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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Okay, so I took down a small, private tournament yesterday evening on the back of our lovely deck ;)
For reference, this is the list I used:
- Lands
3x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Bloodstained Mire
7x Mountain
1x Great Furnace
- Creatures
4x Painter's Servant
2x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3x Imperial Recruiter
1x Magus of the Moon
2x Goblin Welder
- Other spells
4x Grindstone
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Blood Moon
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Pyroblast
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Lotus Petal
- Sideboard
3x Pyroclasm
2x Red Elemental Blast
4x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Sulfur Elemental
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Manic Vandal
I opted for a more stable manabase, since I've been having trouble with 8 sol lands for a long time. Furthermore I wanted to be able to have some welder possibilities, by adding the singleton Great Furnace. Which at the end, turned out great :)
It was a 6 round swiss tournament followed by a top 4.
- Round 1:
U/R Delver (Cruise style)
I won the die roll, and ended up winning game 1, since my OPP didn't see more than 1 land, through 21 cards.
Game 2, the opposite happened. I kept a 1 land hand, that had CoT and a SDT, so I figured I could keep and then dig for more lands, but it didn't happen. :(
Game 3 was the most play we both got out of the match, but he'd boardet most of the blue cards out, to turn into a more burn oriented build.
0-1 and my back against the wall, for the rest of the tournament.
- Round 2:
12 Post
Since I didn't have Tormod's Crypt or something else to remove the GY, I needed to play the control role in this MU. Which game 1 ended up being. Through the game, I fetched a couple of times, and took one hit from a Primeval Titan, before eventually using Jaya Ballard to incinerate him, staying behind a bridge.
Game 2, I didn't stop him, before it was too late.. Got a moon down, but he had his basics in play, so it was only a matter of time, before he could hardcast Emrakul and the likes..
Game 3 however... Didn't loose a single point of life, thanks to a CoT, delivering mana for a blood moon, followed by a bridge into Jaya Ballard, hitting him again and again :D
1-1, we're still in it :D
- Round 3:
U/W/R Miracles
Dieroll goes in favor of my OPP, he starts out with an Island into SDT. my first turn was CoT into revoker, in response he drew a card, then Revoker landed on the board, naming SDT.
From there, Blood Moon is a strong card, giving me control over the game, landing the combo in 5 or 6 turns.
Game 2 he couldn't do much against me, landing the combo and grinding him out. :)
Normally I try to throw down Painter's Servant, using my blasts as counterspells/land destruction until I can find the Grindstone and then combo.
But I've been successfull in landing Grindstone early and then sandbag the blasts in hand, waiting for my mana to develop and then do a "alpha turn", where I land the Painter, combo and then protect it at all costs.. :D
2-1, I've got a good feeling now, and I'm sitting at the end of the appartment, where there's room to sit and play properly.
- Round 4:
NicFit control
Yet again, I loose the dieroll, resulting in him, playing a Cabal Therapy naming Painter's Servant. He hits and sees a hand with 2 Pyroblasts and some lands.. The Cabal was cast from a Bayou btw.
I play a mountain, casting SDT. His second turn, taps Bayou for Veteran Explorer, sacks it right away to flashback the Therapy, he then finds basic Island and Swamp, me getting 2 Mountains. As i recollect it, he played a Ponder, giving me the turn. Looking EOT with the Top, seeing a Blood Moon, putting it on top, drawing it, playing it, which cuts him off of green mana, rendering his Pernicious Deeds, he had in hand, useless :D
Nothing to do more than develop my board, putting the combo in play and activate.
Game 2, pretty much the same, he has 5 lands in play:
1x Swamp
2x Island
2x Grove of the Burnwillows
But not BB, for Liliana otV and stuff :D
3-1, just gotta win 1 more :D
- Round 5:
U/W/R Miracles
By winning this, I should be able to draw into the top 4.
Knowing he's on Miracles, does help a lot, when deciding mulligans. But the thing I love about iPainter, is that you can moon people out of games :D
Which was the case for these 2 games. Game 1 results in 7 damage from my own lands, but I managed to dodge a Terminus a Jace, TMS and a Counterbalance. Game 2 was a bit slower, but planting Jaya Ballard with a Painter on board, using blasts as protection for Jaya to incinerate was soooooo much fun :D
Oh well, 4-1 :) With 2 people on 13 points and me and another on 12, we ID'd into the semi's..
