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Honestly, stay away from Grunt. I have tried him so many times in this deck and others and he has been a raging disappointment every single time. If you want creatures that are good against removal, check out Hawk. I know plenty of people don't believe me, but Hawk is very solid against removal heavy deck. He flies and wears equipment. That's what the deck wants.
Jotun grunt is crazy good, Have you played with him? He has a 4 ass that cannot be bolted by zoo and can block Kitties all day. Most importantly he shrinks goyf, kotrs and stops your opponent from casting Stalker. He is an allstar, though I won't run 4. Grunt is terrible in multiples. I play 2 but 3 is probably ok too. Hawk is ok if you need gas, but this deck seems to have enough dudes to carry equipment already. Hawk is better in a dedicated deck built to abuse him.
I've tried him many times in many variations of the deck. He is unreliable in both dealing with GYs and sticking around. For every MU he is ok against, he is weak against another.
He is only terrible vs dedicated control like like landstill/counterbalance because he will eventually die. I just treat him as a 2 mana double fireblast. Kotr, Goyf and Stalker are extremely common now. In a big event, you will see either one or multiples of those creatures in 6/10 matches. It's ok if you don't like him in a heavy control environment, but there is very very little control right now if you look at the SCG lists. Most are midrange/combo decks.
Huge fan of Jotun Grunt. I only use 2 of him in the deck because of his upkeep cost but he's good in many ways.
-With aether Vial, you can use him as a combat trick to block.
-shrinks Goyf, Terravore, KOTR. Makes it a bit harder to play tombstalker, threshold takes a bit longer.
-can mess with decks that rely on graveyards. putting Life from the loam on the bottom of the library is nice.
-I've also got back my Sword of Fire and Ice using Grunt and Mystic.
Never tried Squadron Hawk. Apparently, it's seeing some play in legacy although it's in blue/white decks as opposed to black/white. Dunno. Sure it's nice to have an evasion creature that can hold a sword. My problem with Deadguy at the moment is that you don't put your opponent on much of a clock since the creatures available in black and white aren't that big (except for Stalker). Which is why I put in KOTR and considered putting in Tombstalker (even with Dark Confidant and Aether Vial). Wishing they would make a good specter again but not likely to happen. None of the specters I've seen of late are even Standard Viable. LOL, if only Shimian Specter were one mana less. But that would be insane.
Teeg and Maze huh? Might put a Teeg in the board, although I've been finding Ethersworn Canonist to be better against Storm and is easier to cast if I have to. I'd like to fit in Maze but I don't find mazing one creature to be an issue. It's either creatureless decks for the most part or a huge swarm of them.
For every time it's done something cool like that, it's been stuck in my hand or lost early because of lack of graveyard. If I wanted an unreliable creature I couldn't cast in the first few turns, I'd just play Serra Avenger. At least it has Avenger has flying and vigilance.
why play squadron hawk without brainstorm? running hawk means you have to have someway to abuse him. A. you are a tempo deck with daze etc. or B. you are extremely equipment reliant
Thanks for answers sdematt. Makes me wanna use my playset of foil Revokers to build this deck. It has versiatlity and even if you have nothing to name it can come in as a beater when it carries a Sword or a jitte. Something to ponder on.
I am currently working on a Vial list, I am trying to find the right combination of creatures to put in as well, but I will test it out without the vials as well to see how it goes.
I think Juton Grunt is good but only as a 2-of since you do not want him to be a dead card in your hand if you have no Graveyard.Quite strong against opposing gofy's and reliquary.
On squadron Hawk, I think it is worth testing out but is much better in a build running Jace TMS and Brainstorm to hide the other Squadron Hawks for more extra draw. It has even greater benefit when you play with equips, makes them a better threat.
