 Smother in your build and no Jaces. I'm wondering whether there's no SwarmAggro.dec in your meta or whether you put WoGs in your SB. Cause Goblins etc.. seems really unfavorable with your setup.
I playtested Merfolk with this Deck and wasn't able with a single match. It's why i decided not to play this deck yesterday at the Legacy-walk tournament in Montreal because I was anticipating at least 3 Merfolk players. (There was 4!) Even with Speedstill and 15 MD Removal that affects all of their creature, it's still a hard MU. I can't see how 2 Relic and 2 Top can help this prob.
PM
Exactly what do you mean by "this deck"? The subtle change's in lists can have an enormous impact on how well one list will perform against a certain deck. Regardless of that I don't see how any of the current Landstill builds are losing to Merfolk. I've tested against that deck exstensively and once you are familiar with the cards it runs it should be a favorable match up. Lord of Atlantis require's your attention, you are playing a deck with more removal in it than any other deck winning in Legacy right now, on top of that Spellsnare hits it. Play around Waste and Stifle, keep the Lords and Vial out of play. Be prepared when you play Standstill. They have practically zero card advantage, play the attrition war and you should inevitably win. Thats all game one stuff but the people running Plague get to bring that in and they can't even run Grip in Merfolk. Once you do some testing against the deck I would be surprised to see people losing to Merfolk with Landstill. Now if it's the first or second time you have played against the deck where you have to stop and read every card than I can understand walking into things that may cause you a loss. For instance one of my team members running my list lost to Merfolk in the top 4 of the 44 person event yesterday because he side boarded wrong, well atleast not the way I do when I was setting up my side board strategies. It was also the first time he had ever seen Merfolk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
Feel free to share said sb strategies. Other than, +3 plague -3 ???Quote:
Originally Posted by konsultant
Merfolk IS a pain the bottom for any LS variant, at least that's my experience against Merfolk.dec piloted by skilled players.Quote:
Originally Posted by konsultant
4-6 Wastelands+Ports, 2-3 Mutavaults, Standstills of their own that are usually must counters in the early game, Stifle+Waste+Port making WoGs Dazable up to turn 20+. You make it look too easy by stating just take care of Stifle & Lords - as a matter of fact, all they need to worry about are your 3 copies of WoGs which they have 8 counters for and even IF you get one through it might either be not enough or too late.
The one card that really screws us is Silvergil Adept, though. Truely underrated. Being CA on legs it's one of the reasons Merfolk is a DTB right now, just saying.
I really don't see this card as "the one card that really screws us". As a vanilla 2/1 that cantrips its like a worse version of Eternal Witness. What makes it amazing is when its a cantriping 3/2 Island Walker, or a cantriping 3/2 that taps down our Mishra's Factory clearing the way for other 'Folk.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
The 8 Lords are what make the deck, specifically in a very blue Legacy, Lord of Atlantis.
Just curious if anyone's tested Ethersworn Adjucator in UWb Landstill? It seems that he's a good finisher, board control recurrable via Academy Ruins.
Me neither, so I can´t say anything about Path. What I can say is that I would replace smother with it because I feel uncomfortable with only 3 solutions to mongoose. Since I have a Plague and 1 Tutor in the sideboard, I´m not that afraid of Swarms. I replaced Jace with Top and it definitely was worth it. Top is sooooo amazing that I would never cut it again. The last tournament I played I played 4-0-1 but in games it was 10-0. Top won about 4-5 games on it´s own.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
Actually i did.Quote:
Just curious if anyone's tested Ethersworn Adjucator in UWb Landstill? It seems that he's a good finisher, board control recurrable via Academy Ruins.
But i played a 4c Landstill Version with Moat and Deeds.
Here's the list:
1 Ethersworn Adjudicator
2 Tombstalker
1 Enlightned Tutor
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Moat
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Jace Beleren
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Counterspell
4 Force of WIll
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Vindicate
3 Spell Snare
23 Lands
I liked the Adjudicator being a tutorable Mortify-Serra Angel, although he gave the opponent a target for his removal.
I played in two tournaments this weekend with UWB landstill, Saturday at the GP trial at the Des Moines PTQ and Sunday in Iowa City. I cut Wish and opted to play a list that is basically Geoff's older uwb one with Humility.
23 lands:
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath (instead of 3rd Delta since it fetches basic Plains)
2 Plains
3 Island
1 Scrubland
1 Underground Sea
4 Tundra
2 Dust Bowl
3 Mishra's Factory
37 spells:
2 Eternal Dragon
4 Force of Will
3 Wrath of God
2 Humility
2 Decree of Justice
2 Fact or Fiction
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Counterspell
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Engineered Explosives
Sideboard: 15
2 Hydroblast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Engineered Plague
2 Perish (These were Runed Halo on Sunday)
2 Ajani Goldmane
I made the top four at the GP Trial and lost to tempo thresh 0-2 in the semis. I stabilized game one after four Wastelands and built up a bunch of lands, but he burned me out. Game two I EE'd for 1 turn three, and blew it up right away to play around Grip, he Stifles and I don't Force. I definitely should've because I then proceeded to draw a bunch of lands, two more Forces, and double Counterspell ftl.