4-1-1 :D
- Semifinal
Death and Taxes
As you may have noticed... Sudden Shock in the main and 2 Sulfur Elemental... I did NOT wanna loose this MU!
Game 1 starts off with him going for a Plains into Mother of Runes. My starting hand included Sudden Shock, so... Let's game :D
I go, Ancient Tomb into Revoker, naming MoR. He untaps, swording it. Okay, so fine so good. I play a mountain, putting SDT in play, looking.
He puts Thalia into play, beating me a couple of times, placing a Revoker on the battlefield, naming Grindstone, which I had in play. EOT on his turn, I play the Sudden Shock on his Revoker, killing it. He had Thalia in play, but only 1 Plains untapped, which was the deciding factor for me to play the SS. I untap, play the Painter and activate Grindstone, winning game 1.
Game 2 was another story though :/
We enter a staring contest, which ended in him, winning game 2, where we both had only 11 cards left in our libraries :D
The other people at the tournament was amazed, that nothing happened :D I guess you would have had to be there to appreciate the situation :P
Game 3, was a little like game 1. I Had 2 Sudden Shock on my opening hand, controlling the game from start to finish..... FINALS :D
- Final
U/R Blues Cruise
I can only say one thing.... Believe in denying Treasure Cruise :D
Complete control from start to finish, playing to my outs and never letting the boogeyman of the format resolve. :D
My life total went from 20 to 7 over the course of game 1, while my opponent was on 20, the entire time.
Having cut his fetchlands off, so he couldn't play more than 1 blue spell every turn, was crucial for me to control the game. :)
Game 2 was a bit more interactive from both sides. I had a graveyard in the middle of the game, which consisted of 1 Goblin Welder and 5 blasts :D
As we say in Denmark: I had the "NO!" cap on :D
Almost a pristine run through the tournament, battling a lot of - at least what I concider - bad MU's for my version of the deck....
Luck was also a VERY big factor for me, yesterday, but I'll take it :D
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I played seven games against UR Cruise over the weekend in a tournament and can attest that Painter can in no way be aggressive and win over the long run. I turn two'd my UR opp once which was lucky, considering they pondered and brainstormed before scooping. But in all the other games, when they way out drew me with Cruise it was just over. That spell can not resolve. Damage can be mitigated, our combo can be protected, but they can not be allowed to Recall. The games I lost I lost due to playing too aggressively (pre-Cruise resolving) and losing the bet that they would have either the Bolt or FoW to break up the combo. Close calls, sure, but it's becoming more apparant that the key to this matchup is fighting over Cruise the same way a Recall is fought over in Vintage.
Again my experience against the deck is limited. We'll know in a month or two what's the best plan to beat the deck.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phoenix4
"As you may have noticed... Sudden Shock in the main"
I don't see any in your list. Were the 4 bolts really 4 sudden shocks?
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jandax
I played seven games against UR Cruise over the weekend in a tournament and can attest that Painter can in no way be aggressive and win over the long run. I turn two'd my UR opp once which was lucky, considering they pondered and brainstormed before scooping. But in all the other games, when they way out drew me with Cruise it was just over. That spell can not resolve. Damage can be mitigated, our combo can be protected, but they can not be allowed to Recall. The games I lost I lost due to playing too aggressively (pre-Cruise resolving) and losing the bet that they would have either the Bolt or FoW to break up the combo. Close calls, sure, but it's becoming more apparant that the key to this matchup is fighting over Cruise the same way a Recall is fought over in Vintage.
Again my experience against the deck is limited. We'll know in a month or two what's the best plan to beat the deck.
I agree... TomCruise can NOT be permitted to resolve :D
Because of this, I've got blast 7 and 8 in the SB, to get around this :)
But I'm a lot less scared of the MU, than 2 weeks ago :)
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mgoldman
I don't see any in your list. Were the 4 bolts really 4 sudden shocks?
Haha :D
yeah, sorry, the 4 bolts were Sudden Shock :D
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
The sudden shock is amazing!!! I played 4 in main last month in a 63 player's tournament getting 6th place. It was the key against delver decks, shaman, mavericks...U/R burn is a hard match that's why i play wurmcoil engine in the sideboard. It worked to me...also i play lightning greaves in side and equipped in a welder and wurmcoil in battlefield...
