[Deck] U/R Delver

I understand the Blood Moon, but main? Aah well, if it works, it works!

I played a 50-something tournament this weekend, and went a horrible 2-4. Three MU's I lost because I ran out of gas. One game I lost because of drawing four lands in a row... Just a lot of bad luck overall. I'm currently toying with two Revelers as creatures #13 and #14, in place of one flex-spot (Fireblast/ Vapor Snag) and one Probe.

I don't know about Daze. Sure, it's free, but my opponents all play around Daze (they are all Legacy-veterans). Spell Pierce comes to mind very often, but holding a U-mana open seems undesirable as well. Any thoughts?

Hello, I played just a small four round tournament yesterday and got 2-2. I beat miracles and sneak and show. I lost to storm and D&T.
This is my list http://deckbox.org/sets/1389963

The D&T match was really lame.
G1, I draw Delver, two bolts, a cantrip, daze and two lands.
Opponent leads with a land, pass.
Me: Draw a cantrip. Play Delver, pass. Opponent StP Delver EOT. I counter with Daze.
Op: Land, Thalia, pass.
Me: No flip, (idk the draw), land (1st because of Daze), pass
Op: Ghost Quarters, Leonin Arbiter, Destroys my only land.
Me: No flip, draw a fetchland and loose.

Now, it is clear that the Daze came at a great tempo loss. I wonder, whether it was bad play even in that moment with the information I had (btw, I knew he plays D&T.)


G2, I had two delvers on board but could not flip them for two rounds, he plays mystic and jitte and I get no smash and just get flooded with lands.

That SCG list is definitely interesting. I was originally really confused at some of his card choices, but once I thought about them a bit they started to make more sense.

This version is more likely to hit 3 mana for a few reasons: playing 3 Daze makes you less likely to pick up your lands, 17 lands instead of 16 and Blood Moon main deck making you more likely to fetch basics, making you more immune to Wasteland.

With that in mind, it seems like he wanted more things to do at three mana instead of relying on one drops to finish the job. TNN and Snap are both basically 3 drops that add a lot of power to this list.

Tbh I don't really like it as much as the "stock" 8 Prowess 4 Delver decks, but it's very interesting.

So I took the list I posted a little back and took it for a spin last weekend and figured it's not really for me. (Cut the 4 Stifles for 2 Preordain, 4th Probe and 4th Reveler. Cut 1 Pierce for Swiftspear)

1 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Curious Homunculus
4 Delver of Secrets

Spells
2 Preordain
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Forked Bolt
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

Lands
1 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island

Sideboard
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Dismember
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
1 Divert
1 Submerge
1 Shattering Spree
1 Volcanic Spray
1 Set Adrift

So I didnt got the results I wanted and ended up 1-4-0. I put some more creatures in the list for pressure but didn't draw any good follow ups even with the 14 cantrips.
To be fair, I drew my singleton Swiftspear almost every game I played and seen only a single Reveler the entire day that either got discarded or countered, not sure what happen to it but It didn't hit the battlefield.
Things I learned:
- Curious Homonculus preformed really well again. Great vs opposing Talia or just hitting for a ton with some Prowless guys/triggers.
- Swiftspear is ok, but not just 1. Boarded it away several times for better creatures.
- Proberly should drop the Wastelands entirely and go for the regulair UR builds but add some Revelers.
- I don't like the straight foreward playstyle of UR as I thought (playing Grixis tempo for the pas couple years this is a bigger switch then I guessed)

So if anyone wondered, both Reveler and Homonculus are strong and fun but this deck just aint for me.

We haven't had a post for a while... how about an opening hand discussion? Assume you are playing a typical UR Burn version with Stormchaser Mage, Price of Progress, maybe a Bedlam Reveler or two.

Opening 7:
On the play, unknown opponent
Delver of Secrets
Monastery Swiftspear
Volcanic Island
Scalding Tarn
Ponder
Daze
Lightning Bolt


1. Which land do you play first, or fetch for first?
2. What's your turn 1 play?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paradigm72

We haven't had a post for a while... how about an opening hand discussion? Assume you are playing a typical UR Burn version with Stormchaser Mage, Price of Progress, maybe a Bedlam Reveler or two.