At Iowa City I played against Scepter-chant landstill in the finals. Game one I kill a scepter with imprinted Counterspell, he plays a stick with STP. He eventually hits Ruins, EE, and Crucible to lock me out of the game. I hit Ajani plus Decree game two for the win. Game three I kill two scepters and am ahead on cards but I missed my second white source so I can't cast Ajani early. He hits Crucible + Waste and starts attacking my mana. I have STP'd almost all of his manlands, and I'm at 4, but he Chants me, then activates his Conclave, and Factory.
I ended up getting nine packs of conflux from Saturday, and we did a prize split Sunday for 13 packs each, which I traded for $52 in store credit. The entry was only $5, too, so the prize support was awesome.
My thoughts on the build:
*Even with two Halos in the board the combo matchup is iffy.
*I wanted another mana source both days, and another Decree.
*Even with 4 Relic in the board, the dredge match up is awful.
*I will probably switch Vindicate back to Wish, so I have an out game one against graveyard shenanigans such as Ruins+Crucible or Wasteland+Loam game one. Ruins is ridiculous in the mirror, but I had problems drawing too many colorless sources, so I cut it.
*I had a version with Snare but it wasn't missed much either day.
*Dust Bowl will probably turn back into Wasteland, since it's cheaper to use and most of the time I would only hit 1-2 lands with Dust Bowl anyway. I wanted to cast my spells and cycle Decrees for more guys, rather than atttacking their mana.
Right now I'm probably going to play Thresh at the GP since I'm not happy with any of the landstill lists I have. (Not enough mana, not enough Decrees, no outs to grave recursion game 1, if I cut FoF I'm a dog in control matchups, etc.) Thoughts?
As I am looking over the past few pages at sideboard stratagys I am noticing that Relic of Progenitus is the Graveyard card of hate in many different sideboards. Can someone who is playing this card give me the reason this card is better than other common graveyard hate cards?
Tormonds Crypt
Extirpate
We don't run Goyf so we don't need to risk shrinking our goyf with relic. It also shrinks goyf and makes Vore a 0/0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider Bob
Extirpate costs a black and a lot of times you might sit their and go, man I wish I could cast this. Atleast, I know personally I used to play extirpate and there were a number of games where I had one in my hand and didn't draw a way to fetch a black source. At that point, I said f you extirpate.
I know some people run a 2/2 split of crypt and relic to get around needle/chalice from an ichorid player, but I just play relic because I think it's better.
I’m wondering about this myself. Don’t get me wrong, I think Relic is a fine card and the fact that it cycles makes it “less dead” and therefore main deck worthy in certain decks. However, I tend to favor Crypt (and in some cases Extirpate) as a sideboard card because it frees up your mana to play Standstill, counters, etc. Against Loam for instance, I wouldn’t just run Relic out there to get it blown to bits. If you’re playing around Grip, then the 2 mana requirement becomes a liability. Relic’s benefit really is in the landstill control mirror since it replaces itself. I would say it is marginal if not slightly worse than Crypt in the matches for which you really need the grave hate.
Most of the uw Landstill decks play 12-13 board control/Creature control cards. They also play 10 counterspells, 3 Spell Snare, 3 Counterspells and 4 Force of wills. Goyf is a good card but it is far from such a large threat as to warrent a graveyard nuking card. I am more looking at how it is possibly better than Icorid. At 1 mana 1 to activate you give the icorid player 2 turns to combo out. The replacment effect of this card makes this card slightly better.
Extirpate or crypt gives you 1st turn diffusion against Icorid, extirpate helps against other decks that are threats.
Relic of Progenitus - Feels like its a waste of a first turn, later in the game I can see where the replacment effect and the total nukage of the yards can be effective but if you lost the game on turn 1 or 2 the late game is a moot point.
You don´t need an answer on turn 1. Ichorid will usually board out the ftk and therefor you can easily drop relic first turn. Furthermore it shines against loam because it PERMANENTLY shuts off their loam engine and can still draw a card if there´s no need for it anymore.
Well first off i would alway's run 4x Plague if at all possable, secondly I have tested about 500 games or so against Canadian Thresh now with the sole goal being to build the best Mana Base possable and to learn how to play against Mana denial effectivly. That being said if you are not familiar with playing against Mana Denial or if you are running a different Mana Base than I am you could be having different problems. I assure everybody it is entirely possable to beat Merfolk reliably with the list I have posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockout
The SB seems fairly straight forward to me but it's -4 FOW +4 Plague. The deck has zero must counter cards and it plays too many creature's making the card disadvantage of Force the weakest card in the deck. Landstill is a Hybrid of 2 decks, Blue counterspell control and mono White control, against Creature decks the White portion of the deck is strongest so focus on adding more removal. Let them lose to the card disadvantage of Force. The only real threat they have is Vial and you still have EE and Vindicate to deal with it not to mention Plague can negate vials and make up for any card advantage they gained from Standstill. I'm not saying that the deck can't beat Landstill but after doing some testing against the deck I firmly beleive that the match is in Landstill's favor.