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nayashi
The sudden shock is amazing!!! I played 4 in main last month in a 63 player's tournament getting 6th place. It was the key against delver decks, shaman, mavericks...U/R burn is a hard match that's why i play wurmcoil engine in the sideboard. It worked to me...also i play lightning greaves in side and equipped in a welder and wurmcoil in battlefield...
Seems to me, like a Blood Moon, within the first 3 turns (So they have to naturally draw their islands) is just as crucial as anything. But yes, the Sudden Shocks shone like a star, in my semi against Death and Taxes. Being able to circumvent their MoR is awesome :D
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nayashi
The sudden shock is amazing!!! I played 4 in main last month in a 63 player's tournament getting 6th place. It was the key against delver decks, shaman, mavericks...U/R burn is a hard match that's why i play wurmcoil engine in the sideboard. It worked to me...also i play lightning greaves in side and equipped in a welder and wurmcoil in battlefield...
Would you mind sharing your list and SB? I've been playing the stock shortcake list for a little while now and will likely play it in New Jersey but I'm still considering Merfolk, or maybe even burn. The biggest problem I seem to have is keeping my servant on the table.
A question to all, I've always assumed naming blue against a FoW deck is a bad idea so I haven't been doing so, but then there's no protection from a REB for the servant. Is that the correct line of play or should I just always name blue to keep the REBs active, even if you don't have on in hand at the time?
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mgoldman
A question to all, I've always assumed naming blue against a FoW deck is a bad idea so I haven't been doing so, but then there's no protection from a REB for the servant. Is that the correct line of play or should I just always name blue to keep the REBs active, even if you don't have on in hand at the time?
I will name blue in a few situations: If they have a lot of pressure that I cannot deal with unless I attempt to blast a "blue" Tarmogoyf, if I need to combo quickly and protect the combo, or if I have a Grindstone available (welder out and one in the yard or a stone already on the table).
I am unsure if this is 100% correct, but it is what I have been doing so far.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Against UR delver it's wise not to name Blue right off, but it can be beneficial. You just need to have a read on the situation. If they've run out a number of FoWs already, then you have more incentive, however, they'll board in Blasts against Painter as well, often enough. You don't want to turn those on, either. Yet your blasts remain relevant because they counter their counters and deal with their good cards (cantrips, delver) so it's more of an advantage not to name Blue. Against something like Esperblade, you're turning their FoW's on but in trade, you're opening up all their permanents and spells to blast effects. Only experience will give you the most correct answer, and in short I would simply hesitate to name Blue against FoW decks unless you know you have a better shot at winning.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mgoldman
Would you mind sharing your list and SB? I've been playing the stock shortcake list for a little while now and will likely play it in New Jersey but I'm still considering Merfolk, or maybe even burn. The biggest problem I seem to have is keeping my servant on the table.
A question to all, I've always assumed naming blue against a FoW deck is a bad idea so I haven't been doing so, but then there's no protection from a REB for the servant. Is that the correct line of play or should I just always name blue to keep the REBs active, even if you don't have on in hand at the time?
Main deck
3 City of Traitors
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Great Furnace
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Goblin Welder
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Painter's Servant
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Blood Moon
3 Lotus Petal
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Grindstone
2 Enlightened Tutor
SB
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Manic Vandal
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Trinisphere
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I'm slowly updating some of the posts on the front page. What things do people want added? And if someone makes a sweet banner for shortcake I'll switch out the pictures of recruiter and etutor for it.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kap'n Cook
I'm slowly updating some of the posts on the front page. What things do people want added? And if someone makes a sweet banner for shortcake I'll switch out the pictures of recruiter and etutor for it.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...iPainter-1.jpg
I made this banner awhile ago, I'd love to see it get used!
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Holy fuck, i want that as a playmat
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mgoldman
Would you mind sharing your list and SB? I've been playing the stock shortcake list for a little while now and will likely play it in New Jersey but I'm still considering Merfolk, or maybe even burn. The biggest problem I seem to have is keeping my servant on the table.
A question to all, I've always assumed naming blue against a FoW deck is a bad idea so I haven't been doing so, but then there's no protection from a REB for the servant. Is that the correct line of play or should I just always name blue to keep the REBs active, even if you don't have on in hand at the time?