If I were to use Stillmoon, he would essentially take Serra Avenger's spot (which gets worse without Vials.) Here is just a sample list of what I would probably bring for Deadguy if I went to a tourney:
4x Bob
4x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Tidehollow Sculler
2x Stillmoon Cavalier
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Thoughtseize
2x Inquistion of Kozilek
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
3x Hymn to Tourach/Gerard's Verdict
3x Wasteland
4x Marsh Flats
4x Scrubland
Swamps/Plains to fill out the lands
I know, no Moms. Possibly sideboard tech...but with 4x Revoker maindeck, Mom seems to be a little less important.
I would prefer Gerard's Verdict, because you've get every time both at the beginning. But it could just be for me. Either dual lands, fetchies or both land types.Quote:
3x Hymn to Tourach/Gerard's Verdict
In the other hand with hymn. These are random cards are not given in gerards.
hmm while im writing i think hymn is much better, because you've get a Jitte and SoLaS + Nighthawk
You dont need more life.
Just in my opinion :)
What cards can we run effectively in our sideboards?? what cards against what matchups??
my current 15
3x Extirpate - combo/catch-all
3x Ethersworn Canonist - combo
3x Path to Exile - zoo/aggro
4x Engineered Plague - tribal/ zoo if i see a lot of cats (steppe lynx, wild nacatl, loam lion...etc)
2x Perish (zoo/progenitus)
I'm also a huge fan of the "free" traps (mindbreak and ravenous).
I don't have any revokers, but it would seem they would be worth testing.
Just curious what everyone plays to even matchups
If you don't have Revokers, Pithing Needles are solid subs. Revokers are pretty intense though...they do exactly what Deadguy wants: mess up opposing tempo while being able to beat for 2 and hold equipment.
Quoted for truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Right now I basically hope to see Perish out of my board whenever I face a similar build with green creatures - it's the only possible way for me to win typically - their late game top-decks are just so much better.
Also Quoted for truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpT
I can't deal with having creatures in hand that i can't cast - it drives me up the wall. The problem I have with Avenger and Grunt is that by the time you can cast them your opponent has had time to develop his board and go find removal for them.
Currently I run something like thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Spacemagic
4x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Engineered Plague
3x Perish
2x Disenchant
1x Diabolic Edict
2x Phyrexian Revoker
The disenchants are iffy these days, I originally had them in there for counter-top matchups and for opponents dumb enough to run out their combo pieces before they were going to go off. I'm not even sure I need the disenchants anymore with the revokers now...I need to do more sideboard work honestly. I'm still debating more hate against Cheating creatures into play (reanimator, SneakShow, 12 Post, etc.). The canonist is for combo matchups - which there are plenty. EPlague is good against Gobo's and Fish. Perish is good against Team America, Death and Taxes, etc - it's absolutely required in pretty much any green matchup because their creatures outclass ours so easily.
Is grunt food really that hard to come by with all the discard? t1 TS t2 hymn = 5 cards by turn 3 not even counting fetches or your opponent playing anything
That's not even two turns. Look:Quote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
T1: Thoughtseize
YG: TS
HG: TS Target
T2: Hymn
YG: TS, Hymn - 2
HG: TS Target, Hymn Cards - 3
T3: Grunt
T4: Upkeep - Your GY
T5: Upkeep - Sure hope he played something that went to the GY because there aren't enough cards in his GY to pay for upkeep.
Are you willing to bet that your opponent has fetched? Your fetches only count if you've fetched twice. What if you're playing against Affinity? What if you're playing against Elves? What if you're playing against Merfolk? In your scenario you get one attack with grunt and then he's iffy. And let's say you get two. Are you really locked on getting a third? 6 more cards need to go to the GY in even numbers to get one more attack. That's pretty much the definition of unreliable. I want a creature that I get more than 2 attacks with when I play it.
I also think he gives a false sense of security for GY hate. He is not GY hate. Not even close. For decks you need GY hate for (I'm not sure, did a few Top 8 at the last SCG?) he is not useful. Dredge blows past him. Reanimate Entombs at end of turn. Breakfast blows past him.
Seriously, Grunt is garbage. If you want a beater, play Goyf. He gets better with discard and doesn't die after two swings.