Opening 7:
On the play, unknown opponent
Delver of Secrets
Monastery Swiftspear
Volcanic Island
Scalding Tarn
Ponder
Daze
Lightning Bolt


1. Which land do you play first, or fetch for first?
2. What's your turn 1 play?

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How is this even a question. Volc. Delver

Back by daze

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

How is this even a question. Volc. Delver

Back by daze

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Interesting, thanks for the input. Does it change if both lands in your opening hand are Scalding Tarns? Do you always fetch the Volcanic first, or do you ever fetch Island to play around Wasteland?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paradigm72

Interesting, thanks for the input. Does it change if both lands in your opening hand are Scalding Tarns? Do you always fetch the Volcanic first, or do you ever fetch Island to play around Wasteland?

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Really depends on what your up against. My gut feeling says get a basic first (I almost always get a basic first, to be honest). In this case I would say get an Island, and use your second fetch to get a Mountain. Basically, what you are asking are basic Legacy-lessons.

You play volc obvious , if your opponent waste , you won in few turn with delver , he can't waste because if he don't have mana he can't kill delver .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paradigm72

Interesting, thanks for the input. Does it change if both lands in your opening hand are Scalding Tarns? Do you always fetch the Volcanic first, or do you ever fetch Island to play around Wasteland?

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If you are going first, you obviously go island, delver, backed by daze

turn 2...fetch mountain, if they stifle, you daze.

then you have a delver and a swiftspear in play with a mountain while they are tapped out.


You need to put in more games.

In my opinion this deck should be played more control style.

Volcanic Fallout is great vs Grixis, Miracle (all the creatures there die except Angels), Infect, Elves and overall the newcome DnT.
Additionally all our Prowess creatures survive it and with one Homunculus Fallout is RR and it makes Swiftspear good also in late game.
Honestly I play 3 of them in my 75.

4 Swiftspear
3 Stormchaser
3 Homunculus
3 Reveler
and a shitload of burns and counters

Against Mentor we have Sudden Shock anyway..

I played this deck a couple times and feel like DnT and Eldrazi are kinda tough. What's your approach in these two matchups? And what are the key cards you would love to see in these two matchups?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonthan

I played this deck a couple times and feel like DnT and Eldrazi are kinda tough. What's your approach in these two matchups? And what are the key cards you would love to see in these two matchups?

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Dnt is hard.

Eldrazi...price of peogress, snap price of progress, draw another price of progress

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonthan

I played this deck a couple times and feel like DnT and Eldrazi are kinda tough. What's your approach in these two matchups? And what are the key cards you would love to see in these two matchups?

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In the former, I like Smash to Smithereens to destroy Vials and Equipment. It's a good replacement to Lava Spike if that's the build you're running.

In both matches, I like Price of Progress as gap closers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

If you are going first, you obviously go island, delver, backed by daze

turn 2...fetch mountain, if they stifle, you daze.

then you have a delver and a swiftspear in play with a mountain while they are tapped out.


You need to put in more games.

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I really find it hard to play into Wasteland (wether they have it or not), but you're right in regards of putting in more games.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Draggo

So I took the list I posted a little back and took it for a spin last weekend and figured it's not really for me. (Cut the 4 Stifles for 2 Preordain, 4th Probe and 4th Reveler. Cut 1 Pierce for Swiftspear)

1 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Curious Homunculus
4 Delver of Secrets

Spells
2 Preordain
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Forked Bolt
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

Lands
1 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island

Sideboard
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Dismember
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
1 Divert
1 Submerge
1 Shattering Spree
1 Volcanic Spray
1 Set Adrift

So I didnt got the results I wanted and ended up 1-4-0. I put some more creatures in the list for pressure but didn't draw any good follow ups even with the 14 cantrips.
To be fair, I drew my singleton Swiftspear almost every game I played and seen only a single Reveler the entire day that either got discarded or countered, not sure what happen to it but It didn't hit the battlefield.
Things I learned:
- Curious Homonculus preformed really well again. Great vs opposing Talia or just hitting for a ton with some Prowless guys/triggers.
- Swiftspear is ok, but not just 1. Boarded it away several times for better creatures.
- Proberly should drop the Wastelands entirely and go for the regulair UR builds but add some Revelers.
- I don't like the straight foreward playstyle of UR as I thought (playing Grixis tempo for the pas couple years this is a bigger switch then I guessed)

So if anyone wondered, both Reveler and Homonculus are strong and fun but this deck just aint for me.