I posted it few weeks ago...so here it's
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15005&iddeck=111217main:
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Goblin Welder
3 Imperial Recruiter
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Painter's Servant
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast
4 Sudden Shock
4 Blood Moon
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Lotus Petal
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Grindstone
1 Great Furnace
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Plateau
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Scalding Tarn
5 Mountain
Sideboard:
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Manic Vandal
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Lightning Greaves
2 Rest in Peace
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Volcanic Fallout
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jandax
Holy fuck, i want that as a playmat
I'm with you :D
Can we have the file? (I'm assuming you used Ps?) :)
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phoenix4
I'm with you :D
Can we have the file? (I'm assuming you used Ps?) :)
I did make it with Photoshop. However this was more laid out for a banner size. However I could make more of a playmat friendly version and maybe even add some other iPainter staples if people would want a painter mat.
If you want the banner file though, I can certainly share it!
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I'm working on my sideboard and I would like to hear the pros and cons of trinisphere vs thorn of amathyst? I'm currently running 2 trini and 0 thorn. I see lists with 1 of each and opposite of what I am running. So far trini has won me a match vs ANT but otherwise it hasn't been boarded in much and when it was I rarely see it/needed to find it. Thoughts?
Would also like to hear peoples thoughts on COP:red for use in NJ. I've heard a few people say they expect a lot of burn. I've also seen it used effectively against UR delver. I already have 2 byes (won a GPT with burn coincidentally enough) so hoping to avoid a lot of the random stuff one might be paired against in the first 2 rounds.
Thanks all!
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I'm not sure I understand the split either. I prefer trinisphere personally but the difference between 2 and 3 mana is relevant.
I don't like the thought of cop red personally. The thought of having ancient tomb and CoP out together drives me crazy but others have said good things about it. I personally want to try sphere of law. Other people suggested leyline of sanctity and dragon's claw.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mapson
I'm not sure I understand the split either. I prefer trinisphere personally but the difference between 2 and 3 mana is relevant.
I don't like the thought of cop red personally. The thought of having ancient tomb and CoP out together drives me crazy but others have said good things about it. I personally want to try sphere of law. Other people suggested leyline of sanctity and dragon's claw.
Dragons Claw is nice because you gain life off of a good majority of your spells as well. It also has interaction with welder. You could also name red with painter, making your artifact spells gain you life.
Leyline is nice because of the ability to play it for free right away. However Its WW makes it hard to cast, and by the time you are able to cast it you might be already close to dead.
COP seems ok. Never tried it myself, once again you can also name red with painter, giving you protection from anything as long as painter is out.(assuming you have the mana)
Burn decks also seem to have more artifact hate than enchantment hate, so you have to take that into consideration too.
There isn't a real clear cut choice when it comes to the Burn hate. As far as Trinisphere goes, Ive always liked it more than Thorn.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mapson
I'm not sure I understand the split either. I prefer trinisphere personally but the difference between 2 and 3 mana is relevant.
I don't like the thought of cop red personally. The thought of having ancient tomb and CoP out together drives me crazy but others have said good things about it. I personally want to try sphere of law. Other people suggested leyline of sanctity and dragon's claw.
True but something just occurred to me. If you have a painter out naming red, you could tap the tomb for 2 mana then use one of them to prevent the damage from the tomb, and the other to prevent the spell. A corner case for sure but could end up being relevant. I'm currently running 1 in the sideboard but it seems as soon as I put it in, I stopped facing burn decks. I expect a few tonight though so hopefully I'll get to test it out.
Has anyone tried hanna's custody? It shuts down the welder but protects both pieces of the combo and the bridge. The only time I had it in play was against D&T and it backfired because I couldn't blow up his revoker that was on my grindstone.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UnsungHero
Congrats!! Awesome!
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Alright, so I am trying to get some lists with Daretti together for testing in the coming week and hopefully for GPNJ. Below is the first Mono Red list I have thrown together. Other than the 3 Recruiters (I am trying Ringo's idea) let me know what you guys think and how this can be improved.
Main
4 Painter's Servant
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Imperial Recruiter
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Goblin Welder
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Grindstone
4 Blood Moon
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Ensnaring Bridge
7 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Great Furnace
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Daretti, Scrap Savant
Side
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Manic Vandal
1 Koth of the Hammer
4 Dragon's Claw
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Phyrexian Revoker
Once of the things I am REALLY concerned about is the amount of Burn and U/R Delver that will be at NJ. One of the reasons I am leaning towards the Mono Red list is because Dragons Claw can do a lot to help these match-ups and I cannot justify running White and E. Tutor without a full toolbox in the sideboard.