I'm having a hard time finding creatures that are white that are really worth playing. I don't know how long it will be before I replace Vindicate with Maelstrom Pulse and just go Green/Black. I'd loose some versatility in land destruction with pulse over vindicate, and the loss of swords would be difficult, but not impossible to overcome (black does have plenty of good removal options after all). The only other thing I'd really loose is SFM, but honestly, if we just run good creatures we don't need stoneforge mystic at all - all of a sudden my 6-card mystic package becomes 4 goyfs and 2 jittes, which just seems infinately better and faster.
Plus I'd gain K-Grip in the board, which seems pretty significant in the current meta. And I can run Deed too...which...well, we all know deed is good.
I'm not there yet, but I feel like white is quickly fading away here - it was never the strongest part of the deck to begin with...this deck was, after all, just an "improved" version of the MBC deck that ran discard and land-destruction. I think as more of us keep looking for valid finishers (whether it's tombstalker or persecutor or whatever else), and thinking about dark ritual, white will continue to fade - because as the deck is built right now (the B/w, not the B/w/g) SFM is the finisher...so we're basically looking to replace the White finisher, leaving me wondering why we need white at all. I think that generally we'll find that cheap white creatures are designed to take advantage of tempo, rather than provide a good end-game clock, I think that the design approach for white is generally hampering this deck design and counter to what it's currently trying to achieve - play disruption, overcome your opponent with card advantage and finish...currently we can't finish, becuase white isn't designed to "just finish" with small mana dudes, so we're left looking for black creatures to finish..which begs the question...why do we need white again?
Just my $0.02
Playing three colors is not out of the question at all. IMO, Swords and SFM are worth being into White. The rest of the White spells are just gravy: Vindicate, Sculler, etc...
It's only not out of the question because wasteland recursion is not currently a large part of the meta - but that could easilly change because of decks like 12-post.
I do agree though, SFM, Swords and Vindicate are extremely powerful cards - but do you really need 'Goyf AND SFM, or Vindicate AND pulse? I don't think so, but again...I'm still playing white.
You're acting like you have to cast grunt on the 3rd turn. In the above scenario you still have at least 5 cards in hand that all have a 3 or less casting cost that you can cast instead . I was just saying that this deck (as opposed to d&t) puts a lot of cards in the graveyard in the first few turns.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpT
Yes grunt has a shelf-life. That is understood. For the investment tombstalker is clearly better power-wise. However, you have to look at it for everything it does. It's not reanimator or dredge hate. It is permanents-that-rely-on-the-graveyard hate. It's shrink-rock's creatures to 0/1 and 2/2 hate. Recurring wasteland hate. Also with a sword it swings for 6. And it only costs 2 life from bob. Oh and it'll send your discard back to your library and with 8 md shuffle effects that's pretty good.
Against elves you can take it out in favor of perish and plague.
I would just rather play a reliable creature like Goyf every single time. The downside of having a third color is more than made up for in the reliability of Goyf and the additional Green cards you pick up. I don't want creatures I can't cast on turn 3 and have a shelf life. I want good creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
for me Grunt played out very well as a 2-Off, but my meta is heavy with *****, so he has enough food to stay long enough. He eventually kills the opponent not, but he cripples him enough to loose
Edit: Stars are T.h.r.e.s.h O.o
Thought my english was decent, why the heck got that censored?
Personally, with my luck, if I put situationally good cards in my deck I will only see the situation where they are bad - for whatever that's worth. I dunno, there are just too many match-ups where this guy is simply dead.
I look at it this way - we are all looking for a creature that can agressively end the game for us when he hits the table (aka a finisher). Having a creature that cannot be played immediately means that you may not be able to finish quickly...or maybe at all - or essentially it gives your opponents more time to have the exact top-deck they need, or do that last few points of damage to you that you simply cannot recover from. Fast opponents are when we need a cheap & big body, and we need them to come down fast - waiting for graves to fill up isn't going to get there. For instance, I keep hearing people say that he's good against Zoo because he avoids bolt and is bigger than many of their creatures....but you'll be dead by the time he can actually stick around because of his own limitations!