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no wonders :eek:.
Homunculus is a card to abuse of 3/4x and you have to play 2,3cc spells (with 1 or 2 colorless) to get the real advantage of it.

Predict or Price of Progress for U or R? Yes, please.

Additionally: being 1cc nowadays is also a big liability with Sanctum Prelate and Chalice of the Void everywhere so Homunculus can be a perfect plan for Magma Jet, Predict, Price of Progress and some 3cc spells that will help a lot instead of the classic time walk (for the opponent) cantrips..

Never forget this deck doesn't manage the board at all.
G1 you have no control over artifacts, enchantments and hands and G2 you just get 2 Null Rod and 2 Smash to Smithreens to get out of corner situations

I won a small 15-man tournament some days ago with this deck: 3-2 in the swiss (lost to BR Reanimator and D&T, won against ANT and Shardless), then I defeated two D&T in a row FTW.

Stock list with 16 lands (2 islands, 2 mountains), 2 Bedlam Revelers and 3 Stormchasers.
Reveler is the real deal in grindy matchups but I don't think we should play more than 2 copies: seeing it too early is pretty much a mulligan.

D&T is a really really tough game you need a good draw and lots of practice for.
I'm not impressed with Price against them as they often have enough basics or keep up a Wasteland to destroy another one of their non basics. If you have better cards to bring in, don't be shy to cut 1-2 of them if you need to. I also cut Daze when on the Draw and Force on the play against them. T1 Vial/Mom is a "must counter if possible" in my opinion. Thalia and Sanctum Prelate without Mum/Vial are much easier to handle.
Smash to Smithereens, Sudden Demise, Sulfur Elemental, Fire/Ice are good againsh them, especially Smash and Demise/Elememtal as it takes care of both their Equipments and Vials and Demise/Elemental to "negate" their Mother of Runes (against Demise, if they only have one Mom and other stuff, they have to chose between Mom or the rest to survive)

Against Eldrazi, Price and Blood Moon are very good. Just make sure to counter their Chalice/Thorn and get them into double Bolt/Price of Progress range. they do a lot damage to themselves with Dismember/Ancient Tomb which makes it a bit easier to race them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonny Tempel

D&T is a really really tough game you need a good draw and lots of practice for.

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True, but I feel the new version of D&T (with Recruiter and Prelate) is slightly more favorable then the old: Prelate is really strong of course, but they are a bit slower in setting up the board and they leave us some more time to finish them.

Quote:

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I'm not impressed with Price against them as they often have enough basics or keep up a Wasteland to destroy another one of their non basics. If you have better cards to bring in, don't be shy to cut 1-2 of them if you need to.

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You are right again, but in my list I don't have enough cards to bring in for them (just 5-6) and the first cards to go are FoW and Daze in my opinion, so I keep Price in and I even bring the 4th price from the sideboard.
Price has the upside to dodge Prelate (which is a really big upside), and sometimes you can catch them off guard for 4-6 damage: in my last tournament Price won me two games against D&T.

Finished 10th at the SCG Milwaukee Classic last weekend, record of 5-2.
List: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=108846

I think I got pretty lucky with winnable matchups:
Junk [W 2-1]
Infect [W 2-0]
Aluren [L 1-2] - he went on to win the event
Grixis Delver [L 1-2]
4c Loam [W 2-0]
Eldrazi [W 2-1]
Infect [W 2-1]

Takeaways from the tournament:
1. True-Name was excellent, and won me a couple games where few other cards would have - not even a second Reveler. I am considering adding the 2nd True-Name in the board for fair matchups, since they often seem to be a lot more interactive and drawn-out. He is great at both stabilizing the board and punching through the last 3 or 6 damage.
2. The biggest challenge is still decks that can consistently remove early creatures and draw the game out into a card-for-card midrange battle. I lost to Aluren in both post-board games because he boarded in removal, then kept hands with lots of it to stop my early threats. These kinds of games are the ones that make me wish I had more than 8 one-drops.
3. The advice earlier in the thread to be less conservative about playing the Volcanic turn one helped, I think. There were a couple games where the extra tempo from have U turn one and RR turn two made the difference. Thanks to those of you who pushed me on it.