Edit: If I go Mono red, I also don't have to play a single white-bordered card!! :laugh:
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Just thinking, you will definitely see alot of U/R Delver and maybe some burn or goblins like deck. As such, wouldn't firebolt/Pyrokinesis (potentially card advantage) or sudden shock (definitely kill that swift) be better then lightning bolt?
I been testing all the above in my SB and including pyroclasm, and I find that all of them are better in most cases then lightning bolt. The meta now seems to be full of cheap small creatures with toughness at 2 or less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cab0747
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cab0747
Edit: If I go Mono red, I also don't have to play a single white-bordered card!! :laugh:
No P3K Recruiters :cry:
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jake556
No P3K Recruiters :cry:
Sorry, I am lame and have the Judge foils.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oliverpool
Just thinking, you will definitely see alot of U/R Delver and maybe some burn or goblins like deck. As such, wouldn't firebolt/Pyrokinesis (potentially card advantage) or sudden shock (definitely kill that swift) be better then lightning bolt?
I been testing all the above in my SB and including pyroclasm, and I find that all of them are better in most cases then lightning bolt. The meta now seems to be full of cheap small creatures with toughness at 2 or less.
Yea, the lightning bolts were the 2 cards I was still up in the air on. The sideboard is pretty cramped already. I was considering going down to 3 Dragon's Claw to make some additional space. I was pretty tired when I put this together last night. I will give it some more thought today as well as a Rw list. Hopefully I can get to something I am happy with.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mapson
I'm not sure I understand the split either. I prefer trinisphere personally but the difference between 2 and 3 mana is relevant.
I don't like the thought of cop red personally. The thought of having ancient tomb and CoP out together drives me crazy but others have said good things about it. I personally want to try sphere of law. Other people suggested leyline of sanctity and dragon's claw.
I personally like that Sphere of Law can be a 1 of in the sideboard, tutorable, dodges Eidolon triggers, stops a whole team of Young Pyro + Tokens, and doesn't care about Sulfuric Vortex. Great against Burn and UR Delver.
I think I'm also going to run a mix of Sudden Shock + Firebolt, either 1/3 or 2/2. Preorderd 2 Darettis and gonna try to grind out some games before GP NJ.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I am really struggling to figure out how to beat ur delver which is frustrating me to no end. Can you guys offer me some advice on how you play the matchup/ how you sideboard for it? I was trying something different today, we couldn't get many games in but I felt better about it. I cut all the creatures other than painter and Spirit guides. I brought in manic vandal for pithing needle and null rod, E Bridge, REB, ratchet bomb, sphere of law (loved it), trinisphere, thorn, 2xRip, helm of obedience (liking this package), e canonist, and 3 firebolt (kinda a nonbo with rip, but wasn't relevant).
I've read the first page already.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I haven't tested the new matchup enough to say anything concrete but from my pre cruise experience I can say the UR and burn MU is really poor for strawberry especially with the higher dual and fetch count.
I have found spellskite to be a very valuable card in forcing them to play fair well protecting our combo for quick kills. Most of the time we are forced to be the beat down simply because they interact so well against our combo. This can change that.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mapson
I am really struggling to figure out how to beat ur delver which is frustrating me to no end. Can you guys offer me some advice on how you play the matchup/ how you sideboard for it? I was trying something different today, we couldn't get many games in but I felt better about it. I cut all the creatures other than painter and Spirit guides. I brought in manic vandal for pithing needle and null rod, E Bridge, REB, ratchet bomb, sphere of law (loved it), trinisphere, thorn, 2xRip, helm of obedience (liking this package), e canonist, and 3 firebolt (kinda a nonbo with rip, but wasn't relevant).
I've read the first page already.
I've been running spirit of the labyrinth. I think its a bad idea cut off the recruiters.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mapson
I am really struggling to figure out how to beat ur delver which is frustrating me to no end. Can you guys offer me some advice on how you play the matchup/ how you sideboard for it? I was trying something different today, we couldn't get many games in but I felt better about it. I cut all the creatures other than painter and Spirit guides. I brought in manic vandal for pithing needle and null rod, E Bridge, REB, ratchet bomb, sphere of law (loved it), trinisphere, thorn, 2xRip, helm of obedience (liking this package), e canonist, and 3 firebolt (kinda a nonbo with rip, but wasn't relevant).