Time is a pretty precious commodity here. Bottom line, I don't see this guy as a finisher because when I tested him he couldn't come down when I needed him to, he's more utility or a sideboard card...and that isn't a guy that's worth the finisher spot. There may be a way to make this guy a gold-mine, but I haven't seen it yet.
You're english wasn't great, but I wasn't going to say anything since it's obviously not your native tounge...lol (and there are very few with perfect command over english anyway). As far as the sensor - maybe a mod disliked that particular deck enough to put it on the sensor list, how funny would that be? It may have something to do with the fact that it's also a video game unrelated to magic, but it seems unlikely. I dunno, funny stuff though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
has anyone ever tried ghost council of orzhova as a finisher?? not saying it would be good, just curious. its a 4/4 with an annoying ability, and a nice interaction with karakas...
Whats about Phyrexian Crusader? I know, we are not playing infect but with any equipment he becomes a 3 turn clock. Maybe add inkmoth nexus for more infect
Looks like we're gonna be getting a R/W sword in New Phyrexia.
The rumored name I've been seeing for it is Sword of War and Peace.
Seems pretty exciting. The protections are good, hopefully the abilities are too.
Your command of English isn't great either. It's CENSOR, not sensor.Quote:
Originally Posted by bokwinkle
Quote:
Originally Posted by bokwinkle
Your command of English isn't great either. It's CENSOR, not sensor. A German guy spells better than you do, and you bash him for not having good English? I find that incredibly ironic.
Edit: some other spelling and gramatical corrections are in order-
1) Tounge-> Tongue
2) Perfect command over English-> Perfect command of English
If you really don't like Grunt, is Knight of Meadowgrain not a good supplement? 2/2 not the biggest, but the first strike at least makes it fearsome. It was awesome in standard back when, and if you put a Jitte on it, or even a SoFI or SoLS. It could be a decent creature for the deck.
Not that I would personally run it, but if you're opting for Knight of Meadowgrain, Student of Warfare might be a better selection. Granted you lose lifelink, but you get an extra 1/1 for the same mana and since it's leveler you don't absolutely need the WW to cast it, and you can always level it to for the Double Strike later in the game (y'know, with all that white mana you aren't using :P).
Forlorn Egoist
Hey guys,
this is inconsequential, IMO.
I think it would be better to discuss about the deck and not grammatic or something else. Im german, so i hope you can understand my english :)
Firstable,
Im currently running Mr. Safety's decklist and there are 4 Phyrexian Revoker in...so what would you prefer to take in? Im thinking about 2x Tariff in sideboard.Quote:
Currently I run something like this
4x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Engineered Plague
3x Perish
2x Disenchant
1x Diabolic Edict
2x Phyrexian Revoker
Secondly,
i dont like to play a 3 color deck like this with green. For me, it isnt deadguy with green in. It's more like zoo. And if you want to play green instead of white it takes a nice removal like StP and if you're playing it : Vindicate.
Sure, on the other hand, you've got K-grip, but you can also play disenchant.
I have to disagree with you about Grunt. While I don't usually use him when I play deadguy, I routinely use him in another (homebrew) w/x midrange/tempo deck and he is always amazing. I do think that most people don't take the right approach to playing him, though. I see a lot of lists with Grunt as a 2-of where he's not doing what the list wants. I think that in order to take full advantage of Grunt, 4 is the correct number.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpT
You don't want to be waiting for stocked GYs to play grunt, you want to play him as early as possible. Your scenario from a few posts up is a perfect time to be playing grunt if you're facing down goyfs or KotRs (or even nactyls and kird apes), because it puts your opponent in an awkward position. They can use removal on a creature that is going to die in 2-3 turns by itself anyway, or they can try to wait it out. I find that many opponents will try to wait it out, which gives you the run of the board (and a chance to do some damage) for several very crucial turns early on. If your hand has anything else going for it, which it should if you didn't mulligan, it's easy to parlay this time into a huge advantage. It's even better if you have two that you can play back to back this way. The fact that he doesn't suck as a topdeck later in the game is just gravy. 1 grunt may not seem like much, but playing 2 or even 3 over the course of a game is very powerful.