Took down the Community Legacy League on MTGO on Wednesday with this list :

MAINDECK (60 Cards)
14 Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Bedlam Reveler

30 Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
2 Chain Lightning
2 Price of Progress
2 Vapor Snag

16 Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Mountain

SIDEBOARD (15 Cards)
3 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Vapor Snag
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroblast
1 Price of Progress
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Exquisite Firecraft

Beat Elves 2-0, "Murky Water" (B/U Control) 2-0, Grixis Tezz 2-0, and won in the finals vs BR Reanimator 2-1

Before anyone asks, the Vapor Snags were partially a joke/concession to the same guy who's beat me with Hex Depths in the finals the last 2 weeks (I was on Colorless Eldrazi both times, and told him I was going to UR Delver with 4 Vapor Snags in the main)

Really love playing UR Delver, but I won't go through a league with it because I feel the Miracles matchup is just too bad vs the good one Eldrazi has.

The SB really needs work, but this is the best I could do in 10 minutes prior to the event.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pateuglow

Took down the Community Legacy League on MTGO on Wednesday with this list :

MAINDECK (60 Cards)
14 Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Bedlam Reveler

30 Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
2 Chain Lightning
2 Price of Progress
2 Vapor Snag

16 Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Mountain

SIDEBOARD (15 Cards)
3 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Vapor Snag
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroblast
1 Price of Progress
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Exquisite Firecraft

Beat Elves 2-0, "Murky Water" (B/U Control) 2-0, Grixis Tezz 2-0, and won in the finals vs BR Reanimator 2-1

Before anyone asks, the Vapor Snags were partially a joke/concession to the same guy who's beat me with Hex Depths in the finals the last 2 weeks (I was on Colorless Eldrazi both times, and told him I was going to UR Delver with 4 Vapor Snags in the main)

Really love playing UR Delver, but I won't go through a league with it because I feel the Miracles matchup is just too bad vs the good one Eldrazi has.

The SB really needs work, but this is the best I could do in 10 minutes prior to the event.

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How has Vapor Snag performed for you? I have to admit i'm not a fan of maindecking them, PoP is just a way better card in my opinion.
For fighting Miracles, you could try out Wipe Away or Set Adrift. And there's always the option to include a single Tropical Island/Underground Sea in your deck to run a few copies of Krosan Grip/Ancient Grudge or Cabal Therapy in your board against Miracles or Combo.


Still running YP over Stormchaser but i've recently cut down to 3 YP and added a single Snapcaster for that extra PoP or Bolt. So far he has done very well for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonny Tempel

How has Vapor Snag performed for you? I have to admit i'm not a fan of maindecking them, PoP is just a way better card in my opinion.
For fighting Miracles, you could try out Wipe Away or Set Adrift. And there's always the option to include a single Tropical Island/Underground Sea in your deck to run a few copies of Krosan Grip/Ancient Grudge or Cabal Therapy in your board against Miracles or Combo.


Still running YP over Stormchaser but i've recently cut down to 3 YP and added a single Snapcaster for that extra PoP or Bolt. So far he has done very well for me.

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In the meta that I played the deck in (community legacy league) I knew that Miracles was non-existent. Vapor Snag was very good vs the decks I knew I'd see (Hex Depths, BR Reanimator, etc)

SCM would be great if I owned them on mtgo

In the following scenario, what's your choice?
Oponent is playing BURG control - shaman, goyf, strix, bolt, decay
My list is prowess oriented build including two revelers https://deckbox.org/sets/1389963

I lead with an island + delver. Hand: mountain, swiftspear, daze, bolt, ponder
Oponent plays a fetch into USea + shaman.