I've read the first page already.
I haven't had a chance to play that match-up with an updated list, but keeping welders in and having Ratchet bomb (main) and another Bomb or EE side should probably help.
Edit: Does anyone know when the Commander products are released on MTGO? I am excited to test the new cards.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mapson
I am really struggling to figure out how to beat ur delver which is frustrating me to no end. Can you guys offer me some advice on how you play the matchup/ how you sideboard for it? I was trying something different today, we couldn't get many games in but I felt better about it. I cut all the creatures other than painter and Spirit guides. I brought in manic vandal for pithing needle and null rod, E Bridge, REB, ratchet bomb, sphere of law (loved it), trinisphere, thorn, 2xRip, helm of obedience (liking this package), e canonist, and 3 firebolt (kinda a nonbo with rip, but wasn't relevant).
I've read the first page already.
I was testing against my friend who was on UR Cruise/Viking Funeral/Cruise Control quite a bitand the Sudden Shock was a House. I have also been testing pyroclasm to great success as well, which is also good against DnT and elves where Pyroclasm really slows them down. As Mc Bain Said, Spellskite is a house it usually requires 2 burn spells to get rid of it and can buy alot of time for you to establish board presence. I'm running Jacks RW list, -1 Revoker for a Spellskite.
Assuming you would be playing my list against UR
-4 Blood Moon
-1 Magus of the Moon
-2 Bridge (I board out bridge, because its not always consistent, and you are bringing in more removal for their creatures anyways. If you can't empty your hand its a bad draw and Young Peezy tokens can really get out of control and play around bridge,G1 it can be good but generally G2 they bring in artifact hate as well)
-1 Jaya (When I test Daretti, I think shes going to be cut for him, as I only really use Jaya in the Sneak & Derp match)
-1 Revoker (Since Cruise is a thing Grim Lavamancer really inst a thing anymore)
+ 4 Burn Spells (Sudden Shock,Fire/Lighning bolt,Pyroclasm)
+ 1 Ratchet Bomb
+ 1 REB
+ 1 Trinisphere
+ 1 Manic Vandal
+ 1 Ethersworn Canoist
This is what I've been doing. I feel that the games I played this was the correct way to board, but I could be wrong. It worked well though, as we grinded alot of games and I came out on top or the games were super close, never a big blow out.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UnsungHero
I was testing against my friend who was on UR Cruise/Viking Funeral/Cruise Control quite a bitand the Sudden Shock was a House. I have also been testing pyroclasm to great success as well, which is also good against DnT and elves where Pyroclasm really slows them down. As Mc Bain Said, Spellskite is a house it usually requires 2 burn spells to get rid of it and can buy alot of time for you to establish board presence. I'm running Jacks RW list, -1 Revoker for a Spellskite.
Assuming you would be playing my list against UR
-4 Blood Moon
-1 Magus of the Moon
-2 Bridge (I board out bridge, because its not always consistent, and you are bringing in more removal for their creatures anyways. If you can't empty your hand its a bad draw and Young Peezy tokens can really get out of control and play around bridge,G1 it can be good but generally G2 they bring in artifact hate as well)
-1 Jaya (When I test Daretti, I think shes going to be cut for him, as I only really use Jaya in the Sneak & Derp match)
-1 Revoker (Since Cruise is a thing Grim Lavamancer really inst a thing anymore)
+ 4 Burn Spells (Sudden Shock,Fire/Lighning bolt,Pyroclasm)
+ 1 Ratchet Bomb
+ 1 REB
+ 1 Trinisphere
+ 1 Manic Vandal
+ 1 Ethersworn Canoist
This is what I've been doing. I feel that the games I played this was the correct way to board, but I could be wrong. It worked well though, as we grinded alot of games and I came out on top or the games were super close, never a big blow out.
While moon isn't great against them (and certainly not where you want to be as your plan in this matchup, it does make brainstorm and cruise much worse. I normally leave in 2 maybe 1. When I take out moon effects, I tend to remove the accelerants for moon first (petals, ssg). I like to keep 1 ssg in though since I have had multiple times where getting the extra mana the following turn after fetching with recruiter has been good. Not to mention PoP out of their board is a beating without moon in play. We will basically lose to that on the spot if we haven't already killed them.