I do agree that Grunt is bad against some decks, especially affinity, and that it is not the powerful finisher deadguy seems to be looking for.
EDIT: grammar fix
How often will you really be dropping 7 mana into a student of warfare? It seems to be a long shot to drop that many into it without it hitting some sort of removal. I think at that point you might as well play Mirran Crusader :P (Full loop?)Quote:
Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist
Hey guys, so there was a discussion about this earlier in the thread, but it was WAY earlier in the thread (like before Eventide came out) so I thought I'd bring it up again:
Bitterblossom.
It has been discussed as an answer to aggro, but I think that ignores the true potential. The Stoneforge Mystic, 3 equipment configuration that has been showing up a lot seems correct. This is, at least partially, an equipment-based deck. An endless stream of 1/1 fliers seems like a great way to use Jitte/Swords. Just one successful attack can really swing the game. Especially if it's SoFI. God, that card's good.
It's an enchantment in a creature-heavy deck, so it kind of diversifies your threats. It's easy to cast, it comes down quickly, and it seriously alters the game. The 2cc slot is kind of perfect for it. Every game you drop a turn 2 must answer threat in either Bitterblossom or Bob? Sounds good.
As for the life loss...Vampire Nighthawk! All the lists have been running him anyway. He's awesome. I know it's foolish to think that 3 Nighthawk all of a sudden makes up for the life loss of 4 Bob and 3 Bitterblossom, but it certainly helps. That along with Jitte and SoLS should be fine. And if the deck leans over into suicide-type strategies a little bit, then so what? Look at it. In no situation was this going to be a control deck, anyway.
Did you really just reply to the same thread 4 times (and delete 2 of them) to attack grammar on a post that was obviously meant to be sarcastic, and even said "I realize english isn't your first language" and "Noone has perfect command of english"? I'll conceede that I'm not perfect with english (especially when posting to an internet forum), again. It was a joke...move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
I think both fall in the same category (for me at least) in that they are really aggro cards - both of those cards were good in standard when they were paired with several other similar cards. I just don't think we are there - we can't apply the constant pressure that aggro decks can (like zoo).Quote:
Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist
As to the board question - Tariff seems fine, hate for Emmy is a good plan these days. It would largely depend on your meta thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by K1w1
As to the adding of green - I don't think it's fair to classify the deck as zoo with the addition of green. Even with green it still keeps it's disruption spells (StP, Vindicate, Discard, etc) and it still runs bob. Basically, (and they can correct me if I'm wrong) I think people that are splashing for green are just looking for finishers - not necessarilly trying to change the deck to aggro.
As for the substitution of Green for White - I'm not going to spend a lot of time getting into the exact nuances of playing one over the other because I don't think this is the place for it. However, I will say that K-Grip and Disenchant are very different spells, and the un-counterable K-Grop is a pretty powerful tool for any deck.
You have an interesting perspective - admittedly I did not think of my opponent's responses to the creature, only the difficulty with playing it. It's a good point, but ultimately you're giving your oponent a choice - basically if they have the removal (this seems to be a pretty big if these days) and you run him out there they have a choice - kill him now (if they have to) or leave him there (if they don't have to). You're essentially letting them hold their removal for your next threat. Personally I'd rather them not have a choice, I'd like to them to just immediately realize - "ok, I have to deal with this or I die"Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindMage
The more tourny's I'm at (local or otherwise), the more I realize that people simply do not pack enough removal because it makes for too many dead cards against all of the combo that is currently saturating the field - this is even more relevant because of the ammount of targeting discard that so many of us run. So, as a result of this meta-game shift it seems counter-intuitive to run a creature that answer's himself.