The question:
Should I daze it leaving me with one land the next turn?
Should I let it resolve and bolt it next turn + ponder?
Should I let it live and go switftspear + ponder and keep the bolt for later?

Thanks.

Daze it, please

Daze it: let him fight over it if he can, or put it in the GY.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Daze it: let him fight over it if he can, or put it in the GY.

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Thanks.
Actually, I am usually doing that but losing to strix plus goyf later. I was wondering if there was a better play.

Wow, why would you ever Daze that? Opponent follows up with Goyf into Decay or whatever and you have a problem. Definitely Bolt the Deathrite. If you want to Ponder on your turn as well depends on your draw step. Don't want to if it's a land, but leaning yes if it's another cantrip.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander

Wow, why would you ever Daze that? Opponent follows up with Goyf into Decay or whatever and you have a problem. Definitely Bolt the Deathrite. If you want to Ponder on your turn as well depends on your draw step. Don't want to if it's a land, but leaning yes if it's another cantrip.

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Absolutely. You already have the Bolt for it letting you have a neat turn two of bolt and Ponder (assuming nothing changes with the draw step as Jonathan points out.

I would also definitely bolt. There are much more impactful targets for Daze that Bolt either doesn't deal with very profitably, or doesn't deal with at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander

Wow, why would you ever Daze that? Opponent follows up with Goyf into Decay or whatever and you have a problem. Definitely Bolt the Deathrite. If you want to Ponder on your turn as well depends on your draw step. Don't want to if it's a land, but leaning yes if it's another cantrip.

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If you don't Daze it probably you won't Daze the Tarmogoyf if the opponent has 3 mana sources in the second turn

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Originally Posted by dog_koko

If you don't Daze it probably you won't Daze the Tarmogoyf if the opponent has 3 mana sources in the second turn

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Not if you bolt the DRS...

Thanks guys,
it makes sense to bolt the shaman and hope to daze something bigger later.

Is it always bad idea to let the shaman running around and just burn their head as fast as possible?

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Originally Posted by jattra

Thanks guys,
it makes sense to bolt the shaman and hope to daze something bigger later.

Is it always bad idea to let the shaman running around and just burn their head as fast as possible?

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Usually yes since Shaman can gain two life making your bolts looks pretty poor.

Though it's obviously context dependent. There may be no creatures in GYs, they've got no green mana or are bottlenecked on mana if you're ahead on board so can't use the shaman for life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

Not if you bolt the DRS...

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Wait, he can still float mana in response right? Or do you mean bolt in our t2 (so DRS still has SumSic)?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Wait, he can still float mana in response right? Or do you mean bolt in our t2 (so DRS still has SumSic)?

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Yes, bolt on our turn two. If you're planning on killing it with the bolt no point in letting them use it or have stuff like Spell Pierce up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

Yes, bolt on our turn two. If you're planning on killing it with the bolt no point in letting them use it or have stuff like Spell Pierce up.

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I would just Daze it, but this makes sense. I'm just getting into U-based decks :smile:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chatto

I would just Daze it, but this makes sense. I'm just getting into U-based decks :smile:

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Dazing it when you have the option of bolting puts you down a land drop, and also takes away the option to daze a Tarmogoyf or Baleful Strix which aren't answered (cleanly) with Bolt. Dazing also opens you up to an opposing Daze, if you just wait to bolt it you can daze their daze and know they won't be following it up with a Goyf or Strix the next turn. You can then Ponder accordingly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

Dazing it when you have the option of bolting puts you down a land drop, and also takes away the option to daze a Tarmogoyf or Baleful Strix which aren't answered (cleanly) with Bolt. Dazing also opens you up to an opposing Daze, if you just wait to bolt it you can daze their daze and know they won't be following it up with a Goyf or Strix the next turn. You can then Ponder accordingly.

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This!
Totally agreed

DRS should never stayed on the table, ever. But if your hand already has mean of dealing with it, always save the Daze for something else.

I should also quickly add before I look stupid that you can pay for their daze on turn two as well, so they won't play it!