I have been thinking about moving jaya to the board though. She is very slow and not really what I want to be doing in most matchups, sns being the one obvious exception. But that mat hup g1 is just about bridge anyways.
I did really like sudden shock in testing against pretty much any delver variant as well as elves and deathblade.
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[Deck] Imperial Painter
@cab: when building the deck more around Daretti, you probably want some lotus petals to play with over monkeys. You could also consider 1-2 pyrite spellbomb
As for sudden shock, I'm still torn. It is very good against any stoneforge or delver deck. But I still REALLY like pyrokinesis better in the tribal matchups.
Finally, I did pick up 2 of the red commander decks for Daretti (and dualcaster mages?). That card definitely changes the play style of the deck. It definitely increases consistency of the deck but still not sure I'm on board. Really interested to know what other people are thinking.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I have a tournament to play sunday 16, so I will practice a lot this weekend. This is my list:
Main deck (60 cards)
3 City of Traitors
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Great Furnace
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
4 Ancient Tomb
19 lands
2 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Goblin Welder
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Painter's Servant
17 creatures
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Blood Moon
3 Lotus Petal
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Grindstone
2 Enlightened Tutor
24 other spells
Sideboard (15 cards)
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Manic Vandal
3 creatures
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
1 Sphere of Law
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Trinisphere
12 other spells
What do you think guys?
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I would try one Daretti, one spellskite main. Minus one revoker and one jaya.
Then play sudden shock in the board. From the sounds of it people have had good success in testing and large tournaments.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
In preparation for GPNJ, something that occurred to me, with some discussion with Cab and with Kapn about his list on stream last night, is the dwindling value of Phyrexian Revoker, at least in the main deck. I'm running 1 MD now, and the card is poor against Burn, U/R Delver, and Miracles which I'm at least expecting a lot of at the GP, in addition to other less common decks. While it's still very good in a number of other match ups, and I definitely think Revoker should be in the deck for planeswalkers, Sneak Attack, Elves, DnT, Storm etc., I think that Sudden Shock, like many are suggesting here might be a good effect to have without as many Revokers in the list.
I've tested Sudden Shock a bit since it seems to be putting up results, and it has been very good for me as well. It deals with a lot of problematic cards that Revoker does as well (i.e. Mother of Runes/Deathrite Shaman) while also being an unfizzleable/uncounterable removal spell for Delver, Pyromancer, Swiftspear, Eidolon, Goblin Guide, Wirewood Symbiote, etc. etc. etc. It also greatly reduces the need to play around the opponents hand or countermagic, and lets you focus your REB effects towards protecting your combo, or on other important battles in the game. This comes at the cost of 1 colorless mana more than the other options, but often saves you a card for later.
One way to look at the Firebolt/Lightning Bolt/Sudden Shock debate beyond the casting costs and instant/sorcery debates is trying to figure out how important it is that the removal of an individual target actually occurs. In my experience, all of the red creatures listed above come from strategies that require us to immediately control them or just die to their burn spells, and through this lens, Sudden Shock or Firebolt seem best positioned and can be debated from there. Additionally, shutting down bounce tricks from elves, and protection tricks from MoR on Revokers naming Grindstone and the like helps to simplify these other match ups.
Overall, since I am opting to run fewer Revokers, I think that since Sudden Shock kills its target virtually 100% of the time it's cast, and overlaps in purpose with Revoker in some situations, it is either worth running exclusively, or heavily considering some split of SS and FB or LB weighted towards Sudden shock.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
One small correction. Revoker is Boss against miracles. I have a third in the board for that reason.
I do agree with the split second nature of sudden shock. All to often delvers whole plan centers around ONE threat. What a shame when they can't protect it with a hand of 7 counterspells.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I am currently testing Daretti, Feldon, Dragons Claw.....and Sudden Shock on mtgo. Daretti so far has been nuts in the matchups I have had.
Sudden shock has been the nuts so far as well....one big thing I have found its ability to stop jitte from saving the creature. So many games I have lost because of a resolved jitte and one creature...now I just kill it and go on with my day.
I am in the anti revoker crowd. I like 1 in the main....2 not so much.....
Later EddieO