It could get there, I won't deny that - it's a very powerful card that could definately find a home in this deck. Personally, I'm not going there. It's too slow for my taste. Also for people running Vial, it has poor interaction there as well. I feel like I already have one finisher that takes 3 turns to develop (Stoneforge Mystic) I don't really need another one. Plus I already run Bob, Thoughtseize, and a bunch of fetches - add bitterblossom to that and anything that can apply a clock would be aweful. I could replace thoughtseize with IoK I guess, and add some more focus on life gain...but generally I just don't think that get's there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derm
This is what I played yesterday:
4 Aether Vial
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Duress
2 Path to Exile
3 Engineered Plague
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
The deck performed very well. The downside to this list with 4x Knight and 4x Vindicate is that Bob definitely did more damage. This was somewhat mitigated by the fact that I could kill quicker and had more versatile removal, but it was still much more painful than was used to. I liked it, but it is something to consider.
4 Round tournament:
Round 1: UW Thopter Tempo
Thoughtseize, Hymn and Bob all get there very quickly. He just can't keep up with those. Game 2 wasn't really fair as I turn 1 Vial, turn 2 Hymn, turn 3 double Thoughtseize and vial in Bob. Total removal deal with: 3 Swords via Hymn and TS.
Round 2: Tez Affinity
Game 1 he wrecks me with 4 0 drops and a signal pest.
Game 2 - 4 I wreck him with Kataki 4 games in a row. We just kept playing as he's a good friend. Even with all of his Kataki hate, he still couldn't beat me.
Round 3: Weak Burn deck
Games 1 and 2, Jitte wrecks him. His deck wasn't very good though. If burn gets more popular, this could be a problematic deck. Plenty of good SB possibilities, but probably not worth the slots.
Round 4: PainterStone
Game 1: I kept a shaky hand and shouldn't have. He turn 3 kills me.
Games 2-3: Lots of discard and removal get there. Kataki was solid as well as it tied up his mana for long enough for me to disrupt him. Big fan of Kataki.
This was a sort of experiment. But I really liked it. It was very versatile but still very powerful. I will continue to experiment with variations on this but so far I have not found a good reason not to run Green. Rishadan Port is the only possible reason I can think of.
I read a bunch of posts, and somewhere Bokwinkle was saying that the reasons for playing white are getting slim. I agree with that...unless you play with the sliver mentality (each creature played makes the other ones on the table better)
Example: How good would Jotun Grunt be with Flickerwhisp? Definately better, and a 3/1 flyer for 3 mana isn't anything to sneeze at. I think this is probably the better choice than Squadron Hawk. If he only had flash, he'd be epic. Without flash, he's simply good. I like him for re-setting Grunt, and there may be other applications as well, especially if there are some EtB-effect white/black creatures. I would say re-setting Sculler seems risky, but it's possible to get another look at your opponent's hand. Again, flash would make the guy (Flickerwhisp) insane.
Deathbringer Liege is a little pricey, but does what you want by boosting your dudes and providing good abilities. Dark Ritz makes him possible, but that 5 mana cost is just gruesome, lol...
Baneslayer Angel is a great threat, again the only drawback the mana cost. For that matter, Exalted Angel is pretty decent, and Guardian Seraph seems to have a decent ability for the cost (4 mana)
I think the key is flying (well, evasion) along with a good efficiency of cost/power. That's why I like Flickerwhisp, and to a smaller extent Exalted Angel and Guardian Seraph.
I like creatures with built in grow-effects, too...which makes me think 'why has Cenn's Tactician never had much love? Spare white mana essentially turns into 'W, tap this creature, put a +1/+1 counter on it'? I think it's similar to a Figure of Destiny type of creature, or any other level up creature (like Student of Warfare). The good part: unlike FoD, you don't need WWW or WWWWWW to make him useful. The bad part: same inherint risks, as in pay mana and POW, in comes removal. I like the idea of Tactician in Deadguy because of all the targeted discard/mana denial.
Seriously? No offense, but those are some terrible ideas. Flickerwisp is ok, buy you realize Bob is in the list, right? Start running 5 CMC and you can kiss Bob goodbye.
White has:
Swords
Vindicate
Stoneforge Mystic
Tidehollow Sculler
Sideboard:
Path to Exile
Ethersworn Canonist
Kataki
Gaddock Teeg
I can't imagine cutting White.
I've been debating how long I should hold off on saying more about cutting white - or if I should ever talk about it again since this is a thread about a black/white deck with Bob - but it seems that I can't avoid it.
My primary problem with white is that it offers very little that black doesn't already provide, or couldn't be easilly replaced by simply better green spells.
For example, while StP is a fantastic piece of removal (arguably the best in the game) in most cases it is functionally similar to Go for the Throat, or some other piece of targeting removal available in black...in some cases, even Innocent Blood or Deathmark are sufficient, or even superior.
The other example is stoneforge mystic - a good finisher, downright fantastic really. But he's very slow. He's better in a deck that's trying to dodge countermagic - but I feel like our discard is already getting us there against control of that sort. He's also better in a deck that is already applying a clock without him...something we don't do well. Generally I feel that 'Goyf, tombstalker or Abyssal Persecutor are just better finishers than SfM.
Vindicate is obviously a pretty key card in the deck, but if Maelstrom Pulse was used instead we could see significant advantages against decks that vomit their hands (aggro). Obviously we loose the land destruction ability, but it's not the end of the world in 95% of the matchups, especially when you consider that most of us don't run sinkhole anymore anyway...land destruction just isn't what it used to be in legacy...especially 3cmc land destruction.
Sculler is just another discard spell, if we weren't so dependant on SfM and equipment then the need to have bears to equip wouldn't be as pressing. Frankly there are plenty of games where he is more of a liability than an IoK or Duress would be, and he's so quickly outclassed as an attacker that his upside can dissapear fast in the games you need him most.
In the side, I feel that Green is generally just as deep as white, if not deeper
We gain Pernicious Deed and Krosan Grip against affinity, and k-Grip also fills a much needed void against SneakShow, decks that run LED, and Painter/Grindstone....and deed is pretty good against some of those decks too in addition to being very good against aggro. I think that Kataki is one of those cards that seems like a beating, but all it does is buy time while leaving everything that is needed to kill you on the board - personally I'd rather just get rid of stuff that is going to kill me.
Path to exile is good removal (especially in legacy with the lack of basics in many decks) but black is very deep in removal spells, so I don't think loosing PtE is that big a deal - especially considering so few people run it in their board anyway.
Cannonist and Teeg are solid white answers to a variety of decks - they are generally unique in nature and are hard to develop direct replacements for, but neither is absolutely required for ANY matchup. Typically, if you have a matchup that you are worried about there should be something in black or green for it.
Again, I'm not saying that everyone should trade their scrublands for Bayou's now. I'm just saying that I'm having significant issues with trying to develop the deck into what I think is it's next level utilizing white. Everytime I feel like I find a white gem that will make the deck hum I am dissapointed. I keep looking at my 3-equipment/3-SfM and saying to myself:
"Why isn't this 4 'Goyf and 2 Jitte again?"
Because I feel that white is so easilly replacable with green and/or black cards it often comes down to the choice of 'Goyf vs SfM - and honestly IMHO it's not even a contest.
I don't want anyone to feel the need to justify going white - I know it's good, I've been playing it (with decent success). But I'm having clock issues that I'm actively trying to solve...and I'm having very little success because of the limited types of threats in white. I feel this is the single issue that is making my tourney showings 3-1's and 4-3's instead of 4-0's and 6-1's. It's not that the deck is bad by any stretch of the immagination, it just needs a little adjustment to push it from a good deck to a great deck - and I'm having trouble finding that adjustment within white.
All of that being said, there is a high probability that I'll never reach that next level of play with this deck regardless of color because of the caliber of opponents that i'm facing, and my generally poor play...this is one of the primary reasons that I've been trying to avoid persuading people to go from white to green.
I still don't see how this is a debate between white and green. Run both. It's really not hard at all. You get the power of Swords and the power of Goyf.